DOJ Russia Indictment Again Highlights Why Internet Companies Can't Just Wave A Magic Wand To Make Bad Stuff Go Away
from the troll-troll-troll-troll dept
As you've certainly heard by now, earlier today the Justice Department announced that it had indicted thirteen Russian individuals and three Russian organizations for various crimes related to trying to influence the US election. You should read the full indictment if you haven't already. Not surprisingly it focuses on the infamous Internet Research Agency (IRA), which was the giant Russian online trolling operation that we've discussed going back to 2015.
While many are trying to position the indictment as a "significant" bit of news, I have to admit to being a bit underwhelmed. It really does not reveal much that wasn't already widely known. It's been widely reported that the Russians had interest in disrupting our democracy and sowing discord, including setting up and pushing competing rallies from different political sides, and generally stoking fires of distrust and anger in America. And... the indictment seems to repeat much of that which has already been reported. Furthermore, this indictment actually reminds me quite a bit of a similar indictment four years ago aginst various Chinese officials for "hacking" crimes against the US. As we noted then, indicting the Chinese -- who the US would never be able to arrest anyway -- just seemed to be a publicity stunt, that had the potential to come back to haunt the US. It kinda feels the same here.
What is interesting to me, however, is that the indictment also demonstrates why all the hand-wringing against Facebook, Twitter and Google seems kind of misplaced. For months we've been seeing big articles and Congressional hearings questioning why the platforms allowed the Russians to use their services as propaganda tools -- even getting the companies to recently send out (useless, confusing) announcements to people about whether or not they saw or reposted Russian troll propaganda. But what the indictment makes pretty clear, is that the Russians made it nearly impossible for an internet service to ferret them out. The money used was spread out among many different banks and laundered through various means to make it more difficult to trace back. And it details just how far the trolls went to appear to be Americans, including traveling to the US, posing as Americans online to talk to actual US activists and push them in certain directions. And, of course, confusing the internet platforms into thinking they were Americans:
ORGANIZATION employees, referred to as "specialists," were tasked to create social media accounts that appeared to be operated by U.S. persons. The Specialists were divided into day-shift and night-shift hours and instructed to make posts in accordance with the appropriate U.S. time zone. The ORGANIZATION also circulated lists of U.S. holidays so that specialists could develop and post appropriate account activity. Specialists were instructed to write about topics germane to the United States such as U.S. foreign policy and U.S. economic issues. Specialists were directed to create "political intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with [the] social and economic situation and oppositional social movements."
Defendants and their co-conspirators also created thematic group pages on social media sites, particularly on the social media platforms Facebook and Instagram. ORGANIZATION- controlled pages addressed a range of issues, including: immigration (with group names including "Secured Borders"); the Black Lives Matter movement (with group names including "Blacktivist"); religion (with group names including "United Muslims of America" and "Army of Jesus"); and certain geographic regions within the United States (with group names including "South United" and "Heart of Texas"). By 2016, the size of many groups had grown to hundreds of thousands of online followers.
Most of those groups (if not all?) had previously been revealed by the platforms or by news reports. But the extent to which the Russians went to cover their trails is more revealing.
To hide their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, Defendants and their co- conspirators--particularly POLOZOV and the IT department--purchased space on computer servers located inside the United States in order to set up virtual private networks Defendants and their co-conspirators connected from Russia to the U.S.-based infrastructure by way of these VPNs and conducted activity inside the United States? including accessing online social media accounts, opening new accounts, and communicating with real U.S. persons--while masking the Russian origin and control of the activity.
Defendants and their co-conspirators also registered and controlled hundreds of web-based email accounts hosted by U.S. email providers under false names so as to appear to be U.S. persons and groups. From these accounts, Defendants and their co-conspirators registered or linked to online social media accounts in order to monitor them; posed as U.S. persons when requesting assistance from real U.S. persons; contacted media outlets in order to promote activities inside the United States; and conducted other operations, such as those set forth below.
Use of Stolen U.S. Identities
In or around 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators also used, possessed, and transferred, without lawful authority, the social security numbers and dates of birth of real U.S. persons without those persons' knowledge or consent. Using these means of identification, Defendants and their co-conspirators opened accounts at PayPal, a digital payment service provider; created false means of identification, including fake driver's licenses; and posted on social media accounts using the identities of these U.S. victims. Defendants and their co-conspirators also obtained, and attempted to obtain, false identification documents to use as proof of identity in connection with maintaining accounts and purchasing advertisements on social media sites.
