State Dept. Memo To End Leaks Promptly Leaks To The Media

from the grilled-leaks dept

Thu, Mar 2nd 2017 1:19pm — Timothy Geigner

The phone calls are coming from inside the house, it seems. The newly minted Trump government has suffered under one of the most porous climates in recent Presidential memory, with leaks leaking to the press from seemingly everywhere. This is happening for several reasons, which include enabling technology for such leaks to occur, the controversial nature of our current President and some of his actions, and the fact that, whatever else one might want to say about President Trump, his administration is certainly active, meaning there is much more about which to leak. This has led to Trump, along with members of his team, making strange noises about a crackdown of these leaks. The threats incorporated in this crackdown have included FBI investigations (where many of the leaks have come from), random phone checks by the communications staff with Sean Spicer playing Angry Dad, and the promise of the purging of any longstanding government staffers suspected of leaking information to the press.

And, yet, the leaks persist. And they often persist in laughable ways. We already had Spicer's phone-check and leak-plugging emergency meeting with his staff leak to the press. Now the Washington Post has an article all about the State Department's memo that warned State staff against leaking anything to the press.

The State Department legal office prepared a four-page memo for Secretary of State Rex Tillerson warning of the dangers of leaking by State Department employees. It promptly leaked, to me. That’s only the latest sign that the relationship between the Trump administration political appointees and the State Department professional workforce is still very much a work in progress.

The Feb. 20 memo by State Department acting legal adviser Richard Visek to Tillerson is entitled “SBU: Protecting Privileged Information.” The SBU stands for Sensitive But Unclassified, a designation used on documents that are not technically secret but also not supposed to be shared. The memo itself is marked SBU and begins with detailed explanation of how and when Tillerson has the privilege of protecting certain types of information from public disclosure, such as anything that has to do with internal State Department deliberations. But the bulk of the memo is devoted to arguments for clamping down on unauthorized disclosures of sensitive information, also known as leaking.

One can only hope that whoever leaked the memo to the Washington Post chuckled to themselves as they did so -- so tasty the irony was. Look, it's understandable why a White House or government would be irritated by press leaks. But trying to wage some kind of war against them is only going to result in the administration looking very, very foolish, as it does in this story. Leaks have always been a thing in government. They always will be. Trump can shake his fist angrily at the clouds all he wants, but the rain will still come. Even Tillerson's admittedly tightened grip over the State Department isn't going to help.

Several State Department officials told me that they see evidence of an effort by Tillerson to stymie leaking is already underway. For example, detailed readouts of Tillerson’s meetings with foreign officials are no longer distributed widely inside the building, leaving officials in relevant bureaus unsure exactly what transpired. Another official told me Tillerson has shortened the list of officials allowed inside the daily 9:15 a.m. senior staff meeting, which has previously served as a key channel through which various State Department offices and bureaus learn about the day’s agenda and get direction from the secretary’s office. A third State Department official told me he was instructed to make requests for policy information and guidance over the phone or in person, rather than commit any policy discussions to an email that might be leaked.

Making government less efficient in the interest of plugging leaks works against good government operations and obviously isn't solving the problem.

And, like so many things Trump, there's no consistency in his anger on the topic. Trump was perfectly happy to discuss leaks from the DNC while on the campaign trail. In addition to that, members of both his campaign team and his administration are known to regularly leak information to the press for the purposes of steering media discussion in the President's favor. As with so many things, it's fine if Team Trump does it, but not anyone else.

Regardless, it sure will be fun to watch the White House attempt to keep press leaks from being a thing. After all, if you can't even keep the memos about not leaking from leaking, the really good stuff is almost sure to come out.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: administration, journalism, leaks, sean spicer, state department, white house

73 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Mason Wheeler (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:17pm

the fact that, whatever else one might want to say about President Trump, his administration is certainly active, meaning there is much more about which to leak.

This has long been one of my observations about American politics: Democrats are, generally speaking, well-meaning but ineffective, whereas Republicans really know how to get things done, but the things they get done tend to be horrifying!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:30pm

Re:
I know many people that think the opposite, that Republicans are ineffective and Dems know how to get things done but when they do, it tends to be horrifying.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:36pm

Is there anybody, or anything, that Trump and his cronies cannot pick a fight with?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:36pm

Re: Re:
Maybe they can even provide their anecdotes themselves.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Roger Strong (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:45pm

Re:
Russia.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Baron von Robber, 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:46pm

But Baron von Drumpf said he LOVES leaks! Leaks are great!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Pixelation, 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:46pm

For all of Trumps claims..
For all of Trumps claims of running a tight ship, it sure is leaky!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:49pm

Re:
Can leaks still be called leaks when they appear to be more like fire-hoses?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Roger Strong (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:50pm

Re: Re:
Wait...

