Looks Like CIA's 'Torture Revealed Osama's Courier' Story Now Even More False Than Previously Believed

from the making-it-up-as-we-go-along dept

Tue, May 12th 2015 11:37am — Mike Masnick

For quite some time now, there have been serious questions about how how the US was able to track down Osama bin Laden's "hiding place" to send in special forces to kill him. The story many people have heard was that the CIA was able to identify the "courier" who was used to help bin Laden communicate with the outside world, and then used that info to figure out where he was. And, a big part of that story -- especially as immortalized in the movie Zero Dark Thirty -- was that the CIA's torture program was instrumental in revealing that information. However, even before the big Senate Intelligence Committee study on the torture program was released, it was revealed that the torture program had nothing to do with identifying the courier, known as Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

However, as you may have heard over the weekend, Seymour Hersh published a somewhat epic story, arguing that almost everything about the bin Laden killing was a lie, and a bunch of stories -- including everything about al-Kuwaiti -- were made up after the fact. Hersh's story is well worth reading (as are some of the criticisms of it that question some of the details). But one key aspect of the report is that finding a courier had absolutely nothing to do with finding bin Laden. Instead, it was a so-called "walk in" -- a Pakistani intelligence official who knew that Pakistan already had captured bin Laden -- who reached out to the US, seeking the $25 million reward for information leading to bin Laden's whereabouts.

In other words, even the Senate's torture report gets the story wrong completely. In the Senate report, the identifying of al-Kuwaiti came from traditional interrogation, rather than the torture part. The CIA's response was basically that it was the torture part (the bad cop) that enabled the information to come out separately (good cop). But Hersh's report says the whole courier story is made up whole cloth. While some have questioned the details of Hersh's report, there's now independent verification from other sources to NBC that bin Laden was actually found via a "walk-in," rather than the courier (warning: stupid NBC autoplay video at that link).

In Hersh's version, the plan had been to kill bin Laden, and later (perhaps weeks later) come up with a story saying bin Laden had been killed by a drone strike. A few things went wrong -- including one of the US helicopters famously crashing, and there was enough buzz that the US rushed to publicly announce the killing, including Obama's famous speech that, apparently, created havoc since it messed up a bunch of previously agreed to things about how the killing would be presented, and was done without first clearing it with the intelligence community. This resulted in the CIA being rushed in to concoct some cover stories, and some CIA officials quickly realized that this would be a fantastic way to pretend that torture had been useful:

Gates also objected to the idea, pushed by Brennan and Leon Panetta, that US intelligence had learned of bin Laden’s whereabouts from information acquired by waterboarding and other forms of torture. ‘All of this is going on as the Seals are flying home from their mission. The agency guys know the whole story,’ the retired official said. ‘It was a group of annuitants who did it.’ (Annuitants are retired CIA officers who remain active on contract.) ‘They had been called in by some of the mission planners in the agency to help with the cover story. So the old-timers come in and say why not admit that we got some of the information about bin Laden from enhanced interrogation?’ At the time, there was still talk in Washington about the possible prosecution of CIA agents who had conducted torture.

‘Gates told them this was not going to work,’ the retired official said. ‘He was never on the team. He knew at the eleventh hour of his career not to be a party to this nonsense. But State, the agency and the Pentagon had bought in on the cover story. None of the Seals thought that Obama was going to get on national TV and announce the raid. The Special Forces command was apoplectic. They prided themselves on keeping operational security.’ There was fear in Special Operations, the retired official said, that ‘if the true story of the missions leaked out, the White House bureaucracy was going to blame it on the Seals.’

In Hersh's version of the story... the courier never even existed (bin Laden was actually pretty cut off from everything). He also notes that there was no firefight at the compound, since the Pakistanis had planned out the whole thing and made sure that no one was guarding bin Laden. But the US made up the idea of a firefight so that it could "kill off" the courier, al-Kuwaiti, who never really existed:

There was another reason to claim there had been a firefight inside the compound, the retired official said: to avoid the inevitable question that would arise from an uncontested assault. Where were bin Laden’s guards? Surely, the most sought-after terrorist in the world would have around-the-clock protection. ‘And one of those killed had to be the courier, because he didn’t exist and we couldn’t produce him. The Pakistanis had no choice but to play along with it.’

