Proposed Hungarian Law Would Allow Government To Suspend Key Human Rights Whenever There Is A 'Terror Threat Situation'
from the please-see-government-for-definition-of-'terror-threat-situation' dept
Techdirt has reported how many Western governments are playing on fears of vaguely-defined "terror" to push through laws limiting fundamental freedoms that would never otherwise have been discussed, much less approved. Amnesty International is warning that Hungary is aiming to join the club -- and go much, much further down this slippery slope:
A draft proposal to combat terrorism, apparently authored by the Hungarian government and leaked in mid-January, recommends amendments to the Constitution and to several laws to streamline the process to call a state of emergency in the country. If adopted in its current form, the proposal would have profoundly negative consequences for human rights in Hungary, including the freedoms of expression, assembly, association, and movement, and the rights to privacy and security of person. The current proposal, referred to as the "sixth amendment", devolves near absolute power on the executive in a so-called "terror threat situation," the result of which would be a full frontal assault on human rights and the rule of law.
As Amnesty International's more detailed analysis of the so-called "sixth amendment" to the country's constitution explains, the "emergency measures" available during a very vague "terror threat situation" would give the Hungarian authorities wide-ranging and almost unchallengeable powers (pdf), including:
Blanket permission to introduce undefined "special counter-terrorism measures"
Amnesty notes that the proposed legislation would almost certainly fail the test of necessity and proportionality required to comply with Hungary’s obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. But something tells me that a government awarding itself near-totalitarian powers probably wouldn't be too worried by a slap on the wrist from a bunch of human rights judges in some distant court.
Complete government control over procurement of goods and services, including over supply lines
Restrictions on the movement of foreign nationals, including refusal to enter the territory, despite Hungary's existing obligations under international law
Arbitrary restrictions on movement (including obligatory reporting requirements) for foreign nationals already lawfully present in the territory
Enhanced stop and search powers
Enhanced asset-freezing powers
Powers to seize and limit broadcasters' equipment, and to control the content and messaging of broadcasts
Powers to suspend or limit the use of postal, telecommunication and email services
Strict controls on internet usage and traffic
Limitations or prohibition on contact and communication with foreign nationals and
foreign organizations
Prohibition of organized demonstrations and assemblies in public spaces
Curfews in designated areas
Restrictions on travel to and residence in certain areas of the country (including the possibility of forced relocation or evacuation, or restrictions on travel within the
country)
Deployment of armed forces in the national territory
Suspension or limitation of the use of key transport and infrastructure
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Filed Under: human rights, hungary, surveillance, terror, terror threat
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Two revoke all laws and the restraint they present, merely utter two magic words:
All the would-be-dictatorships around the world have got to love those two words, because as soon as someone mentions them, any limits as to what they can do, what rights they can strip away are gone.
Detention without charge, barring assembly, limits on free speech? All acceptable so long as you say the two magic words, because who's going to 'support terrorism by making the public vulnerable'? Use the phantom threat of terrorism to scare the public into complying and there's no right you can't remove, no law you can't ignore.
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Re: Two revoke all laws and the restraint they present, merely utter two magic words:
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Re: Re: Two revoke all laws and the restraint they present, merely utter two magic words:
Nothing new is under the sun!
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Re: Re: Re: Two revoke all laws and the restraint they present, merely utter two magic words:
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Re: Two revoke all laws and the restraint they present, merely utter two magic words:
On the bright side, it makes it really easy to figure out which horse's ass next needs to be assassinated the most. Whacka-a-mole writ large.
This thing reminds me of Canada's War Measures Act, which was invoked to handle the FLQ Crisis back when I was a kid; just one of the things I never forgave the father of the current Prime Minister of Canada for doing.
When, during the course of human events, did "wide-ranging and almost unchallengeable powers" ever make a lick of sense?
Oh, Hungary.
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we know how this works....
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Re: we know how this works....
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Re: Re: we know how this works....
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Re: Re: Re: we know how this works....
please remember the US MERGED with the nazis
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Re: Re: Re: Re: we know how this works....
you can always google it
"enhanced interrogation" - "Verschärfte Vernehmung"
http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/
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Re: Re: we know how this works....
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Re: we know how this works....
OK - using nazi let's tell the whole story.
Out there there are lots of Nazis. Of course Nazism is a peaceful ideology and has many great achievements to its credit.
The peaceful Nazis will of course help us to fight those radical Nazi-ists who are causing terrorism.
