Comcast Sued Over Router Update That Makes Your Wi-Fi Hotspot Public, Ignores Your Opt-Out Preferences
from the pay-us-to-pay-us dept
In June of last year, Comcast quietly announced that it was deploying a new "Xfinity Home Hotspot" initiative that would turn user home routers into publicly-accessible hotspots. Updated routers broadcast two signals: one being yours, and the other being an "Xfinitywifi" SSID offering free Wi-Fi to Comcast users in the area (prepaid Wi-Fi for non-Comcast customers). Comcast's FAQ attempts to minimize customer worries about the initiative by noting the public Wi-Fi doesn't count against the customer's usage caps, and the router delivers extra bandwidth (above your provisioned speeds) to counter any extra usage load.There are a number of problems with the initiative. One, you're paying Comcast a monthly fee (up to $10 in many areas) to rent hardware that's using your bandwidth (and around $30 in electricity annually) to effectively advertise and sell Comcast services. Two, the service is being deployed market-by-market without prior consumer consent. It's also opt out not opt-in, and users complain the routers continuously and mysteriously reset this preference each time the hardware receives a firmware update. Three, Comcast's sending out misleading e-mails that may place an order for the new hardware without your consent.
Complaints have been growing about this initiative for a while, but they appear to have reached a fevered pitch this week with the news that Comcast is now facing a class action lawsuit over the Xfinity Home Hotspot program. Reading the complaint, lawyers don't appear to have noticed yet that the opt-out mechanism often doesn't actually work -- but from the looks of things the fact Comcast doesn't give advanced warning about the changes may be enough for a case:
"Grear claims that Comcast does not request customers' authorization to use their residential equipment and networks for public use. "Indeed, Comcast's contract with its customers is so vague that it is unclear as to whether Comcast even addresses this practice at all," the lawsuit claims. In using its customers' home networks to build a national network, Comcast "has externalized the costs of its national wi-fi network onto its customers," Grear says in the complaint. He claims that the new routers use much more electricity than regular routers, and that this is "a cost borne by the unwitting customer."Fortunately, Comcast customers can skip the legal proceedings and take things into their own hands by buying their own compatible router and modems, thereby avoiding paying Comcast a $10 per month rental fee to help build Comcast's nationwide Wi-Fi network. Estimates suggest Comcast makes $300 million per quarter just off of these modem rental fees alone, and the monthly fee has steadily climbed sykward over the last several years.
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Filed Under: hotspots, lawsuits, modem rentals, modems, opt-out, routers, terms of service, wifi
Companies: comcast
Reader Comments
The First Word
“There's also the easement issue
If a radio station or mobile company wanted to place a transmission or cell tower on my property, they would have to negotiate a lease agreement. I.e. they would pay me for having their equipment providing their customers for service.This is the same thing. But I get ripped off. Not only are they using my property as a transmission point, they are making ME pay for the equipment do service their customer, and the utilities to support it. That unfairness in this is that the lease is not dependent upon if I opt-in or opt-out.
I think they should have a reasonable case.
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Mixed feelings - Mixed hatred
So in the end I would pay more with Comcast. Cost per MB of available bandwidth when you include the rental fees would cost me more on a monthly basis. I can quote numbers but since they like to geo-price things it would not be applicable outside my area so I did not.
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Re: Mixed feelings - Mixed hatred
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There's also the easement issue
This is the same thing. But I get ripped off. Not only are they using my property as a transmission point, they are making ME pay for the equipment do service their customer, and the utilities to support it. That unfairness in this is that the lease is not dependent upon if I opt-in or opt-out.
I think they should have a reasonable case.
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Pirates rejoice!
Perhaps we should inform the MPAA and RIAA of this and pit them against Comcast. With luck, they'll destroy each other and we'll no longer have to suffer either of them.
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Re: Pirates rejoice!
No, that wouldn't happen. First, you aren't actually using your neighbor's WiFi. You're using an different WiFi AP that happens to be housed in Comcast's equipment sitting in your neighbor's place. Using that AP does not cause any confusion about what your neighbor is up to.
Second, you have to log in to use the service, so all users are identified.
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Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
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Re: Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
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Re: Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
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Re: different WiFi AP
I can see it now: Police are investigating a credit card fraud or child pornography ring, and it all traces to a specific IP. So they look up the IP and it's assigned to a specific street address. So they get a warrant, kick the door in at 3 am, and point guns at the people inside since they're obviously the perpetrators.
