Congress Pats Itself On The Back Via Social Media For Its Opportunity To Slam Social Media
from the so-that's-how-it-works? dept
As you may have heard, this week there were three Congressional hearings in two days, allowing various Congressional committees to drag out officials from Facebook, Twitter and Google and slap them around for the fact that some bad things happen on those platforms. The general sentiment appeared to be sputtering anger that social media companies haven't magically figured out how to "stop bad stuff" on these platforms.
Perhaps the strongest statement came from Senator Dianne Feinstein during one of the hearings, in which she stated:
I must say, I don't think you get it. You're general counsels, you defend your company. What we're talking about is a cataclysmic change. What we're talking about is the beginning of cyber warfare. What we're talking about is a major foreing power with the sophistication and ability to involve themselves in a presidential election and sow conflict and discontent all over this country. We are not going to go away, gentlemen. And this is a very big deal. I went home last night with profound disappointment. I asked specific questions, I got vague answers. And that just won't do. You have a huge problem on your hands. And the US is going to be the first of the countries to bring it to your attention, and other countries are going to follow, I'm sure. Because you bear this responsibility. You created these platforms, and now they're being misused. And you have to be the ones who do something about it... or we will.
We've gone over this before, because it's one of those things that everyone seems to think is easy to solve, when the reality is that most attempts to solve the "problem" of "bad stuff" results in a bigger problem. Yes, it's probably true that these companies could be more forthcoming and transparent, but part of the problem is not that these companies just want to hold their cards close, it's that (1) there are no easy answers and (2) almost any "solution" is fraught with even more problems that will almost certainly make the problem worse. At the very same time that tons of people are complaining about these platforms failing to stop loosely defined "bad speech," you have another group that is complaining about bad/bogus takedowns/censorship. How do you balance those two things? If you think there's an easy way, you're wrong.
On top of that, the idea that "bad" content is obvious is ludicrous on multiple levels. First, the scale of this issue is massive. And that impacts things in multiple ways. It means it's impossible to carefully review every piece of content, meaning that a ton of "bad" stuff will always slip through and people will complain that the platform is failing or not taking the issue seriously. At the same time, a bunch of errors in the other direction will be made (taking down stuff that should be left up). It's the classic issue of Type I and Type II errors -- and at the scale these platforms operate, you will inevitably have so many of both as to make the entire effort appear completely ineffective.
And, to make the situation even more ridiculous, even if there were some regulatory regime that could accurately manage the issues discussed above, they would almost certainly be cost prohibitive for all but the largest of players. And thus, the end result of this regulatory "attack" on Facebook, Google, and Twitter may be to lock in those three companies as the dominant players and lock out any innovative startups.
And then there's this: While these Senators were attacking these three companies, they were relying heavily on Twitter and Facebook to talk up and promote the fact that they were in a hearing bashing Twitter and Facebook. While the article linked here suggests that this isn't ironic because it just demonstrates the power imbalance, there's a more subtle issue at play. These platforms became so useful in large part because they were free to innovate and to experiment and to allow for lots of different uses. And, sure, some of those uses are ones that many of us find distasteful, offensive, or even potentially dangerous. But before we leap in with wild abandon with Congress mandating solutions that will be policed by these very same platforms, shouldn't we be at least a little careful that the end result will create a lot more problems than it's supposedly solving? And, yet, so far, there has been little indication of what exactly Congress (or anyone with the anti-tech pitchforks) have in mind other than "take responsibility" or "stop the bad stuff." And that's not even remotely productive, and has a high likelihood of being harmful.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: congress, dianne feinstein, regulations, responsibility, tech
Companies: facebook, google, twitter
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
The more open the conversation is, the easier it is to monitor the high risk individuals, and the more likely it is that their views will be moderated by those with a less extreme viewpoint.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
"You created these [tools], and now they're being misused" - Irrelevent
"And you have to be the ones who do something about it" - ridiculous
"or we will" - do it! It's your responsibility! get the NSA to get their act together. This is their damn job.
You *should* be the ones to do something about it. They are just plain trying to shirk responsibility and lay it on some innocent companies just because they are popular.
Get real. These companies are not internet gods for you to pray to for a solution. Do your jobs!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The pretend outrage is fake ... fake outrage - sad
[ link to this | view in thread ]
What?!? Bad things happen on social media?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
I example "bad speech" as calling someone "ignorant motherfucker" -- especially when it's out of the blue, NOT part of going discussion. YOU, dismiss that vile comment -- from your own paid writer, NOT an ordinary user -- as "a joke".
I example "bad/bogus takedowns/censorship" as Twitter banning Roger Stone (apparently permanently) for using a few vulgarisms while NOT banning others for same.
