UPS Insists That It Is Not Helping The NSA 'Interdict' Packages To Install Backdoors
from the not-us! dept
After Glenn Greenwald's book came out last week, one of the big stories was the additional revelations about the NSA's interdiction program -- in which the NSA grabs packages of computer equipment that are being shipped, outfits the equipment with backdoors -- and sends them along their shipping route as if nothing happened. Most famously, it included an image of it happening, showing a clear Cisco box:Keys also reached out to other popular shipping options, including the US Postal Service, FedEx and DHL. USPS says that they don't participate in any such NSA program (though, some may question the validity of that statement). FedEx and DHL appear to have simply ignored repeated requests for comment from Keys.UPS, which Cisco has used since 1997 to ship hardware to customers around the world, said on Thursday that it did not voluntarily allow government officials to inspect its packages unless it is required to do so by law.
“UPS’ long-standing policy is to require a legal court-ordered process, such as a subpoena, before responding to any third-party requests,” UPS spokeswoman Kara Ross wrote in an e-mail to TheBlot Magazine. “UPS is not aware of any court orders from the NSA seeking to inspect technology-related shipments.”
In a follow-up e-mail, Ross said UPS had no knowledge of similar orders from the FBI, CIA or any other federal agency.
Of course, it's not impossible that there are other methods being used to get the equipment -- or that the folks who handle these "special" projects are kept way far away from any official spokesperson. Clearly, however, the NSA can get these packages, and now the doubt is going to spread across pretty much everyone in the logistics chain, no matter what they say.
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Filed Under: glenn greenwald, interdiction, nsa, surveillance, tao
Companies: cisco, ups
Reader Comments
The First Word
“NSLs?
The NSA would be more likely to use NSLs than court orders, wouldn't they? And UPS would not be allowed to confirm that fact.
Whether or not UPS is involved in the situation, this brings up an excellent point about NSLs: that they exist mean that no denial any company issues actually means a thing.
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NSLs?
The NSA would be more likely to use NSLs than court orders, wouldn't they? And UPS would not be allowed to confirm that fact.
Whether or not UPS is involved in the situation, this brings up an excellent point about NSLs: that they exist mean that no denial any company issues actually means a thing.
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Re: NSLs?
I've been involved in international shipping of custom electronics, and had US agency who wasn't US Customs fully disassemble the equipment and then contact my company asking for a full description of what the electronics were supposed to do (beyond what was in the export papers) -- so I know this sort of thing is done at least to some degree.
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Re: Re: NSLs?
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Re: Re: Re: NSLs?
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Re: Re: Re: NSLs?
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Re: NSLs?
They would be in breach of NSLs if they admitted they'd received them. They'd open themselves up to civil suits if they said they'd never received any when they had.
They may not be able to admit to receiving NSLs, but they couldn't lie and say they have NOT received any NSLs.
They would be between a rock and a hard place. About the only answer they could provide that would protect them in all cases would be "no comment".
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Re: NSLs?
Voluntarily being the key word.
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http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140124/10564825981/nsa-interception-action-tor-developers-com puter-gets-mysteriously-re-routed-to-virginia.shtml
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Re: It may just be me...
Also it was delivered UPS now that I think about it.
So, yeah, it looks as if UPS is an NSA mole.
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Re:
While it's certainly possible, I think it's far from "pretty clear".
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That strikes me as language games. Their 'policy' is to require it, but they don't say if they followed that policy. They could have been much more direct.
Then they go on to say they have no received a court order, but it suffers the same issue with statements like 'From the NSA', 'inspect', 'technology-related'.
It very well could be nothing, but that broad language leaves me suspicious.
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Re:
There's your UPS policy.
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Bingo
There it is.
I AM RE DIRECTING THESE PACKAGES UNDER [silent] PROTEST!
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Re: Bingo
The only time they could voluntarily grant access to a package is when there isn't a warrant. And they never really address that situation explicitly.
