Mike Rogers Says Google Is Unpatriotic For Not Wanting NSA To Spy On Its Users
from the because-mike-rogers-is-a-hypocrite dept
This past Wednesday, the CIA held its first ever Conference on National Security at Georgetown University. It included plenty of the usual talking heads spouting nonsense, but I wanted to focus in on one particular talking head spouting particularly ridiculous nonsense. It's our old friend, Rep. Mike Rogers, who is retiring from Congress to try to become an even bigger blowhard on talk radio (as if that's possible). Apparently, Rogers is using this conference to practice the classical blowhard strategy of making a variety of absolutely ridiculous claims that directly contradict each other.So, for example, he kicked it off by attacking Silicon Valley tech companies for fighting back against NSA surveillance, and for arguing (accurately) that the NSA's efforts have created a major business problem for them around the globe, as people outside the US no longer trust them. In Rogers' mind, that means these companies are putting "European profits above national security." This isn't even close to true, but that's what Rogers is claiming (at about 2 hours 10 minutes into the video, which is also embedded below):
While I'm on my soapbox, we should be really mad at Google and Facebook and Microsoft, because they're doing a very interesting, and I think, very dangerous thing. They've decided to come out and say "we oppose this new FISA bill, because it doesn't go far enough." And when you peel that onion back a bit and say "Why are you doing this? This is a good bill, it's safe, it's bi-partisan, it's rational. It meets all the requirements for 4th Amendment protections and privacy protection and allowing the system to work."This is wrong and ridiculous on so many levels, but let's just jump to the biggest one and then circle back later to the rest. Less than 15 minutes later (at about 2 hours 25 minutes into the video), Rogers was arguing how important the internet is to our economy, and how a cyberattack might destroy it. He's basically discussing his beloved CISPA and its "information sharing" components, which is really a backdoor way to "legalize" companies handing over all their data to the NSA without warrants.
And they say, "Well, we have to do this because we're trying to make sure we don't lose our European business." I don't know about the rest of you but that offends me from the words "European business." Think about what they're doing. They're willing to, in their mind, justify the importance of their next quarter's earnings in Europe versus the national security of the United States. Everybody on those boards should be embarrassed and their CEOs should be embarrassed and their stockholders should be embarrassed. That one quarter cannot be worth the national security of the United States for the next ten generations."
One sixth of our economy now, is through the internet! One sixth! So this notion that we're all going to say "well the government should do nothing and just completely keep away" -- and I'm not for regulation, by the way, that's not what I mean, but I mean in some way to... to help defend these private networks or allow them to defend themselves -- if we don't get it right, one-sixth of our economy is going to go away. Like that (*snaps*). If every time you turn it on, you lose money, how many times are you going to turn it on and use the internet for commerce? You're not!Right. Did you get that? If the NSA is violating all of your privacy, no big deal, and people will continue to use the internet and contributing to the economy -- and if it hurts the economy, well that's just the price we pay for national security. But, if those evil foreign governments violate your privacy, well, then all of you will stop using the internet and it will destroy our economy.
In short: if NSA hacking into Europeans eats into US companies' profits: that's patriotism. But if Europeans hack into US companies, then everyone will stop using the internet and it will destroy us all.
And then he goes even further:
If one financial institution -- we have one particular financial institution that clears somewhere about $7 trillion in global financial transactions every single day. Imagine if tomorrow that place gets in there, and through an attack of which we know does exist -- the potential does exist -- where the information is destroyed and manipulated. Now you don't know who owes what money. Some of that, they have lost transactions completely, forever. Imagine what that does to the economy? $7 trillion. Gone. Right? Gone! It's that serious!So, profits of Wall Street banks are patriotic. But profits of Silicon Valley companies... well, they can be sacrificed for national security.
Except, of course, the underlying assumption in all of this -- which has been proven time and time again to be false, is that these efforts actually help with national security. Mike Rogers was one of the leading FUDspreaders, concerning the claim that the section 215 bulk phone records collection helped national security. Except that's been proven to be false time and time again. Both judges and the President's own task force have marvelled at the total lack of evidence that the bulk records provision was necessary.
