Dish, Fox News Feud Again Illustrates How The Cable TV Industry Is Digging Its Own Grave

from the burning-your-own-house-down dept

Mon, Dec 29th 2014 2:18pm — Karl Bode

If you have cable you've probably been exposed to one of the increasingly ugly retransmission fee disputes occurring between cable operators and broadcasters. They usually go something like this: as the two sides fail to hammer out new programming contracts, programmers pull their content from your cable lineup. Both sides then use media campaigns, on screen tickers, and websites all trying to convince you that the other guy is a nefarious, greedy villain. Frequently lost in the festivities is the fact that consumers get to pay the same amount of money for cable, even though they're suddenly able to watch less content.

After a month or so of consumers being used as public relations pinatas the disputes end, confidential new contracts are signed, and the consumer is forgotten until they're socked with a new, higher cable bill down the road. While it's true broadcasters are responsible for the majority of programming increases, neither side is blameless, and both parties look for every opportunity to gouge their customers, making this a scenario where you truly wish both sides could lose.

The latest example of this dysfunction is the ongoing feud between Dish Network and Fox News, which resulted in Dish customers losing access to both Fox News Channel and Fox Business Channel roughly a week ago. As with other fights, both sides have loud websites trying to harness consumer outrage toward the other side. Also like similar fights, users get to keep paying the same amount of money despite getting less content. Unlike other fights where consumers may not actually miss what's been taken away (as we saw with the DirecTV, Weather Channel fight), Fox News viewers really love their daily smorgasbord of "fair and balanced" dance numbers, and have been driving a significant amount of annoyance Dish's direction:

"Since Dish dropped Fox News, Dish has focused on shifting blame instead of getting Fox News back on the air. But the facts speak for themselves – Dish has blocked more than 10 channels in the last six months alone,” said the network statement. “We continue to work on resolving this situation, but until Dish is responsive, we are unable to update you on when Fox News will be available."

Consequently, Fox’s fan base has besieged Dish with calls and emails since the channel went dark. By Fox’s tally, about 180,000 complaint calls have been registered with the toll-free line Fox established for the Dish fight. At last count, 140,000-plus emails have been sent as well."

Since Fox News has all the leverage here (Fox News continues to drive some of the only gains in cable right now) Dish will ultimately fold, offer up something close to what Fox originally wanted, and raise its rates sometime in the new year. But it's no victory; it's these endless programming increases that have many smaller cable companies dropping out of the TV business to just focus on broadband. It's of course these same rates that have customers looking increasingly to less-expensive TV options like Netflix or Amazon.

It is astonishing that the cable and broadcast industry continues to bicker over the body of a dying cash cow as its house burns down around it. It requires a very particular skill set to take an industry with some of the worst customer satisfaction ratings in the country and find a way to make the consumer experience notably worse. At this point, carriage fee disputes are akin to a beverage retailer and the White Star Line bickering over Scotch prices at the Titanic bar.

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Filed Under: cable tv, fox news, retransmission, retransmission fights, tv
Companies: dish, fox

124 Comments

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That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:31pm

Intervention, not dispute
Given the 'lost' channels include Fox News, I can't help but think Dish is really missing an opportunity here. They should be talking about how this is a good thing for their subscribers, how, even if they may be suffering now without their drug of choice, after a while, it gets better, and they'll find that life is better without Fox.

'We're not doing this for us, we're doing it for you, and while it may be hard to deal with now, down the line, you'll thank us for it.'
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:32pm

Isn't Fox and Fox News a free over-the-air channel anyway? Perhaps Dish should redirect users to an antenna.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:33pm

Re: Intervention, not dispute
Agreed. The net IQ of Dish subscribers will only go up without Fox.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:43pm

Re:
Fox News is not OTA
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Vidiot (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:52pm

The house sinks, or the boat burns
"... the cable and broadcast industry continues to bicker over the body of a dying cash cow as its house burns down around it..."

"... carriage fee disputes are akin to a beverage retailer and the White Star Line bickering over Scotch prices at the Titanic bar."

So many metaphors, so little time.

Have that cow buy me a Scotch before he goes. But none for Fox or Dish; for all I care, they can burn. Or drown. Or both.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:53pm

Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
I must also concur. Although certainly none of the other networks are much better. If Dish truly wanted to serve the public interest, it would replace the former Fox "News" channel with a steady scroll of actual real live journalism -- still occasionally found in the newspapers and magazines, quite often in blogs and podcasts.

Of course they would have to ease it in: the inferior minds of Fox "News" viewers would likely be unable to comprehend higher-order concepts such as "facts" and "logic", so I would suggest dumbing it down to a 5th-grade level or so for the first six months. After that it might be feasible to slowly ease them into a world where science and reason prevail over ignorance, superstition, fear, prejudice and full-blown batshit crazy crap.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:53pm

How sad...
...that Fox News has that kind of support, it says something truly terrifying about our population.

On the other hand, what chutzpah on the part of the cable companies to not adjust pricing when what they charge for is reduced.
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DigDug, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:55pm

if anyone believe's it's Dish's fault - they're idiots.
It's all greed by the content producers, 100%, no questions asked or allowed.

