Trump Still Falsely Taking Credit For Sprint Jobs He Had Nothing To Do With

Overhype

from the magic-man dept

Tue, Jan 3rd 2017 6:26am — Karl Bode

Last month, we noted how Donald Trump proudly implied he was single-handedly responsible for Japan's Softbank bringing 50,000 jobs and $50 billion in investment to the United States. The problem, of course, is that it's not clear those numbers are entirely real, and there's absolutely no evidence suggesting they had anything to do with Donald Trump. The jobs were first unveiled back in October as part of a somewhat ambiguous $100 billion global investment investment fund between Softbank and Saudi Arabia aimed at boosting technology spending worldwide.

Some of that money could end up in the United States in the form of investment and jobs, but it has never been entirely clear how much. It's even less clear given that Softbank's Sprint here in the states has been trimming thousands of jobs over the last few years as it struggles with soaring debt. Still, all it took was a Manhattan meeting with Softbank Chair Masayoshi Son -- and a few Tweets by the President-elect -- to have the newswires filled with stories about how Donald Trump was somehow already performing miracles before even taking office:

Masa (SoftBank) of Japan has agreed to invest $50 billion in the U.S. toward businesses and 50,000 new jobs....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 6, 2016

Masa said he would never do this had we (Trump) not won the election!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 6, 2016

It was, of course, quietly pointed out by many that Softbank's pledge didn't have anything to do with Trump and had, in fact, been announced more than a month before Trump was even elected. But over the holiday, Sprint intentionally reignited the story again, announcing via press release that the company would be hiring as many as 5,000 new employees at Sprint over the next four years. Again, this was all thanks to the investment plans Softbank had already announced, but Sprint CEO Marcelo Claure was quick to feed Trump's ego by vaguely tying his administration to the (potential) new jobs:

"We are excited to work with President-Elect Trump and his Administration to do our part to drive economic growth and create jobs in the U.S.,” said Sprint CEO Marcelo Claure. "We believe it is critical for business and government to partner together to create more job opportunities in the U.S. and ensure prosperity for all Americans."

That allowed Trump to launch a new media event at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, again implying the jobs he had absolutely nothing to do with creating were somehow thanks to his incredible business accumen (even as the same reports now try to inform people this just isn't true):

"I was just called by the head people at Sprint, and they are going to be bringing 5,000 jobs back to the United States," Mr. Trump told reporters at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida. "They have taken them from other countries. They are bringing them back to the United States."

...Although Mr. Trump claimed credit for SoftBank’s $50 billion investment in the United States, those plans predated the election, and Mr. Son has owned a controlling stake in Sprint, among other companies, for several years.

So what's actually happening here? And why would Sprint be encouraging the press to falsely give Trump credit for something he had nothing to do with? Because Masayoshi Son wants regulatory approval for the company's planned acquisition of T-Mobile, which was rejected by U.S. regulators in 2014 because it would have reduced sector competition (and, ironically, jobs). Son has been pushing for another chance ever since, and apparently sees feeding Trump's ego as a smart path to success. Of course, as the New York Times noted today, Softbank and Sprint aren't the only companies pursuing this particular strategy.

Sure, it's possible that Trump is encouraging the false claims and undeserved press just for PR benefit and has no intention of giving Son what he wants.

But there's no real signs that's true. There's every indication that Trump intends to appoint revolving door regulators and telecom sector allies to the FCC. These folks have made it clear they intend to gut the agency and strip back numerous consumer protections, including net neutrality. They've also made it clear they don't think things like telecom monopolies are real, and they're unlikely to appoint any FCC Commissioner eager to use his regulatory authority to thwart job-killing mega-mergers like Sprint T-Mobile. Most analysts believe the telecom sector will soon be getting everything it wants, and then some.

The end result of these policies is going to be something decidedly less pleasant than is being sold, suggesting that everybody may want to keep their receipts.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

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Filed Under: credit, donald trump, jobs, marcelo claure, masayhoshi son, pr, propaganda
Companies: sprint, t-mobile

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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 6:45am

whoops... don't drop that bias...
Every fucking president does this shit! The Clintoon, Bush whack George, Barack Osama bin Bama, and now Drumpf the Shlumpf!

Why only call out the turd trump? Keep spinning TD, you are only going to drive views away. I hate trump too but damn I am getting sick of hearing about every little 'petty' fucking thing he does and how much you don't like it.

I actually want TD to stay around!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 6:55am

I do not recall prior president elects mouthing off with such flippant indiscretion, perhaps you could point out a few of these (according to you) everyday occurrences?

The reason people talk about "every little petty .. thing" is because the trumpster keeps tweeting his every little stupid thought to the world. Which prior president elect has done anything similar?
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Berenerd (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:00am

Now that the GOP has removed their oversight, this might actually be true. Soft bank can just bribe their way like they do in China!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:01am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
I'm sure if they drop whatever bias they have you'll be there to pick it up, dry clean it and mount it on a wall.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:12am

Makes sense. Trump has already shown that he won't let a 1% difference stop him from lying.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:14am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Well bye...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:24am

Par for the Shitty Course
Unless--at the completion of the inauguration--Donald Trump pulls of his mask revealing himself to be Andy Kaufman in his most triumphant long-running gag ever, I expect this to be just one of many cons that he pulls on the American people.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:30am

Re:
That is part of the problem. They keep feeding the the Troll in Chief. Trump is not going away so I am not saying ignore him, just ignore the stupid stuff. Cause this is incredibly stupid stuff.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:32am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
"Every fucking president does this shit"

Not like this. Even if true, wouldn't the fact that Trump supporters wanted a change to the establishment make the fact he's doing the same things worth commenting upon?

"Why only call out the turd trump"

Because nobody else is President Elect of the USA at this moment in time. As ever, it's always telling that nobody's ever able to defend or explain Trump's actions, they only try to deflect attention.

"Keep spinning TD, you are only going to drive views away"

You know what's more likely to drive views away? People having childish whining fits, spending more time coming up with stupid names to call people than making a relevant comment. Your words are more likely to drive away sensible commenters and lurkers interested in adult conversation more than anything Karl wrote in the article.

"damn I am getting sick of hearing about every little 'petty' fucking thing he does and how much you don't like it"

Then why are you clicking through to read and comment upon articles discussing those things rather then scrolling past to an article you are interested in? The only thing you've done is increased traffic, making it more likely that further articles on the subject will be written.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:33am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Hey look, another tool bag that can't read.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:34am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
They can keep the bias, it is impossible to not have a bias, I am just saying they should hold back on some of its "fruitier" sides.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:35am

Re: Re:
The problem, as always, is that he's not merely trolling. He's creating a narrative that some people will actually believe and refer to as fact. Left unresponded and unchallenged, there's nothing to point to when some people accept the opposite of reality as truth.
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blogagog (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:43am

Haha, your side lost, techdirt. Grow a pair and live with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:45am

Re: Re: Re:
Exactly. The MSM let Obama and Hillary create a false narrative and should not do this for Trump.
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McFortner (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:49am

Breaking News!
THIS JUST IN: A Politician takes credit for something they didn't do. Film at 11.
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Baron von Robber, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:52am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Binky stat!

Get ready for 4 years of this on steroids, caffeine and meth.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well, proving as I said above - nobody can defend or explain Trump's actions, they can only deflect. It's pathetic.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:55am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
"Then why are you clicking through to read and comment upon articles discussing those things rather then scrolling past to an article you are interested in?"

Because trolls are self-important and believe they are endowing the world with their highly valuable b.s. and without such a bestowment the world would flounder in ignorance and meaninglessness. It's all about ego. TD has a forum, the troll has to shit on it because he doesn't have a forum of his own.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:55am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
I agree. Would to see more tech coverage and less politics.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:57am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
"You know what's more likely to drive views away? People having childish whining fits, spending more time coming up with stupid names to call people than making a relevant comment. Your words are more likely to drive away sensible commenters and lurkers interested in adult conversation more than anything Karl wrote in the article."