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Re: Bingo
US v Patty (E.D. Mich. 2001)
(Citations omitted.)
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Voluntary vs. Involuntary
This statement is followed by how UPS handles inspection demands that are voluntary. So what happens with packages
where the demand is forced under an NDA?
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Re: Voluntary vs. Involuntary
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Agents?
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Re: Agents?
Cooley v State (Alaska Ct. App. 2009)
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This will continue to spread until the US has nothing the world wants to purchase for fear of some method of spying, be that teddy bears, software, hardware, or regular products of any nature. It has done itself no favors in all this cover up. It hasn't even gained short term benefits given the distrust it has sowed in the process.
At some point the government will have to acknowledge it's war footing is over. So is the endless money being spent on it. This business of trillions of dollars in debt will have to be addressed and sooner rather than later is called for. Our politicians and the government have spent us into the poor house and with their aid have buried the economy under debt.
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At the current point of time, any corporation with critical security needs is better off buying their equipment in the PRC or Korea.
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How do they deal with 2nd hand equipment?
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Pretty much along those lines I'd bet.
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NSA doesn't "[seek] to 'inspect';" NSA seeks to tamper/implant.
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translation: we do allow the government to do it, because a NSL or document from the FISA court is a valid legal order. however, other than those instances no subpena have ever been served to us.
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Re:
People v Bui (Ill. App. Ct., 2008)
People v Tyus (Ill. App. Ct., 2011)
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it could be
There are a few agendas at work here.
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Re: it could be
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Re: Re: it could be
Are you suggesting that you as an anonymous poster have hacked Techdirt so that you can see posting IPs? I would actually be interested to know what the site registers as my IP - and why you would have access to it.
BTW: it should come out as Canada. But then again, who knows with the internet, right?
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Re: Re: Re: it could be
You know that according to RIAA law using TOR and a VPN makes you a pirate?
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Re: it could be
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Notice, that not only NSA allowed to take pics of faces, they gladly use it in own top secret presentations. Clearly, Alexander and Clapper had no Plan B on their mind. Would you hire them as security guards of your parking lot?
BTW:
1. This is closed area of shipping warehouse, likely UPS's air facility. See pallet lifter handle on left. See stuff at ceiling.
2. Very short and very bold guy is easy to recognize by neighbors.
3. Cisco is whoring itself to NSA via hardware backdoors. What is on Glenn's pic is TAO. Means something designed for the very victim. Say Saudi embassy.
4. They using hair dryer to separate tape. Must have original UPS's on hand to replace. Easy to get from an insider (or manager on duty).
5. Is that woman pregnant, or just overdosed on McDonald's on recent lunch?
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Re:
An excellent point. In fact, why are any photos allowed in the area at all? That seems like an obvious Bad Idea.
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Whose keeping count in the American Holocaust? Certainly not the American Holocaust Perpetraitors (Nicolaitans Revelation 2:15).
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/03/push-for-new-national-cemeteries-as-veteran-deaths- bring-sites-near-capacity/
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/report-iran-billionaire-exec uted-26b-fraud-23852946
In order to save money decision makers medical, administratively and judicially are being coerced through Terrorism-Coercion, Collusion, Corruption, Subversion, Subterfuge, and Sabotage(cointelpro tactics). These are premeditated and orchestrated treasonous methods used by Congress and SCOTUS to reduce the cost and population. The plan continues to be lie, delay and deny until you die (death fix it / deficit). The result a holocaust the total destruction of entire American families (suicides and executions). Goin Postal was described as a myth. The result of Terminal Injustice (Collusion / Terrorism by those entrusted with enforcement of rules, regulations and laws of the US Constitution refusing to do so for personal gain) continues to be Ambush Attacks / Murder by proxy ie. Joseph Harris (US Postal Employee), John Allen Muhammad (US Army 17 years), Major Nidal Malik Hassan (US Army Psychiatrist), Christopher Dorner (LAPD police officer and United States Navy Reserve office), etc.