Was that one of those "rhetorical" questions people keep telling me about?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 1:59pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yes.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Baron von Robber, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:02pm

Re: Re:
Perhaps a golden shower, colendar fountain. :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:03pm

What is the limit?
You're getting a good laugh at leaks, but what is the limit? Would you be laughing if the leaks were a list a names of our operatives around the world? What if the leaks caused someone to commit suicide?

The casual laughing at leaks here is troubling.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:06pm

Re: What is the limit?
If they were leaks like you mention, probably not, but they aren't. So, do you have a point?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Baron von Robber, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:06pm

Re: What is the limit?
Has that happened recently?
Last time was during GWB's admin.

and you misspelled karma.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re:
Well, a leak in a dam leads to a flood when the dam gives way.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:12pm

Re: What is the limit?
You make a good point. If this thing was a different thing, would it be the same thing?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:14pm

When more than their egos are hurt
Why wouldn't people be laughing at Trump and co running around like they're trying to fix a busted dam by sticking sand in the holes?

When a given leak does more than simply make them look foolish, then that particular leak can be addressed as crossing the line, but as it stands you've got people that really should know better acting like fools and rightly being laughed at for it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:39pm

Serious op-sec needed
Some serious op-sec overhauls are needed.

Check you personal phones at the door, you'll get it back when you leave at the end of the day.

No papers taken home.

No electronic storage devices taken home.

Official messaging is only handled via official channels.

If you need a cellphone to preform your job function then you will be assigned a cellphone owned by the govt agency you work for.

No personal business on company owned computers or phones.

Feeding suspected leakers altered or false information in an effort to ferret out and confirm who's leaking.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
BentFranklin (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:40pm

Do you mean like when Bush and Cheney leaked Valerie Plame's name? Yes, that would be abhorrent.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:49pm

Re: Serious op-sec needed
What are they gonna do, neuralyze people on their way out the door?

If the memo hadn't leaked, a description of it would have.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 2:59pm

Re:
That wasn't Bush or Cheney, it was Richard Armitage. If you can't get a simple fact like that correct, why should we care what else you wrote?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 3:11pm

Seems the Trump administration decided to be more transparent than the Obama administration
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ryuugami, 2 Mar 2017 @ 3:12pm

Those who don't learn from fiction...

Even Tillerson's admittedly tightened grip over the State Department isn't going to help.

Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 2 Mar 2017 @ 3:16pm

Re: Democrats are, generally speaking, well-meaning but ineffective...
Obama passed the Affordable Care Act, opened relations with Cuba, and got Iran to agree to a nuclear deal.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 2 Mar 2017 @ 3:18pm

Re: Re:
And it wasn't Nixon who broke into Watergate, it was James McCord. What's your point?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Uriel-238 (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 4:02pm

Horrifying things getting done
Hmmm... maybe you guys can be more specific. When I think of horrifying, I think of things like the Extrajudicial Detention and Torture Program (which was started by Bush and continued by Obama) or the Drone Strike program that massacres entire villages of civilians (started by Obama. Bush sent in private security contractors, aka mercenaries do do his massacring).

There's also the NSA mass surveillance thing, which was going in 2003 (Bush) became fully operational on Obama's watch and hasn't really slowed down even after the Snowden revelations. I'd have thought Obama would have restricted or dismantled it, but he dug too deep and too greedily, I guess.

The thing is, Trump isn't slowing any of these things down and in fact has expressed eagerness to step these policies up.

(Actually Trump hasn't talked about -- and may not yet be fully aware of -- the massive NSA intelligence-gathering complex. I'm quaking in my boots terrified of the day Trump realizes he can use this agency to start identifying and mass-disappearing dissenters, and there will be nothing we can do to stop him.)

In the meantime, Trump's agenda seems to be to dismantle some pretty important federal programs: environmental protection and conservation, clean air and water, education, labor and consumer affairs, social security, welfare, foreign aid...

In fact, he seems to want to dismantle everything except the police and military. If this wasn't the United States of America, our nation being categorically exceptional and above such things, I'd say he's prepping for a coup d'état.

Trump is also ratcheting up persecution of immigrants, including many who are here with legal documentation. Also including many non-whites that look too immigranty (since we citizens are not required to carry or own proof of citizenship). Also poor people that CBP or ICE just doesn't like very much. Right now, despite the suspension of the travel ban, we're still seeing an increase of detentions at the borders. Also raids on families who (to Trump, and possibly only to Trump) qualify as bad hombres.