This was not just some run-of-the-mill "pretend to be Americans," this was a hugely involved process to make it very difficult to determine that they were not Americans.
I've seen some people online claiming that this shows why the platforms have to take more responsibility for who is using their platform:
While you read the Mueller #Indictment remember the tech CEO mantra: “We don’t want to be the arbiters of truth.” These platforms were used *exactly as they were designed to be used*. Here we are a year later, and still no accountability or governance. https://t.co/Y1IgtRSVqm pic.twitter.com/s2mOnp0EFc
— Renee DiResta (@noUpside) February 16, 2018
But my read on it is exactly the opposite. It shows just how ridiculous such a demand is. Would any of us be using these various services if we were all forced to go through a detailed background check just to use a social media platform? That seems excessive and silly. Part of the reason why these platforms are so useful and powerful in the first place is that they're available for nearly everyone to use with little hurdles in the way. That obviously has negative consequences -- in the form of trolling and scams and malicious behavior -- but there's also a ton of really good stuff that has come out of it.
We should be pretty cautious before we throw away all of the value of these platforms just because some people used them for nefarious purposes. People are always going to be able to hide their true intentions from the various platforms -- and the response to that shouldn't be "put more blame on the platforms" -- it should be a recognition of why it's so silly to blame the tools and services for the actions of the users.
Yes, we should be concerned about foreign attempts to influence our elections (while noting that the US, itself, has a long history of doing the same damn thing in other countries -- so this is a bit of blowback). But blaming the technology platforms the Russians used seems to be totally missing the point of what happened -- and risks making the internet much worse for everyone else.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: doj, impersonation, indictment, influence, intermediary liability, propaganda, russia, russian trolls
Companies: internet research agency
Reader Comments
The First Word
“The "offline industry" litmus test
Any time people say online platforms should do X or be responsible/liable, that same proposal should be applied to other industries to see how reasonable it is. I think real estate, vehicles, and banking are good ones to use.So should the real estate industry do more background checks on people to whom they sell/rent to ensure they won't be used for nefarious purposes? How about car and truck dealers? Or banks?
Or to put it another way: apply the Alice test. Just because it's "on a computer" or "on the Internet" doesn't mean it should be any different than offline businesses.
More often than not, I think this simple thought experiment will expose just how ludicrous the original proposal is.
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in thread ]
This is horrible. I sort of agree: "underwhelmed". -- But I don't believe the charges, nor are they criminal, nor are those charged going to be handed over! This is JUST a stunt to try and show SOME results from year-long WITCH HUNT.
Er... I predict this will be echoed endlessly as ultimate proof of "Trump-Russia collusion", when it's not even in the correct half of the planet! It'll grind on for a while, but unless they're extradited, what other point is there beyond publicity?
Of course, the Russians have already laughed it off.
Hey, "PaulT" and "Roger Strong", this fits you! "The indictment adds that the British and Canadian serfs "were instructed to post content that focused on 'politics in the USA' and to 'use any opportunity to criticize Trump'."
Oh, sure you'll SAY that you're not paid to attack Trump. But is that a standard that you want to see set? After all, you're here blatantly, as "PaulT" stated just today, trying to influence US politics.
Water for thought, eh?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: This is horrible. I sort of agree: "underwhelmed". -- But I don't believe the charges, nor are they criminal, nor are those charged going to be handed over! This is JUST a stunt to try and show SOME results from year-long WITCH HUNT.
This is just screeching: "OMG! RUSSIANS HAVE OPINIONS!"
But again, as "PaulT" so handily asserted just today: Russians have a "right" to state opinions in the US of A. -- They just don't get to vote, legally, as the flood of Hispanics do as aided and abetted by those with "D" by their names.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: This is horrible. I sort of agree: "underwhelmed". -- But I don't believe the charges, nor are they criminal, nor are those charged going to be handed over! This is JUST a stunt to try and show SOME results from year-long WITCH HUNT.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: This is horrible. I sort of agree: "underwhelmed". -- But I don't believe the charges, nor are they criminal, nor are those charged going to be handed over! This is JUST a stunt to try and show SOME results from year-long WITCH HUNT.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: This is horrible. I sort of agree: "underwhelmed". -- But I don't believe the charges, nor are they criminal, nor are those charged going to be handed over! This is JUST a stunt to try and show SOME results from year-long WITCH HUNT.