Is this some kind of right back at you deflection or defense? If you don't like it then leave? How many times do I need to tell you and TD that this type of attitude only harms TD. That is the childishness going on around here! I am trying to tell TD to stop having the childish whining fits. It is my opinion that Trump is the same as Bush as same as Obama as Same as Hillary.

The only difference is that Trump seems to come without a filter and that just tears your little asses right up for some reason.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:59am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Got Cherry flavor?

will pass on the meth and steroids though, you dopers can have all that stuff.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:02am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Because most people don't want a hyperactive shitweasel in power?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:08am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No deflecting here. Just pointing out false narratives abound but you don't like them when they don't favor your team.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
ha ha... you are accusing someone of deflecting when you do it yourself?

dont be a hypocrit
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yep. I haven't found one liberal that can even fake concern for the media's behavior this election cycle. But they can cry fron the roof tops when it comes to Trump.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Oh dear, not liking valid criticism? Would making up a childish nickname for you help?

"If you don't like it then leave?"

Because there are adults in the room I'm trying to have a conversation with. If someone comes into a room and starts being an ass, the correct response is to tell the ass to leave, not empty the room of everyone else.

"How many times do I need to tell you"

Since you insist on commenting anonymously, I have no way of knowing. Once? Twice? Every day? Who knows? Have we spoken before?

Hint: if you want people to treat you based on your past comments, don't hide who you are.

"It is my opinion that Trump is the same as Bush as same as Obama as Same as Hillary."

It's my opinion that they are not. Yet, you won't discuss that, you only spend your effort on making up silly names. I wonder why?

"The only difference is that Trump seems to come without a filter and that just tears your little asses right up for some reason."

Yeah, same as it would with any lying 6 year old I wasn't allowed to discuss lest his defenders get rowdy. You just seem proud you elected one to lead you for some reason.
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kenichi tanaka (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:20am

That's like saying Obama takes credit for jobs he didn't create. When are people going to wake up and realize that our government does not create jobs, they never have. Last time I checked, companies like McDonalds, Sprint, Best Buy, Target, hotels, Casinos ... these are employers who create jobs, not the government. But what's fucked up is the liberals who are under the delusion that the government creates jobs. That is simply a fallacy perpetrated by Democrats spreading their liberal agenda.

Trump Still Falsely Taking Credit For Sprint Jobs He Had Nothing To Do With

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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh dear, this crap again. Which "Team" do you think I'm on?

I always love this game, it proves how ignorant some people are, and how bad it is that the US has turned politics into a team sport. Facts never get through.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Where am I deflecting? Do you people know what words mean yet?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Agree, it really is hard to help them understand that in many ways they greatly helped someone like Trump to make it to the Presidency.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
While you are right that it has become a "Team" sport, remember that only ONE team like to use terms such as... Deflecting to attempt to counter an argument without any substance.

Until you realize that you are guilty as well, then there is no path forward for a hypocrite.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You are one of the most prolific posters here and you definitely have a team. Don't be ignorant and act like you don't.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes we do your majesty. You do it quite often.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:27am

Thanks Trump!
The old meme was for everything bad that happened we thanked Obama.

The new meme is for everything good that happens we thank Trump.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
If you become so enamored with the beauty of the words being used instead of the beauty of the 'message' being relayed then you can be endlessly fooled.

You insist on accusing me what I am trying to tell you that YOU sound like. TD's Trump tirades are what is getting childish. I don't like Trump but damn!

O yea, right... keep forgetting. It is okay for you to disparage people, but not others. Hypocrisy seems to be a bed fellow for you.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"remember that only ONE team like to use terms such as... Deflecting to attempt to counter an argument without any substance."

Intelligent descriptive terms? It's a shame that the system is so corrupted that a foreigner using such terms is assumed to be on an opposing team to be ignored then, I think.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:35am

Re:
Agree! But you can't tell them that!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/995/829/909.jpg
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not ignored, you bring out in yourself. You toss out the term when you don't have answers. I pointed out that not a peep is made when media supports liberals, but it is a full on crisis if they do it for the right. You habe no answer shop you cry deflection. Merely pointing out it runs both ways.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"You are one of the most prolific posters here and you definitely have a team."

Again, which "team"? As an Englishman living in Europe who trends to post here when bored but has an interested in the rest of the world around him... which team am I on? I'll admit I'm on the "not electing egotistical morons" team, but that doesn't necessarily mean I support anyone else.

I'm more likely to poke fun at the ignorant assumptions of anonymous cowards than support any American political "team", but I am always genuinely fascinated as to which fictional version of me people are hallucinating at any given moment in time when they think they have a point.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You do understand that a person whom believes themselves to be 'superior' to others is the mindset of those that created the Nazi party, Slavery, and most of the other evils in the world?

A passive aggressive insult is still an insult. Hubris is an ugly thing, as pride goes before the fall. What where you step, it's a real fall in every direction.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:43am

Re:
Preferring one outcome over another does not imply that either outcome is desirable, nor does it necessarily imply that one has a "side".

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/995/829/909.jpg
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"You toss out the term when you don't have answers."

No, I address the facts in front of me, which always includes people deflecting attention away from Trump and never being able to defend his actions. provide me with something that's not deflection, and I won't use the term that offends you when it correctly describe things.

"I pointed out that not a peep is made when media supports liberals"

In your opinion. But there's never adult discussion, only whining that your perceived side is being called out for their bullshit. There's plenty to discuss, but lie and deflection always seem to come in before adult debate.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:44am

Re: Thanks Trump!
And since there's no overlap, does that mean we can continue to blame everything bad on Obama?

Trump was elected? THANKS OBAMA!
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So, no attempt to discuss facts, straight to Hitler? Then whining about perceived insults (in defence of someone who constantly insults with no subtlety)? All without addressing any of the points at hand, yet again?

Pathetic.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hold up... lets stop with the games.

do tell us which side you are on. It does not matter what we think right?
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kenichi tanaka (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:46am

I love it how all of the cowards won't log into their techdirt account. Notice how every comment is an anonymous Coward.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:46am

Re:
I wonder how the government manages to get so big without signing any paychecks.
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PaulT (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Yet again, no attempt to address what's being said, only whining because I didn't wrap it in enough cotton wool for you. 2017 will not the year you lot grow up, then...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think you make it very clear you believe you are superior to others. Your words betray you human. You act like your shit does not stink and you speak hypocritically every where.

You use passive aggressive insults extensively and pass off anyone that does not agree with your logic as nothing but children to be ignored. Did you vote yes for Brexit or no? I am betting you voted a no! Am I on target? You seem like a dead ringer for a globalist elite type.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
If you become so enamored with the beauty of the words being used instead of the beauty of the 'message' being relayed then you can be endlessly fooled.

There is no beauty in a lie.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
you do realize just making a post without substance is pointless right?

anyone can just do what you did for every post on the internet right? Or are yo just wanting to send that website traffic in hopes it might go down in a flood?
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kallethen, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:53am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Only? There's been tons of articles criticizing Clinton, Obama, Bush, and other politicians.

Why is TD focused on Trump now? [b]Because he is now the President-Elect.[/b] We should be critical of him now, as we should be of any of our leaders.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:53am

Re: Re:
Something tells me that you didn't understand a single THING he posted.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
"It is okay for you to disparage people, but not others. Hypocrisy seems to be a bed fellow for you."

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/995/436/e5c.jpg
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
While you are right that it has become a "Team" sport, remember that only ONE team like to use terms such as... Deflecting to attempt to counter an argument without any substance.

If you have something to counter Trump's bullshit other than saying "Hillary this" isn't calling it deflecting accurate?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:55am

Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
I think that is a terrible solution, but Obama did it a lot to Bush... so fair game maybe?
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kenichi tanaka (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:56am

Fact is, I'm glad Trump is president. Our country definitely did not need another 11 trillion dollars in national debt.

Obama joins the ranks of infamous black politicians who have added a massive amount of debt onto our country to which our children will now have to pay for.