Trump is also halting asset forfeiture reform, so that law enforcement can continue to rob Americans at will at a rate higher than all the burglaries in the US.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt that thermonuclear holocaust may be an improbable horror, despite that Trump has expressed specific interest in modernizing and utilizing the US thermonuclear stockpiles. But, The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, who moved their doomsday clock up by thirty seconds on account of one man in power (to 2:30 to midnight) are less optimistic than I am.

So in comparison to these, I'm curious what horrors Democrats have recently (since 1990) unleashed upon the unsuspecting population of the US?

Easier abortion access and gay marriage, maybe?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 5:09pm

Re: Horrifying things getting done
"So in comparison to these, I'm curious what horrors Democrats have recently (since 1990) unleashed upon the unsuspecting population of the US?"

your bias won't let you understand.

Each party builds upon the sins of each other, while whipping you sycophants into a frenzy. You are nothing but rabid attack dogs snarling and biting in the direction your "masters" point you.

Who is less guilty? The one who held the victim down, while the other murders them? Or the one that murders, while the other holds the victim down?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonmylous, 2 Mar 2017 @ 5:25pm

Oh I hope he really did this!!!
"A third State Department official told me he was instructed to make requests for policy information and guidance over the phone or in person, rather than commit any policy discussions to an email that might be leaked."

Did... did he really just set himself up to take total responsibility for everything his underlings do because they have it in writing now that all orders issued will be verbal from now on? Is he really that short-sighted?

"But Secretary Tillerson ordered us to release those documents, Mr President!"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
OldMugwump (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 5:33pm

Re: well-meaning but ineffective
This is very much an us-vs-them thing.

"Our" side is stupid-but-good, "their" side is smart-but-evil.

Regardless of which side you're on.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 5:47pm

Re: What is the limit?
"Would you be laughing if the leaks were a list a names of our operatives around the world? What if the leaks caused someone to commit suicide?"

What if ...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 5:49pm

Re: Serious op-sec needed
Or - maybe we need an administration that are not crooks.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 5:52pm

Re: Re:
Yup, speak to the organ grinder not the monkey
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 6:02pm

Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done
Yes they are both equally bad....yawn... no do keep going with your shitty analogy... no really I was just up late last night.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 6:26pm

Consistency

And, like so many things Trump, there's no consistency in his anger on the topic. ... As with so many things, it's fine if Team Trump does it, but not anyone else.

Actually, that's pretty consistent for Trump.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Random Citizen, 2 Mar 2017 @ 6:50pm

Normally I don't get involved in these sort of conversations.

The two of y'all stop it.

Have the members of either side of the aisle considered that you look like idiots & this is very probably the reason that we're in this mess!?

Both sides continually point fingers instead of trying to find things that they agree on. You're as bad as religions, with comments like "My side is right & your side is EVIL" & "The other side HATES THE CHIIIILLLLDREN but my side will save them."

It's high time that we start acting like adults. No, we don't always agree. Sometimes we feel strongly about certain subjects (whether the subjects are really THAT important is a separate discussion). There may be people we don't like.

Guess what? That's life.

The fact that this is happening is an insult to the American people & the world at large. You are too busy trying to one up each other to actually get anything helpful done. Both sides are pulling against each other & as a consequence we get nowhere.

Start learning to have thoughtful discussions, compromise, & work on the things you can agree on. The reason there are so many of you is that you have ideals - work on them & don't force them on others that don't agree.

Otherwise, you just look inadequite & pointless.

// End rant. I will now go back to lurking. Flame me as you will
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 2 Mar 2017 @ 8:45pm

Re:
I'm confused, who exact are you referring to when you say 'The two of y'all'?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Digitari, 2 Mar 2017 @ 9:57pm

Re: Re:
I presumed he meant the left and the right from the context of his brilliant rant. However not having any "party affiliation allows one to see that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2017 @ 11:22pm

Re: What is the limit?
Some days, it seems like leaks are the the only kind of transparency we get out of our government. I'll laugh at Trump having to lie in the bed he's made. But if it takes an atrocity to force accountability then that's the price of it. I expect to see lots of it too, since Trump's behaviour is so toxic to the entire D.C. ecosystem. Anyone who has to live there or who has a long term political career will be leaking as much as they can to stay in each other's good graces and neuter Trump at every opportunity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 12:32am

Re: Consistency
Thats pretty consistent fro all politicians.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cowardly Lion, 3 Mar 2017 @ 3:47am

Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done
"You are nothing but rabid attack dogs..."

