Ahead Of President Trump, The Web's One And Only Backup Wants To Make A Backup Of Itself (In Canada)

from the you-know,-just-in-case dept

Wed, Nov 30th 2016 11:42am — Glyn Moody

The Internet Archive is probably the most important site that most people have never heard of, much less used. It is an amazing thing: not just a huge collection of freely-available digitized materials, but a backup copy of much of today's Web, available through something known as the Wayback Machine. It gets its name from the fact that it lets visitors view snapshots of vast numbers of Web pages as they have changed over the last two decades since the Internet Archive was founded -- some 279 billion pages currently. That feature makes it an indispensable -- and generally unique -- record of pages and information that have since disappeared, sometimes because somebody powerful found them inconvenient.

Given the way the world is going at the moment, that's a problem that is likely to get worse, not better. The founder of the Internet Archive, Brewster Kahle, is worried about that prospect, as he makes clear in a blog post:

On November 9th in America, we woke up to a new administration promising radical change. It was a firm reminder that institutions like ours, built for the long-term, need to design for change.

For us, it means keeping our cultural materials safe, private and perpetually accessible. It means preparing for a Web that may face greater restrictions.

It means serving patrons in a world in which government surveillance is not going away; indeed it looks like it will increase.

Throughout history, libraries have fought against terrible violations of privacy -- where people have been rounded up simply for what they read. At the Internet Archive, we are fighting to protect our readers' privacy in the digital world.

Ever the visionary, Kahle has come up with a bold plan to minimize possible damage from the incoming US administration, and any new laws harming the Internet that it might introduce: So this year, we have set a new goal: to create a copy of Internet Archive's digital collections in another country. We are building the Internet Archive of Canada because, to quote our friends at LOCKSS, "lots of copies keep stuff safe." This project will cost millions.
Creating a backup of the Web's backup in this way would have been a great idea under any circumstances -- it's rather foolish to depend upon a single site to preserve humanity's collective digital memory. But it becomes even more prudent given the "radical change" that may be coming. And locating outside the US jurisdiction, in Canada, is a wise move.

As Kahle says, the project will cost millions, and he's asking for donations to help him realize his plan. As anyone who has used the Internet Archive knows, he deserves our support for what he has already achieved and made freely available through this invaluable resource. But supporting the next stage of his great project with a donation takes on an additional importance: it is not just a nice thing to do, it's a wonderful way to help the Web become more resilient to whatever 2017 may start throwing at it.

Follow me @glynmoody on Twitter or identi.ca, and +glynmoody on Google+

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Filed Under: backup, brewster kahle, canada, donald trump, internet archive, privacy
Companies: internet archive

96 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 11:55am

I think "because Trump" is a good excuse to do things that should have been done anyway.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 11:56am

Now Trump is a book burner?
"Throughout history, libraries have fought against terrible violations of privacy"

This is getting so crazy it is becoming comical. Do you guys sleep under your beds in fear now? I guess it will come as a big surprise to the left when the world does not end on January 20.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 11:57am

Canada not such a great choice
Based on articles here at Techdirt over the years, my understanding is that Canada's privacy laws and, worse, their libel laws, make it a bad choice for a non-US backup. Maybe this was picked because it was the best of a bad lot (UK looks bad too, at the moment), but I'd rather see the archive hosted somewhere a bit less friendly to censorious plaintiffs and bureaucrats.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:05pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I'll bite.

Maybe before commenting and throwing accusations do a tiny bit of reading.

Easy start are school libraries and what they have to deal with annually from both the institutional and parental ends. See how many books have tried to be banned by parents.

Then more onto the same thing being done by governmental institutions. Start with school boards and state governments changing histories and trying to rewrite school textbooks to follow false narratives or ignore true events (see Texas as an easy example).

Then you can get to the real bad stuff that places like Wayback are trying to prevent where the government limits what you can see and view online (see a lot of what the UK has been doing recently).