Woodrow Stanley, Kwame Kilpatrick, Barrack Obama. The only thing those morons did was raid our treasuries and saddled our country with staggering amounts of debt. Woodrow Stanley and Kwame Kilpatrick saddled Michigan cities with enormous debt, and left office, leaving Emergency Financial Managers in charge, stripping our elected officials of their powers.

Barrack Obama is the worst offender. he's added a staggering amount of debt, more than any Republican has ever did. Obama has saddled our country with $11 trillion dollars in debt. He should be thrown in prison, along with Hillary Clinton.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Is pointing out the pointlessness of a post more pointless than pointing out logical fallacies?

Point. Point. Point.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I haven't found one liberal that can even fake concern for the media's behavior this election cycle. But they can cry fron the roof tops when it comes to Trump

So then did the media cause Trump to lose the election?

I don't understand what you are talking about with the media. He won - are you arguing that the media somehow hurt Trump, causing him to win?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:59am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Why only call out the turd trump?

You're so right.

TD should start calling out the other president-elect as well.

For shame, TechDirt!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:00am

Re:
Yes, but that is why we are called anonymous COWARDS.

The problem with establishing online identities is that too much can be taken out of context and people tend to use them against you. I plan on avoiding that. I have no desired to give the government, local police, my employers, or another other financial/social "self superior malcontents" a way to track what I say online for retribution later.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
He asks the question to give you an opportunity to be wrong. And in the faint hope of you realizing the truth in your attempt to answer: that he doesn't have a "team".
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:03am

Re:
Can I get re-categorized as an anonymous Lazy?

I can't be bothered to sign up.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:04am

Re:
Obama joins the ranks of infamous black politicians who have added a massive amount of debt onto our country to which our children will now have to pay for.

So the two wars in the Middle East just payed for themselves...right-o! I'll bet we even turned a profit until Obama came into office.
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ottermaton (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:04am

Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
kenichi, you're just plain stupid.

our government does not create jobs, they never have

Only a dipshit would write a whole paragraph trying to make that point when it is easily disprovable. Try looking at the Civilian Conservation Corps for a starter.

When you're done with that, you can come back and say, "Ok, there was that ONE time," and I'll be happy to provide you with another example. We can keep doing that until you either get tired of being continually proven wrong or just admit you're talking out of your ass. K?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:05am

Re:
I agree with everything you said, but this is MORE the fault of the Democratic Party and their terrible ability to use their brains for anything other than how to raise taxes and force everyone to pay for their dogmatic principles.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:05am

Re:
Can you explain to me the difference between "the debt" and "the deficit"?

And can you show me the law that gives the president power over the federal budget?
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jupiterkansas (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:05am

Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
The response to anything bad about Trump seems to be "but Hillary!"
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ottermaton (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:06am

Re: Re: Re:
I'm positive you understand nothing at all.

Psst. Here's a hint: Civilian Conservation Corps. That's just a start on a loooooong journey of how wrong you are.
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sevin, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:07am

Every President does it
JFK, LBJ, Nixon, etc. .... all said this kind of stuff privately --- but we only find out about it decades later in obscure papers & memoirs.

Trump is much more open and current. At least you know what he's thinking NOW !

I don't like Trump either -- but there's a huge double-standard in his treatment by the media.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:10am

Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
Good grief... I am certain you have more than two brain cells to rub together right? You completely misunderstood what he said.

And I would hardly consider this even a positive example of "creating" jobs. This type of thing is just an emperors new clothes version of welfare.

I do not disagree with this kind of welfare, but when the source of the funds come from government... well it's welfare. Just like everyone on the Government Payroll up to and including the president. They receive Welfare as compensation for dealing with government issues. They really add a net negative to society to prevent worse negatives from befalling us. though often times they become the very negatives we seek to avoid.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
see my response to your other post.

get a clue fellow human.
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ottermaton (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:15am

Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
Those are JOBS. Created by the goverment.

Here's another (modern day) example of government created jobs.

I can do this all day.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Already addressed it! Try reading over it all again. It will not matter how much cotton wool you use, though it might make a cozy looking statement.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:17am

Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Maybe you should take your own advise and leave.
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ottermaton (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:17am

Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!

And I would hardly consider this even a positive example of "creating" jobs. This type of thing is just an emperors new clothes version of welfare.

This needs responding to as well. Perhaps (in some distorted way of thinking) it was welfare, but it was only needed because of the greed of free market capitalists who caused the Great Depression. FFS.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Everyone has a team, I have one, you have one, he has one.

Yes I could be wrong about the team he is on, but he is on one. It's like Bias, you got it, I have it, he has it, everyone has it. They are just facts of life that cannot be avoided. Anyone saying they don't have them are deceitful and cannot be trusted on its face.

While all his Teams may not be diametrically opposed to mine, there are sure to be a team or two he is on that is oppositional to a few of mine and likely a few teams we find mutual agreement.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:24am

Re:
She lost, get over it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Alliteration... good job human!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:26am

Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
What's funny is you spend half this thread whining about other people calling you names and here you are playing the proud hypocrite.
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You really haven't figured out that this isn't a 'binary' situation yet with only two sides? AND if he was on a side it doesn't really matter as long as the ideas, concepts, and viewpoints discussed are in line and on point.

Please do us a favor and stop distracting the conversation with trying to force us into 'schoolyard level team picking'.

I read the comments for alternate viewpoints to strengthen my own understanding of the issues (all sides) and come here be because this site generally has less of the "what side are you" on bickering... except in this case I am sorely disappointed.

And anybody who has ever been on a debate team knows that the best way to 'win a debate' is to argue the side you are NOT on. But here to "win" is to understand what we are dealing with and make the future better.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Still didn't address your thoughts o.k. the media's collusion with the DNC and HRC. And you say you have no team.
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techflaws (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:31am

Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
"Keep spinning TD, you are only going to drive views away."

Good riddance!
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:34am

Re: Re:
HAHAH! See that is funny because you spent a lot of time and effort in these comments trying to force others onto 'a side' so you could use it against them.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:36am

Re: Re:
The debt is the financial penalty the US government has incurred against the citizens by creating money out of thin air to pay for shit using the Fucking Federal Reserve in complete dereliction of its Constitutional Fucking Duty, which it has most extensively ignored to the glee of many FUCKING idiots.

The deficit is the financial loss America takes when its economic trading polices and practices have placed it into the financial losses bucket.

The president only has the power congress allows them to have over the federal budget, which is why I keep bitching about people to stop blaming presidents for economic problems and to bring them the fuck back to congress... but no... everyone wants a single throat to choke and the president makes a prime target for that.

So can you blame the president? Fuck yes, but only in as much as you put fucking congress right next to their fucking ass at the gallows!
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techflaws (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:39am

Re:
Yeah, I'm sure they all fear your wrath... or something.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:42am

Re: Re: Re:
I am not trying to force a side, numb nuts.

I am trying to tell them that the extra curricular bitching about trump is getting tiresome in certain cases... specifically when they bitch about trump doing something all the others have done, but have not bitched at the previous.

TD could say... yea you are right, so we are now changing that going forward then I can shut the fuck up.

I only bitch mostly about hypocrisy. Usually about how many of you propose the very solutions that will not solve the actual problem at hand.

I do hope TD keeps putting dents into Trump administration, but not at the expense of their appearance. Every since Trump started running for president I have watched TD get too political about certain things... it is a sad sight!
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:43am

Re:
The only failure here is that of the government and until you stop thinking a single person has the power to cause or fix it then you will continue to perpetuate the situation.

Sure the POTUS has a lot of influence but by Constitutional design that position doesn't hold all the power.

And no it isn't just the fault of one party over the other... it is a failure of our Representatives (notice I didn't call them leaders) and the people that vote them into office.

When you boil it down to the absolute reality a politician's job priority is to get re-elected.... that normally manifests itself into big headlines and fundraising opportunities, sometimes their actions even align with ideas that ultimately help the country in the long run.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:50am

Re: Every President does it
those are great points to make!

I agree that I am likely to trust trump more than Hillary because he can't keep his big mouth shut, however... the media and the democrats can't stand it. They absolutely hate it the most when someone has a bigger voice than they do and it drives them batshit as witnessed in this thread.