Wow. You went from having a semi-rational viewpoint all the way to obnoxious in just one step. Way to trash your own argument. Me, I quite liked Uriel-238's well-balanced and thought invoking post so I'm voting it "Insightful".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cowardly Lion, 3 Mar 2017 @ 4:11am

Re: Serious op-sec needed
Good points, and I pretty much agree. However I can see a parallel to the blanket NSA/GCHQ spying on everyone. The "bad hombres" just use encryption and thus avoid detection, whilst everyone else suffers by having their privacy trashed.

Here, the bad hombre will keep his silenced phone in his sock, a boot stick in his trouser pocket, and a filing cabinet in his junglies. Everyone else suffers with having reduced contact with their friends and families, a reduced ability to work from home, having their privacy invaded...

Let's not forget that Edward Snowden (a good hombre) waltzed out of the NSA with what must have been a wagon load of material. And you'd have expected their opsec to be tip-top.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 4:47am

Re: Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done
That was probably just one of the poster's other personalities
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 4:49am

Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done
"your bias won't let you understand."

I think this is called projection.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 4:50am

Re: Re: well-meaning but ineffective
Regardless of which "facts" one believes.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 4:56am

Re: What is the limit?
It is entirely possible that "The leaks" could save many lives ... but you probably are incapable of fathoming such an thing - too busy dreaming up wild assed scenarios in which your gang ends up looking good and your opponents look bad, are "locked up" or worse.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 5:08am

Re:
Where were you eight years ago ... thirty, forty years ago?

This is nothing new, it's not a fad, it is human nature and humans are not going to evolve into super understanding beings in this sort of environment. In fact, humans seem to be devolving back toward their caveman ways ... is this the "Great" as in make america great again? Fun times
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 5:15am

If you are trying to encourage people to disobey or overthrow the government that is called sedition. I would like to see three viable parties in our nation, but one of the only two we have seems committed to self destruction. Bunch of hypocrites. Funny to hear V. Putin called a killer but not B. Obama. I guess what is left of the future is left to those of us willing to get our hands dirty, or bloody as the case may be.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 3 Mar 2017 @ 5:36am

"But trying to wage some kind of war against them is only going to result in the administration looking very, very foolish, as it does in this story."

They don't need to do anything to look foolish. This administration is a joke. And we are the clowns.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 5:56am

Isn't the best way to reduce leaks to just stop doing all that shady and corrupt shit you gotta hide, and make the rest of what's going on as publicly available as it should be?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:05am

Re: What is the limit?
The casual laughing at leaks here is troubling.

Was it troubling during the campaign when Trump was promoting WikiLeaks?

Or asking Russia if they were listening?

Or is it just troubling now?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Berenerd (profile), 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:08am

Re: For all of Trumps claims..
It is tight, above the water line.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Baron von Robber, 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:14am

Re: Re: Consistency
"Thats pretty consistent fro all politicians."

Yep, Mussolini and Lincoln. No difference.

/rolleyes
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Baron von Robber, 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:17am

Re:
That would be ideal. But when Don the Con sets up business, it's all show. Truth is what pains him, so leaks are what he fears most.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wendy Cockcroft, 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:30am

Re: Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done
Some of us appear to have fallen into the trap of characterising the Dems as "left" and the GOP as "right." This is not the case. The Obama administration was basically neocon with a bit of red meat being thrown to the base from time to time, e.g. gay marriage, Obamacare. Heck, even the Affordable Care Act came out of Heritage and many Republicans are fine with gay marriage.

This explains why the awful programs begun by Bush were continued (and in some cases made worse) by Obama. Let's stop playing partisan games here. I'm not going to weigh the sins of each party to find out which was worse; they've either let us down or they haven't. Start there.

Now let's stop fighting and learn to work together. There's work to be done pushing back against mass surveillance, asset forfeiture, and other things we're upset about.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wendy Cockcroft, 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:33am

Re: Re: Re: well-meaning but ineffective
A statement is either true or it's not. The ACA either provided insurance for people who previously couldn't gain coverage or it couldn't. Cuba either has had relations opened with it or it doesn't. Iran either agreed to a nuclear deal or it didn't.

We can argue the flaws in these policies if we want to but that's a different conversation. Actually, it's three different conversations. Fact.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:41am

Re:
"disobey" is not sedition ... it is the American way.

History is rich with examples, please read.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 3 Mar 2017 @ 6:52am

Re:
"And according to the latest leaks from the White House, the administration is doing a great job serving the country and continues to be open and honest with the public."