It seems a little risky to rely on the judge, jury, prosecutor and police to understand the difference in who controls the hotspot...
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Re: Re: different WiFi AP
The IP being used for the public portion is not the subscriber's IP.
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Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
and remember that everything you say might be used against you in a court of law...
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Re: Pirates rejoice!
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Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
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Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
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Re: Re: Pirates rejoice!
Please keep in mind though, I made those because I was interested to see if I could. No, I will not allow access to them, and no, I will not share screenshots or distribute this software to anyone.
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Comcast probably got an NSL
Also, the NSA needs a covert backbone to harvest signals from all their internet-of-things implants that communicate via wifi.
Next up: logging wifi MAC's from all automobiles.
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This doesn't bother me
If I did use Comcast's equipment, though, it wouldn't bother me that Comcast is doing this for two reasons: first, the publicly available AP is not actually your subscriber AP. It's using the same hardware, but routed as a separate thing, so introduces no security problems. Second, the bandwidth people use doesn't count against me. I see this as no different than if Comcast put APs on top of the telephone poles on my street.
Fair disclosure: I did benefit from Comcast's efforts here, though. The last time I moved, I had a two week gap during the service transfer where I had no internet access of my own. However, my neighbor had one of those Comcast APs, so I had internet access available in the interim anyway. It was the only time that I thought that rarest of phrases: "thank you, Comcast".
Of course, a better solution would have been that Comcast improve their processes so there wasn't a two-week gap in service in the first place.
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Re: This doesn't bother me
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Re: This doesn't bother me
This ignores the problem of what happens if someone uses the public AP to do something illegal -- sure, it has its own IP address, but guess whose street address that IP will trace back to?
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Re: Re: This doesn't bother me
I'm talking about using my own gateway.
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Re: Re: This doesn't bother me
Since this is the second time you've made this point, I'll address it in greater detail.
I suppose there is some risk of having the police knock on your door, but the risk is tiny and the consequences if it happens are also relatively small.
I've been operating (and still do) my own public AP for a couple of decades now. I've never once had any trouble as a result of doing so. If someone used my AP for illegal activities and the police knocked on my door, it would certainly be a huge hassle, but not a disaster.
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Changes settings
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Re: Changes settings
By the way, there is another serious user problem caused by this commandeering ... if you make a config change that causes your router to not work (such as entering a bad DNS IP) you can NO LONGER access your own router! Just happened to me recently, and I had to use laptop to log into a public Optimum hot spot in order to access my own router config.
A new, "user owned" router was ordered today!!
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Of the bad things Comcast does and can do
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Misleading Energy Cost Claim
Thus, at most, opening up the router for public use (thereby increasing load) could have a maximum annual cost impact of ~$10.
If you really wanted to make a stink about energy use, you'd talk about the comparative inefficiency of leased routers, which use almost three times more electricity. https://extension.purdue.edu/renewable-energy/pdf/HomeElecctronics,ID-439-W.pdf
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Re: Misleading Energy Cost Claim
My router is powered up only when I'm present. Call me a 'tinfoil skeptic' but even with white-listing MACs, highest encryption level possible with said router, and a 20+ character password I don't want to give any 'drive-by hackers' any advantage.
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Re: Misleading Energy Cost Claim
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Usage cap
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Re: Usage cap
Nope, aside from the fact that the public side provides lower bandwidth and more monitoring.
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Re: Usage cap
You logon with your Comcast id, and there is an even lower individual cap on free wifi use. All that is unlimited is the total data usage from the public wifi side.
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Re: Usage cap
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How about 1099-misc?
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Re: How about 1099-misc?
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Re:
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Opt-out == Uh-oh
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Perhaps what Comcast should have done was set it up so that if you use one of these hotspots (you have to put in your Xfinity username and password), you've opted in to let them use your router, but I suppose that might have looked a little too much like customer service for those guys.
Saddest thing is that I didn't even know you were allowed to buy a compatible router. Considering all the trouble their poorly-made, incredibly fragile routers have caused me in the past, I should have done it years ago.
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Comcast needs to be a lot more care of where the turn on xfinity hotspots.
