France Takes Its War On Uber Up A Notch: Arrests Top Execs
from the because-that'll-stop-innovation dept
Last week, we noted some bizarre happenings in France, as taxi drivers unwilling to compete against Uber decided to stage a "protest" which actually looked a lot more like a riot. They overturned Uber cars, held passengers and drivers hostage and lit fires around the country. You might think that this updated version of Luddites smashing machines would lead to a similar result -- getting laughed at and confined to the dustbins of history. But, this is France we're talking about. Politicians quickly ordered a crackdown on Uber including ordering law enforcement to seize the cars of Uber drivers.And, that's not all. Now it's being reported that two of Uber's top French execs have been arrested.
The pair are believed to be Thibault Simphal,the director general of Uber France and Pierre-Dimitri Gore-Coty,the directorgeneral of Uber Europe.We had noted, earlier this year, that French law enforcement had raided Uber's offices in Paris, but still. "Inciting illegal employment?" Are they serious? Has anyone looked at the unemployment rate in France lately?
According to BFM TV the pair are being investigated for "inciting illegal employment", with the Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve having already suggested that the pair's insistence on rolling out UberPop was effectively encouraging individuals to break the law.
Cazeneuve continues his role as the cartoonish villain in all of this, making statements that are absolutely bizarre:
"I have given instructions, considering the grave problems with public order and the development of this illegal activity, to the police prefecture in Paris to ban UberPop activities," said Cazeneuve last Thursday.First of all, "illicit transportation of people?" These are people who want to go somewhere and are happy about the options they have. Why should that be "illicit"?
Cazeneuve also pointed out that Uber could be guilty of the crime of "illicit transportation of people" under article 40 of the penal code, that could be punished by two years in prison and a €300,000.
Second the "grave problems with the public order" are not because of Uber, but because taxi drivers are flipping cars. Why does Cazeneuve not seem even remotely concerned about that?
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Filed Under: arrests, bernard cazeneuve, france, illegal employment, unemployment
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Time to Revolt
Not hat the USA does much better, but we aren't theb bad (yet).
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Re: Time to Revolt
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Re: Time to Revolt
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Simple. The logic goes as follows; The drivers aren't licensed to be taxi drivers, they drive people for payment so they are taxi drivers, ergo they are transporting people illicitly.
I expect the same thing to happen where I live seeing the amount of work they've (that is the government) have put into licensing and regulating of taxis.
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Uber believes it's drivers can get by with a tourism vehicle license since they don't respond to street hailing and thus are only doing pre-booked arrangements (which that tourism license allows).
While that is the letter of the law the intention was a license for for example drivers of buses for arranged excursions.
This is what the French government is reacting on.
The taxi drivers are reacting since their license and all rules and regulations that come with it are vastly more expensive then the one that Uber uses. Which is undercutting their business.
I don't know how this is going to be ruled on since Uber is skirting dangerously close to the edge of the law and seeing how that France tries to protect its own industries.
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If the French have a loophole like that in their legislation, FIX IT. Don't pre-emptively declare it illegal after realising it is a loophole, don't start jailing people for violating laws they took great care to follow.
Skirting the edge of the law is remaining legal! Its the only way most corporate heads avoid tax evasion laws >.>
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Taxi license costs
This is what always gets me. The taxi drivers are all upset at Uber and not upset at the local government charging outrageous costs for taxi licenses. They go, locally, for about $300k - $800k / year (there is an auction on them). This seems insane.
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Re: Taxi license costs
I assume they don't want the government to lower the barriers to entry and thus increase competition. They want the government to keep the barriers in place because they've already gotten past them. The problem (to them) is not that the cost of entry is high, since they've already paid that cost, but that other people aren't being forced to pay the same cost of entry that they did.
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Re: Re: Taxi license costs
The whole regulatory scheme was corrupted from the start.
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I'm not against people pointing out Uber has a shakey legal position, but WHY do the comments always attack Uber without noting the 'legal' services took to rioting?
If you think soaring employment rates and beneficial services are no excuse for flouting regulation, fine. That is a rational, reasonable argument to make. Many industries rely on regulation for many beneficial reasons, entrenched industries aside.
BUT facing unfair competition is no excuse to go out and RIOT. This isn't the poor regulated industry being bullied by a rebel upstart anymore, this is a bratty, violent, entitled temper tantrum that put people at risk! Seriously, I want to hear what, if any, implications for the cabbies came about from THEIR behavior.
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French unions
The french unions are legendary even in Europe for their unchecked power. They also seem to be constantly getting upset about something.