In other words, if true, not only did the torture not produce the courier, there was no courier at all. And the whole debate about whether or not Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Hassan Ghul gave up information on al-Kuwaiti during torture efforts or during regular interrogations is entirely meaningless. The whole thing was fiction, invented after the fact. For what it's worth, there were other stories concerning the torture program that seem equally bizarre in retrospect, if Hersh's story is true. Take this Daily Beast article about al-Kuwaiti, in which it claims that one guy was interrogated, and denied ever hearing of al-Kuwaiti:

Shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, detainees told CIA interrogators about an especially important courier who went by the name Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti. A series of subsequent interrogations, including one of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, confirmed the courier's importance. In 2004, al Qaeda operative Hassan Ghul revealed that the courier was close to Faraj al-Libi, who replaced Mohammed as al Qaeda's operational commander after Mohammed's arrest. A year later, al-Libi himself was captured, and he protested so adamantly that he'd never heard of al-Kuwaiti that the CIA took it as further evidence that he was their man.

Either way, the idea that torture had anything to do with anything is growing progressively weaker... and yet, we still have people defending the torture program, and no one is ever likely to be punished legally for it.

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Filed Under: abu ahmed al-kuwaiti, cia, isi, lies, osama bin laden, pakistan, seymour hersh, torture, torture report, walk in, waterboarding, zero dark thirty

44 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 11:41am

We've always been at war with Eastasia
Lies to bolster lies.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 11:54am

Nothing new here
I think its more a sign of the times that anyone could believe anything said now by this administration or the previous two for that matter. Lies have always spiraled around the politisphere, however the Clintoon presidency raised it to a public performance art form where bush used it to his advantage and where Obama has polished that nob relentlessly.

The approval ratings of all 3 of these turds are proof that shit can be stacked pretty damn high.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 11:55am

People are punished for torture all over the world regularly. I have been tortured and it isn't as clear cut as it used to be. There are measures designed to save a persons life because a war criminal is attempting to slip something through and there is legal combat that can be done with the same technology used to torture. I don't know where I would draw the line now that I have been so thoughly aquainted with their torture techniques.

It's also possible that many things happened at once in Pakistan and not everyone is aware of every other person's life story.
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Morgan Wick, 12 May 2015 @ 12:05pm

Everyone and their mother finds Hersh's story laughable, but never let the facts get in the way of anything that supports your own agenda!
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themonkeyking145 (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 12:06pm

Just Saying...
Several other places I've read about Hersh's story point out something you glossed over: many are uncertain of the veracity of this set of events, since many if not all of his sources are anonymous. Apparently, he's had a habit in recent years of publishing sensational stories with little or no identified corroboration. So, it's not so much that some are questioning a few details so much as some are questioning the entire story.

I'm not saying I know for certain the events presented in Hersh's article are untrue, nor am I saying that torture is a good thing. But a slightly strong proviso about Hersh's more recent activities would lend credence to what you're saying. At least for me.
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Anon, 12 May 2015 @ 12:08pm

The other story
the story I heard, from third hand was the courier story - they knew who the courier was and that he was likely important, and that he was always on the road when his satellite phone was turned on. they knew who it was because he also called family in Saudi Arabia.

But none of this odd-looking-white-guys-trying-tail-jeep-in-Pakistan story. In fact, the courier butt-dialed OSB's location. Apparently the sat phone they were watching came on for a minute, transmitted its GPS coordinates to the satellite, then turned off. the courier or someone did an oops, and this drew attention to the compound.

I don't buy the Hersh story. Who is this Pakistani? Some guy sold out his country for $25M and nobody's advertising it for good or bad? The blogger near the Abbotobad compound complained about helicopters circling noisily for a long time, hardly the case if you're trying to fake a drone strike. If there's nobody armed, why have a bear in the air circling? Why so much firepower going off? There would be no need to fake a firefight. Do we really think that OSB could hide with full knowledge of Pakistani hierarchy and nobody said a word for 10 years? Really? Do you really think the Pakistanis could persuade all OSB's home-grown security to walk away so he's unguarded? Also, the guy was running a guerilla cam 10 years earlier - how decrepit could he be at age 54? Do you think you could fake "drone strike in tribal lands" without the whole tribal saying "you full of crap"? how would you convince the world it happened? Would they plan to lock up OSB's widows and kids for a few decades to avoid the truth coming out?

The whole Hersh story stinks. Is this an attempt to rehabilitate Paki intelligence for the benefit of Republicans?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 12:15pm

"Where were bin Laden’s guards?"

Wouldn't a highly guarded compound be a dead giveaway? If not Bin Laden, then for something else?

More guards means more traffic back and forth. More food and other supplies needed. More shopping, more deliveries. The idea here was to hide. Not make a stand. Wouldn't all of that be noticed from the most basic of air/satellite surveillance?

This story will forever be spun however the teller wants to tell it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 12:18pm

The new Bin Laden 'story' is bunk
"Instead, it was a so-called "walk in" -- a Pakistani intelligence official who knew that Pakistan already had captured bin Laden -- who reached out to the US, seeking the $25 million reward for information leading to bin Laden's whereabouts."