Therefore I don't see the problems that you do. If "platforms" are too big to moderate as civil society requires, CUT THEM DOWN TO SIZE. Corporations don't have any damn right to even exist if not serving society.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
And a key problem is that these "platforms" don't take down obviously "bad speech" even when flagged.
By the way, it's maintained here that "the Community" knows which persons should have their comments hidden. Yet you state it's impossibly complex and sure to be wrong. I agree that Techdirt has got it BACKWARDS: your fan boys should have THEIR comments hidden, and their home IP addresses banned, NOT mild-mannered me. So while you're consistent, it's only because deliberately BACKWARD.
Anyhoo, doesn't follow that I expect any good out of Congress. Tried to tie this grilling into the Russia assertions, sheesh.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
Well, this keeps you off the streets, I presume.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
Neuter the social media platforms, and you will reach far fewer people with you ravings.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
You're absolutely right that there are methods of obfuscating things...but the point is that the tech companies were more than willing to look the other way in exchange for the mythical non-VC money to show their boards and investors. Twitter's hands in this mess are particularly dirty. They offered a substantial chunk of US political advertising to RT.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I cannot confirm this cause I ublock origin EVERYTHING except a few select sites.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The American Way
.... without first laundering their money through a 501(c)(4) to a SuperPAC which could then make a coordinated ad buy for the campaign.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZunZuneo
But really what difference does it make if a user is told Clinton is the devil by Trump or a Russian meme? The unspoken inference with this argument is that voters are not capable of evaluating sources of information and are mindless sheep responding to whatever propaganda manages to reach them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
As for your link, yeah cool whatever. Nevermind, the US does it too. Pack it up, everything's kosher now, apparently.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
The "us" versus "them" mentality is getting harder for a lot of people to shake. Blocking "negative" opinions can only worsen this kind of thinking and a lack of desire to engage the "opposition" as human beings instead of "monsters".
Once you've gone that far, you have no chance of relating to the other side, because you will inherently think of your side as "good" and theirs as "bad". That kind of arrogance turns people off because it's humiliating to experience.
If marginalized people feel no connection with others, they're far more likely to commit crimes, a lack of empathy and respect from others is what makes them feel: "Well fuck, what do I have to lose from hurting people? Talking got me nowhere."
Also, keep in mind that joking about horrid things is how the Internet deals with them. It's the blackest of black, patently offensive comedy and many don't understand it: Roaming Millenial - The Internet for Dummies | Pepe, Kekistan & Normies
(Not an endorsement for this channel's opinions wholesale, just the facts in this one video. Don't fall for the last segment... it is satire at that point. :P)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
Let's take a page from China and mandate all political speech be correlated with a National ID, then we will be sure no foreign propaganda reaches our senses.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: The American Way
Look, at the end of the day, there is only speech. Not good speech, not bad speech. The adjectives describing speech exist as the 'reality' for each listener. These platforms have become the de facto town square, and should be held in public trust the same way the sidewalks in the USA are held in public trust per Frisby.
If people would get over themselves and stop thinking they needed the government to protect them, and would embrace the responsibility of using their rights rather than shutting down everyone else's, this 'problem' would go away. Who cares what the next idiot is saying, as long as she's only saying something, not actually doing a thing. When they do a thing, then if it is an illegal thing, use the existing laws to deal with it.
Words are not things. If you are easily hurt by words, stay inside, cover your ears and disengage from the dialog. Don't use the government as a bully stick to silence the things you don't like -- on either side of the issue.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you are dumb enough to buy propaganda you deserve to be its victim. The ideal is freedom if speech, crushing it because it came from outside your sphere of influence means you don't really believe in that ideal much at all, well unless you need it for your own gain.
yadayadayada yaaaaaaaa. *fingers in ears* lalalalalaaaa but me me me mee!
get over it, people are dumb and susceptible to propaganda because that is just the way things are.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
When you have freedom of speech, you have speech that you are not going to like and will likely try persuade to come to their point of view. Whether that is influencing an election or buying the latest iPhone.
Facebook, Google, et al are just platforms, just like standing on a street corner with a sign is a platform. People can do and say what they want within legal limits on both but you don't see legislators getting all huffy with concrete companies because they put the street corner there for people to stand on in the first place. This is literally no different.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Uhm....
Would that make their continued use of said platforms a violation of the CFAA? I'm asking for a friend >.>
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
We live in America, it's called Freedom, get used to it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Uhm....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If they want to regain the ummm .. not trust - I guess it could be called the publics willing suspension of disbelief - then they had better rethink their strategery.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
Sorta difficult to "see their side" when they are holding a gun to your head.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
So - playing to their shrinking base. Everyone else sees it as the intersection between greed, lack of ethics and opportunity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
No moral obligation to serve society ... yeah we all get that as it is quite clear.