Sure, I have to admit that I do stir the pot by calling some of them out on it, but it's really hard to not call a bunch of butt hurt hypocritical dipshits a few names. I mean, they can call me names back if they like, but I will never cry over getting called names, the way some of them do.
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok I will take your word at that, but in reading your comments in this thread I will say that you have an odd way of showing it and accomplishing your goal.

May I respectfully suggest you find a debate class to attend? I am all for opposite viewpoints and good dialog and I get the feeling you have the insight to become a great contributor, but your lack of debate discipline undermines everything you are trying to accomplish.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:53am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
I am happy to be wrong if you can provide an article by TD specifically about Obama taking credit for something he had no involvement with.

I know I make mistakes, but I could not find one, and this is my position at the moment!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:57am

Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
None of you guys get it to you?

I said that out of concern that TD is driving people away. Combine this with their earnings and you guys are not concerned either?

Go ahead work for that Pyrrhic victory, it seems to be your bread and butter.

I do not want TD to fail, but many of you, including members of TD, have told me and others to leave. I want you idiots to stop that shit. It is as divisive as fuck and you will only cause TD to fail as people leave because of the hostile environment. It has been happening so much lately that I am concerned about it.

It looks like my comment got flagged by the community though. Talk about a bunch of snowflakes that cannot handle criticism.
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:59am

Re: Re: Every President does it
While I do agree that Trump brings a level of transparency to the office we haven't seen in a long time, his impetuous behavior on Twitter scares me as even in the last few months he has demonstrated that he is easily manipulated because of his ego.

But I can't and DON'T want to believe he is that daft so I tend to think his tweets may all be part of his "negotiation strategy". But if that is the case then it isn't really the transparency at all.

I see Trump in the same light as the fan theory that Jar Jar Binks was really a Sith operative. He was distracting everyone with his bumbling antics while furthering his secret objectives.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:59am

Trump keeps winning
Just read that Ford is keeping production in the US thanks in part to Trump. #MAGA
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Mike Masnick (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I am trying to tell them that the extra curricular bitching about trump is getting tiresome in certain cases...

And yet you never seem to complain when we bitch about Obama.

Funny that.

This entire thread was hijacked by you, pretending that ACTUALLY COVERING BULLSHIT CLAIMS by the President concerning A TOPIC WE COVER is somehow "biased" and we shouldn't bother.

You don't own this place. You're not the editor. When you are, THEN we take editorial orders from you. Until then...
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
I will not argue that TD is at times biased, speculative, and sensationalistic at times and that the commenters can follow suite. I have been reading and lurking here for over a decade. Don't get me wrong I think efforts like yours (and I do believe Mike feels the same) are important to help keep TD honest.

But from what I can have read here I think they are "asking you to leave" because you have shown the tendency to attack the commenters and it is taking away from the message you are trying to get across.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I was not aware that we are following the official rules of Debate.

We can if you like but both sides must agree to the terms and definitions. I am certain you will not achieve agreement. My stance is that TD will drive folks away, I do not want that, but many others here DO want it and are attacking me over it.

If your problem is in regards to how I have framed my 'debate' then there can be no resolution. It trivializes the subject and often forces people into a decorum that marginalizes a side by encumbering it with pointless and arbitrary debate structures.

Most of the left has constantly sought to control the message by instituting themselves as arbiters over the processing of that Message. This is a direct example of why Trump defeated the main stream media in the election. They went out of control and made it clear they cannot overcome their bias in reporting the news and begin to attack others when pointed out. I am seeing that here at TD.

I am not even in the Trump camp, but any attempt to reign the zealots in proves to be a caustic attempt. I do not think these people are capable of reason in their current state of vigor. They care more about the types of words that are used and nothing of message being conveyed.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Could that be because Obama hasn't taken credit for something he had no involvement in?
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hey Mike,

While you are not wrong here I would like to state that is not a good way to CwF (well it is for the ones with a pro TD confirmation bias). But it is your site!

I suggest don't scare them off... if you read between the lines there are some good insights and desire to do good here... we should encourage him/her (and the rest of the internet) to learn how to properly present, argue and debate a point.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I have in the passed bitch when you went over board on Obama.

True I cannot prove that it was me, but in cases where you expected to much and blamed him for the failures I told TD that the problem is with Congress... not the president.

Want to know something? I never get bitched out by the community when I defended Obama... funny that huh?

Look, I do notice bias at TD, is it bad? Not too bad in general, but the Trump stuff is kinda bad. Many others are polarizing people with their hate for Trump, its getting bad. I try to call it out and whamo... people go nuts.

You guys just keep doing your best, I am just a small voice around here and I am fine with that. All I can do is tell you guys when I am worried you are going over board. You need to avoid being antagonistic to the people telling you that you might be hurting your prospects. I also do not blame TD for its forum attack dogs either. But if your site attracts a certain demographic then it pins its bias in reality.

So Yea, defended Obama too... no bitching, say anything in the defense of trump and the nutters get to nutting!

You going to tell me to piss off again? I don't plan on leaving but like you said... I am a nobody hear and my eyes do not matter, right?
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kenichi tanaka (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:18am

Karl Bode must have been one of those "I Love Hillary" supporters because this article REAKS of a sore loser who is angry that Hillary lost. I think he forgot to mention that what our country didn't need is another Democrat president who will add another staggering 11 trillion dollars to our national debt.

I never heard Democrats bitching about when Obama and the Democrats were spending our tax dollars without passing a single federal budget. For the first two years in office, when Democrats controlled everything, they were handing Obama blank checks with no control on spending. They wasted our money and what did we get?

We got a black president who increased food stamps recipients two-fold, we got a mandatory health insurance law that forced Americans to have health insurance or suffer a tax penalty (WTF?) and we got 11 trillion dollars in debt.

Obama did the one thing that Republicans never have done. Obamacare was never about access to health care, it was about protecting the health insurance racket that the Democrats were in bed with. They gave back to Democrats by giving them unprecedented campaign donations.

Democrats got got their celebrity in Obama. Now, Republicans got their own celebrity in Trump. Trump will restore this country back to what it was, a country that is not dependent on food stamps and health insurance.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thank you for that DCL, you are one of the few that gets it.
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Ninja (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:20am

Re: Breaking News!
Like those movies that are unprecedented on TV but have been showing ad nausean for the last 20 years?
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
My point is that the anonymity and disconnect of being on the internet make it easy to forget the rules of decorum (which are not often respected in real life).

So I don't expect that we following official rules, but we are all human (at least I think we are here.. bots have gotten pretty good these days) and there are long established guidelines (they predate the internetwebtubes) for how to have a civil debate and discussion. One can also look to strategies for how couples should argue, there are a lot of professionals that spend their life dealing with the topic of interpersonal conflict resolution.

My suggestion of a debate class is merely to help you become a more effective at spreading your message.

Honestly, I don't care 'what camp' you are in as long as you communicate respectfully and thoughtfully... In this case if you were truly effective in your messaging then it really wouldn't matter either.

But maybe you are "pulling a Trump" by making a lot of noise to get the "crowds" to pay attention to you while you sneak in your message. Hey, the attention part seems to be working so more power to you there, now how are you going to finish the job to convince people you have a real message?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
No, people can call me names all they like. It does not phase me.
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kallethen, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Let's be honest, there probably was something that Obama took credit for that wasn't really. I can't think of an example, but that doesn't mean it couldn't or didn't happen.

But on the flip side, I have to chuckle how the original AC drilled down to a specific thing (pointing out a politician taking credit for something he wasn't really involved in), when the tone of the original post was obviously trying to say we shouldn't criticize Trump because we somehow didn't criticize Obama enough.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:37am

Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
It is welfare, I already said I did not disagree with it.

But, what does the greed of the free market capitalists have to do with it? And no... the banks caused the depression, they are responsible for every depression in the past and the future.

Banks cause depressions until they get what they want, it is how it works. It is the reason fractional banking was invented. Like the Rothchilds said... give me control of a nations currency and I care not who makes its laws.