Recognize the catalyst. Recognize economic oppression, the outrageous extreme physical, mental, financial and emotional stress. Its premediated and orchestrated for population control / death fix it (American Holocaust).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3bNWtXhH8o
http://usat.ly/KGQbCk
http://www.fastnote.com/ra chel-maddow
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24093243/Alert-the-Hazard
http://www.fastnote.com/bill-maher
http ://www.rep-am.com/articles/2013/07/03/news/local/734902.txt
http://www.scribd.com/doc/48662078/Will-H omeland-Security-Only-Terrorize-Non-Catholics
http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/vets-split-over-need -for-paid-attorneys-in-va-claims/article_318d15c0-419f-5208-aa7c-2b5a655fe145.html?mode=jqm
YHVH solution for American Holocaust Perpetraitors is Mongoose Protocol.
I AM YHVH DEITY THE FARTHER CIPHER 888
YHVH suspends mercy in response to god (government of deceivers) suspension of inalienable rights ( life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) in the American Holocaust (Moral corruption, suspension of Habeas Corpus to avoid liabilities - Fraud - Terminal Injustice - Economic oppression - Murderbyproxy - Population Control - death fix it>deficit
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Which is why American services and technologies can no longer be trusted. US companies are forced to lie, by the US Federal Government, or face legal fines and lengthy prison sentences.
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Volunteer vs Conscript
Exactly what does Cisco and UPS meaning by not voluntarily doing it, do they mean they didn't approach the NSA and volunteer to do it but when the NSA paid them and told them to do it they did it but involuntarily.
Personally I am no longer ordering any electronics delivered out of the US, not that I believe they necessarily want to hack me but because they would give a crap about using those electronics to hack someone else in my name and then sticking me with the charges unless I can prove my innocence.
Why take that chance.
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Re: Volunteer vs Conscript
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Re: Re: Volunteer vs Conscript
More from U.S. v Souza (10th Cir. 2000). This part comes after Special Agent Rowden has removed the suspect package from UPS property, and then returned it to the UPS facility.
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NSA ruining American business?
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Re: NSA ruining American business?
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The key word....
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does UPS necessarily know?
If I (the NSA) find sympathetic employees at the loading dock of the UPS facility closest to CISCO, couldn't I issue National Security Letters to the individuals? Would UPS corporate bosses need to be informed?
I know people in my real life who would think it's really cool to be a deputy spy, who would love the legal chance to show off their ability to counterfeit, their ability to fool you.
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Re: does UPS necessarily know?
Does UPS corporate necessarily know that there are “package interdiction teams” routinely working inside UPS parcel sorting facilities?—yanking boxes off the conveyor belts?
Take People v Kaslowski (Mich. Ct. App. 2000):
The events related there occurred in 1994. Would UPS corporate know if someone had borrowed a UPS delivery van twenty years ago? As long as they brought it back in one piece?
So now consider the more recent case of Luckl v Commonwealth (Ky. Ct. App., 2012)
Do you think UPS corporate knows about practices that have been occurring over two decades?
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Re: Re: does UPS necessarily know?
How much more so would UPS be willing to assist/allow federal "interdiction" operations that pertained to the War on Terror?
The question now, is Why?
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However, I still think the really important aspect of this situation is as John Fenderson noted:
"Whether or not UPS is involved in the situation, this brings up an excellent point about NSLs: that they exist mean that no denial any company issues actually means a thing."
NSLs change the whole playing field completely.
That the federal government can now legally force a company to lie to the public means that the apparently honest companies and the obviously dishonest companies are now indistinguishable and that nobody should really accept what any company says in its own defense when it comes to assisting the federal government in clandestine operations.
It would appear that the NSA, CIA, FBI, HLS and the US Fed are hell-bent on utterly destroying any remaining trust between global citizens and all US companies, by every means at their disposal.
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Shocked!
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