If everyone who doesn't like Trump were a paid attacker, the standard of living would have shot up dramatically.
Russians surely have a right to an opinion about the US. They also have no right to not be exposed as not actual Russian individuals, but as a state organization pretending to be US citizens and going to great lengths to obfuscate their true nature. Same as any other info campaign.
Trump and his campaign have done some dumbass things wrt Russian involvement. Of course, if one just let an investigation roll, everyone might see how little or how much involvement their was, and whether it is innocuous or not. The bigger issue, really, is the administration's twisting the rule of law, lying, and obfuscating (and their sheer mouthiness in public, for flavor). For argument at the least, say Trump has done zero wrong in connection with Russian actors. His behavior beyond that is appalling. (Just like it has been his entire life.)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
This is like criticizing plain white toast for failing to be a culinary masterpiece. This indictment is just a perfunctory step in a far larger process -- a necessary one, even if rather predictable by any of us who have been following Russian interference in US elections for a few years. Note that in practice this is likely to have little effect on the principals, as there is no extradition treaty in place between the US and Russia. But that's inconsequential because that's not who it's aimed at.
The people who should be sweating right now are the ones who funded the IRA, because they are now at risk for losing many of their assets outside Russia. Why? Because (1) many of them own property in western Europe and the US (2) western Europe and the US are mostly members of NATO (3) an attack on one NATO member is considered an attack on all (4) this is clearly an attack on the US. There are BILLIONS of dollars worth of property collectively owned by these oligarchs in the US and Italy and France and so on, and if there is a coordinated decision by NATO to act on this, they could lose it all in a day.
Keep in mind that none of them like Trump. They despise him, as any reasonable person does; it's just that he's been their useful idiot. If they're squeezed between having their assets confiscated or confessing to everything, including their role in funding his election, they'll flip on him...and that will include the kompromat, the recordings of his meetings with their agents, the financial transactions, everything.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
There are BILLIONS of dollars worth of property collectively owned by these oligarchs in the US and Italy and France and so on, and if there is a coordinated decision by NATO to act on this, they could lose it all in a day.
I wonder if this isn't all a plot by Putin to rid himself of a few more inconvenient Oligarchs....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: This is horrible. I sort of agree: "underwhelmed". -- But I don't believe the charges, nor are they criminal, nor are those charged going to be handed over! This is JUST a stunt to try and show SOME results from year-long WITCH HUNT.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The "offline industry" litmus test
So should the real estate industry do more background checks on people to whom they sell/rent to ensure they won't be used for nefarious purposes? How about car and truck dealers? Or banks?
Or to put it another way: apply the Alice test. Just because it's "on a computer" or "on the Internet" doesn't mean it should be any different than offline businesses.
More often than not, I think this simple thought experiment will expose just how ludicrous the original proposal is.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Conspiracy Theory
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The CIA has manipulated foreign countries for years .
Killed Democratically elected officials to install
Puppet Dictators to tow the American line .
Sorry if you can't handle the same shits been pulled on you .
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Real Americans, Too
From the indictment:
So even something crazy, like requiring people to prove US citizenship in order to use social media, wouldn't have prevented this.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
While I don't like the idea of Russia attempting to influence our elections and political stances, I think I would like it even less were Russia trying to take over our country with military forces such as we did in Iraq. Nor is Iraq the only country the US has been involved in doing so.
Our government doesn't like Russia meddling maybe they should stand back and take a long look in the mirror.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-decries-wild-west-media-landscape-214642552.html?soc_src =mail&soc_trk=ma
All of this - the invented Russian nonsense, the "fake news" brouhaha, the panic about "bots" and "Bernie Bros" is designed to recapture control of the narrative by those in power. This new McCarthyism tars anyone who deviates from the orthodox DC/CIA media-establishment narrative as either a traitor or a "useful idiot". Under these efforts, pushed universally by corporate media outlets, marks anyone who questions US/NATO global hegemony as an enemy.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/washington-post-blacklist-story-is-shameful-disgustin g-w452543
The goal, of course, is censorship. Both direct censorship as we have seen directed towards RT (and now Al Jazeera), as well as indirect censorship, as we have seen from CIA clients such as Google, who have systematically delisted and deranked voices that don't jive with the DC/CIA media-establishment.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/technology/google-search-bias-claims.html
Ulti mately, unfortunately, as evidenced by the masses of Americans whipped up into an anti-Russian frenzy that threatens global extinction from nuclear war due to some frowned-upon tweets, it seems very likely that the oligarchs running this country will be successful in their attempts at controlling the internet. All too many Americans are ready and willing to give up their freedoms under the guise of "protecting us from Russian attacks".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
That they are starting to get the ball rolling with indictments on the russian trolls is a very small part of the larger story. IRA are nothingburgers.