Another point, greed is not limited to the capitalists or the free-market folks so don't act like they own some majority over it. Greed exists everywhere including in the regulators which is why regulation often results in the very things they were created to prevent. Greed just is and laws need to be created with the idea in mind that the person wielding that law WILL BE GREEDY!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:48am

Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
I should have made it clear I am not referring to the job in the typical sense.

In the scope of government, since the government cannot produce money to the benefit of society, I do not classify any agency or program it creates as creating jobs. I refer to it as creating largess. And as said in the past, this nation will survive until the people can vote themselves largess from the government.

So I do apologize for not making my intent clear in the beginning. Anything done by government is largess and I classify that as diametrically opposed to the general sense of jobs where GDP of the nation is improved.

I am not trying to say that your argument by its definition of job is wrong, just your idea of jobs in the scope of government involvement. In general when the market talks about job creation, it is outside of government activity and due to the unique nature of government, it cannot earn, it can only tax and spend.
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killthelawyers (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 10:50am

Re:
> Trump will restore this country back to what it was, a country that is not dependent on food stamps and health insurance.

Well, dying is a solution to both of those problems.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If speaking the English language, then yes.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!

due to the unique nature of government, it cannot earn, it can only tax and spend.

"Since 1971, the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) has been a self-supporting government agency that covers its operating costs with revenues generated through the sales of postage and related products and services."

Like I said, I can do this all day.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The bucket brigade likes to put people in buckets regardless of its veracity.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:17am

Re: Re:
Hahahaha
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
Okay, I can agree with you 100% on this one. It does directly employ people and does not rely on taxes (intentionally) to operate, despite that it does operate at a loss in actual reality. But it's model is 100% job producing on the market.

You did find a good exception, so I will have to amend my stance to with the exception of departments like USPS the Government does not produce jobs only largess. Your other two examples are not acceptable in my opinion because taxes go into them. I need to watch making those absolute statements... tend to bite right on the ass.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:22am

Re: Re:
" restore this country back to what it was"

Living in the past is a hell of a way to go.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Your points are well taken. I am still working on my grab necks and wring them dry approach during discourse.

Regarding the respectful and thoughtful communication. While they are nice to have, it is erroneous to dismiss arguments because they accompany the discourse. It has been my direct experience that relying on a false sense of decorum is pointless. Decorum should be reserved for official or organized situations and physical presence where people often do not have sufficient emotional control and feels the need to get physically violent because someone hurt their little feelings. That and in cases where there are time limits and things need to be concise for expediency, none of which apply here.

But yea, I think everyone could use some decorum, but that must apply to the passive aggressive comments which often get a pass. They need to observe decorum as well, or keep the pie holes shut. And insult is an insult is an insult, I don't care if you call someone obtuse or a fuckwad, its all the same in the end.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Re:
Living int he future or past means nothing.

there is wisdom from the past that is every bit as valuable still.
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I.T. Guy, 3 Jan 2017 @ 11:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
In-Laws have the kid today... wiLLie?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
NO, the point is do not criticize others while giving out passes as well.

This entire threat sums up my collective disgust for most people in American political parties today. My side and do no wrong, and your side sucks.

I have yet to find a single honest or decent political party in existence. Everyone one of them likes to say "I can't think of any examples where my guy is wrong, but I can find plenty of examples for your guy". TD is acting too much like the main stream media which is one of many reasons why started coming here and now it is starting to appear here. I hope it does not become a common theme.

If I had my way I would abolish all political parties under the threat that anyone associated with out cannot hold political office of any kind.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:03pm

Re: Re: Re:
I was just trying to point out that under Obama, the deficit has actually dropped, and it would be silly to expect the debt to evaporate all at once.

And further trying to point out how silly it is to give the president credit or fault for this considering it's almost entirely the domain of congress (which has been under republican control since midway through Obama's first term and for a decade a couple years before that.)

And the president can veto, but he can't line item veto, he can only veto the whole bill or none of it. And if they did veto everything with the smallest problem in it, nothing would get passed, and they'd get blamed for everything.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
It must the way you butch and moan about it, your highness.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
It must the way you butch and moan about it, your highness.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:17pm

Re:
She lost....get over it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:18pm

Re: Trump keeps winning
Thanks Obama!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
NO, the point is do not criticize others while giving out passes as well.

So then how exactly would reporting on anything work in your world?

Would criticism of Trump taking credit for something he had nothing to do with be accompanied by an obligatory mention of Hillary's emails?

Would criticism of Obamacare have to be accompanied by a footnote about the unfunded Iraq/Afghanistan wars and recession under Bush?

Seems like the trolls come out of the woodwork with claims about free passes and bias (despite "winning") every time there's a mention of Trump. Should there be no reporting at all on him for the next 4 years, just to avoid upsetting people who think that any negative press is "biased?"
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well, is that really Obama's fault that the deficit has improved? Is is really Obama's fault that the debt has spiraled?

I am not saying Obama has no blame in either case, but we need to strap that millstone around congresses neck first.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Every President does it
I don't know if Trump is even close to intelligent enough to pull that off, but you might be right.

I think the real problem is how do you approach someone that does not put up with baloney? He does not appear to have any ulterior motives in the immediate sense thought I think the has an agenda of some kind regardless.

What are his secret objectives? I would definitely like to know so I can add my comments on those as well.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
lol, I Hate Bush quite a bit, he should be in the same jail cell as Obama and Hillary.

I generally like TD's articles, but this one is over the top in bias. What about the rest of Trump's bombastic claims? Hell Trump is having too much power in the economy which is a very big deal and TD is not saying "Hey Congress!!!! You gonna reign this assclown in or what?" Where is that article? If they are going to focus on something this pointless and petty, I have to call it out! But like Mike said... I can go suck eggs cause I don't run TD.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Where are the reasonable people like YOU? TD needs more of you.

That said, I find dissonance in your logic. I only attacked them in response. My first volley was on the article not the commenters. Why am I the only one required to observe decorum while they are not?

It appears that only passive aggressive insults are allowed despite being every bit as insulting as a direct one. An insult is still an insult.
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thank you for reading and responding to my comment with an open mind.

I did not mean to infer that only comments and replies of a certain standard and quality are to be responded to, but rather it is not a requirement to respond in kind and with the same technique when they don't. I find that name-calling, threats, and personal attacks only add drama and rarely add substantial benefit to the discussion at hand.

While I agree with you that it would be foolish to blindly rely on a 'false sense of decorum', I strongly disagree with your inference that because not everybody is treating a conversation and other commenters with respect that it is ok to do the same. I also disagree that it should only be reserved for specific 'official and organized' situations as it is. I think you may be taking my "use of debate rules" a bit too literally when I really just mean general rules for respectful discussion/debate.

This first search result I found sums it up nicely... I am referring to the techniques in "Method 1", not the more formal "Method 2". There are also a lot of good points on http://www.wikihow.com/Argue for how to keep things civil.

And to finish my post... to me there is a substantial difference between a 'jab' at somebody for the sake of a humorous moment, childish name calling and a personal attacks.... unfortunately the difference is dependent on the thickness of one's skin as well as print/text not being the best medium to convey sarcasm correctly.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You have to admit, the Democrats do stick together, even when their apples are bad!
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DCL, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Thank you for the compliment. I have worked hard to become "reasonable". :)

I just answered one of your other comments with a similar topic... So here I will simply leave that I have trouble accepting the logic "If everyone else is not playing nicely why do I have to" as being a valid reason devolve into a lower standard of response.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I am not sure I could be confused with having an open mind, but thank you for the compliment! I am fairly opinionated and biased about a great many things. But my primary focus is with intellectual honesty. I make a point to never hold two contrary values as so many others do. I have found peoples reliance on a false sense of security like the TSA for example to be extremely off putting. Decorum is a theater and I much prefer to have someones honest opinions about subjects. I only care if they hold contradictory values.