That right there is why I don't believe that whole story. Do you really think Al Qaeda would have kept quiet for years that their #1 leader was captured but not dead?

I mean it's not like Al Qaeda doesn't have any social media presence. They often upload youtube videos from time to time, including videos recorded by Bin Laden himself.

And then there's all the Navy Seals involved in the raid. Don't you think one of them would have spoken up much sooner if this whole tale was true? Including the guy who wrote the book about the raid, without the administrations approval?

This alternate story simply doesn't make any sense, period. And I say that as someone who doesn't believe that torture helped at finding Bin Laden either. If there was any truth to this new spin on Bin Laden's 'capture' and death word of it would have leaked out years sooner to the public.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 12:26pm

Re: Just Saying...
Several other places I've read about Hersh's story point out something you glossed over: many are uncertain of the veracity of this set of events, since many if not all of his sources are anonymous

We mentioned that clearly in the story -- but noting that NBC confirmed the "walk-in" part of the story from other sources, and that's all that we're really talking about here.
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Spaceman Spiff (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 12:35pm

Can you believe the CIA?
The CIA specializes in disinformation (lying). If you believe anything that any agent or officer of the agency says, you are a fool! Just look at Clapper if you want proof of that!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 12:37pm

Re: Nothing new here
"I think its more a sign of the times that anyone could believe anything said now by this administration or the previous two for that matter. Lies have always spiraled around the politisphere"

One thing that has proven true over and over, is that no matter how many times the government has been caught lying, people will always believe that THIS TIME is different and everything they're being told by the government is 100% true. And if not, then the people just need a bit more fear pressed into them, since there's nothing like fear -- of something, anything terrible, real or imaginary -- to make people more compliant, obedient, and trusting to the government.

Governments, even elected ones, always tend to develop a narcissist culture, and as such, regard the people who they supposedly serve under as being inferiors unworthy of the truth. So don't trust anything the government ever says, especially concerning war. But be discrete about it, or be ready to get branded an unpatriotic traitor, or worse
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 1:03pm

Re: The new Bin Laden 'story' is bunk
"And then there's all the Navy Seals involved in the raid."

Well, just to add more mystery to everything...the majority of the SEAL team ended up getting killed in an unprotected helicopter flight shortly after the raid. Seemed suspicious then but under this new story it won't be long before people say they were silenced to keep the narrative.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 1:12pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act shouldn't have been allowed to expire....
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 1:14pm

"Torture works".
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 1:46pm

So the book the Navy Seal wrote about the raid (No Easy Day by Mark Owen) is entirely made up.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 2:29pm

So the Obama administration lied?
In other news, the sky is blue.
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Anon, 12 May 2015 @ 2:32pm

Re: Re: The new Bin Laden 'story' is bunk
Seriously?

>the majority of the SEAL team ended up getting killed in an unprotected helicopter flight shortly after the raid

Now the USA is killing it's own highly trained elite force to hide a story about whether the team shot him in a fire-fight or executed him?

You've been watching too many Bourne movies.

OSB wouldn't have a squad of guards (since if the jig is up, 100 guards wouldn't be enough). He would have 2 or 3 guys with guns helping out, running errands, etc.

Plus, I don't buy that Pakistani intelligence would have the guy arrested and not make hay while the sun shines by turning him over, public or secret. Plus, why the whole "doctor trying to get blood sample with fake vaccination" story? Whoever put together and vetted that story surely knew the shit-storm and danger to medical workers it would create. Why make it up? Why have your friendly doctor arrested and charged by the local government if he's an asset?

Sorry, Hersh - too many stupid loose ends. I would more likely buy that given 10 years and unlimited NSA resources, eventually they caught a slip-up by the courier.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 3:15pm

Re:
...So the book the Navy Seal wrote about the raid (No Easy Day by Mark Owen) is entirely made up...

I would trust even an edited book by any SpecOp warrior over questionable journalism any day.
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Mason Wheeler (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 4:20pm

Re: Re: The new Bin Laden 'story' is bunk
Don't believe everything you hear.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 4:26pm

Supporting Evidence?
Then there's this
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 4:27pm

That didn't work...

http://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/pakistan/it-was-brig-khalid-who-tipped-cia-about-osama-bin-laden-759/
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 5:02pm

Osama bin Laden died multiple times since 2001.
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yankinwaoz (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 5:06pm

Split the difference?
Perhaps there is a kernel of trust to the claims. But Hersh's story exaggerates and extrapolates one small detail. However, it doesn't change the core facts.

It is very obvious that ISI was hosting OBL in Pakistan. They didn't arrest him. He was their protected guest.

It is pretty clear that the raid did happen as described. And it is pretty clear that Pakistan did not learn about it until after it happened.

