White House Plan To Reduce Drug Prices... Is To EXTEND Patents?
from the that's-not-how-it-works-at-all dept
While Congress is still doing its thing to try to make the US healthcare system an even bigger laughingstock around the world, the White House is apparently considering an executive order targeting high drug prices. Of course, it handed this power over to Joe Grogan, a (very recent) former lobbyist for a giant pharma company, Gilead, that has been at the center of some controversy over its highly priced drugs. Grogan is apparently leading this effort despite not having an ethics waiver, which means he's supposed to recuse himself from these discussions, rather than lead them. But, you know, that's not happening in the swampy, swampy waters of Washington DC. So just what would Grogan suggest as a way to lower drug prices? How about extending pharmaceutical patents? Yes. Extending.
The documents reveal behind-the-scenes discussions influenced by the pharmaceutical industry. Joe Grogan, associate director of health programs for the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), has led the group. Until March, Grogan served as a lobbyist for Gilead Sciences, the pharmaceutical company that priced its hepatitis C drugs at $1,000 per pill.
To solve the crisis of high drug prices, the group discussed strengthening the monopoly rights of pharmaceuticals overseas, ending discounts for low-income hospitals and accelerating drug approvals by the Food and Drug Administration. The White House declined to comment on the working group.
In what world does anyone with even the slightest economic knowledge think that extending/expanding monopoly powers would bring prices down rather than up? Want to know one of the reasons why drugs are so crazy expensive right now? It's because those monopoly rights have already gone way too far. If you want lower prices, you want competition in the market, not monopoly suppliers who know they're dealing with major health issues -- and the willingness of insurance companies to pay through the nose.
You can criticize all sorts of things about the way healthcare is handled in this country, or how drug prices are determined. But, it's impossible to see how anyone with a straight face could possibly claim that increasing patent rights would lead to lower prices. Of course, the argument here is effectively that by making patent powers greater overseas, the big pharma companies can milk foreigners for higher drug prices... which would make it easier for them to drop drug prices at home. Here are the details from the report:
Extending the patent life of drugs in foreign markets to “provide for protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights.” This will ensure “that American consumers do not unfairly subsidize research and development for people throughout the globe.”
Except, raise your hand if you think that drug companies would voluntarily lower drug prices in the US, just because they can now also price gouge sick people in other countries? Yeah, didn't think so. If you want to lower drug prices, the way to do it is to cut back the monopoly powers of Big Pharma so that they're actually forced to compete more. This isn't a theoretical or academic claim. Just look at the price of drugs after one goes off patent. They immediately drop. Want cheaper drugs? Ditch the patents and watch the market do its thing.
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Filed Under: drug prices, drugs, enforcement, joe grogan, omb, patents, pharmaceuticals
Companies: gilead sciences
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And with less sick people alive there'll be less of a demand for those drugs, so obviously they'll have to reduce the prices!
Duh! Most obviously thing in the world! /s
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Logic
Its good logic if your goal is to make X (the cost of your R&D + Manufacturing). Its Horrific in this case as the goal is to maximize shareholder value.
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Re: Logic
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/11/big-pharmaceutical-companies-are-spend ing-far-more-on-marketing-than-research/?utm_term=.b72b08e13b8d
Fun fact: in many (most?) other countries, the kind of direct marketing of prescription drugs to consumers common in the US is expressly prohibited. They can only market to healthcare professionals, for the public they can only market over the counter medicine.
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Re: Re: Logic
/s
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Re: Re: Re: Logic
Dear Mr. Trump,
Please get drug companies to stop convincing people that they have the problem that the expensive drug is a cure for.
Drug companies should refocus resources on R&D efforts into ways to cause people to develop new, novel and unprecedented diseases. Terminal diseases, heretofore unknown in history, for which the expensive drug is the cure.
It would be be a better use of resources. It has potential military applications. Cures for new terminal incurable diseases increase drug sales. Therefore increase revenue, and therefore profits. Increasing shareholder value. Leading to higher executive bonuses. Which somehow magically trickle down to the poor, if they live long enough. And it increases tax revenue so congress has more money to spend on projects like helping states to determine what species should be recognized as their official state tree. And it greatly increases campaign contributions.
Sincerely,
All US citizens
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Re: Logic
I'd propose to but our representatives to that foreign world they are arguing for but I'd be jealous.
Instead I'd rather compell them to create this world without cut-throat capitalism that they are basing their arguments on here, or be jailed for fraud.
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Re: Re: Logic
Flug.
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These drugs are best in class, yet no one can get their hands on them because no one wants to make a generic drug. Go figure.
Investment chases return, always have, always will.
Some of those workgroup ideas are targeting discriminatory pricing, which won't work.
Only one way to really bring down prices, and that is to mandate it. Getting rid of patents really won't do it, because that just hurts research.
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This if course fails everytime a congress critter wants to cut the federal budget, but baseline R&D is something we need.
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But regulation is bad! /s
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Do you think clean water is just naturally occurring or something?
People should have to pay for clean air. You don't think clean air just grows on trees do you?