I can certainly understand having decorum but there are situations where that decorum can prevent having a conversation as well... like walking on eggs shells. It really does not matter how gracefully I said something, it is just that I said it and there is no going back. No matter how much creme or sugar is poured on top.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes, they give themselves participation awards like the little lightbulb icon next to their post. Yet they never address the question. AC pointed out the media's involvement with the left to go along with the articles point about giving Trump a pass. They immediately jump on him and play team sports while decrying team sports. This is why the left is losing and losing badly.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 1:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
The left blamed Bush for about the first 6 and half years of Obama's presidency and now you cry if the right does it?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Hell Trump is having too much power in the economy which is a very big deal and TD is not saying "Hey Congress!!!! You gonna reign this assclown in or what?" Where is that article?

Given that Republicans control both houses, I'd imagine that the article would be your question followed by a response of "No."

Not even newsworthy.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
It is not my intent to absolve myself of any blame for the things I have said, I accept responsibility. I am just asking why I am judged on scales that are weight differently? And that is not targeted at you, but TD in general.

The time I was just as foul defending Obama no one had much to say... do it for Trump and it all comes out of the wood works. It appears there is now a reddit like hive mind effort to flag several of my comments while others of equal value remain. It is my desire to prove a point that this mentality brings division and lost viewership to TD.

Have you ever been to a situation that has to be stirred to prove what it's end result will be? That is me.

Like Genghis is believed to have once said...
“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”
“Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard.”

This is the type of honesty I like. Something that many people do not like. Genghis was honest to a fault, most people would always know where they stand with him. Unlike most whom like to turn into frenemies where they wait for you to turn your back and stab it. Genghis was not just good at murdering people... or he would have been no kind of a leader, yet he has some very wise things to say in very terrible ways.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They sure do, and flag posts they don't like.

I always read flagged posts to see what they said and ask... why was that flagged? They should realize that flagging a post might have the Streisand effect instead.

If I had any faith that only posts about selling something were flagged I would avoid them, but nope, I have to enable scripts and see what is there. I am always interested in someone elses opinion, even if I am about to take it to task for it. I am a very big believer in Freedom of Speech.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Didn't your mama teach you? If you didn't have anything to do with it, then don't take credit for it...
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kallethen, 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
Perhaps part of the reason is how Trump is presenting his involvement. He doesn't work by simple and quiet press releases and press conferences. He shoots out posts on Twitter, loudly proclaiming his deeds with a proverbial bullhorn. TD has posted an article about it because Trump made it a talking point.

However, I still contend that TD has not given out free passes. They've poked at whatever grevious talking points other politicians created (for example, Obama's promised transparency that never came to be).

This entire threat sums up my collective disgust for most people in American political parties today. My side and do no wrong, and your side sucks.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you on this point. It's not just politics, but society in general that has galvanized into an "Us vs. Them."
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Mike Masnick (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
TD is not saying "Hey Congress!!!! You gonna reign this assclown in or what?" Where is that article?

That article (or our version of it) is here. And we wrote about it during the Obama administration. So, you can apologize now.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160306/07562633815/abuse-power-laws-should-be-designed-as-i f-people-we-distrust-most-are-power.shtml

My problem with you is not that you are criticizing us, but that you are doing so in such a ridiculous manner. You don't like this post, fine, but you don't give any reason other than that 1. that we apparently didn't criticize Obama (we did) and 2. this is "petty".

That's your opinion and we disagree. Things related to telcos and jobs and mergers is very much what we talk about here, so this is very, very relevant. And that's my point.

I apologize if I was flip before in my response before. Perhaps it was because you started this off with such a ridiculous criticism, and you continue to use stupid nicknames for Presidents, which tends to be a sign of someone who is trolling, not serious.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 2:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
I almost broke the "insightful" button. You do realize your wasting your time even still right? The militant left, and you know who they are on this site, will spend the next 4 years bashing Trump, just as they spent the last 8 years blaming Bush for Obama's failures. Even if Trump is a smashing success, he's still going to get bashed. Just sit back and watch the show, I'll even share my popcorn :)
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 3:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
Thanks for the popcorn! I have been a reader here for a while and am about to throw int the towel. Everyone has opinions and beliefs, but the left cannot discuss anything without smokescreens, insults and name calling. Thankfully they are losing and hopefully it will stay that way. If you can't defend your ideology civilly, it might be because it is indefensible.
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Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 3 Jan 2017 @ 4:46pm

Re: When are people going to wake up and realize that our government does not create jobs
When they find some other institution that is a bigger employer than the US Government?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 5:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
Yes, "the left" is so baaaad
while "the right" is so gooood.

Everything is left/right, black/white, right/wrong.
There is no grey, no middle ground and certainly no compromise, take no prisoners, everyone is a crook.

Do you ever get tired of this same old bullshit?
Ever get the feeling someone is lying to you?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 5:15pm

Re:
Last I checked, one did not need an account in order to post here, did something change? I am still posting anon, no account. How in the hell am I doing this?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 5:20pm

Re: Re:
And the wars were not on the balance sheet, in the budget, or accurately accounted for.

Obama left in place the Bush bailouts but is held responsible when W is not?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 5:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You really think government uses wisdom from the past?

Hell, they can make the same mistake over a period of weeks, blame it on someone else and then wag their fingers at the poor fall guy while whining about poor press coverage.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 6:33pm

Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
It looks like my comment got flagged by the community though. Talk about a bunch of snowflakes that cannot handle criticism.

Looking over the comments that got flagged, that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Many of your comments (and those of people who agree with you) did not get flagged. The ones that did appear to have gratuitous insults.

From what we've seen gratuitous insults and extreme red team/blue teamism seem to get flagged. Maybe avoid those things.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 7:33pm

Re: Re: Re:
Techdirt and most other inline sites do the same. So?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Don't pay yourself in the back too hard there with your other IP address.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Pat*
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"No deflecting here."

Uh-huh, right

"Exactly. The MSM let Obama and Hillary create a false narrative and should not do this for Trump."

which was your response to

".. he's not merely trolling. He's creating a narrative"

So Paul says trump creates a narrative, to which you reply that MSM let Obama and Hillary create a narrative. And you do not consider this to be something covered by the definition of the word "deflection"? In the political usage, this is the very definition of the word.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I take it that you know few "liberals"
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 8:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
"I should have made it clear I am not referring to the job in the typical sense."

Face Palm .... seriously?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
Yup, greed is ubiquitous.
And it seems that some folk are more capable of dealing with their impulses (greed is one of them) than are others. So do not try to say everyone is equally guilty of being greedy, because we all know that is bullshit.
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techflaws (profile), 3 Jan 2017 @ 9:45pm

Re: Re: Re: whoops... don't drop that bias...
None of you guys get it to you?

I said that out of concern that TD is driving people away.

OR, it could be that people understand what actually is bias and what isn't - some people even manage that when the author doesn't share their opinion.

Do you get that?
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PaulT (profile), 4 Jan 2017 @ 12:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You seem to hallucinate a lot about me and my positions while never addressing anything I actually say. You only complain about how I say it. Why is that?

"pass off anyone that does not agree with your logic as nothing but children to be ignored"

No, just the ones who act like children. Plus, you claim I think you should be ignored, but you've done nothing but whine about how I address you. I bet you don't even see the contradiction.
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PaulT (profile), 4 Jan 2017 @ 12:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Still didn't address your thoughts o.k. the media's collusion with the DNC and HRC."

Those are not my thoughts, that's a random phrase. Did you have an actual question or something I've said to address? You've just inserted a random assumption because you're dumb enough to believe there's only 2 "teams" and even people without an American political affiliation has to be on one "team" so you have to assign them one.

This is why you're treated like fools, you're not addressing the real world and having to make things up about others before you talk to them.
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PaulT (profile), 4 Jan 2017 @ 12:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"do tell us which side you are on"

Why do I have to be on a "side"? How many "sides" do you think there are? There's more than 2 in the real world.

Define the parameters of what you're talking about. If you want me to say ""left" or "right" or "republican" or "democrat", you've reduced the real world down to a ridiculous fiction and I won't play that game. But, then, if you were discussing reality you wouldn't be blathering on about "sides"

"It does not matter what we think right?"

