Ferguson Debacle Results In Armored Vehicles Being Removed From Two California Police Departments
from the a-tale-of-two-PDs dept
Today's militarized policeman often feels naked without the protection of mine-resistant vehicles, despite very little evidence that such vehicles are necessary to handle the deadly (or is it?) rigors of police work. Citizens, however, aren't so sure they like seeing their law enforcement officers rolling out like they're keeping the peace in the middle of Baghdad.Even better, some representatives are finally starting to feel the same way. Sure, the vehicles and other militarized accoutrements may come cheap, thanks to DHS grants, but even deep, deep discounts aren't enough to justify picking these up simply because the US government has made them available.
Two law enforcement agencies will be returning their MRAPs to Uncle Sam, with the announcements arriving almost simultaneously.
Davis, Calif., city officials have directed the police department to return a surplus U.S. military armored vehicle to the federal government after residents, citing images seen during protests in Ferguson, Mo., expressed fears of militarization.Councilman Robb Davis explained the rationale behind the decision:
The Davis Police Department now has 60 days to get rid of a $689,000 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected armored vehicle, which police acquired through a U.S. Defense Department program, and must consider other rescue vehicle options.
"I am opposed to the investments that are made and then the results of those investments flowed back to our community in ways that may not hurt our community in a physical sense by are destructive in terms of not increasing our security but increasing our anxiety." Councilman Robb Davis said at a council meeting Tuesday.The public's growing unease with the weaponry amassed via the Pentagon's 1033 program has been hurtling towards critical mass in recent weeks, thanks to the heavy-handed tactics and military gear used by police officers in response to protests in Ferguson, MO. The police cited armored vehicles' life-saving qualities in two separate instances, but that wasn't enough to sway the council's vote. Perhaps the worst part (for the cops) is the fact that they didn't even get a chance to take their new armored toy for a spin.
The Davis Police Department took possession of the free vehicle two weeks ago…It still had that new 1033 acquisition smell. What a shame.
Over in San Jose, CA, it's a completely different story. Rather than having an MRAP pried from law enforcement's clutches by city reps, the San Jose Police Department gave it up voluntarily to protect its relationship with the people it serves.
San Jose police spokeswoman Sgt. Heather Randol told KCBS the decision was made based on concerns for potential damage to the department’s image and community relationships.
“We want to keep their trust. We don’t want them to feel we are going off on another path with our police department,” she said. “We want them to feel comfortable about the tools that we use.”Kudos to the SJPD. Not many police departments offer this sort of statement as lip service, much less with actions to back it up. Notice that it's San Jose, with a population of nearly 1 million and a violent crime rate right at the national average, that is voluntarily giving up its armored vehicle. Davis (pop. 66,000) has a violent crime rate that's roughly half of San Jose's, and its MRAP had to be taken away from it by the city government. (Quick fact: San Jose had 35 murders in 2012. Davis had 4... in the last decade.) Who would you rather be policed by? Those who know that combating serious crime doesn't require the use of shock-and-awe vehicles or those who think that officer safety is more important than maintaining a positive relationship with their community?
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Filed Under: 1033, armored vehicles, california, davis, dhs, law enforcement, militarization, militarized police, mrap, police, police departments, san jose
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Is there going to be a new automobile category on eBay?
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Re: So...
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It doesn't help matters that they look like one, act like one, and have a willingness to use hardware one would have.
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Need to use the equipment
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But, then I think further and realize that all they are doing is returning to a point they should have never left in the first place. Why give kudos so soon?
Regardless, police departments across the entire country need to start doing this (returning military equipment). And, then once they've done that, take yet another step towards the people to start repairing the rift that has developed, a rift the departments themselves, aided by our own federal government, have caused.
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I'd like my police department more if they gave me a Humvee or an M16.
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Hey - you could, at some point in your career, get shot at. Would you like military body armor? Of course you would.
It's the jackwagons that didn't think through offering it that should get their hands slapped, not the people that said yes when they were offered a free grenade launcher. Trust me, the only answer you will ever hear when you offer a guy a grenade launcher is 'yes please'.
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Not unless I could immediately sell it for the cash. If I had to keep it, it would just be a liability to me.
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I'm sure you get it - there is zero cost for this equipment for the people that sign for it. With no cost, it is a pretty enticing toy. I'm not sure I would have thought through the damage just having them could have done.
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Re: if you filled out a form they would give you a Humvee, wouldn't you fill out the form?