This is far from some paranoid fantasy.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:16pm

Canadian donations?
The donation page mentions tax-deductability, except they're apparently not tax-deductible for Canadians. And there's no mention of Canadian-dollar donations. And the "pay with a credit card" option doesn't do anything when clicked (the other two buttons do).
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:22pm

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Hmm, but suddenly it is a concern because of Trump. Yet another whoa, scary Trump article from the left. It didn't work during the campaign but the left can't give it up.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:23pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Trump's climate change denial will certainly not help it persist.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
The press is going to be talking about Trump for the next four years. Better get used to it.
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orbitalinsertion (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:28pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
No, Trump is a libel defamation lawsuit nut who wants to change those laws. The end result of which would be easier to win lawsuits for people who think they are somehow wronged by facts being mentioned somewhere, and the disappearing of those facts, frequently with a fair amount of collateral disappearing.

What is comical is the the repeated claims of anything certain people don't like (or understand) being "the left" and the attempt to disparage some things by doing so. (And this is actually what argumentum ad hominem is. Label person making statement as being something one can use as a disparagement and therefore whatever they said is not worth considering. Whereas calling someone an idiot while pointing out the flaws in their position is not.)
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I understand that, but the ridiculous level they go to in order to spread FUD about the Republicans is getting to be comical. Sure, call him out on what he says or does. But fear mongering about digital book burning is so far out in left field I almost have to believe the Onion wrote it.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I see you are going to ignore that comment and try to circle back on your baseless bashing. Not going to work.

What are your thoughts on a private library (or similar institution) protecting itself from government intrusion and managing risk?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
So he loves his libel lawsuits, which is stupid. But how many has he actually followed through with or won? Also, considering it is the purview of congress to make law how exactly is the Donald going to get libel laws changed?

And yes, calling someone an idiot because you assume your position is the correct one is an argumentum ad hominem.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Obviously I am against it. :)

If the reason for backing up elsewhere, which should have been done long ago, is to avoid government intrusion or more likely, intrusion by the content industries, then great. Do it. But to somehow make a baseless claim that it is being done because of Trump is borderline crazy.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:35pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?

This is getting so crazy it is becoming comical. Do you guys sleep under your beds in fear now? I guess it will come as a big surprise to the left when the world does not end on January 20.

a) It would have been "so crazy it is becoming comical" to suggest that President-elect Bush II would turn the country into a mass torture state. Or kidnap people by the hundreds from around the world - over 100 from EU soil alone - and hold them for years - some now halfway through their second decade - without trial. Or launch a pre-emptive war. That would last over a decade and only make things worse. Or that he'd do away with habeas corpus.

b) It would have been "so crazy it is becoming comical" to suggest that many of the very people responsible for a), would be telling people that the NEXT winning candidate from their own party was an unstable loose cannon.

c) It would have been "so crazy it is becoming comical" to imagine a winning candidate having openly bragged how he would punish the media for "negative" - meaning accurate - reporting. Openly and regularly pointing at the media during his rallies and declaring them the enemy and worse.

d) It would have been "so crazy it is becoming comical" to imagine a winning candidate choosing the leader of a white supremacist fake news site to be his new Karl Rove.

Nevertheless, here we are. With c) especially in mind, you're saying that it's "so crazy it is becoming comical" to take Trump at his word and based on his actions.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:36pm

Re: Canada not such a great choice
As a Canadian, I think Iceland would have been a better choice.

A country with that much Pirate Party support would be a good place to put an Archive.

If we do end up with the honour of hosting a copy of the Archive, though, I'll try to protect it.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:38pm

There probably is already a backup...
Seems like that kind of archive is what the Utah facility should be doing...

I guess maybe it is, but not just the pages, but all the visitors to those pages as well.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Also, considering it is the purview of congress to make law how exactly is the Donald going to get libel laws changed?

Considering that Donald said it, and that Donald is now president-elect, I find it more disturbing that he doesn't know this.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
It's funny, because the only one spreading FUD about digital book burning is...you.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Yes, don't listen to the founder of the Internet Archive talking about why the Internet Archive is doing what they are doing. He's clearly not a credible source on what the Internet Archive is doing or why.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
"If the reason for backing up elsewhere, which should have been done long ago, is to avoid government intrusion or more likely, intrusion by the content industries, then great. Do it. "

Glad we agree. Both have a high likelihood to happen no matter who is running for president.

"But to somehow make a baseless claim that it is being done because of Trump is borderline crazy."

I personally have been treating Trump as he will do everything he says he will do.
So when he says he wants to open up libel laws then Wayback definitely should be doing what it can to protect itself because they would be a clear target for those laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
But to somehow make a baseless claim that it is being done because of Trump is borderline crazy.