I say F' Fox News - don't like em, don't want em, won't miss em - bunch of lying scum.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:57pm

Line item billing statements.

Here's why you're paying more:

Fox News: wanted more money and it's also why you didn't get to see it while we negotiated.

Twanspawency!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 2:58pm

No surprise at the reaction. When you cut a junkie off of their supply they get enraged and will do anything to get it back. And yes, CNN/MSNBC equally apply here
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Andyroo, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:06pm

Again
Why oh why do American people accept it when big business steals from them , yes it is theft even if it is legally covered and the law allows it.
you have the likes of Comcast who commit blatant fraud against their customers, and AT&T who openly lie to their customers and to the lawmakers.

Now they want to pass laws that prevent the FCC from doing what millions have asked them to do, this is not a bipartisan issue everyone wants title II but the isp's.

When are the American people going to realise that their system of governance is corrupt and a failure and do something to stop big business from stealing from consumers with the support of their corrupt and failed political system.

Americans try to claim they are a republic and the best example of a democray, well at this moment in time i think it is obvious to anyone with a reasonable IQ that the American political system has failed and needs to be changed for the people not big business.

Just because corruption and bribery is allowed by law does not make it right and the fact that Americans are accepting it as it is is just sad , very sad.

The big political collapse is coming, this corrupt system has lasted too long and will eventually break itself when people refuse to participate in the corruption and it will not be the conservatives or democrats who resolve the problems , it will be an outside force that takes the power away from both of them.

open your eyes Americans you are allowing your country to be more corrupt than Zimbabwe.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
O yes, lets bash the fox watchers like they are less intelligent than the non-fox watchers.

You are just as ignorant and foolish as they are. I do not watch Fox or the Trash you watch either... guess that makes me better than you all!

Get off your (dead) high horse and stop picking on specific news broadcasters... they are all biased and slanted, you just hate the ones not slanted in your direction or sporting your favorite dogma or pseudoscience of the week.

You won't find "facts" or "logic" in abundance anywhere and those speaking the most about having them are typically the ones most devoid of them!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:09pm

It's somewhat astounding how blind these cable companies can be. From a technology standpoint, the day is coming that "set top boxes" and "tv watching" is going to have more in common with using the Netflix or Hulu apps to watch something on your Playstation or Xbox than it will with past models of broadcast and cable. There's really little reason to keep the antiquated channel system when you have more advanced methods of sorting and searching content. When people don't expect to have "channels", but a broad range of "shows", available on one app or another, something like carriage fees are going to be meaningless.
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Rob (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:19pm

Re: Intervention, not dispute
Yeah - and you probably voted for Obama as well!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:21pm

Value Add
Fox is one of the reasons I dropped cable TV to begin with. I didn't want any of my money going to that organization and there was no package without Fox News.

I'd consider getting a Dish subscription, but this is definitely temporary, and the TV ship has long since sailed for me anyway.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
This is the second stage of grief; Anger.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:29pm

Re: Re:
I stand corrected then.
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30 Something, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:32pm

Fox News
We watch Fox News and if Dish doesn't get it back soon, we'll go to whomever does have it. Not sure if you knew this but they are the highest rated cable news network in America and its not even close. My parents and grandparents basically watch it all day long! Half this country still leans right, many of which feel alienated by NBC, ABC and CBS news broadcasts. Fox created a network for us and bingo found an audience.
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Roger Strong (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:37pm

Re: The house sinks, or the boat burns
So many metaphors, so little time.

Rather than speaking ill of the dying, Karl could at least have the common decency to choose a metaphor that makes what they're doing sound impressive.

Something like, "pounding the last nail in your own coffin while you're on the inside."

We wouldn't bad for applauding.
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connermac725 (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:38pm

NOT NEWS
Fox has said they are entertainment NOT news so if you want fake news they are plenty of alternatives
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Rob (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:41pm

Re: Fox News
You are a great American!
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DigDug, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:42pm

Re: Fox News
Careful there, Fox News Kool-Aid is carcinogenic, also, you'll go blind from watching it's unwholesome lies, damned lies and double-dumb-ass lies.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:54pm

All they need to do is buy an antenna and they can get Fox over the air in HD. I personally don't watch it much, but its available should I decide to.
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Rob (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 3:55pm

Re: Re: Fox News
Let's see "What difference does it make?"..."If you like your health care, you can keep it"..."Trayvon Martin could have been my son"..."Mr. Brown was a good and honest person"..."There's nothing to the IRS scandal"..."The Benghazi Attack was in response to a video"...shall I continue with "your" so-called truth?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
You poor, poor, ignorant person. I don't watch any of the pseudo-news trash on television because I recognize it for just that: trash.

And yes, watching Fox "News" does make people stupid: see, for example: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/study-watching-fox-news-actually-makes-you-less-informed-2 0120524

Perhaps you should turn it off before it has even more of an effect on your already-inferior mind.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:11pm

Re: Fox News
I have a better idea. Let's get Fox "News" to start covering a story about how the sun is about to be eaten by a mutant star-goat, and thus it will be necessary to evacuate the planet. Now...into the A Ark will go the visionaries, scientists, artists, and into the C Ark will go the plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc....and into the B Ark will go alllll the Fox "News" viewers. Since there are so many, it will have to be enormous, of course -- but it won't be necessary to fuel it for extrasolar flight, doubly so since the primitive subhuman savages who watch Fox "News" think the Sun revolves around the earth anyway.