The complaints from various tech companies (who Rogers himself admits makes up a huge part of our economy) is not about their "next quarter" of European profits, but about the very idea that he and his friends have more or less convinced the rest of the world that American internet companies are not trustworthy. That's not about next quarter's profits, it's about violating the privacy of everyone around the globe -- for no actual benefit.
So, in the end, we see what hypocritical views Rogers has. It's shameful and unpatriotic for Silicon Valley to be concerned about the privacy rights of their users, because that might lead to an attack on national security, and that attack on national security might harm the profits of Silicon Valley and (more importantly) Wall Street, and any attack on profits is unpatriotic (except, apparently, the profits he wanted them to give up first). Confused? Don't be. What Rogers is really saying is he doesn't give a shit, so long as the NSA gets to violate everyone's privacy, and he'll make any ridiculous argument to keep that happening. And, of course, to keep it secret, because if you don't know about it, he still thinks your privacy hasn't been violated.
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Filed Under: 4th amendment, cia, cia conference, fisa, fud, mike rogers, national security, nsa, patriotism, privacy, section 215, usa freedom act
Companies: facebook, google, microsoft
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1/6th of the Economy
I'm pretty sure 1/6th of the US Economy can take good care of itself with the "good intentions" of our government.
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Major corporations are finding out, if they don't fix and take care of their vulnerabilities and repair the damage they have done to customer trust, that the NSA may become their biggest payday; hardly worth the effort when viewed globally.
Blowhard Rogers is getting out because the kitchen has become too hot. That's a good thing. I wonder how long he keeps his radio spot? He ain't no Limbaugh.
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Glad your leaving
I dont usually rant on our societies older folks as most have a lot to contribute and of course I will be one soon, but where in the world do the Rogers and Feinsteins come from when they think they have any clue what the population needs? They have no relevance to todays world. Dinosaurs, the lot of them.
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Rep Mike Rodgers as a Sith Lord
Darth Rogers: Don't act so surprised, Your Highness. You weren't on any mercy mission this time, we know you collect everything you can about your customers, just like we do. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the encryption keys for the data they sent you.
Princess Google: I don't know what you're talking about. I am a member of the free marketplace on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
Darth Rogers: You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take her away!
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I bet he ends up as a lobbyist at Harris Corp, makers of the Hailstrom mobile phone tracking tools. Maybe he'll lobby for law enforcement agencies so they can continue to militarize themselves with more mine resistant ambush tanks and UAV drones.
I have to give him credit. He didn't even blink when it came to flushing his public career away, in order to be recognized as the most hardline pro surveillance Congressman in American history. He'll go down in infamy.
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Re: Rep Mike Rodgers as a Sith Lord
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The only way that could be unpatriotic is if the State is the totality of the government, and the People are servants to that State rather than the other way around.
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And spying via data collection
And still, after all these years, critical infrastructure and core business logic is connected to the public internet directly why? This is not a new idea, yet organizations keep exposing more and more highly sensitive things to the public internet. And some of these financial and exchange institutions would also be the ones running 1970s hardware and software because it is far too complex to upgrade and replace. OK!
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Stupid is as stupid does.
Imagine just how screwed we'd all be if our masters were actually smart.
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Just consider...
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unpatriotic
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Unpatriotic is...
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NSA is unpatriotic
ie - The U.S. should be a bastion of security, citizen privacy, etc. Not a hell-hole where everyone watches everything everyone else does 24x7x365.25
The NSA/CIA/FBI, SCotUS and PotUS need to be bitch slapped into reality to understand that 9/11 did NOT change the constitution, and that legal-sleeze wording does not get around the intent behind the constitution.
When it says "congress may pass no law" - that cannot be contested, it cannot be hemmed and hawed around, it means no laws that do anything to midigate or undermine those rights, period.
Anyone attempting to do so should be arrested, tried for treason and summarily shot.