Trump is a straight-shooter. Man of his word. Trustworthy.

So when he says he'll open up libel laws, you better believe that I'm taking him at his word.

Seems like the Internet Archive thinks the same thing.

They're still free to take his word as his bond, no?
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?

But how many has he actually followed through with or won?

You're missing the point.

No less than the American Bar Association has declared Trump to be "libel bully" who had filed many meritless suits attacking his opponents and had never won in court.

It's not about "winning in court." It's about bulling them into shutting up or facing bankruptcy. And he's bragged about it.

As a presidential candidate he expanded that into highly publicized personal insults and smears to the extent that those on the receiving end regularly received death threats and more. As President he'll have even more power to do so.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:51pm

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
It would be crazy to think that Obama took those powers and ran with them. Even to the point of drone striking and killing American citizens with no due process.

It would be crazy to think that a winning president said that elections have consequences. Very childish behavior. Now the shoe is on the "right" foot maybe this election will come with consequences?

It would be crazy to think that a major political party would put forth a candidate who was under several FBI investigations.

It would be crazy to think that a presidential candidate was selling influence through their foundation while secretary of state.

It would be crazy to think the president and secretary of state would concoct a story about a YouTube video causing an attack on an embassy. Then still telling that story to the UN weeks after it was debunked.

I could go on.

So there are lots of good reasons to archive the archive, but Trump isn't one of them. It is just more FUD from the left.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:54pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Do you guys sleep under your beds in fear now?

No, we're in our closets waiting for Obama to come take our guns...
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Just because he founded it doesn't mean he isn't part of the FUD campaign. Just look at FB, Google and Twitter. All founded by leftists who now wish to censor "fake" news. Of course "fake" news is anything that doesn't tow the Democratic party line.

You guys just don't get that fear only works for so long. Eventually the wolf never comes and people quit listening.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Just because he founded it doesn't mean he isn't part of the FUD campaign.

Not sure the point you're trying to make - he's taking Trump at his word, and acting proactively.

Should he not be taking Trump at his word? Or are you saying he's not doing what he says he's doing?

BTW, what's wrong with having a backup? Surely you can't be against those.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
So there are lots of good reasons to archive the archive, but Trump isn't one of them. It is just more FUD from the left.

"We're going to open up libel laws, and we're going to have people sue you like you've never got sued before." - DJ Trump

Sure. Just FUD.
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crade (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:21pm

"And locating outside the US jurisdiction, in Canada, is a wise move"

Even though I love the investment here in Canada, if I were speaking objectively, I would say picking a country less under the U.S.'s thumb would probably be better for their purposes.

Putting your backup in Canada unfortunately does not much shelter you from U.S. gov't restrictions.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Yes, Obama has gone more into drone strikes. But he shut down the kidnapping and torture. He's repeatedly *tried* to shut down Guantanamo, but even still I think it's a shocking lack of leadership that he hasn't succeeded.

Being investigated means nothing; not when one is cleared. Especially when - on email handling alone - there were/are similar investigations for the entire previous White House, the last two Secretaries of state, Mitt Romney, and 2016 candidates Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Rick Perry and Bobby Jindal.

Expand that criteria beyond email servers and into outright fraud, and you can include Trump.

Your "selling influence through their foundation" claim is no more than an accusation, the sort that could be made about any prominent candidate in either party.

Your Benghazi fantasy is pure wingnuttery. Really. C'mon; people have had time to look it up.

So there are lots of good reasons to archive the archive, and Trump is a big one. Based on both his promises and his actions.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:30pm

Re:
You are exactly right! The past administrations and action of businesses and a vast ignorant electorate was building up to this. Trump is nothing more than a fucking Cherry on top of this fucked up sundae.

But low do the people focus on that damn cherry too fucking much. Obama did fuck all to help... all the kings agencies and all the kings men, instead of putting humpty dumpty back together again just pushed a boulder from where he fell on top of his ass to make sure the fucker stays down!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:32pm

Re: There probably is already a backup...
I imagine the government probably has an internet archive that makes The Internet Archive look like a joke in comparison. Your tax dollars at work, yet you can't access it.
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crade (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Except quoting Trump is meaningless. Anything he has said he will have contradicted or soon will contradict. Here's another recent quote for you:
"I am going to work very hard to repeal [Lyndon Johnson's] language and to protect free speech for all Americans."