And then...
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Mike C. (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:15pm

Re: How sad...
If Dish could grow some corporate cojones and be a bit more open about pricing, they could "win" this dispute in a heartbeat. Imagine if they contacted their subscribers with this poll:

Fox Broadcasting (Fox) and Dish Networks (Dish) are in negotiation to determine the rate Dish will pay Fox per subscriber in order to carry their content. The last request Dish received from Fox was an increase of 175% over our previous contract amount. Since we cannot absorb the full cost of this increase, this means that we would have to increase all rate plans by at least $3/month. Please indicate below which option you would like to see us pursue:

1) Continue to aggresively negotiate with Fox so that we can keep the increase to a minimum
2) Agree to the increase which will mean a corresponding increase to your monthly bill
3) Investigate alternatives to Fox Broadcasting content and keep monthly bills static.
4) Drop Fox Broadcasting content entirely, do not find an alternative and reduce monthly bills by $3/month.

(yeah, yeah, I know... #4 would never happen. Be funny if it did though)
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Roger Strong (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:17pm

Re: Re: The house sinks, or the boat burns
er, feel bad.
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notreal, 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:19pm

Re: loss of Fox news
Anonymous Coward is really close.

Atually, Dish agrees that Fox News deserves a raise, given ho wmuch its viewership has grown. The thing is that the Fox Corp. has other channels (FXX, etc.) and they're trying to get more money for them as well. Dish doesn't want to pay more for them because these channels don't have the viewership to justify the rate increases Fox wants. You'd think that these channels would get knocked off but there are two problems with that.

1 Thoise channels are still under existing contracts, so Fox can't pull them anyway without breadhing their contracts.

2. People may not complain too much because there aren't tha tmany people who would miss them, so Fox hs no leverage.

Instead, what Fox did was say, "OK, you cna keep showing our not-so-populr channels, but we're going to not let you show our channels that are really popular unless you give us the extra money (as a "surcharge") that we want for our other channels.

Dish, meanwhile is apprenlty not looking at this as juct a super rate increase for Fox News, but rather two separate issues.

Who knows, when Fox New's contracts on Direct, Xfinity and whoever come due, we might see the same thing happen agian.

Meanwhile, the viewers lose out in this story, "A Tale of Two Greedies"
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smartin (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:27pm

You wrote:

"While it's true broadcasters are responsible for the majority of programming increases, ..."

Can you substantiate this allegation with publicly verifiable facts?
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art guerrilla (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:40pm

Re: Re: How sad...
not that your prescriptions don't make sense (if not cents) from the perspective of the current system; however, the starting premise (that ANY of these media korporations have ANY respect for the consumers AT ALL) is flawed...

we are caught in a game of rooting for 'our' rapacious bandits, instead of *those* other rapacious bandits who are engaging in internecine warfare we can hardly influence within the constraints of the system...

SWMBO and i are being amused with our dish favorite lists: while we only have a local fox for sports on our favorites lists, we have noticed a bunch of other channels which have bouncing around on our list with red shading, denoting they are not available... our list basically stays the same, but the channels flip in or out of availability/red in a seemingly random fashion...

that's all for our benefit, richtig ? ? ?

idiot media kingpins slit their own throats and wonder where all the blood is coming from...
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 4:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
Gotta love the "It's Just As Bad As Other Stuff" rational.

It is perfectly fine for So-N-So to do whatever simply because others do it too.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 5:10pm

Re: Re: loss of Fox news
Wait a sec ... Fox deserves a raise? Why? What makes them special?

Fox pundits quite happily berate the underemployed, implying it is their own fault they make minimum wage and they do not need an increase. Some of these mental midgets at Fox claim that a decrease in the minimum wage could eliminate unemployment - and yes ... they are serious. Sure, pay them less because the taxpayers will make up the difference.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 5:15pm

Re: Fox News
High ratings does not imply anything about the quality of the item(s) being rated, it simply says that a lot of people watch it.

I realize I am stating the obvious, but someone had to.

Half? You might want to take another look.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 5:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Fox News
What an idiot
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Another Rob, 29 Dec 2014 @ 5:16pm

Re: kool-aid
Cant tell if serious or sarcastic...which says something about liberals.

While Fox news does have what is considered right leaning bias, most of it is on the political opinion sections.

Really, I think that there should not be a 24h news cycle, period.
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JEDIDIAH, 29 Dec 2014 @ 6:21pm

It's time to itemize.
It's time to itemize bills so that everyone knows what's going on. The cable operators could even re-bundle their products so that their bundles match the upstream content bundles.

Put it all back on the broadcasters by airing everyone's dirty laundry.
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JEDIDIAH, 29 Dec 2014 @ 6:24pm

Re: Fox News
Yeah... Half?