Not if you're playing the stupid team game where there's only 2 teams and you have to defend your side at all costs, no.
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PaulT (profile), 4 Jan 2017 @ 12:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Everyone has a team, I have one, you have one, he has one."

So, you are one of those idiots. OK.

Come back when you're ready to talk like an adult about various political beliefs, where some agree and some do agree but we all have unique stances. Not the childish game you're playing where you think you'll win if you can just pretend you're arguing against another "team".
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PaulT (profile), 4 Jan 2017 @ 12:45am

Re: Re: Every President does it
"They absolutely hate it the most when someone has a bigger voice"

Yes, I hate blowhards, especially when they're mouthing off in ways that actually reduces the effectiveness of what they're trying to do. Even if I did agree with him (and I certainly don't), I'd want someone else in the position because they'd be better at the job.

That's reality in my mind, though. I've had bosses who were egotistical blowhards who sabotaged their own companies with their words and ignorance, scummy micromanagers who chased away all their talent and people who I didn't really like or trust but were effective leaders who got results. I'd rather have the likeable leader who knew what they were doing over any of those guys, but the egotist really was the worst of the worst.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Jan 2017 @ 7:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
I took what he said as meaning the "extreme" left. As in the ones on this site that practice the very bias you reference in your post. They, as with their extreme right counterparts, have convinced themselves that they are correct, and anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong. They will post a thousand times and argue the smallest point to the bone in an effort to make themselves feel morally and intellectually superior. Discounting entire arguments because of grammar or because of commenters misunderstanding of the meanings of basic words when English is obviously not their first language. They must be spending hours writing and posting, each day. I think it's pathetic, but think of it how you want, that's just my opinion.
I choose to look at the big picture. The left is losing ground horribly, in all facets of government. Their narratives have lost steam and the people don't trust them anymore. IMO It's not because of the ideals or the "platform". It's because of they way they feel compelled to ram their policies down everyone's throat with little or no thought to the long term effects. Racist this, transgender that, immigration and globalization, these terms are like clubs the left continuously use to beat the crap out of anyone that disagrees or doesn't think like they do. The people are tired of it. The extreme Right have their issues too, but they didn't seem to be cramming it down everyone's throat quite as badly... well, until Trump that is.
Speaking of Trump; IMO The Left is responsible for Trump. They won't admit it, they won't (usually) acknowledge it, but they are. All they had to do was field a half assed candidate that was semi-likeable and they would have won easily. The Left did this. Now they, like the Right with Obama, get to live with it.

These are of course my opinions. Think what you want.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Jan 2017 @ 8:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs ACTUALLY created by the gov't. Omg!
Operational revenues are restricted by congressional rules. If the Post Office were allowed to set rates themselves, they'd be profitable.

Of course, they have a government-issued monopoly on delivering letters, which is why you can't send a letter through UPS unless you pay package rates.

It's also worth considering that although NASA may not be directly profitable, the actual value of the technologies they have developed and delivered to the American people far outstrips any private technology firm. https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html
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jupiterkansas (profile), 4 Jan 2017 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
Bush was actually president for 8 years and did things worth blaming him for. It would be one thing to blame Obama for things he actually did, but the "but Hillary!" people are just deflecting attention away from Trump's inadequacies.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Jan 2017 @ 8:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
Speaking of Trump; IMO The Left is responsible for Trump. They won't admit it, they won't (usually) acknowledge it, but they are. All they had to do was field a half assed candidate that was semi-likeable and they would have won easily.

As opposed to the right, who out of 16 or so candidates, couldn't run someone better?

Yeah, sure.

Funny how the "party of personal responsibility" seems to have none for anything.
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GEMont, 4 Jan 2017 @ 10:56am

Parasitic Political Perfection!
Since I was completely fooled by the election of T. Rump to the Awful Orifice, I've been thinking... why would Korporate Amerika want such an ass-hat as the T. Rump, occupying the position, rather than the cash-tamed poodle, Hillarious?

And then it hit me...

Maybe the Korporate Rulers of Amerika wanted to insert their real choice through the obvious process of impeachment of the T. Rump, AFTER the T. Rump had fulfilled his part of the deal, in exchange for money, power and a clean legal slate.

After all, 50% of Fascism is a false front, or Facade.
(The other 50% is simply monumental greed.)

The real plan would look something like this then.

First, fix the election. That just takes money and time and most of the work was accomplished by the Bush administration.

Then, while in office, the T. Rump drops all of the pre-written executive orders into place, that give Korporate Amerika all they want. Everyone knows that he will change a wack of shit for his billionaire friends, so that will seem normal to all the peons.

Then, once he has removed all the impediments to fully legalised profiteering and public rapine by billionaires, the T.Rump will be impeached for whatever - the list of his known crimes is already long and the list of things everyone would easily believe him guilty of, seems eternal - and he will be loudly removed from office.

Because he was Prez4ADay, and as part of the original deal, the T.Rump serves no time, and retires back to his mansion with a brand spanking new off-shore bank account full of cash, all his known crimes magically washed away, a fabulous retirement package with 24 hour a day secret service protection for life for his entire fam damily, and all his pending law suits fully laundered, pressed and folded away - one very, very happy crook.

Then Hillarious (or the hidden real Korporate Klown), steps in to take charge without having to do any of the dirty work at all.

Corporate Amerika gets all the legal changes they want.

The T.Rump gets money, power, and all his legal problems fixed and insures his family's dynasty at the Tax payer's expense.

The American Public gets it up the ass and blames it all on the T. Rump, who could not give a shit what Americans think of him so long as he stays richer than God.

Clinton, or the VP or an as-of-yet un-announced Ringer gets to play Prez for the Korporates without having to take any blame for all the legal shit that the T. Rump put into place.

Of course while promising to do so, the new POTUS will do nothing to remove any of those corporate-written executive orders.

Situation Normal, purposely AFU.

The Train to Freedom is renamed the Train to Fascism, and none of the peon passengers notice the switch.

Parasitic Political Perfection!

---
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Jan 2017 @ 1:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
"As opposed to the right, who out of 16 or so candidates, couldn't run someone better?"

He won didn't he? I agree its a shame they couldn't field a better candidate, but if the goal was to win, they succeeded right?

You can point at the Right all you want. The Right should have lost. The Left screwed this one up bad. They had it, they new it, look at the amazement on the reporters, analysts, and political advisors faces when the tally came in. It was theirs to lose, and that's exactly what they did.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Jan 2017 @ 2:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"I was just trying to point out that under Obama, the deficit has actually dropped, and it would be silly to expect the debt to evaporate all at once."

True. But if you read up on why it dropped you'll find he hasn't played a very big role in WHY it dropped. That ball was in motion before he even stepped into office. Not to say he doesn't get some credit, he does, but you don't REALLY start seeing major long term economic changes due to policy until the second or third year.. read up on it if you don't believe me.
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The Wanderer (profile), 5 Jan 2017 @ 7:52am

Re:
Just to correct one point:

The Affordable Care Act, as passed, is not what the Obama administration originally proposed for health-care reform. It's a longstanding conservative proposal, which had been backed by Republicans for quite some time before that, including (at the state level) by none other than Mitt Romney.

The original version of the health-care reform proposal, as I recall it - and the second version, after the first got shot down - had nothing to do with requiring people to buy health insurance on the private market. Instead, it involved a "public option", in which people who couldn't get affordable health care through private insurers could get it through the government instead, subsidized by tax dollars.

As I remember it, what happened is:

* Obama made a health-care reform proposal which involved a public option, based on liberal viewpoints about how such a thing should be done.

* Republicans screamed bloody murder about socialism.

* Obama dropped the original proposal, and started over with something closer to the Republican position, in an attempt to meet them in the middle.

* Rather than softening their position and coming closer to his proposed middle ground, Republicans screamed bloody murder again.

* Obama dropped his new proposal and started over with a long-established conservative proposal which had been backed by Mitt Romney - essentially conceding the entire ideological argument, for the sake of getting health-care reform done in _some_ form.