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The generic problem is much more difficult. Essentially generics are a cheap commodity version of a formerly patented drug. The problem with them not getting produced points to a problem that is much more systemic and cannot be solved by price mandates: The cost of marketing is ridiculous.
The only way to solve the problem is to regulate the process from the manufacturing to the product is in the hand of the consumer better which neither price mandates on their own or changing the patent system can solve.
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The market for attention from customers is all about supply and demand too.
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Thankfully, I've spent most of my life in those systems rather than the US one.
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You know that a lot of drug research is actually paid for by the government and drug companies spend more on marketing than they do on research, right?
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So patents can be abolished: without overcapacity producers won't start a price war.
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But now Russian companies are trying to regain control of iconic trademarks, such as "Kalashnikov" and "AK-47" and would no doubt like license fees from companies all over the world building such Soviet-era products.
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Since the end of the Cold War, military technology has slowed down. For instance, the main US battle tank, the M1 Abrams, was designed way back in the 1970s. (but that's OK, since the Soviet tank designs were even older).
Third world nations are happy enough buying half-century old Soviet-era tanks for their growing armies, and prices for T-72 and T-80s in the world market are held down by the fierce competition from former communist-block countries such as Ukraine and Poland which make copies of these Russian designed tanks, completely unlicensed and royalty-free, often undercutting the "official" Russian-built ones on price.
If only the Soviets had foreseen the end of communism and the breakup of their empire, they might have secured some kind of licensing deals on their military hardware before it became a free-for-all. But their lack of business acumen is their loss and the world's gain.
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Not true. After the breakup of the Soviet Union, per agreement, countries were specifrically given ownership of whatever assests were physically in their country, with the exception of the nuclear forces. They wern't making "copies" at all - they were making the real thing.
Also, the tank designs you refer to - (same for the M-1) - are continiously updated. Basically, the only thing a modern T-72 has in common with one from the Soviet era is the frame.
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In truth, you read some propaganda somewhere, you believed it and are now spewing it out on a blog.
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Re: We saw what happened in Communist countries
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Re: Re: We saw what happened in Communist countries
Based on fake news from the dishonest media! Sad!
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As opposed to people who will happily raise the price by a factor of several thousand, secure in the knowledge that you still have to pay for it no matter the cost? Who will screw you and your family over in a heartbeat if it improve this quarter's profits? I think many people will accept that.
Also, what is it about "American exceptionalism" always seeming to imply "exceptionally bad"? You seem convinced that having healthcare systems similar to the ones present in every other developed country will inevitably lead to communism or anarchy, even this has not happened anywhere else. You seem obsessed with spreading your brand of democracy across the globe, you convinced that anything that the resulting democratic government touches will inevitably fail. It's a very strange mindset some of you have.
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I'm telling you, you foreigner leftist globalists are on worldwide retreat, for sure. We (Americans) will lead the way by publicly crushing your stupidity in open elections, and the rest of the world will follow. Like always. MAGA.
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No, I mean the "we want a democratic government but are convinced that allowing the government to run anything will lead to inefficiency and failure" mindset so often espoused. It's totally contradictory.
"Our "democratic government touches will inevitably fail"? Really? "
That's what you people always claim, yes.
"I'm telling you, you foreigner leftist globalists are on worldwide retreat, for sure."
It doesn't matter how many idiotic, meaningless buzzwords you use to hide your claims, they're still laughable.
Can you think for yourself, or do you just mindlessly repeat slogans you heard somewhere?
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It explains why UK Prime Minister Theresa May was lambasted by the right wing press in America for promoting "liberal democracy." That's their idea of a nightmare.
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They have no idea what the political spectrum looks like or their place in it.
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http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/03/17/520430944/should-the-u-s-government-buy -a-drug-company-to-save-money
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It's a wonder why patent-rich corporations such as the drug industry have never really pushed for the kind of "forever minus a day" terms that Hollywood movie studios successfully lobbied for.
Maybe only now they're starting to realize that they have plenty of catching up to do.
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Considering the way that copyright terms have been extended repeatedly by Congress, perhaps we should be very glad that patents don't grant the holders anywhere close to the 100+ year monopolies that copyrights bring.
Yet.
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Welcome to...
Anyone see a flaw in that plan? (Hint: if you are big pharma - no.)
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??
President has the legal power to extend drug patents -- and can delegate that power to an OMB underling (??)
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On a more personal note, my EpiPen has expired. If I'm stung, I'm now faced with either (a) taking the risk of using it or (b) taking the risk of not using it. I certainly can't afford another one, well not unless I want to skip eating for a couple of months.
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Re: Power
referenced story-source is Kaiser Health News, which in turn claims to rely upon anonymous sources and mysterious documents alleged to reveal discussions within Trump’s "Drug Pricing and Innovation Working Group.". But there's no mention of patent extensions. pretty weak "journalism". seems more of a routine hit piece on Trump
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Re: Re: Power
Tell you what. When Trump actually helps some of the less well-off (without there being some huge pay-off elsewhere) then we'll protest these stories more. Until then, we'll continue to believe his actions are consistently anti-humane.