The traditional split is 33-33-33 and it's been that way since the beginning. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves.
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Twila Ramsey, 29 Dec 2014 @ 6:39pm

Fox News Dish
To Quote some Lines From Kelly's Heroes:

"Then Make a DEAL."
"What kind of a deal?"
"A DEAL, Deal"...."business is business."
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Mike C. (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 6:47pm

Re: Fox News
Do you even have a clue as to how ratings are generated? An eon ago (10+ tyears) I worked for a competitor to Nielsen but both companies generated their "ratings" the same way. They measure the viewing habits of a relatively small subset of people willing to be monitored. They then "extrapolate" (i.e. half-assed guessing) up to a local market, regional and national "rating". That "half the country" rating could be based on as few as 10,000 households. You read that correctly... your belief that 50,000,000+ HOUSEHOLDS watch Fox News is likely based on the viewing habits of less than 10,000 people. Yeah.... totally reliable...
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 7:44pm

Re: Re: Fox News
You learn something new everyday ... today I learned that one third is equal to one half in Fox Fairyland.
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cc young, 29 Dec 2014 @ 7:52pm

subsidizing the enemy
having cable means having to subsidize fox news. I'd really rather not, thank you.

while cnn and msnbc are perhaps woefully inadequate, inadequacy should not be conflated with purposeful deceit.
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cc young, 29 Dec 2014 @ 7:52pm

subsidizing the enemy
having cable means having to subsidize fox news. I'd really rather not, thank you.

while cnn and msnbc are perhaps woefully inadequate, inadequacy should not be conflated with purposeful deceit.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 7:52pm

Re: Re: Fox News
Statistics has been called many things, half-assed guessing is one of them. Although the guessing in this case is a bit more sophisticated than that of your typical bullshit artist. They attempt to get diverse samples that represent the whole of the viewing public and then perform the magic of statistical analysis whilst waving hands and muttering non sense.

Fox may have a large group of viewers, but it is no where near half the population.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 7:59pm

Re: Re: kool-aid
The fact that you have difficulty ascertaining the veracity of a post ..... says something about liberals. What that something is, exactly, is left to the reader. Did I hear a dog whistle - yes, yes I did.

"While Fox news does have what is considered right leaning bias"
- Capt Under Statement
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Hephaestus (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 8:04pm

Quick Question
If consumers are paying the same amount for less service, why hasn't anyone filed a class action lawsuit for the lost channels?
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Nick (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 8:14pm

Fox News
Yeah, I understand the confusion. Fox news is the 24/7, fox-branded, news-only channel. You were probably thinking of the local fox "affiliate" in your area that is broadcast over the air for free. This channel often has a morning/evening news segment, but also has other shows like Simpsons, Family Guy, etc.

Ironically enough - despite them being free over the air - local channels charge re-broadcasters like Dish a large amount to be able to show these local channels to their subscribers. And implement strict rules on ensuring ONLY the people in the area normally covered by the over-the-air signal can get the rebroadcasted signal from the satellite.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 8:19pm

There is an old Klingon saying:
Only a fool fights in a burning house.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2014 @ 9:33pm

I'm a cord cutter. I don't care if they box each others' ears till all that is left is cauliflower. I am not going to pay higher rates with no benefit. I couldn't find the value in cable prices years ago and it sure hasn't gotten better.

⛔ I expect that if I PAY there will be no commercials on my dime.

⛔ I expect that if I PAY there is something on besides a program geared to the lowest common denominator of moron.

⛔ I expect that if I PAY that there are far, far, fewer reruns because I am financing it for that purpose.

⛔ I expect that if I PAY that there be shows and programs I am interested and looking forward to seeing.

⛔ I expect that if I PAY to get reasonable service when needed because I am paying.

Since none of those were met, I see no value in ever paying for cable tv again.
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ECA (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 9:35pm

Remember
Remember when Broadcast was/is free??
When there were GOOD shows on broadcast..its getting really Crap now..Some reason Broadcast is turning to Cop shows, Judges, repeats of other crap..
This came from a time when CORPS had to setup their OWN broadcast system and relay stations...ALL OVER the country..
It was/is free..

Cable companies TRIED to give a better system, that could hold more stations and give a better selection in the areas..
FAIL. and Failed worse over time..

Other countries setup Satellites.. 1-2 to cover Large areas, and many countries.. For free TV service.
Insted of placing cables all over, or Thousands of Broadcast antennas and relay stations..

So Why pirate?
Watch what you want..
When you want..
Including all the OLD stuff, New Stuff, and Stuff thats not available in the USA..Stuff released FROM USA to other countries, no longer in the USA and you cant watch it..
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got_runs? (profile), 29 Dec 2014 @ 11:37pm

>
Cut that cable and save money. The internet is finally growing into something more than just a porn provider.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 12:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
There are a good number of both psychological and sociological studies that show that Fox "News" is actually less intelligent to watch that children's TV.

It's not that the people sre morons; it's that Fox News is designed to reduce your ability to think critically, and it clearly works.
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Leit, 30 Dec 2014 @ 1:33am

Re: Re: Fox News
And every other news network lies as well, but only Fox provides a right-leaning perspective. All of the others are left-leaning, and tend to push the same condescending or even directly insulting attitude whenever addressing conservative viewpoints that I'm seeing from a lot of the commenters here.