So there you go, he's going to work very hard to protect all american's Freedom of speech. Nothing to worry about :)
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Baron von Robber, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I heard an interesting interview with a guy who creates fake news, puts it on his fake news site and the posts about it on Facebook to generate shares to make money. He initiates them by posting on alt-right sites.

Sucker.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:39pm

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Do you guys sleep under your beds in fear now?

No, we're in our closets waiting for Obama to come take our guns...

Come now... federal and state legislators passed laws. It's safe to come out of the closet now.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
You know Crade, I'm hoping that I'm wrong.

I'd love to be wrong.

But at this point, I don't think even Trump can keep what Trump's saying straight.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:42pm

Re:
It does shelter you if you set up a different organization to run it. That organization could ignore US government and court orders.

In any case, Canada isn't "under the US's thumb." In recent years it (officially, at least) stayed out of Iraq. It passed on ballistic missile defense. It passed on "shared" control of it's port and border security. There are passport controls and other obstacles on the border for the first time ever.

Trade has given the US too much influence. But from wheat to lumber to trucking to livestock to manufactured goods, the US refuses to honor NAFTA. And so Canada has been signing free trade and investment deals with other counties left and right, including now one with the EU. Yesterday it approved the major expansion of a pipeline taking Alberta crude to the left coast for export to Asia, rather than south to the US.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Trump's words may be meaningless, but there's still his actions. No less than the American Bar Association has declared Trump to be "libel bully" who has filed many meritless suits attacking his opponents.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:51pm

Sounds a lot more like they are just trying to take advantage of the anti-Trump crowd to make a quick cash grab.
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crade (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I hate to say it.. But I think the U.S. has a magic 8-ball for president.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:52pm

You guys live in a bubble of fear
Why is it with the left that the sky is falling, the seas are rising and we will all be crushed in the middle? Don't you ever get tired of all the FUD?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:55pm

Re: Re:
They also approved a pipeline that heads SouthEast to Wisconsin. Embridge Line 3.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 1:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Just look at FB, Google and Twitter. All founded by leftists who now wish to censor "fake" news.

Just so you know, basically everything in that sentence is flat out false. They were not founded by "leftists" (you might be able to make the case that one Twitter founder would be considered a "leftist" but even that's a stretch -- none of them are easily defined on the silly "left/right" political spectrum. Second, none of them wish to censor fake news. In fact, all three companies have actively resisted demands that it do so.

So, yeah. Get out of your bubble. You've been fed a line of bullshit.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:01pm

Re: You guys live in a bubble of fear
This is so similar to the other AC either you are the exact same person trying to start a new chain or you are a russian troll commenting on a story not realizing one of you already hit it.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:05pm

Re: Re: Re:
In that case they're replacing an existing pipeline built in the 1960s.

Sure, the replacement will have a higher capacity. But rather than a new pipeline (or in the BC case twinning a pipeline), it's in the realm of what really should be mandatory maintenance.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:07pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I see that you insist on dividing political opinion on left/right axis. That is a poor axis for evaluating opinions in these comments, which are much more driven by where on an anarchy to totalitarian axis the commenter political views are. By using the left/right axis to inform your political opinions, you are allowing the totalitarians to increase their power, and they will create a world in which you are a serf, and they lord it over you , and it make no difference to the serfs whether the lords are on the political left or right..
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Getting quite testy these days. Guess when people shoot holes in your Trump attacks it can be frustrating. The fact that you don't see the correlation between the leftist media blaming "fake" news for causing Hillary's loss as the first step to controlling the news and therefore the message is sad. Hillary lost because the left, even with near full control of the mainstream media, does not control the "news" anymore. There are lots of independent sources to get the word out. The left is coming for them. All the smokescreen of Trump wanting to control libel laws is to distract from what the left is actually going to attempt to do and control all media. They will use the social media platforms to attempt to shutdown the independent sources.
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crade (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:16pm

Re: Re: Re:
Canada approved the keystone xl a long time ago. It was held up on the U.S. side.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
It is funny how leftist are always the one saying this and then proceeding to do exactly that.
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Baron von Robber, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
How much tinfoil do you go thru a day? And do you use sugar or Splenda in your koolaid?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Don't forget that it is crazy to think that the DNC rigged their primary to ensure Hillary won.