I think you are getting way ahead of yourself when talking about oligarchs. IRA is not a secret organisation and the people funding them are not news to the CIA. Because of that the oligarchs should have had enough time to ferret the important parts of their deputy prime ministers and hookers away on yachts off the coast of Norway...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Real Americans, Too
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
This Indictment is a Load of BS and Mueller Desperation
Anti-Russia Russians recruited by the CIA to do this stuff...
Read here and learn:
A Brief History of the “Kremlin Trolls”
https://thesaker.is/a-brief-history-of-the-kremlin-trolls/
There was no attempt by Russia to "meddle" in the election. It was a CIA disinformation campaign.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Three observations...
2) The significance of the indictment isn't so much the facts and accusations, it's that they are now out in the open in the judicial system. Someone clearly decided to pull the trigger on this group at this particular time, rather than maintain silence that could protect methods and sources. The consequences of this indictment are also significant: a) It shoots a warning shot at the Russians, b) the critics who had been growing bolder in their claims that there was no interference at all now have to fall back on either "there was no knowing collaboration in the Trump administration" or "an indictment is not a conviction. It changes the public discourse completely. c) It's a confidence booster (justified or not) for the public that the mid-term elections will be that much cleaner.
3) Welcome to the Second Cold War, baby. If there was any doubt that US-Russian relations are completely adversarial, those doubts are over.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
U.S. foreign policy
Do you think President Carter would enjoy his final years in an Iranian prison? The Bush's in Iraq. Clinton in Somalia? Obama in Afganistan?
Or does it just mean that all of the money spent on/by/for the NSA has been wasted?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
Keep in mind that "Russian government" and "Russian mob" are essentially synonymous. So when trying to evaluate the power dynamics in play, ask yourself how the Mafia would handle things. Russia's economy has been systematically looted and if it wasn't for their nuclear weapons, they'd be the geopolitical equivalent of Mexico. The oligarchs are trying to sustain their wealth by projecting the appearance of Russia as a power broker on par with the USSR, but they're not doing it in a sustainable way. All of which means that collaborative economic sanctions enforced by NATO would be devastating to not only the country, not only their personal fortunes, but to Putin's career.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
The team around Trump hasn't been involved in serious money laundering - for the most part - because they don't have serious money to launder. But Trump does. Let me give you a case study: 515 North County Road in Palm Beach, Florida.
Look it up on a map. It's prime real estate. There was a 62,000 square foot mansion there that went up for auction in 2004. Trump bought it for $41M and had some minor work done. In 2006 he put it on the market for $125, which is insanely overpriced. In 2008, he cut the price to $100M. Still insanely overpriced, which is why there's little interest from buyers.
Then Dmitry Rybolovlev -- yes, a Russian, and yes, an oligarch who's worth an estimated $10B shows up. He offers $75M. Trump says no. They haggle and he buys it for $95M.
First clue: Rybolovlev paid more than it's worth. WAY MORE than it's worth. No sane person would do this, and someone who made $10B in potash mining is clearly sane enough to understand that.
Second clue: HE NEVER MOVES IN. That's right. He dropped $95M on a house that, as far as anyone can tell, he only visited once.
Third clue: he continues to drop money on it. From 2008 to 2016 he pays property taxes, upkeep, etc., an estimated total of $11M. So now he's into it for about $105M and still never moves in.
Fourth clue: in 2016, he asks Palm Beach for permission to TEAR DOWN THE HOUSE. Which they grant and he does. Then he divides up the land into three chunks and puts it up for sale.