Unfortunately this isn't working too well so all we can think of is to clamp down hard on EVERYONE'S liberty because the alternative is to admit that Nazism is the problem and we don't want to offend those moderate Nazis.
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Re: we know how this works....
The US and similar countries have since torn their democratic ideas and thrown them out with those same lives they have claimed to be protecting.
Those politicians should be ashamed.
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Is Hungary signatory to the Geneva Conventions on Warfare?
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*drafts a letter*
I understand. Autocracy is tempting. It's nice to be able to go after the enemy without spending time and effort on satisfying procedures and warrants and whatnot.
Can you imagine playing a 4X game (like Civilization) where you had to file paperwork and argue your case before being allowed a random chance of taking your action? Bleugh.
But you need to know; this is a very bad idea, for two reasons; your information, and the Hungarian economy.
First, information. You aren't playing a game where your information is perfect and up-to-date, you know. Your investigators and intelligence agencies will make honest mistakes, false inferences, record erroneous data.
When you make a decision to freeze someone's assets, restrain their movements, gag their communications, you're going to do that based on information that's, quite honestly, not reliable.
Innocents far outnumber terrorists. Even if your intelligence network is 99.99% accurate, 9 times out of 10 your actions would still be impacting innocents instead of terrorists. Probabilities are not your friend, here.
Which brings me to my second point, economy.
A nation's economy depends on law. People wheel, deal, and make investments reliant on the promise that they are protected by the law, that everyone is equally protected by the law, and that they can seek redress if their rights are violated.
If you give yourself this permission to ignore their rights, that promise goes away. Without it, people will be hesitant to invest in Hungarian businesses, save up money, or even remain in the country, knowing that at any time their property could be taken or their freedom restricted without any recourse.
It doesn't matter that these measures are solely intended to fight terrorism; as I noted before, even the best intelligence network is largely blind, and these powers will disproportionately impact innocent people.
In any case, the next part is like a trail of dominoes; without trust in your government, people (and their money) will not be willing to travel to, remain in, or invest in Hungary.
Without manpower and share capital, Hungarian businesses will not thrive and produce.
Without productive business, Hungarian citizens (those who remain) can't make or spend as much money, and your ability to export goods and demand for imported goods both drop.
Without those, you have less taxes and tariffs.
Without those, you have worse-off public services; education, medicine, transport, and law enforcement.
And without that last one, Hungary is easy pickings for terrorists, anti-terrorism powers or not.
I know, I'm exaggerating. But if you pass this law and give yourself this power, it really is going to come back to bite you. Bite you really hard, if you overuse it.
Sincerely,
Daydream.
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Re: *drafts a letter*
The whole world was plunged into war when three nations decided to pull this crap back in the 1930s & '40s.
Think about Russia's Cheka/KGB/Gulag Archipelago, Fascist Spain and Italy, the East German Stasi, Pinochet's Chile, Argentina's "Desaperacidos", Pol Pot's Cambodia, ...
Step back from the brink. No one gains from a blood bath.
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Hungarian Gulag
The Proposed Hungarian Law is akin to a low grade Hungarian goulash being foisted upon all Hungarian persons under the guise of being Beluga caviar.
This 'law' is such a wretched legal concoction it may well allow the Hungarian government to arbitrarily turn all of Hungary into a gulag.
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I hate competition
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Re:
The US didn't invent this. They're just the modern instantiation of a tired, old idea. It's just as easy to learn bad ideas as good ideas.
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FEMA has the same powers in a emergency situation.
Here is a quick list of executive orders if you want to look up what they can "legally" do.
#10995-siezure of all communications media in the US
#10997-seizure o fall electric power, fuels etc. Public and private
#10999-seizure of all transportation, public and private and control over highways, roads waterways etc.
#11000-siezure of all american people to be into mandatory work forces under federal supervision.
There are dozens more executive orders like this put in place in case of an "emergency"
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Also, having been an EU member since the early noughties, I'm not that convinced that these laws would be EU legal.
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You seem to have spelled "British" incorrectly. Don't worry, it's a classic mistake.
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Huh?
Because George pretty much showed us how this ends...
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Re: Huh?
Maybe that's the script he's working from. Gene Roddenberry did it (twice) before George dragged it up yet again, and Orwell before him, and Carrol before him, ...
Maybe we should stop pulling this story up again and again as politicians appear to be far too susceptible to suggestion.
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