It is also obvious that OBL had a trusted courier network. OBL was involved with al Quaida while living in the compound. Yet he manged to avoid detection via signals monitoring and spies. He had to relay everything through a courier.

So that only leaves the question of how the US learned of his location.

The walk-in ISI agent selling the information to the US is plausible. Learning of and monitoring the courier is another plausible explanation.

A rouge ISI agent could have sold the info about the courier. And the torture claim was just a cover to protect the agent. I think that this is the detail that was blown up into a new narrative by Hersh.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 6:52pm

Re:
Yep... that's one way to get a drone chasing you...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 8:22pm

as time goes by i believe less and less. don't even believe myself anymore.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2015 @ 8:52pm

Why was Osama bin Laden killed instead of captured and interrogated for information? It makes absolutely no sense to kill the head of Al-Qaeda, instead of pumping him for information and then having him stand trial publicly.

This leads me to believe Osama bin Laden knew something that somebody didn't want getting out.
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orbitalinsertion (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 10:47pm

Re: Re: Nothing new here
More so, plenty will insist that things are true, whether or not they really believe them - assuming they ever look at themselves or anything else deeply enough for questioning instead of belief. If it suits their beliefs or their agenda, it's "true".
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MrTroy (profile), 12 May 2015 @ 10:52pm

At the time, there was still talk in Washington about the possible prosecution of CIA agents who had conducted torture.

Anyone know who/what to FOIA to get at these documents?
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twinkiekat (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:02am

Re: The other story
There are already other journalists corroborating Hersh's reporting. Do some research before you start disparaging one of the most brilliant journalists of the last two centuries.
The walk in was revealed to be Brigadier Usman Khalid.
How the hell can Hersh reveal his sources, haven't you heard of Jeffrey Sterling and James Risen?
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David, 13 May 2015 @ 1:06am

Re: Nothing new here
I think its more a sign of the times that anyone could believe anything said now by this administration or the previous two for that matter.

So we have an agency inventing fantasy stories in order to let some psychopaths continue torturing and killing people without retribution and with government officials applauding their actions.

Big deal. Madison has been dead and rotten so long now that his grave will not be noticeably disturbed by him turning in it.

The actual problem with that is that you really cannot dismiss any conspiracy theories out of hand any more. Like 9/11 having been orchestrated by the CIA in order to get an unprecedented expansion of their powers. Do you really want to claim that this would be something they'd never do?

There is no such thing as "that's absurd" any more: you really have to make a proper investigation to dismiss even the most absurd claims. Like the U.S. government handing drug traffickers wagonloads of automated weapons that are not being accounted for. Wait, that one was true.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:55am

Re: Re: Nothing new here
We have become death and death serves conscience. Are we not conscious? I believe we are lost.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 2:02am

Re: Re: Just Saying...
In this day of parallel construction do you not believe in your heart of hearts that this could not all be a fabrication? I mean the original yarn as well as this one.

We will never know the truth: about so many things.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 2:09am

Re: Re: The new Bin Laden 'story' is bunk
We're not to know the truth.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 2:17am

Re:
Interesting but it seems to be the source of this whole thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 2:19am

Re: Split the difference?
Again, we are not meant to know the facts that lead to the outcome and we never will.
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Padpaw (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 8:44am

funny how the entire seal team that took part in killing Osama were led into a trap and killed off before they could possibly contradict the official story of what happened.
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Padpaw (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 8:48am

Re: Nothing new here
there is a reason why all 3 have been charged with war crimes by the international criminal court. Though I doubt that will make the mainstream news any decade soon
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Padpaw (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 8:51am

Re: The other story
compared to the current corrupt and openly deceitful governments version.

Should we believe people that we know lie to our faces to benefit themselves at the expense of countless liberties and rights lost in the name of security or someone that is known to lie to benefit himself
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Padpaw (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 8:54am

Re: Re: Split the difference?
much like the Nuremburg trials all the dirty corrupt secrets will come out in the end as the roaches turn on each other to save themselves from the gallows
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 10:23am

Re: Re:
Why is that? I see no reason to think that either of those is more trustworthy than the other.
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 10:25am

Re: Re: Re: Split the difference?
Nothing even remotely resembling the Nuremburg trials will ever occur unless the US stops being a major military power.
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 10:28am

Re:
Pretty much everything about the killing of bin Laden looks sketchy as hell. There is no question in my mind that something is being covered up. However, I see no strong indication of exactly what it is that's being covered up. There are many equally plausible hypotheses.
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KeillRandor (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 9:26pm

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/13/what-pakistan-knew-about-the-bin-laden-raid-seymour-hersh/
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Pragmatic, 14 May 2015 @ 6:17am

Re: Re:
I can't wait to see stories in the gutter press about seeing Bin Laden working in Burger King, or something./tinfoil
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