If you don't understand that this is an absolutely textbook case of money laundering, then you haven't got the faintest clue how it works. The point of this exercise wasn't to buy a mansion and live in it, the point was to launder money and transfer it to Trump. And now Rybolovlev is doing the same thing, assuming the buyers are passing clean money.
Note: this is one example. There are dozens that I know about, and since it isn't my full-time job to catalog them, I'm sure there are hundreds more that haven't hit my radar yet. It's not an exception. It's the rule.
Trump is an absolute idiot who hasn't got the faintest clue how to run a business (or anything else). That's why every venture he's started has failed. That's why he's been financially vulnerable. And that's why he's been laundering money for the Russians for decades, because he needs their cash in order to prop up his brand. If it wasn't for dirty Russian money, he would have gone under years and years ago.
They OWN his ass. Trump is the property of the Russian mob.
And untangling decades of dirty money transactions with the Russian mob -- money they made from drugs, human trafficking, arms deals, etc. -- is a massive task. That's why it's taking time, and that's why, if you look at who Mueller's put on his team and read their resumes, you'll see that they're on it. Which of course is why the alleged party of law-and-order is on an anti-FBI crusade: they're terrified of what Mueller's team knows...and not just about Trump.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
But what about THEM?
Nah, I'd much rather talk about the colonies on mars. I mean what about the horrible stuff that they've done, clearly the focus should be on them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Have fun with that
So the takeaway from this seems to be to highlight yet again why those calling for platforms like Twitter need to 'do something' is hilariously impractical. Even modest background checks would not have caught this, yet 'just' taking that step would likely slash use of the various platforms by an enormous amount, chilling massive amounts of speech.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
The Trump real estate business is reported to have been used as a way to develop upon existing money-making channels from at least as early as 1998, one unnamed insider reported. In this scheme, Trump was implied to have purchased parcels of land in an undeveloped area. Later, after building various structure on these parcels of land, Trump would then sell the land/structure combination for a larger amount of money than he had originally paid. Former US Southern Disctrict attorney Morty Goldblatt, a New York Times special consultant, has even theorized that the amounts of money Trump received for these parcels exceeded the amount of money spent on building or improving new structures on the parcels. Goldblatt further explained this type of activity is very common in Russia, with Vladimir Putin having participated in the buying and selling of real estate to increase cash reserves in the mid-1990s, shortly after leaving the KGB.
While Trump's location is currently unknown, anonymous Washington insiders have reported that Trump may have gone into hiding in order to avoid incarceration for these crimes. Widespread lawlessness is predicted to descend upon North America, with packs of wild dogs controlling most major cities, according to retired CIA Counter-intelligence Agent Phillip K Mudd. Trump's chief spokesman Thomas Mortiarti had no comment when asked to confirm or deny Trump's participation in Russia-linked money laundering deals.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
But you konw: Mueller has Trump's tax returns. He has Deutsche Bank's records. He has everything FINCEN has. He has everything Five Eyes has. And he has a superstar team of prosecutors with years of experience in money laundering.
Everyone is going to prison. And then we're going to deal with Putin.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: This Indictment is a Load of BS and Mueller Desperation
Be careful Ivan, I hear pooty poot sends naughty time wasting trolls to Siberia.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: U.S. foreign policy
By the way Bush started the American Afghanistan Adventure so they will have to chop him in 1/2. And same with Bush Senior in Panama. You also forgot Regan’s Iran-Contra problem, so we will have to disinter him and then cut him in 1/2 as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: This Indictment is a Load of BS and Mueller Desperation
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
[ link to this | view in thread ]
2. If, by some magic formula, Putin can swing elections in the most powerful country in the world with a tiny budget share, then America would have a much bigger problem than just election tinkering.
On the other hand, making a big show of arresting the hired help like Bin Laden's Taxi chauffeur and Putin's kitchen staff instead of real villains does not really support the superpower-image we'd like to see. And if President Trump were indeed a puppet whose strings are pulled by Putin - would it really be a smart move to broadcast that to the world before there is solid evidence to take both of them down?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Small force applied correctly beats brute force almost every time
A few bucks worth of metal in the right shape and you can pick basically any tumbler lock on even the most expensive house.
That something might be easy or require minimal effort applied in just the right way does not excuse the act itself, any more than a burglar would be able to argue their way out of a trespassing charge by claiming that hey, if they can break in with a handful of cheap tools then the homeowner has bigger problems to worry about then them.