Watching shows that misrepresent and prevaricate on issues that are important to Fox viewers is just as frustrating as it is for you. So Fox it is, until someone else in the industry works out that the left's big weakness is a smug tendency toward seeing themselves as inevitably morally correct and everyone else as fools deserving of mockery.
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notreal, 30 Dec 2014 @ 1:58am

Re: Re: Re: loss of Fox news
Although Fox News is a news organization, one of ther main reasons for their existence is to sell product while deliveirng the news. This is no different from other news orgainztions, or other channels for that matter. This is what the busines is all about. When Jon Stewart's ratings rise, he asks for more money. As Katy Perry's popularity rises, so does the cost of tickets to her concerts. That's what makes Fox "special".

CNN's ratings for example, are not what they used to be; they can no longer command the kind of deals they could in the past. MSNBC has tanked so much they have very little leverage at renegotiation time.

The Simpsons is the longest running prime time show in history. Yet their ratings are not what they once were and the actors were told a season or two ago they actually had to take pay cuts or the show would not be renewed. Cartoon Network stopped buying episodes of Futurama becasue its ratings had fallen so much the network didn't think it was worth what it cost. There are many excellent shows out there that we no longer see for that reason, and converesly that's how come the cast of "Friends" were able to demand vastly higher salaries to come back for those last few years.

That's the way it is. Fox News "deserves" a raise because they continue to deliver higher ratings. Apparently some of the other Fox channels don't do as well, so they can't ask for a lot more money. So what seems to be going on is that Fox wants more for their other less popular channels, but knows they'll be told to take a hike; so they're trying for a subsidy for those channels by witholding Fox News, which a larger audience does want. Essentially what they're saying is that if you want this, you have to also pay more for that.

Happens all the time. To keep big stars happy, studios will create roles or vanity movies for them or their offspring. John Wayne did it, so did Will Smith. The buzz is that "After Earth" was made and starred Jaden Smith in order to keep Will Smith, the box ofice Goliath, happy. Clint Eastwood years ago said that to get the small jazz films made he liked to do during those years, every so often he'd give the studios a Dirty Harry movie.

Essentially, that's what we're seeing here. If Dish wants to keep Fox News, it's going to have to cough up more for Fox's other channels, even though they're already undre contract.

Of course Dish isn't totally blameless, witness how often programing has been pulled just this year (Turner, CBS, etc.).
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 4:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
...it's that Fox News is designed to reduce your ability to think critically, and it clearly works.

Actually, watching FoxNews makes one think even *more* critically. I routinely fact-check much of what is reported on that channel, leading me to learn even more about the particular subject. But, well - that's me..

FWIW - the Fox morning show *does* occasionally have some fun cooking and, during the holidays, gift idea segments. ;)
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JMT (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 5:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
"Get off your (dead) high horse and stop picking on specific news broadcasters..."

In case you missed it, this article is about one specific broadcaster...
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 6:27am

Re: NOT NEWS
"so if you want fake news they are plenty of alternatives"

MSNBC, CNN, HLN, Al Jazeera all come to mind.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 7:55am

Re: if anyone believe's it's Dish's fault - they're idiots.
Your an idiot. Bet you voted for Obama too, didn't you? I guess you can't fix stupid.
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Spaceman Spiff (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 7:57am

Bad because?
"The latest example of this dysfunction is the ongoing feud between Dish Network and Fox News, which resulted in Dish customers losing access to both Fox News Channel and Fox Business Channel roughly a week ago."

And this is bad, why? Fox is a worthless bit of junk that just fills the pockets of Rupert Murdock. I say, leave it off the air. Most Fox watchers will enjoy a sudden boost to their IQ's...
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 8:35am

Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
Of course they would have to ease it in: the inferior minds of Fox "News" viewers would likely be unable to comprehend higher-order concepts such as "facts" and "logic", so I would suggest dumbing it down to a 5th-grade level or so for the first six months.

Hey, 5th-graders are smarter than you think!
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 8:37am

Re: Fox News
And implement strict rules on ensuring ONLY the people in the area normally covered by the over-the-air signal can get the rebroadcasted signal from the satellite.

We can't have Dish paying us to deliver advertising to the wrong people, after all (though I'm guessing it's the network that enforces that, probably local affiliates would love to be viewed by more people).
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 8:38am

Re: The house sinks, or the boat burns
Have that cow buy me a Scotch before he goes. But none for Fox or Dish; for all I care, they can burn. Or drown. Or both.

Perhaps they can drown in burning Scotch.
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 8:42am

Re: Re: Re: Fox News
Yes, other people lie too, so let's watch Fox News, because... logic?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 8:54am

Re: Re: How sad...
I would prefer #5
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 9:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
"I routinely fact-check much of what is reported on that channel, leading me to learn even more about the particular subject."

By Googling other Fox-owned entities like the Wall Street Journal and NY Post?
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Margaret Long, 30 Dec 2014 @ 9:55am

Fox News Blackout......
This is the first time we have ever used dish network...Words can not describe how I am feeling about your company...We have never had such a con put up on us. You lie, To me you are dirt. To drop Fox News is like a train wreck....How do you sleep at night knowing what a dirt bag you are. as soon as possible you will be forever dropped from our household..
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 10:02am

Re: Fox News Blackout......
as soon as possible you will be forever dropped from our household..