Also, the media fed her debate questions thus trying to rig the general election.

But hey, Trump burns digital books. Oh look, a squirrel!!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I see that you idea of political debate is telling other people what you think their political opinions and positions are.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
At the same time, Canada did little if anything to fight for Keystone XL when it was held up on the US side. Nothing more than a politician's usual expression of deep personal concern over whatever the current issue.

Probably because sending the oil to either coast and on to other markets is better for Canadian sovereignty.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
No, that's normal. The RNC and DNC are private organizations and can rig their primaries however they want. Lord knows the RNC set plenty of precedent in rigging the election against McCain in 2000, and later against Ron Paul. And trying to rig it against Trump, but too late.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 2:57pm

Maybe they recognize an authoritarian when he very obviously presents himself as one and understand the dangers any authoritarian regime poses to unfettered information. I donated because even if Trump ends up being the best democratic President in American history this election was clarifying to me. You have to proactively maintain and protect important institutions like the Internet Archives.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Before Wikileaks exposed the media is truly in the back pocket of the DNC you said I was crazy for calling them the liberal media. So there is that.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:09pm

Re:
The right complained about the executive orders Obama loved to make and you didn't listen. Now you will wish you had been against executive order over reach.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
> between the leftist media ... blah blah blah ...

I guess to someone far enough out on the right, everything else looks "leftist".
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
> the U.S. has a magic 8-ball for president.

Minus the "magic" part.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:15pm

The Internet Archive must have recorded nothing about Canada's Bill C-51 and its Hate Speech Laws, which can override its constitution.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:18pm

Re:
Canada's leftist hate speech laws will be here soon enough. That is another way the left is trying to control speech. Any speech they don't like is labeled as hate speech. That and the "fake" news attack will be their battle cry to control speech.
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That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 3:35pm

Might be a stupid question but...
Why have one backup when you could have many? I know the archive has got to be massive, but break it up into manageable chunks, put it up on a torrent site(or several) and I imagine you'd have plenty of people willing to download and host various pieces, to the point that if one or two went down for whatever reason there'd be half a dozen backups just waiting.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 4:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I have seen NRA-people calling several non-moderate members of the republicans communists. There is apparently a "right right wing" and a "wrong right wing". Apparently they agree that every other right wing is the wrong right wing! If you go far enough out in those disagreements you eventually end up in "you against the world" and everybody being against you. It is quite fascinating to see how little extremists have in common.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 7:04pm

Re: Re:
Yup, been this way like forever.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 7:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Many on the right-right-right are terrified of sharia law while at the same time attempting to codify christianity into US law.

Some people do not understand how this might be seen as a bit silly.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 7:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
sniff sniff
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 7:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
They know everything already, what do they need facts for?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 7:26pm

Re: You guys live in a bubble of fear
Technically, "the sky" does not fall.

The seas however .. can, do, and have risen and fallen many many times as evidenced by the geologic remains of those era .. but don't let that interrupt your story time.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 7:41pm

This is why I'm so glad that Trump won, having spent the last 8 years warning people that Obama never was the benevolent humanitarian he pretends to be, as his covert actions have repeatedly proven. Fear and mistrust of the government should be ingrained in all of us, at all times, no matter if that government is headed by a smooth talking salesman who's easy to love or an angry demagogue who's easy to hate, because backstage behind the curtain there may be very little difference between the two.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2016 @ 8:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
No no no. You seem to be confused. The 8 ball is leaving office. The 5 ball is the one that just got elected.
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Roger Strong (profile), 30 Nov 2016 @ 10:08pm

Re: Re:
Obama has issued executive orders at a lower rate than any President in the last 100 years. Yes, the left listened. That's why they speak to people who make your claim in the tone of voice of a condescending aunt to a retarded four-year-old.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 1 Dec 2016 @ 12:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Getting quite testy these days.

No. Just sick of idiots who view everything on a left/right spectrum that isn't even remotely accurate. You keep attacking 'the left' as anything that disagrees with you.