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Police need serious military equipment because . . .
Piracy! Tar. Biterrent. The intarwebs.
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YEAH, we are all safe in our lifetime plus two more from every seeing a mickey mouse derivative work. Life is good...
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That would make sense to me. You have a vehicle that would help make your police officers more approachable to children, you could use it for community events, and it would totally take the wind out of a heated situation with a drug lord when you rolled up with a giant smiling steam train and told him to drop his weapon.
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As far as the tower - I assume you mean Whitman? They didn't need additional cover on the ground and could not have driven an MRAP up the steps to go get him.
I'm not sure either of those examples would have benefited from this particular equipment.
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Better to keep everyone in prison then as someone might become a criminal otherwise.
As long as were concerned about safety what do individual rights matter
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(Mind you, I am the one who originally brought up both of those as for reasons why this shouldn't be all about removing SWAT teams and all tactical gear in a previous post.)
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Nobody's saying it is. What people are saying is that it's inappropriate for police use, and that the police can't be trusted with it.
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You do not respond by turning the police into undertrained trigger-happy Rambo wannabes.
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Too bad it wasn't used for what it was intended for....
Unfortunately many of our police departments are unregulated, unsupervised, and undisciplined. They seem to believe, not only that they are above the law, but in many cases they _are_ the law. Just look at any run of the mill tin-pot dictatorship to see where that leads (or most U.S. police forces, sadly).
If we stopped using our National Guardsmen as underpaid Reservists and kept them state side to handle disasters and domestic emergencies, _they_ would be around to handle the next Katrina or 9/11. If you don't think we have enough of them, and _still_ want to involve the police this is how I think it _should_ have been handled;
Let police departments acquire surplus military equipment via the pentagon's 1033 program.
Require that they receive proper training on how to use this equipment, say from those National Guardsmen.
Restrict it's use to _very_ specific situations; national emergencies, _actual_ terrorist attack, etc. Some sort of declaration from the governor or president. Otherwise it's off limits.
While you're at it, limit the use of S.W.A.T. teams to what they were designed for; bomber in the mall, shooter with hostages in a grade school, heavily armed bank robbers, etc.
Stop using them to raid houses for unauthorized DVD production or to deliver no-knock warrants for suspected pot use to homes with small children at two o'clock in the morning will make everyone safer.
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Re: Too bad it wasn't used for what it was intended for....
If that's the purpose, then that's absolutely batshit insane.
In what way would any of this equipment have been even remotely useful with 9/11? And if things have degenerated to the point where it is needed, then we should be doing what we used to do anyway: call in the national guard.
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Re: Re: Too bad it wasn't used for what it was intended for....
In what way would any of this equipment have been even remotely useful with 9/11?
Or the Boston marathon bombing, or Oklahoma City, or the anthrax attacks.... MRAPs are not counter-terrorism tools.
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Officer Safety
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Re: Officer Safety
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The Federal Government is going BROKE
All of the politicians and administrators will be in the business of raising taxes forever because now instead of just wasting our money, they can give it away in big chunks to local PDs that will have no real use for the equipment it receives.
A big part of the problem that local police departments have adopted the "fix it now" mentality. It used to be that when there was a "shooter" the smart tactic was to just wait the situation out. Let the situation stand for a couple hours to a couple days and wait for the situation to resolve itself peacefully.
Now, the local "star" police department has to storm in on exorbitantly expensive equipment for the 5 o'clock news to "save the day", RIGHT NOW.
It's another aspect of the "do something" political mentality. It doesn't have to be the right thing, just do something.
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Re: The Federal Government is going BROKE
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Re: The Federal Government is going BROKE
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Re: The Federal Government is going BROKE
IIRC that changed after Columbine. They were going to wait it out. Meanwhile the shooters wandered around the school killing people.
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Re: The Federal Government is going BROKE
I don't know about this equipment in particular, but sometimes Congress forces the military to buy stuff they don't want. Then they have to do something with it. In the case of tanks, they park them out in the desert (the ones they don't sell to another country). Maybe this stuff is similarly not wanted, and they found a seemingly better use for it.
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FSBO
MRAP vehicle, painted in tactical police black. $4000 OBO or trade for good pickup truck.
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Looks like the Barney Fife's of this country have been promoted to Chief and the most of the Andy's have since retired.
How could they not see how citizens would react to these things?
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If It Is Against The Law To Have MRAPs ...
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A Step in the Right Direction
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1033's not the only source
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