What many fail to acknowledge is the fact that these corporate monsters need both workers and consumers otherwise they go out of business. When they treat same poorly, guess what happens? It may take time, or it could be immediate - either way they will not like it and they blame the easy targets while ignoring the oncoming train which will certainly wreck.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
... But then again, they've found that listening and respecting extremists can help, too:
The scientists persuading terrorists to spill their secrets
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
The problems from the government end of things is that their cyber is always about offense, even when they are calling defense. No part of government dare actually secure their systems much, or so little as mildly suggest corporations or critical systems secure more and expose to the public internet less. Now the legislative arm wants some companies to flippin' filter posts and ads for the same kind of bullshit they spew themselves. (Well, they occasionally use the truth also, but in a way to maximize divisiveness rather than push for a positive change.)
I am sure they are super happy with their super reinvigorated Eastasia as much as Russia is with them. Heaven forfend they actually do any real thing about this stuff, like making critical thinking a part of education. Too much autocracy envy, though.
If they had said "this is no way for Americans to behave" at the time, they would have pretty much had to empty out great whacking swathes of government to lead by example.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Holy crap, what planet has she been on for the last 10 years? Other governments deal with far worse, constantly, without yelling at platforms so much.
Also, cyber this.
_What we're talking about is a major foreing (sic) power with the sophistication and ability to involve themselves in a presidential election and sow conflict and discontent all over this country._
Uh. They took our jerbs?
_We are not going to go away, gentlemen._
Goddammit, yeah, we noticed already.
_And this is a very big deal. I went home last night with profound disappointment. I asked specific questions, I got vague answers._
Omg jerb competition again.
_And the US is going to be the first of the countries to bring it to your attention, and other countries are going to follow, I'm sure._
You may want to check on the net for those last ten years you spent off-planet or whatever. (Or is this just another case of "US first" regardless of what actually happens anywhere?)
_You created these platforms, and now they're being misused. And you have to be the ones who do something about it... or we will._
Is it finally time to ban tracking and targeted advertising then? There are a lot of other, smarter things that could be done, i am sure, but unfortunately not involving your chosen scapegoat platforms in the way you imagine.
You could also stop manipulating "your own", as well as the populace in other countries. I double fucking dare you.
__(2) almost any "solution" is fraught with even more problems that will almost certainly make the problem worse.__
Yep. It's called "making sure the enemy / terrorists / whatever wins". Again. Go ahead, and give them exactly what they want. While making less than no headway toward your stated goals.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mentioned before and again, and over time AGAIN
But it those who can NOT describe what they NEED protection from, that Scare me more.
A person asked about the recent event, HOW could we have saved/protected the Citizens?
LOCK THEM ALL UP, INSIDE THEIR HOMES..Take away Anything they will HURT themselves with...And throw food at them every few days..
WE ARE TO DOMESTICATED.. We are Worse then the cattle we milk. That should live 40 years, but die in 5-6. we cant even walk across the street without our HANDS being held. We have the instincts of a House cat..That has Forgotten the wild.
WHy is it THEIR FAULT?? hasnt MOSt of the bad stuff ALWAYS happened? With or Without the Help of Corps and Countries..
Why NOT USE this data to Find the idiots breaking laws??
No Laws broken? Hmm. MAKE MORE UP..
Anyone consider we are getting as bad as China and the middle East...S. America monitors the net also..
Why leave it alone, when you can PASS BLAME to something..
ITS NOT the side affect of being able to be ANONYMOUS?? Is it, that Many are being STUPID?? Comparing ideas and concepts?? SHARING things..
I only figure that FBI/CIA monitoring the net, ISNT WORKING..
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Wait a sec! I'm in BOTH your alleged "groups".
It's not, in and of itself, the size of the platforms/companies, but the the sheer volume of messages that would have to be moderated. If (for example) you split Twitter up into a thousand companies, each with 1/1,000th of the resources and handling 1/1,000th of the message volume, none of those mini-Twitters would have the resources needed to handle the volume of messages as the would be (proportionally) in the same boat as the original Twitter. The only way to "moderate as civil society requires" would be some combination of throttling the amount of messages users can send and charging users per message sent, so that their army of paid moderators would be up to the task of handling the message volume.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
sOCIAL MEDIA AND kIDS..
HOW to teach kids how to use words, EXPRESS themselves?
HOW a person can be a whistle blower and BE ANONYMOUS..
WHERE are all the old social clubs?? the gathering places?
WIPED OUT..Infected and beat to death by internal problems..
do YOU THINK IT will stop anything?? It DIDNT IN THE PAST, when PAPER WAS POPULAR.. I remember the underground papers.
Its JUST A BACKDOOR LAW, for killing off Classifieds..
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]