Also, I notice that rather than respond to the multiple factual errors you made, you just attack me based on more falsehoods. This is not symptomatic of "the left" or "the right" but of foolish blowhards who identify more with a team than with reality. Stop identifying with a team and start learning.

The fact that you don't see the correlation between the leftist media blaming "fake" news for causing Hillary's loss as the first step to controlling the news and therefore the message is sad.

Um. You realize that I was one of the first to call out this exact risk, saying that the blaming of fake news is stupid, and a slippery slope to censorship:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161123/12541536127/facebook-china-fake-news-slippery -slope-censorship.shtml

So, uh, once again, your assumptions and your facts are wrong. You're wrong. You should stop being so wrong.

All the smokescreen of Trump wanting to control libel laws

Smokescreen? Like when he said "we're going to open up libel laws"? How is it a smokescreen when he said it directly?
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Ninja (profile), 1 Dec 2016 @ 4:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Leftist media was pure gold! Have my funny vote!
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Ninja (profile), 1 Dec 2016 @ 4:23am

Re: Might be a stupid question but...
I'd go further and allow ordinary folks like you and me offer some space to backup. You could store pieces of the archive all around the net via volunteers. You download some app and give it the space you can. It would create an ID and register as a backup helper assigning more trust as your copy keeps being available and stable over time.

I couldn't possibly do it technically but I hope the idea flies.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 4:57am

Re: Re: Re:
Facts .. who needs em?
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That One Guy (profile), 1 Dec 2016 @ 5:01am

Re: Re: Might be a stupid question but...
Given how cheap storage space is and continues to be, that seems like it would work nicely. One gig here, one gig there, spread out globally so that each chunk has numerous backups and can be restored any time a particular bit suffers 'damage'(intentional or accidental).
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That One Guy (profile), 1 Dec 2016 @ 5:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
('Hypocritical'. The word you're looking for is 'hypocritical', not 'silly'.)

But of course, making laws based upon that other book is absurd, anyone can write a book, why should laws be made simply based upon what some heathen wrote a couple hundred years past!

Their 'book' however is a divinely inspired tome filled with holy commands delivered and/or inspired by nothing less than the creator of life, the universe and everything, and as such it's only common sense to make laws based upon such perfection, and only a heretic would have the audacity to say otherwise. If they don't want to live in a country with laws based upon perfection then they can go live in North Korea or some other heathen country!
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 5:27am

Re:
Yah sorry but not good enough reason to vote in and support a racist, misogynist, petulant, self-centered, habitual liar.

There are far, far better ways to help people realize the dangers of an overreaching government than voting in someone who has promised to do exactly as you fear.
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Baron von Robber, 1 Dec 2016 @ 6:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Sucker. =D
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Jim, 1 Dec 2016 @ 6:44am

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
He could be. Look at the people he has chosen to interview for his advisors roles, and his leadership roles. Some want book burning. Restriction of liberties, and punishment for being different. Totally unamerican. Totally un white hat. But, here is the scarey part. Who would you trust to say, that's wrong?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 6:49am

Re: Might be a stupid question but...

I know the archive has got to be massive, but break it up into manageable chunks, put it up on a torrent site(or several) and I imagine you'd have plenty of people willing to download and host various pieces

There's a group of people working on this. You can join if you have a few hundred gigabytes of free space.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Dec 2016 @ 7:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Here's the problem: http://on-t-internet.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/how-identity-politics-and-fake-news.html

"Left" now means "not alt-right enough." The logical endgame is to become more extreme, more insular, and therefore more entrenched. The silver lining in the cloud is that echo chambers tend to fragment as competing factions struggle for dominance.

America needs a middle ground now more than ever.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Dec 2016 @ 7:22am

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
What AC Nov 30th, 2016 @ 2:07pm says. Stop playing the partisan game. The idea is to divide and conquer.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Dec 2016 @ 7:23am

Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
That's the point of the left/right dichotomy; to distract you from that.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Dec 2016 @ 7:25am

Re: Re:
Progressive, not leftist. Actual socialists are always ragging on the Liberals. It's actually quite funny. Think "pot" and "kettle" where pretension and smugness are concerned.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Dec 2016 @ 7:26am

Re: Re:
It's the logical endgame of characterising everyone you* disagree with as the enemy and exact opposite of what you believe.

There was no way this wasn't going to happen if people continued to think this way.