You know all the satellite and cable providers do the same thing, right? It's just the luck of the draw whether your provider happens to have a dispute with a channel you like.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 10:07am

Re:
so much wrong in so few words. It hurts.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
This is the AC you replied to responding from another location.

Nope. Reading either WSJ or NYPost for accurate information on current events would be like poking my eyes out with a stick. (I have a rather jaundiced view of news media in general. Just commented re Fox as that was the topic to hand.)
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 11:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
BTW - did I say at any time that I *only* watched Fox?
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Marbran, 30 Dec 2014 @ 11:50am

Laughing at FNC Critics
I love the many Fox News bashers on this site. It is highly likely that not a one of you has ever watched Fox News; you simply parrot what you are told. There is a reason why FNC has the highest ratings 13 years running. If you have watched FNC, and you really don't like it, then you are a lib/prog, so it is understandable why you'd hate it. At least you tried. Everyone else - go back to your silly MSNBC/CNN crap news.
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 12:11pm

Re: Laughing at FNC Critics
There is a reason why FNC has the highest ratings 13 years running.

Nobody is disputing that, but the reason is not high quality news.

Everyone else - go back to your silly MSNBC/CNN crap news.

False dichotomy.
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Rob (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Laughing at FNC Critics
Eloquently stated.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 12:50pm

'carriage fee disputes are akin to a beverage retailer and the White Star Line bickering over Scotch prices at the Titanic bar'

or perhaps an industry that relies on people watching its' media but refuses to offer them how customers want, insisting that customers dont really want the stuff like that, they want it how the industries say. the fact that their is no returning to the 60s, 70s, 80s, or even the 90s is dismissed, because losing millions of customers and dollars doesn't mean the industries are wrong, just that the customers are in a muddle!! what fucking crap!!
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Baron von Robber, 30 Dec 2014 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: if anyone believe's it's Dish's fault - they're idiots.
My Irony-O-Meter is pretty hot to the touch.
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Baron von Robber, 30 Dec 2014 @ 2:43pm

Re: Laughing at FNC Critics
You're not helping your case.

Aim away from your foot first.
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Dislike a Rolling Stone, 30 Dec 2014 @ 2:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
Yes, Rolling Stone is such a reliable and insightful source. Witness their unchecked fake rape story.
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cathy, 30 Dec 2014 @ 3:33pm

Dish is going to regret this stalling the Fox fans are dedicated and will leave dish
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John Fenderson (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 3:42pm

Re: Re: loss of Fox news
"Meanwhile, the viewers lose out in this story"

Meh. Not much of a loss.
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Thomas Berry, 30 Dec 2014 @ 4:00pm

Screw Fox News!!!
I like the Blaze and am now watching NewsMax which is pretty good! Go get some viewers somewhere else Fox! You get us hooked and then hold us hostage....You R wrong! Signed: DishMan that ain't changin!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 4:45pm

Re: Fox News
Agree
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
Yes, one lapse in journalistic thoroughness and the entirety of the publication becomes worthless crap.

I suspect that you think this only applies to the so called liberal media and that conservative media should never be looked upon in this light.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 5:08pm

Re: Re: if anyone believe's it's Dish's fault - they're idiots.
"Your an idiot."

And you call others idiots ... wow.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 5:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: loss of Fox news
Your wall-O-text does little to justify why they deserve a raise.

One could go on forever about how business as usual demands certain things, but no matter how exhausting the excuses are it lacks the rational and the justification for said action(s). "Because I can" does not cut it and neither does "Because it has always been that way". I don't buy it and neither do many others.

Again, high ratings do not equal high quality.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 5:49pm

Re: Again
People do realize corruption is rampant, but lack the means to do much about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 5:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Fox News
"And every other news network lies as well"

- Gee, that makes it ok then.

"Fox provides a right-leaning perspective. All of the others are left-leaning"

- You need to get out more often.

"left's big weakness is a smug tendency"

- Actually, there are several more pressing issues for them and you might have been made aware of these issues had you not buried your head in the ol' Fox Hole. Seriously, look around and you might find good journalism, what have you got to lose?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2014 @ 6:03pm

Re: Laughing at FNC Critics
Interesting how one is labeled a Fox News basher simply because they state a few facts about Fox News.

Why is it highly likely that Fox News bashers have not actually ever watched it? Is this based upon polls or something you pulled out of your ass?

Ok, what is that reason? That fact that many people watch something does not in any way imply that said program is good, truthful, knowledgeable or worthwhile. For example, how many people watch the Kardashians? Yes, I said it ... Fox News is like the Kardashians!
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jack farnsworth, 30 Dec 2014 @ 7:22pm

Re: Fox News
I hope fox 4 news never stops fighting for what most americans believe in. you keep the American people informed as to what our leaders are doing or not doing. Obama has ruined our country and destroyed our constitution and what it stands for what he has done to our religious practices is total unacceptable. if we the American people do not stand up to Obama it will be to late I have a feeling the worst is yet to come.
he has left united states defenseless may god help us and maybe we can put a stop to any more damage that may be caused by Obama actions
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Blake, 30 Dec 2014 @ 9:07pm

To say fox.news watchers are stupid is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. It just proves my point that left wing liberals are the intolerant ones. If you believe in what's right and the truth then you are a "bigot" and whatever else liberals calls us right sided conservatives. The truth hurts and that's why people hate fox.news. If you want to keep believing lies don't watch fox.news. so keep on being "bigoted"
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 10:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Fox News
So Fox it is, until someone else in the industry works out that the left's big weakness is a smug tendency toward seeing themselves as inevitably morally correct and everyone else as fools deserving of mockery.

