James Clapper Still Trying To Distance Intelligence Community From The Bogus 'Foiled Plots' Metric He Came Up With

Say That Again

from the but-of-course dept

Thu, Jan 30th 2014 9:58am — Mike Masnick

In the Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on Wednesday, where James Clapper effectively accused journalists who reported on the Snowden documents of being criminals, he also tried to distance himself from the fact that the NSA's surveillance activities have been basically useless. During the hearing, he attempted to claim that looking at "foiled plots" is the "wrong metric."

Clapper answered by saying "it's an important tool," but he also added that "simply using the metric of plots foiled is not necessarily a way to get at the value of the program."

This is not the first time he's tried this. Last year, he started claiming that "peace of mind" was the better metric. Of course, that resulted in people pointing out that it would provide a lot more "peace of mind" if the NSA weren't collecting all of our information all the time.

But there's another issue here, which is that the only reason why Clapper has to now try to distance himself from is because he and Keith Alexander made it the metric by trotting out the whole bogus 54 "terrorist events foiled" line to defend the program -- only to see that number fall apart under scrutiny to the point that it showed the bulk metadata collection had basically stopped no US terrorist plots at all.

So, sure, Clapper wants to get away from that number now. But, perhaps he should have not brought it up in the first place in trying to defend the program...

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Filed Under: foiled plots, james clapper, metrics, nsa, surveillance

22 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:11am

I know which program "values" the alleged felonious liar is referring to. He's talking about the political blackmail, industrial espionage, and bulk unconstitutional spying on US and foreign citizens, part of the program.

When measuring those three metrics. The bulk unconstitutional spy program is invaluable to those who are abusing it.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:12am

Why isn't Clapper in Jail yet? Seriously, WHY isn't he in jail for perjury yet?
This is why Clapper and others keep on wanting all the documents that Snowden took returned. They are unable to construct their narrative of lies without knowing which lies they can tell. Every time they are caught in a lie, we get one step closer to taking back our 4th amendment rights.

American only wins, when these people are in jail, and this spying program is stopped.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:16am

Re: Why isn't Clapper in Jail yet? Seriously, WHY isn't he in jail for perjury yet?
That is simple. Because the USAG likes the surveillance programs so he isn't going to go after anyone defending them even if they commit more crimes in the process. Instead he's going continue to blame Snowden and claim that he is the one that really needs to be prosecuted despite the fact that pretty much everyone else knows otherwise.
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David, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:19am

So whatcha wanna do?
Will you lock up the lying equivocating bastard who hates and despises every freedom that the U.S.A. stands for before he completes his work of establishing an Orwellian surveillance state and obliterating the U.S. constitution?

Or will you surrender and let him finish what Osama bin Laden has started, striking the fear of terror into your hearts and giving up the freedoms and the way of life that your forefathers chose to rather die for?
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Lurker Keith, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:36am

Cake
Looks like someone is trying to have his cake & eat it, too, only he forgot the Cake is a Lie of his own creation.
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Dirkmaster (profile), 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:37am

Re: So whatcha wanna do?
This
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Dirkmaster (profile), 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:37am

Re: So whatcha wanna do?
This
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alan turing, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:37am

Re: So whatcha wanna do?
That ship has sailed, we gave up.
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FM Hilton, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:39am

Grasping at straws
"Would you believe, Chief...?"

The same line was used in an old TV show-that was "Get Smart", and the Chief was smarter than Clapper is. Of course he didn't have to pretend that he was, though.

Besides the plot premise was based on spies, there's no comparison.

Our NSA makes that fictional outfit (CONTROL) look brilliant by sheer brainwave power.

According to this page,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Smart

"CONTROL has a policy of burning pertinent documents after cases are closed; the reasons were detailed in their Rules and Regulations book, but nobody can read them, since they burned the only copy."

Sounds like the NSA should have watched this show for valuable information. Otherwise they'd not be in this situation of defending their theft of our data.

They'd have gotten rid of it long before this, and Snowden would not have had anything to work with.

But you know how bureaucracy works: forms in triplicate, neatly typed, please!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:42am

He's trying to say "we get some much good info by spying on both foreign and American corporations, and also politicians, judges and other people of interest like that", but he knows he can't actually say that in public.

He has to maintain the message of "we do it for the terrorists", even as there are reports after reports that say the spying has been useless against that.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 10:55am

Re: Re: So whatcha wanna do?
Not necessarily, but it would probably have to wait until a new administration happens where hopefully a new president puts in a new USAG that will actually do his job.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 11:14am

The only plot he wants to foil is the one to restore the 4th amendment.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 11:23am

Clapper has totally destroyed his creditability. Why the man is still given air time is beyond me. Only thing I can come up with on that is they are hoping to catch him in more silliness.

What Clapper wants is no longer of interest to me. What I want is. I want Clapper out of that office and in jail. I want him in jail for the crimes of lying to congress knowingly and intentionally, and subverting the guarantees of the Constitution, which is basically part of what he is pushing here.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 11:30am

Re:
I look at it this way. As long as he isn't in jail he might as well be given air time. Every time he opens his mouth he makes their situation worse and worse with more and more people realizing what utter liars they are. So I say, if they aren't going to arrest him, keep sending him up.
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John Fenderson (profile), 30 Jan 2014 @ 11:36am

Re: Re: Re: So whatcha wanna do?
If that's the basket we're putting all our eggs in, then we've effectively given up. (Fortunately, it's not and we haven't!)
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David, 30 Jan 2014 @ 12:03pm

You wish...
Quoting Groucho Marx: "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

Most of the American public will be happy to take his meandering word over that of traitors like Snowden who would mercilessly expose them to truth rather than promise them security.

So no: there is nothing to be gained by letting his lying to congress and the public continue: either will lap it up in humility and gratitude.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Re: So whatcha wanna do?
Yeah, maybe we can get a president that's a Constitutional scholar, who's outspoken about how he's going to scale back the surveillance state.
That'll fix everything.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: So whatcha wanna do?
Yeah. Yeah. I know. But maybe we can find one that actually where his record on things indicates that he means what he's saying.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 1:16pm

Re: So whatcha wanna do?
I agree with you. Terrorism sucks. That point is undisputable. But the terrorists win when we show fear and throw away our civil liberties to protect ourselves.
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krolork (profile), 30 Jan 2014 @ 2:14pm

We need a revolution.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2014 @ 6:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: So whatcha wanna do?
Someone who's deeds are going to be so great that he wins a nobel peace prize before he has even done anything.
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Pragmatic, 31 Jan 2014 @ 1:46am

Re: You wish...
Snowden is no more a traitor than Ellsberg is.
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