* Republicans screamed bloody murder a third time.

* Obama pushed reform through anyway - and _that_ is what we now call Obamacare: the second-generation "anything Obama proposes is bad" Republican proposal for what reform should look like.

Trying to spin this as Obama trying to protect the private health-insurance racket - even if protectionism for that industry is what the end result winds up looking like - is just ludicrous, IMO.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 8:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
He won didn't he? I agree its a shame they couldn't field a better candidate, but if the goal was to win, they succeeded right?

And if that's the case, who voted for him?

Lemme guess...the left?

I'm going to continue to point at the right because that's where the blame lies. They wanted him, they voted for him, and now he's all theirs.

Own it.

Their votes made it happen.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 9:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
The people didn't vote for someone they liked, they voted for what they thought was the lesser of 2 evils. IMO The left could have fielded any other candidate and won, but they didn't. They let Hillary lie and cheat her way onto the ticket, and the American people answered with Trump. But keep pointing that finger if it makes you feel better.

"he's all theirs. "

If your American, he's yours too. Like it or not, he is going to be your President.

"I'm going to continue to point at the right because that's where the blame lies. "

And the left will continue to lose. Almost a thousand state seats, the Presidency, both houses of Congress, and multiple SCOTUS appointments isn't enough to tell them they are doing it wrong, then they get what they deserve.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 9:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
The people didn't vote for someone they liked, they voted for what they thought was the lesser of 2 evils

Sure - so again, it's the left's fault for who the right voted for. Lemme guess, we're also responsible for who the right nominated as well. That clown car of fuck ups is also the left's fault.

Got it. He's the best you have. And it's our fault.

And the left will continue to lose. Almost a thousand state seats, the Presidency, both houses of Congress, and multiple SCOTUS appointments isn't enough to tell them they are doing it wrong, then they get what they deserve.

And because we're doing it wrong, we're also responsible for who you nominate, run, etc...

My original statement stands - you own it. Like it or not. Don't worry - we'll be here to clean up the mess.

Again.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 10:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
"Sure - so again, it's the left's fault for who the right voted for."

The Left and Right don't decide elections, independent's do. Neither side can win without them. Last I checked they made up 45% ish of voters. Who you going to blame now for the Left's failed policies name calling, and piss poor blame gaming?

You got your ass whooped. Own that. Trump is going to shape SCOTUS for at least a generation. You control almost nothing in Government both Federal and State, and you have a circus clown in the white house. LOL But of course all that is the Right's fault right? HAHA
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
The Left and Right don't decide elections, independent's do.

I see. So when you said:

Speaking of Trump; IMO The Left is responsible for Trump. They won't admit it, they won't (usually) acknowledge it, but they are. All they had to do was field a half assed candidate that was semi-likeable and they would have won easily.

You really meant the independents. Got it.

Who you going to blame now for the Left's failed policies name calling, and piss poor blame gaming?

Given that it's you that blames the left for who you nominated and elected, I'd suggest that you up your own game first.

Trump is going to shape SCOTUS for at least a generation.

Don't forget that's because republicans refused to do their jobs. I'm sure that's our fault too.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:15am

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So it's the Republicans fault that Obama created a failed health care system? Was their ANYTHING at all that Obama did do wrong during his Presidency? I mean hell, if we can spin that, we could spin anything.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:24am

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You know, you've replied a whole bunch of times telling me everything wrong with the left.

However, after reading this again something occurred to me - why wouldn't the right want to take credit for Trump, given how bad the left is?

If he's going to be such a lightning rod that's going to clean up the mess that is Washington, why on earth wouldn't they want to say they're responsible?

Again, if the left has it so wrong, why would you say we're responsible for him, apart from distancing yourself from him?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:28am

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LOL. No matter what you say, no matter how you spin it.... the LEFT lost and lost big. They lost in a way that will set them back for at least a decade. The right didn't "build that", the left did it to themselves. Yes the independents pulled the trigger, but the left held the gun for them.

You keep saying you, like I nominated someone. You do realize that as an Independent I can't vote in the primaries in my state right? I think there is what, 18 or so states like that? So I personally had nothing to do with either candidate, neither did any other Independent in this state. So yes, my statement holds true.

The independents of my state voted for who they thought was the lesser of two evils. Trump won only because the Left didn't field a candidate that was worth a shit. If the Burn would have won the Dem primaries, and the Dems had not let Hillary lie and cheat her way in, I would have voted for him. So yes. The Left IMO is DIRECTLY responsible for Trump winning.

"Don't forget that's because republicans refused to do their jobs. I'm sure that's our fault too."

Don't be mad because the Repubs are using the tools at their disposal to get what they want. If the tables were turned, the Dems would be doing the exact same thing.

The Left lost, and it's their own fault no matter how you spin it.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:39am

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"wouldn't the right want to take credit for Trump, given how bad the left is?"

Fair question. I'll tell you what I think.

Trump is a wild card. He's spontaneous, irrational, flies by the seat of his pants, and no one knows exactly what he is going to say or do next, not even the Right, and they can't stand that. They don't like him, easy to prove by how long it took the rank and file Republicans to endorse and fall in line with him. I would even go so far as to say they hated him, and for good reason. But what they did bet on, was that he'd win. I think winning was more important to them than the candidate. They are probably thinking they can bring him into the fold, and mold him into what they want. It might work too. Look at who he's surrounding himself with.

The LEFT fielded the most disingenuous, controversy ridden, scandal laden, horrible public speaking, possibly mentally damaged but definitely with major health issues candidate they had. Trump is an idiot true, but damn man Hillary is as crooked and dangerous as they come. Our choices were pathetic, but we HAD to make a choice.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:40am

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The Left IMO is DIRECTLY responsible for Trump winning.

Fair enough.

So all those jobs that are staying because of him?

You're fucking welcome. No credit to you - it's all our fault. Trump's our fault. You said so.

Dow surging to 20,000?

Thank a democrat.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:46am

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I see.

So as long as they don't take credit when something "great" happens under his administration, I don't personally care what their motivation is.

I'm ready to take credit for him, and all of the great things that are happening, giving the right no credit at all.

After all:

The Left IMO is DIRECTLY responsible for Trump winning.

Might as well embrace that and say "right-o - you're fucking welcome for all those jobs!"

Everyone! Thank a democrat for Trump today!
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:50am

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He bought those jobs, he didn't convince anyone to do shit. It was a flat out bribe. Look it up if you don't believe me. As far as the Dow surging; The markets are very emotion driven, you have to look at the long term effects to really see whats happening. IMO Obama actually gets credit for our current market state.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:51am

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Now your just being childish. Come back when you've grown up.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Trump!
He bought those jobs, he didn't convince anyone to do shit.

Bull shit - just ask Trump. And given the left is responsible for him, then they deserve the credit.

IMO Obama actually gets credit for our current market state.

Oh no, no, no, no! It's because of Trump - again, thank a democrat for that.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2017 @ 11:56am

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Nothing childish at all.

You assert the left is DIRECTLY responsible for him (your words), and I say fine - if we're responsible, then all of the great things he's doing are solely because of us.

Unless you're saying we're responsible for anything negative about him, but nothing positive. And that would just be bullshit, would it not?
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The Wanderer (profile), 6 Jan 2017 @ 5:19am

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I didn't say anything about fault. The ACA has numerous flaws; I was more in favor of the original public-option proposal. I fault Obama for conceding entirely to the Republicans' objections to his first two proposals, rather than insisting they meet him in the middle somehow. (I actually think that when they screamed bloody murder over _their own established position_ after he backed it, he should have gone back and pushed through one of the earlier proposals instead.)

Obama did many things wrong during his Presidency; you'll find documentation of some of them in the archives of this very Website. The Affordable Care Act is part of what he did wrong, and parts of what make it wrong are his (or at least his administration's) doing - but the original idea that the rest of it was built on was not his to begin with, and he would not have run with that idea if the Republicans hadn't objected so intractably to his original proposals.
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