*Rhetorical
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 9:13am

Donald Trump is the Bin Laden that the status quo needs right now, but this boogeyman effect is also working in favor of people who want change.

Note: the Internet Archive isn't the only "internet backup". There's also archive.is.
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David, 1 Dec 2016 @ 9:17am

Land of the Free and Home of the Brave
Pick one. Hard enough already.
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Derek Kerton (profile), 1 Dec 2016 @ 11:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
Baron. I know you are right here, but consider that:

"I heard an interesting interview..."

is not you citing the most reliable source.

I'm sure the AC you are arguing with also "Heard it on the TV" that "fake news" is a liberal conspiracy to silence the truth tellers.

To the AC, "fake news" is not just anything libs don't like. It is stuff like "Obamacare to instate death panels" or "Assange feared dead" or "FBI agent in Weiner emails found dead" and other shit that is patently false, but is clickbait paydirt that is gobbled up and shared by twice as many on the right as the left.

And here's data and examples on which side is most gullible:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/partisan-fb-pages-analysis?utm_term=.owGVEB1dW#.odb rQEv5x

So don't tell those on the left that we're reactionary scaredy cats. At least we have a tendency to react to actual, y'know, stuff. Not that Techdirt is left. I am.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re: Re:
"Obama has issued executive orders at a lower rate than any President in the last 100 years. "

I'm not sure I agree with your numbers here Roger. If by rate you mean total per President, then Ford and Kennedy had less (1 term Presidents). If you mean per year, then Nixon had less in his second term than Obama and GWB tied him in his second term.

Maybe you mean average number of orders per year for their entire Presidency? That might be more true, but remember he's not done yet.

Now, if you mean the number of "Restricted" Executive orders, you would be dead wrong. Obama has the last 6 Presidents smoked on that one.

"Although the current administration has issued fewer executive orders than other modern administrations, the figures below show that its total usage of restrictions in executive orders and proclamations exceeds that of any of the past six administrations, with the exception of Clinton’s first term. "

https://www.mercatus.org/publication/measuring-content-not-just-number-executive-orders-and-proclam ations

Disclaimer; Some of the data appears to be inconsistent, so the numbers vary based on source. Wiki seems to be different than ucsb.edu, and it's numbers for Obama dont seem to be current as ucsb.edu.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

I would agree that saying it's very low in numbers is fair. But I don't think he wins the door prize as the substance of his orders are fairly damning if you choose to believe the research.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 12:46pm

Re: Re:

Yah sorry but not good enough reason to vote in and support a racist, misogynist, petulant, self-centered, habitual liar.

Okay, so who did you vote for?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 12:53pm

Re: Re: Re:
He has more Restrictive orders than the last 6 Presidency's.

https://www.mercatus.org/publication/measuring-content-not-just-number-executive-orders -and-proclamations
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 12:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
So true.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re:
Lower over all, but more Restrictive Orders than the last 6 Presidencies.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2016 @ 2:00pm

Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
I dont think trump is so bad that it will end on the 20th, probably the 21st...He needs at least 1 day to fuck it all up.
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The Wanderer (profile), 2 Dec 2016 @ 7:53am

Re: Re: Re: Now Trump is a book burner?
If being under investigation was a disqualifier for being a legitimate candidate for office, then anyone who could cause an investigation to be initiated would have veto power over what candidates can run for office, and thus could make sure no one they disagree with ever gets into office.

It is true that in this case, the investigation was being carried out by an arm of the executive branch, during a period when the executive branch was under the control of people who theoretically support the candidate in question. However, the investigation was prompted by political pressure from people who oppose that candidate, and refusing to investigate would have carried its own political costs; as such, the origin of the investigation lies with those in opposition.

(Not to mention that Trump himself has been under various kinds of investigation this entire time; he's even used one of them as a defense of a highly nonstandard lack of transparency in one particular area. If being under investigation were a disqualifying factor, neither of the nominees this time around would have been eligible - and, most likely, neither would any of the unsuccessful candidates from the major-party primaries.)
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Roger Strong (profile), 4 Dec 2016 @ 4:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
All your link shows is that when the facts clearly prove one thing, an Exxon / Kock Bros. "think tank" can create some highly restricted utter nonsense criteria by which they can claim the opposite.
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