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Re: unpatriotic
/sarc
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Re:
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Mike Roger's logic applied to the crime of rape
That sounds like a rapist blaming their rape victim for fighting back and saying "you should be ashamed of yourself".
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Re: Glad your leaving
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Re: Re: Glad your leaving
A recent poll would seem to suggest otherwise:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/01/22/most-young-americans-say-snowden-has-serve d-the-public-interest/
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Re: Mike Roger's logic applied to the crime of rape
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Re: Re: Re: Glad your leaving
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Re: NSA is unpatriotic
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http://xkcd.com/1357/
National security and patriotism are the government version of that. When you have absolutely no justification for your argument, that's the way you go, with one minor difference.
See if you can spot it:
Case 1
Asshole: You are all sheeple who deserve to die.
You: Asshole, get the f**k out of my house.
Asshole: F**k you I can say whatever I want.
You: Say it somewhere else.
Case 2
Government asshole: You deserve to die for national security reasons
You: *brains splattered on floor*
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Which *ism is it really Mike Rogers belongs to?
Patriotism is to love your country enough to see the faults and then wanting to correct those faults, in order to make it better.
Maybe extremism is a better word... Like certain groups, these people have a "cause" and everyone else be damned in order for them to fulfill that cause.
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Hey Mike?
... fffffFFFFFFffffuck you.
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thank you Mr Oizo
This is a dog and pony show; A sensationalistic act to distract reporters and give them something to write about, something that shapes the propaganda narrative in a useful way- ie: google (the entity collecting far more info on you then anyone else) is your friend, and meaningfully resists government over-reach. That is utter bullshit.
Spying done for business purposes is no different then for NS interest- if anything it's far worse, as google is under even less restrictions and oversight then the gov.
You cannot logically be against mass surveillance/ poisoning the security well, and be OK with what google does. It's like being vehemently against cupcakes, but all for cake batter...
google analytic scripts are on the vast majority of webpages- they track you everywhere whether you choose to use google or not... The data they collect is a product!
worse still, goggle has... at least kept quite about the fact that ALL cell phones are effectively back-doored through insecure proprietary baseband processors that operate below the OS and have 100% access/control to the phones memory (research this please- it even effects the so-called secure phones that are coming out).
If google gave two shits about gov over-reach, or even genuine freedom and property rights, the first thing they'd do is give people real authoritative control over their own hardware. Instead, they are right with all the other tech giants in releasing and transitioning the public onto devices (phones and anything with cell based network, probably more then that- uefi..ect) which the gov/corporations have more control/authority of then the users. Google does this under the guise of "open source" which android is anything but when it comes down to the most important pieces of the system.
All retail phones have closed source mandatory app store, and several system processes which have root control access to your phone, even when you don't. They've even managed to convince people it's dangerous to be in control of their own hardware by having root... Only curious/paranoid hackers are able to see just how insanely abusive the system is with your data.
If you doubt me, check for yourself:
On android- Get root, install an AOSP rom, install titanium backup and use it to convert google sys apps into user apps, install LBE security, or xposed/xprivacy framework, or a similar privilege/permissions admin/monitor, install iptables based firewall- set everything to PROMPT so you can watch every permission/connection request. You'll see then, there is often NO correlation to necessity of data and time it's requested- your phone straight up spys on you, constantly, by design- even after you go "full" AOSP. Due to the baseband issue, even those willing to go through this PITA process of going 'android with minimal (AOSP, userland restricted) google sys apps' are not guaranteed full control of their hardware. ...don't even get me started on trying to eliminate hidden logging- the system just undoes your work and recreates them- even when you have root... I gave up. (Note: this all worked on froyo & early ICS- no clue if it still does or if they've since covered their tracks better)
This is the future(present) we're headed to (and somewhat already in). This is bullrun- and so far, they're getting away with it. You will not have final authority to control your own hardware in the future- you already don't with allot of devices.
Wake up Techdirt. Stop falling for propaganda bait.
TLDR: Amateur security researcher/enthusiast thinks this is all propaganda posturing, Techdirt is suspiciously blind of BULLRUN and completely full of crap when it comes to reporting anything related to google. google IS evil (technical proof and instructions to verify above).