Meantime, don't you have some bushes to hide in?
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Trump sez, war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength...
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Keep it simple stupid. . .
As for research costs, isn't that a tax write off like every other business expense?
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Re: Keep it simple stupid. . .
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Re: t's called competition!
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Re: Keep it simple stupid. . .
Perfect example! If it weren't for patents no one would have ever invented the wheel. Go patents!
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Re: Re: Keep it simple stupid. . .
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Post WWII Germany? Really? That's your comparison?
I understand the "post-war" mentality on the left, but this was just a propaganda war, and you lost, bigly . Sooner or later, you will think about rebuilding a new platform, likely without TechDirt, I don't think you will see those ideas here. This place already reminds me of Dresden, scary, with just blown out frames of fractured ideas present. No good ones, nothing behind any of them except hate and throw-back to Nazi times.
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Re: Post WWII Germany? Really? That's your comparison?
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Re: Re: Post WWII Germany? Really? That's your comparison?
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Re: Re: Re: Post WWII Germany? Really? That's your comparison?
1942, Japan joins in the fun, taking over the Far East and giving the US a big black eye. Fortunately, Germany was stupid enough to declare war on the US as well as the USSR and you lazybones decided to get involved in both campaigns. After a long, slow 2-year grind we were slowly making progress, and after 3 we finally won.
So no, we don't think we've lost yet, Sooner or later the inhumanity of the GOP/Mango Mussolini's program will come back to bite them and we can take a few more steps forward to universal health, well-being and prosperity.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Post WWII Germany? Really? That's your comparison?
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Re: Post WWII Germany? Really? That's your comparison?
What you are witnessing with this article, and with the recent elections, is the complete collapse of the Leftist agenda, including the anti-Patent, anti-Copyright anti-Government agenda of this site. It's falling down all around you.
I'm curious how one argues that anti-patent, anti-copyright is somehow a "left" agenda. After all, patents and copyrights are centralized government monopolies and subsidies handed out to individuals and companies. That sounds very much like a "leftist" ideal. Whereas "the right" claims to be about less centralized government and a free market -- something that copyright and patents directly oppose.
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Our medical treatment is second to none.
Of course, how we pay for it is a different system.
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Please define "best".
Is it "best" in a technical/medical sense?
- citation needed
Is it "best" if you can not afford it?
- no citation needed as this is common knowledge
Seriously, your flag waving is cute but it does no one any good.
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http://www.topmastersinhealthcare.com/30-most-technologically-advanced-hospitals-in-the-world/
the US has 16 of the top 30 hospitals in the world.
Here is also a fun fact, we are talking about healthcare, but this article is about pharmaceuticals. In all healthcare spending, pharmaceuticals only make up about 14% of healthcare dollars spent.
If you want to fix healthcare, drug prices won't do it alone.
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Even if the other claims are true (and they are somewhat faulty), therein lies the rub.
If a system provides top notch medical care to the rich, but it is priced out of reach of a huge proportion of its citizens, then it is not the best by any reasonable definition.
"When a pilot in Switzerland gets cancer, where does he go?"
I wonder, did you have a specific example in mind there, or did you just randomly pick it from thin air? Because it amusingly reminded me of articles like this, arguing that the Swiss medical system is actually the world's best.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-healt h-care-system/#492b5dfa7d74
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I agree, it is expensive, is it out of reach for a "huge" proportion of its citizens? Not so sure about that.
It is a fact that a large percentage of people who file bankruptcy here in the US preceded that with medical costs.
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OK, so something that most people won't get since most of the world won't have seen that ad? That's not a great reference if you're trying to argue on a global scale. By the way, has anyone confirmed that he's actually a pilot who made that choice, or just someone acting as one for the ad?
"I agree, it is expensive, is it out of reach for a "huge" proportion of its citizens? Not so sure about that. "
There's a long debate to be had there, although I think that the top echelon care you were referring to is certainly out of reach. At the very least, the figures for people who were denied care for pre-existing conditions (something which Trump is promising to re-introduce), lower access to preventative rather than emergency care, and care which is avoided by people who can't afford the bill seem to take up a significant percentage. But, unless you come up with a baseline as to what actually constitutes "high quality care" and "access", you can make the figures say whatever you want.
"It is a fact that a large percentage of people who file bankruptcy here in the US preceded that with medical costs."
This is true. Just as it is true that this simply doesn't happen in most other places in the world. That, again, is a reason I'm glad I didn't grow up in the US - from early medical issues for myself as a child to intensive care treatment for my father in the last year of his life, worrying about the bill was not something my family has ever had to do.
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How do we as a society deal with that? It is happening on a small scale now, but that will speed up. Bernie Sanders was just a candidate too soon.
The question is will it be a good thing or a bad thing? Will future generations have great lives or will we need someone like Matt Damon to lead us to Elysium?
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Yes, C-Suite suits are good at blowing smoke but that is usually intended for the investors, not the common person - that task is left to the overzealous volunteers like yourself.
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