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Re:
I have a very hard time seeing how that is in any way Comcast's fault or responsibility. If those people are illegally parked, then call the apartment manager and complain. If they are not, then call the apartment manager and tell them they need to prohibit parking there.
In other words, this is the responsibility of the apartment complex, not Comcast.
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Except, in a number of demonstrable cases, Comcast charges people a 'non-hardware usage fee'....of $10/mo.
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What about Digital Voice Telephone Service
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Re: What about Digital Voice Telephone Service
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Re: Re: What about Digital Voice Telephone Service
Did not inform me , I had to call and set up a password,
So, like a coffee shop, It cost me 500.00. to repair all.
not withstanding the health issue's, I am still hoarse,
From dealing with those at Comcast that can't speak English.
At least Verizon, they are all U.S.citizens , and they insure that they have a good use of the English language.
Why, rated, #1 in tech support, and other functions!
What is the class action attorney handling the class action?
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I hope Comcast loses the class action lawsuit. It would serve them right.
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Re: Comcase "customer service"
I want to hear what it does for me other than take up more space on my rack.
Regards
GG
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Not such a bad thing
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Calm down - Hypothetical
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How about asking for permission?
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xfinity using hotspots in hacking into my computer
After the service was put in I didn't understand how my computer was being hacked into. I would dismantle the computer every time I used it but know they were by passing my WiFi in order to hack into my computer and llock me out of my documents and they placed certificates in my computer where I can't access sits.
I contacted the FCC with respect as late as September 2014 when I noticed I was being monitored in my own home without knowledge. They had no right to invade my movement in my own home. They tapped my phone lines and they monitored my telephone and what calls I received and/or not received. Not only did Xfinity used this criminal activity but At&t used the same conduct.
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Re: xfinity using hotspots in hacking into my computer
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Comcast charging for battery pack
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thisnis bs
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Xfinity helping not hurting
Since the big monopolies, wireless carriers no longer offer any kind of unlimited data, comcast has done you a large favor. People are not camping out in front of your homes. So if you are walking the dog, and listening to the radio, or whatever you may be doing via Internet, you are not using that expensive data from your wireless carrier. Say thank you Comcast. So if you feel like your being done wrong. Go use what they have given you, all over the US, on the go, at a neighbor's house, at a restaurant, and keep from using your wireless carrier's way expensive, over priced data.
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Re: Xfinity helping not hurting
"Only subscribers can access the public hotspot feature."
That's where you're wrong, others can 'FOR A FEE'. THAT is why they're doing this. Free advertising, and free $$$ from people desperate enough to sign up for a temporary pass to use their WiFi. They're essentially using you to spam someone looking for WiFi, hoping it will result in some additional income. Honestly, why would automatically making a residential modem broadcast a public hotspot help YOU? All that does is attract non-locals to your house to leech WiFi, if they were local they'd have their own WiFi to use. I honestly don't know anyone that would force guests in their home to use a public hotspot for security reasons as Comcast claims as a benefit, that's just ridiculous.
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Comcast modem
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I changed my stance
I WAS happy with the Hotspot though. Since xfinity has a data cap I would disconnect from my WiFi when I got close to the cap and connect to the Hotspot because it didn't track my data. But now they track the data no matter what your connected to, as long as you're signed in to your account. And now that non-Comcast users can pay to use the Hotspots my neighbors can disconnect their Internet and just use mine while I'm paying hundreds of dollars plus rent for the modem/router...
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I am wondering if this interferes with my Uverse?
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wifi
create wifi hotspot
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survivor series live streaming
survivor series 2015 live
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australian open 2016 live
australian open 2016
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Comcast class action suit
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Comcast wifi router/modem issues/class action suit
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Here is My Website
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I don't have nor want wifi in my residence
Once again if people like it let them have it but my health certainly declines majorly so who the heck are they to force this on me and hide the fact its in there..
It's almost the equivalent of a chef sprinkling peanuts into your food and not telling yopu about it and you may run into the very rare person that has a peanut allergy what then ? I am part of the 5% of the country sensitive . I don't see how they can legally get away with this
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Re: I don't have nor want wifi in my residence
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Trader Group
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Still an ongoing problem
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Have my own modem and still they turn on their hotspot
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How neighbor is able to get me to bypass my own modem and control cable internet and phone
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Good
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Comcast router and modem
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