There wont be any implications for the cabbies.. None whatsoever.
Its almost the opposite here in the UK, just across the channel, where the unions have been broken so badly they are basically pointless.
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Willingly and persistently being a foreigner?
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Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
2nd, it's UBER WHICH IS CRIMINAL in its "business model".
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Re: Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
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Re: Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
It helps to spell out what laws were broken, otherwise you look like you're making stuff up.
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Re: Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
Just leave your manifesto on the table by the door.
On your way out.
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Re: Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
2nd, what is CRIMINAL about the business MODEL? Please enlighten us.
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Re: Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
And here I was thinking that independent contractors have always been included in employment statistics. Silly me...
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Entrapment, French-Style
2) Arrest anyone who uses them for "illicit transportation of people."
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The moral of the story
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Uber is a Taxi company; not a software plTfoem
But if you do that 40+ hours a week, it's for damned sure you're working as a taxi - NOT "sharing."
In reality, Uber is nothing more than an innovative way to dispatch cabs and at the same time - because the drivers are classified as "independent contractors" - an innovative way to screw the drivers out of minimum wage, overtime, social security and unemployment.
Uber is a fraud. They deserve everything they're getting.
Way to go France!
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Re: Uber is a Taxi company; not a software plTfoem
Which taxi drivers are not independent contractors? Whenever I've taken a taxi (which admittedly isn't that often), it's been pretty clearly posted that the cab is leased to the driver, making the driver an independent contractor. There may well be legitimate criticisms of Uber, and this may be one of them, but this doesn't distinguish them from legacy cabs as far as I can see.
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Re: Uber is a Taxi company; not a software plTfoem
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Re: Uber is a Taxi company; not a software plTfoem
So what? Are you saying independent contractors don't have a job? Why aren't they all listed as being unemployed then?
"In reality, Uber is nothing more than an innovative way to dispatch cabs..."
How amazing would it be if the taxi companies realized that and started to actually compete.
"...because the drivers are classified as "independent contractors" - an innovative way to screw the drivers out of minimum wage, overtime, social security and unemployment. "
You seem to have completely forgotten that a huge percentage of the workforce in most (all?) countries fall under that exact definition. Why aren't you defending them too?
"Uber is a fraud."
That word does not mean what you think it means.
"They deserve everything they're getting."
By "everything" do you include Uber drivers and innocent members of the public being physically threatened and terrorized by violent taxi drivers? Do they all deserve that too?
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"illegal employment"?
So what is that definition? Is it the same that US companies flaunt such that they classify a person as a contractor rather than an employee? Guess what: there have been (and may still be) US taxi companies that do the same thing!
Can they get away with that? Not always: both the IRS and the Department of Labor do go after companies that do it wrong. This is one of the key areas that Uber's (and other's) business model needs debate and clarification. And possibly new or revised laws and regulations.
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Re: "illegal employment"?
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EXPANDED FOR CLICKS! -- Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
2nd, it's UBER WHICH IS CRIMINAL in its "business model" of exploiting the poor during high unemployment and getting them to make capital investments of providing car.
3rd, Uber is a business and subject to regulations of the country it's in: American notions don't apply.
4th, Masnick yet again sounds ignorant of law and contemtuous of the very notion that it applies equally even to his precious "innovators".
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Re: EXPANDED FOR CLICKS! -- Masnick always for "illegal". -- And it's not employment, remember? They're "independent contractors"!
The Minister is just upset that the Taxi lobby is losing money and Uber isn't paying for his party's political campaigns.
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The Goober software service should be considered nothing more than a brokerage firm. Similar to how transportation brokers work in the trucking industry for hauling freight.
Goober is the broker, and should only be allowed to charge a percentage for setting up the deal between the drivers and the clients. Yet the drivers can set their own rates, just like owner operators in the trucking industry.
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Person breaks law, person gets arrested, news at 11
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Some people break law, get arrested. Others break law, police look the other way
If you're going to say that Uber needs to be punished for 'openly defying a law', then you'd better be calling for the cabbies to be punished for doing the same, unless you're going to try and claim that running a ferrying services is a more serious crime than torching vehicles and therefor deserves harsher punishment.
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Because as every other member of the political profession, his corruption forces him to align with the statu quo and protect it at all cost.
Oh, and France is xenophobic to it's core and therefore anything that comes from outside the country is evil and needs to be fought.
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Signed: French Cab Driver
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Ban it
He can just unilaterally decide something is illegal? Serious question - is that how the French government works?
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