Don't extremists on both sides do that?
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nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2014 @ 10:55pm

Re: Re: Fox News
what he has done to our religious practices is total unacceptable.

Well that piqued my interest. Exactly how have your personal religious practices changed since Obama took office, and why? I know mine are exactly the same.

he has left united states defenseless

Really, defenseless? We don't have any kind of effective military any more? I would ask where you get your "facts", but you already told us.
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david, 30 Dec 2014 @ 11:05pm

Re: NOT NEWS
they admit not every show in prime time is new hannity and oreally but the channel is 95% news, cnn is closer to 65%. msnbc is 0%
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dickshady, 31 Dec 2014 @ 3:31am

Re: Fox News
Only the Fox Network is over the air. Fox News and Fox Business along with all other Fox programming is by cable or satellite.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2014 @ 5:03am

Re: Re: Fox News
I too would like to read your most thorough analyses leading up to the conclusions stated. Certainly these points you have made can be substantiated in the most concrete manner possible, because they are rather damning accusations which deserve some amount of evidence. Or you could admit it is simply regurgitated GOP/Fox talking points.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2014 @ 5:06am

Re: Re: NOT NEWS
Where did your numbers come?
... yes, I had to ask.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2014 @ 5:10am

Re:
"If you want to keep believing"

If that's what you call it, apparently you do.
The pretzel logic is sort of humorous but is getting old.
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varrelbones, 31 Dec 2014 @ 6:48am

Re: Intervention, not dispute
Idiot
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nasch (profile), 31 Dec 2014 @ 7:07am

Re: Re: Re: NOT NEWS
Where did your numbers come?
... yes, I had to ask.

This just in: Fox News rules and MSNBC drools*.

* source: Fox News
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Baron von Robber, 31 Dec 2014 @ 8:04am

I've always taken the "Fox viewers are stupid" with a grain of salt, but then the Foxies posting here keep taking away my grain of salt. :(
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2014 @ 9:08am

Re:
No there are not on free air
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Anonymously yours, 31 Dec 2014 @ 10:32am

Re: How sad...
Too bad you liberal half wits can't see what's going on before your very liberal eyes. You should have watched something besides MSNBC and Cnn to get a clue Your country is being destroyed right in front of you.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2014 @ 12:05pm

Nobody actually watches MSNBC or CNN, assuming that people must watch MSNBC or CNN is one of those bizarre things Fox News fans mention alot, most liberals I know get there news from John Stewart or John Oliver(actual comedy shows) and whatever buzzfeed/salon article bounced around on facebook.

In general informed people(of either party) follow a multitude of blogs from people that have similiar views on some issues they find important, and pull from a variety of news sources and are pretty good at parsing out fact from speculation in a story and can use a combination of sites with different views to put together their view in their own head.

Pretty much all big media is drive-by media(I'm including Fox here) where they just sit on a big story and roll over it for views fact checking is optional and often means wasting time you could be getting views. The main reason I do prefer Fox over the other main stream news when I do have to watch something in a bar, is they have a much much lower tendency of looping the same 5 stories on a 15 minute loop that gives me normally just enough details to throw it on google. Meanwhile Fox normally tend to have multiple hour shows where a host will sit on 2-3 issues and give at least 15-20 minutes of wild speculation mixed with some facts. So not only do you get an hour loop instead of 15 the hosts may decide to focus on different stories or hop on different trains of speculation.
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nasch (profile), 31 Dec 2014 @ 12:29pm

Re:
The main reason I do prefer Fox over the other main stream news when I do have to watch something in a bar,

Your description makes me think it would be better to pull out the phone and play SimCity BuildIt.
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Szumi, 31 Dec 2014 @ 3:58pm

Re: Re: How sad...
Better add, drop ESPN, use the saving to keep Fox and send me the refund?
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dennis teel, 31 Dec 2014 @ 5:02pm

dish,fox news,,etc
I can't believe that anyone would seriously claim that online(internet) new,especially via blogs are accurate and truthful accounts of the news and expert journalism as compared to network broadcast news as in FNC etc...to seriously claim that you actually believe the internet media over broadcast network media is proof of authentic stupidity...the internet media is less reputable than all of the network news broadcasts combined.good grief!!
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jan 2015 @ 11:21am

Re: dish,fox news,,etc
You forgot the sarcasm tag
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Agonistes, 2 Jan 2015 @ 5:02pm

Re: Fox News Dish
Always with the negative waves, Moriarty. (ie Capt. Stubing)
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Luke, 3 Jan 2015 @ 6:09pm