... nah, where would be the fun in that?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I.T. Guy, 3 Mar 2017 @ 7:04am

Tillerson has shortened the list of officials allowed inside the daily 9:15 a.m. senior staff meeting... Sends PowerPoint to meeting recipients.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wendy Cockcroft, 3 Mar 2017 @ 7:42am

Re: Re: Serious op-sec needed
Don't give them ideas, Thad.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wendy Cockcroft, 3 Mar 2017 @ 7:43am

Re: Re: Serious op-sec needed
Let us not forget it was a corporation, Booz Allen, that he was working for at the time. The idea, then, that private enterprise is automatically more efficient than government is nonsense.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wendy Cockcroft, 3 Mar 2017 @ 7:44am

Re:
LOL of the week!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wendy Cockcroft, 3 Mar 2017 @ 7:47am

Re: Oh I hope he really did this!!!
As an admin worker I can confirm that poor record keeping and information management and flow is the bane of every business. If you can't get those on straight, expect a mess.

One of my daily tasks is purchase invoice queries. What causes those? Some jerk put the wrong figures in for the supplier costs and left out the quote reference. Tracing that information back to source takes hours out of my working day. Now scale that up to national government level. Enjoy dysfunction.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
anonymous cowherd, 3 Mar 2017 @ 9:26am

Just do what the Democrats did...
Start cracking down and punishing leakers with gusto. Put enough of them in prison and you will dry up the well.

Say you want to be "transparent" and then shut down everything unless someone goes to court with a FOIA request, after years of obfuscation.

As an extreme, you could go full on Hillary Clinton and consider "drone striking" particularly troublesome individuals...

Or, you could just make a lot of noise and use the leakers to prove your point about the opposition media while doing everything that needs doing in the background...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 11:04am

Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done
your bias won't let you answer the question
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2017 @ 11:12am

Re: Just do what the Democrats did...
Are you suggesting extrajudicial killings here in the good 'ol us of a? The only thing new in your suggestion would be use of a drone, but beware the consequences, the public is no longer sleeping.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 3 Mar 2017 @ 11:21am

Re: Re: Horrifying things getting done

your bias won't let you understand.

In other words, "I don't know."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 3 Mar 2017 @ 11:26am

Re:

Funny to hear V. Putin called a killer but not B. Obama.

This is false equivalence.

Obama was responsible for killings, including the killing of civilians in drone strikes. This is utterly awful and it deserves to be condemned.

But it's not the same thing as covertly poisoning his critics.

Yes, they're both killers. But context and details are important.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 3 Mar 2017 @ 11:29am

Re:
The flip side to your "both sides" rant is that we should absolutely condemn bad behavior from both sides.

Contrary to the nonsense that some posters like to spout, Techdirt has been incredibly consistent in criticizing both Democratic and Republican Presidents for cracking down on whistleblowers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Uriel-238 (profile), 3 Mar 2017 @ 12:14pm

To be fair, I would have rathered if Obama used poison.
Drone Strikes qualify as targeted killings which is a policy the US developed in the 80s when we were tired of our no-assassinations policy.

The story goes, we tried one too many times to assassinate Fidel Castro and decided after the blowback that we weren't going to target individuals anymore.

But that lead us to the slightly different policy of targeting them anyway, only instead of one skilled guy with a mean rifle, we'd send an airstrike. It didn't work then. Colonel Muammar Gaddafi survived the strike on his house (though he lost family and personal employees), but Reagan thought it was funny, and it became unofficial policy... until it became official policy.

The problem with assassination is that it becomes too tempting to use it for personal enemies, or for enemies of the current administration. This is how Putin uses assassination. (Then he uses crazy poisons like fucking polonium-210 which left a radioactive trail from Litvinenko to the Port of London, and also exposed assassins Lugovoy and Kovtun to dangerous levels of radiation. But I digress.)

Assassination is a great tool to clear military targets or belligerent commanders when war is imminent, but it shouldn't be used to resolve personal vendettas, and maybe that's the problem is it's too tempting.

But then we shouldn't be resorting to targeted killings and pretending that they're anything but super-messy assassinations.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 3 Mar 2017 @ 2:23pm

Re: What is the limit?
“If this thing was a different thing, would it be the same thing?” shall be my Quote Of The Week.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 3 Mar 2017 @ 5:55pm

Re: The two of y'all stop it
ObXKCD
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad, 6 Mar 2017 @ 10:46am

Re: To be fair, I would have rathered if Obama used poison.
Those are exactly the sorts of context and detail I was referring to. Thanks for the detailed and well-reasoned compare-and-contrast.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
OldMugwump (profile), 8 Mar 2017 @ 1:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: well-meaning but ineffective
Plenty of statements are too vague to be either true or false.

"The crime rate is up 50%". From when? Where? Measured how?
[ link to this | view in thread ]