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NSA and industrial Espionage
Would you buy a phone , knowing the manufacturer is legally required to assist the NSA in any way possible ?
Would you buy a computer with a certain operating system, knowing that the NSA can make them put a back door in it through an "update" , and that the NSA has a history of making sure american companies win contracts in foriegn countries (like brazil) and you're bidding against an american company for some work ?
Given NSA has been stealing copyright stuff from other nations, how much of "American Innovation" do you think is american , and how much did the NSA hand to big US companies and say "copyright this quick , before they do" ?
Do you really think four billion chinese can't come up with a single invention of their own ? Not even one ?
Do you trust the NSA not to use their gathered information to black mail politicians ? (non-american ones , I mean, which the USA would consider perfectly legal)
From the perspective of the non-american ... the nightmare is only beginning here. Nothing is being solved unless we do it ourselves.
And that starts with a "do not buy american" policy. We have no choice.
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I don't see how anyone can have trust in either Rogers or Feinstein.
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Re: thank you Mr Oizo
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Circular logic
If Google, Microsoft, Cisco, et.al. doesn't act against NSA surveilance, then they will loose customers. Specifically - in Europe - to European based competitors. Thus, cutting off the NSA from that traffic.
So if they don't act, NSA will loose the ability to snoop around, if they do act, then NSA has the hope of atleast snooping something?
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Patriotic - Huh
He once famously said (justifying the US disengagement from spying) "Gentlemen do no read each others' mail".
It is not "unpatriotic" to call out your country when it is behaving badly.
The most patriotic thing you can do is to try to make your country more worthy of respect.
Mike Rogers attitude shows how far US politicians have sunk into a moral mire.
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Re:
They're willing to, in their mind, justify the importance of their next quarter's earnings in Europe versus the national security of the United States.
... is working as intended: Google's responsibility to its shareholders to secure their bottom line outweighs any responsibility it might have (I'd argue none, but even if you don't) to national security.
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Re:
You opt in to using googles ad networks when you signup for their services. To stop them 'reading' (its not actually reading you moron) your emails you stop using the service.
You cannot opt-out of the NSA viewing all your emails, browsing habits, phone records.
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Re: Re: thank you Mr Oizo
If you do what he asks and insert a prompt for every communication that your devices make (provided you can take control of your pc's, phones, tablets, etc) and then if you come back and repeat "we volunteer our info to Google" you'd be wrong only you'd know it.
BULLRUN
I think if you search for the words "industry partners" you might in a better position to fully understand the post. And the sense of urgency therein.
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Snowden Day
That's a full year that they've been baffle-gabbing all you Bozos on this bus, so ya'all won't ask yerself "who the fuck is guarding the henhouse?".
I have to wonder just how many gigabytes of YOUR data the Five Eyes have managed to scoop up during those 360 plus days, while they were grandstanding in the Truth Free Press and making lame excuses for everything they've been caught doing so far, and claiming they are doing no wrong.
I wonder - since their technology will only get better as corporations realize they can join forces and win immunity by assisting the government in its endeavors - how many terabytes of your data the Five Eyes will vacuum up during the next 365 days.
Every person in north america now has a book with their name on it - probably running some 2-3000 pages and growing by the hour - that lists your friends, your enemies, your hobbies, your fears, your likes and perversions, your address, your school grades, your passwords, your favorite everything, your daily routines, your food choices, your party places, your hopes and aspirations... and every tiny infraction you thought you got away with over the last decade or two.
But hey, you know how it is. Just too busy trying to make ends meet to actually give any of this weird shit much thought ye know.... and besides it can't be all that important cuz they don't even mention it on TV...
ooooooooooooooo - extremely loud and awful music just started playing on my computer, and I don't have music stored on this computer.
Had to turn off my speakers!
How terribly silly!
Methinks I may have hit a nerve.
I can only hope.
===
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With friends like that, who needs enemies?
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And refuse to send any email to gmail accounts belonging to others.
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Re: Patriotic - Huh
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