Re: Quick Question
1.I---Changes in Services Offered. We may add, delete, rearrange and/or change any and all programming, programming packages and other Services that we offer, as well as the prices and fees related to such programming, programming packages and Services, at any time, including without limitation, during any term commitment period to which you have agreed. If a change affects you, we will notify you of such change and its effective date. In the event that we delete, rearrange or change any programming, programming packages or other Services, we have no obligation to replace or supplement such programming, programming packages or other Services. You are not entitled to any refund because of a deletion, rearrangement or change of any programming, programming packages or other Services.
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Rob (profile), 3 Jan 2015 @ 8:48pm

Re: Re: Quick Question
OK - So I'll watch what I want to watch by changing providers
:-)
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Don Wiles, 5 Jan 2015 @ 5:58pm

Charlie Ergen, who is your customer? The viewer or the vendor?
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ken williams, 6 Jan 2015 @ 7:16am

fox bullshit
this bullshit is pissing me off with fox and dish when are both going to grow up and get this dun
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steve, 6 Jan 2015 @ 9:01am

as always we are the used it is to bad the company's are never satisfied with the growth of their product and we get to pay I got dish for fox news and a few others but the rest is junk So nothing is in the favor of us and we have to take what is dished out to us Dish put Fox back on !!!!!
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T Gloc, 10 Jan 2015 @ 6:07pm

Dish Fox Feud
After many years with Dishnetwork I cancelled my service as a result of the on-going feud with Fox.
Dish never once attempted to contact their customer base and offer compensation. I initiated calls, and during one call asked a "supervisor", why they had not done so. The person stated, they had no way to do so! She sure tried back peddling when I pointed out, they somehow manage to contact customers re billing!

TG
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DCG, 12 Jan 2015 @ 8:36am

Re: Re: Re: Quick Question
you can drop dish, and get cable or direct tv only to have the same problem when another channels contract is up. Fox calls itself the most watched CABLE news network. they are not available over the air, but ONLY on cable or satellite. fox should be paying dish to broadcast the channel instead of the other way around which only results in a $200 subscriber bill each month. dish, direct tv and all the cable cos. should inform fox they no longer wish to broadcast the channels, and unless fox pays there will be no more fox news!!!!!!!!!!!
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George Renna, 13 Jan 2015 @ 12:20pm

fox/dish dispute
it is amazing that there is no real info on how long this stupid dispute will last! Fox and Dish will both lose in the end, Dish your customers pay a lot of money for WHAT! Fox you need to get this done or you also could lose viewers!
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nasch (profile), 13 Jan 2015 @ 12:44pm

Re: fox/dish dispute
Fox and Dish will both lose in the end

Dish might lose a few customers, but they'll both end up getting paid more for doing the same thing as before. If that's losing, sign me up.
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liberal idiots, 13 Jan 2015 @ 4:12pm

Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
IQ's will only go up if they drop cnn and msnbc, not fox.
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nasch (profile), 13 Jan 2015 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Intervention, not dispute
IQ's will only go up if they drop cnn and msnbc, not fox.

Ah, what a hilarious riposte! You have surely demonstrated your superior intellect with that one.
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notreal, 15 Jan 2015 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: loss of Fox news
Let me make it real simple for you.

Deliver more goods (i.e. ratings), you're worth more.

Top salesman make more than average salesman. This is true with actors, doctors, artists, musicians, business, etc. That's the way the free market works, which is much better than some bureaucrat who has no familiarity with the operations arbitrarily assigning a value.

As you say, high ratings do not equal high "quality" (and who defines "quality"?), but that's irrelevant to the situation at hand. If consumers were willing to pay more for quality, among 2013 movies, "Jackass Presents" wouldn't have made 80% more money than "12 Years a Slave", and "Fast and Furious 6" wouldn't have made almost 4 1/4 times as much.
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Trou, 3 Feb 2015 @ 9:04am

Access to Online Content
If I have access to online content via internet connection from my phone, why hasn't a company come up with television content via internet? Why do I need a provider for Internet, a provider for cable, and a provider for content? I want to bypass the middle guys, pay one fee (the internet connection) and watch whatever I want. You can only watch one program at a time anyway. I was suckered into Dish using a promotion to give me a $200 gift card if I signed up for two years. After never receiving it, I contacted the BBB and Dish called me to say it was mailed out a month ago. But what I've learned in this is that they're desparate probably because someone has already figured out how to bypass them. I'd like to know how.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Feb 2015 @ 9:13am

Re: dish,fox news,,etc
True but in capitalist society it can always get better
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nasch (profile), 3 Feb 2015 @ 9:47am

Re: Access to Online Content
If I have access to online content via internet connection from my phone, why hasn't a company come up with television content via internet? ...I want to bypass the middle guys...

That's why.
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MK, 12 Feb 2015 @ 10:08am

FOX News vs. Dish
"The net IQ of Dish subscribers will only go up without Fox"

Idiotic comment by a person who probably never even watched FOX News, and is a card-carrying leftist.
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Burton H. Bosan III, 21 Apr 2015 @ 7:30am

Freedom of choice
For those of us that do not want to see,support hear any of Fox "News" we should have that choice. Period. Every other discussion about the merits of Fox News is irrelevant.
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