As for the third paragraph, exactly what do you think they should do? Refrain from making anything public with regards to an investigation that a bunch of politicians including the president of the US would really like to go away post-haste?
Sure it may not be ideal to snag some small-fry while working on the bigger game, but if they can't show something being accomplished then it becomes easy for certain parties to claim that the investigation is a baseless witch-hunt, finding nothing because there is nothing. By instead showing that yeah, they are finding things then it's much harder to just dismiss the whole thing out of hand.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
Sounds like an improvement on the status quo, as the difference between American politicos and dogs is that dogs are actually capable of expressing loyalty.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
There are so many layers of ugly and bad I'm not sure how one is going to apply a meaningful fix.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Is the government really pissed off?
Russia, China etc can force controls over their internet users. But in the west, fear is the tool that will achieve the same thing and the citizens will give up their freedoms without even realizing it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
Don't refer to your GOP handlers like that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Is the government really pissed off?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
It shows the level of discourse when no effort is made to examine the past and determine how the US of A is not gonna keep up with its old habits. Bullies need excuses to not change and slapping a label of "whataboutism" to not change is gonna work for many fine people.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: U.S. foreign policy
Naw, simpler to leave the past unexamined and throw up one's hands.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: U.S. foreign policy
Here I've been going into threads where Trump's name was in the headline and joking "Why isn't anybody talking about Carter?"
I thought I was joking. I thought I was engaging in comic exaggeration of the type of stupid shit trolls say in these threads to try and distract from the issue. Not an accurate verbatim repetition of it.
At least I've still got my "What about Dukakis?" joke.
I think. I'm kind of afraid to scroll down through the rest of the thread.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: It wasn't meant to be a bombshell
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
“We're all mad here.” *
DOJ Russia Indictment Again Highlights Why Internet Companies Can't Just Wave A Magic Wand To Make Bad Stuff Go Away
The italicized/bold text below was excerpted from a report found at the website zerohedge.com titled:
Watch A Flustered John Podesta Respond To "How 13 Russians Operatives" Outsmarted Hillary
In a discussion of 13 Russian nationals indicted by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, host Nancy Cordes noted that Russian operatives who meddled in the election somehow realized the importance of focusing on those highly contested swing states.
“How is it that these Russian operatives knew to focus on purple states like Michigan and Wisconsin and your campaign didn’t?” Nancy Cordes, the host of “Face the Nation,” asked Podesta.
Click the link and watch John Podesta tap dance:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-19/watch-flustered-john-podesta-respond-why-russians-o peratives-were-smarter-hillary
That's right over one year of special prosecutor Mueller and all he has to show for the great Russian 2016 US presidential election caper is a great big fat nothing.
It's been widely reported that the Russians had interest in disrupting our democracy and sowing discord, including setting up and pushing competing rallies from different political sides, and generally stoking fires of distrust and anger in America.
Where is the evidence supporting your allegation that the Russians had interest in disrupting our democracy and sowing discord?
The very same Russians that still fly US astronauts to the International Space Station?
https://www.space.com/38134-space-station-expedition53-crew-launch-success.html
The same Russians which still supply the US government with RD-180 rocket engines for it's heavy lift Atlas rockets?
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/space-flight-news/russia-claims-u-s-will-continue-purchase-rd-180 -engines/
The same Russians that let the US use railways and an airbase in Russia to ease the logistical nightmare the US/NATO face(d) in Afghanistan (the Russians closed the door in 2015 after repeated US kicks to the groin).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-afghanistan/russia-may-give-nato-a-base-for-afghan -supply-runs-idUSBRE82D16P20120314
https://jamestown.org/program/russia-shutters-northern-distributi on-network/
* Borrowed from Lewis Carrol's 'Alice in Wonderland'
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: “We're all mad here.” *
As far as the rest, to quote the ruskie tinged running theme; what about it?
At least your name checks out; no one wants your borscht flecked shit staining this page.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yawn...
And? Did you want to say something?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: “We're all mad here.” *
The Russians attempted to make nice with the West at the end of the Cold War, but the West still needed a boogeyman to keep that sweet, sweet military-industrial contract money flowing.
Then Putin came to power with a head full of nationalistic dreams, the idea being to supplant the USA as a superpower. Result: what we see today. We own this.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Long story short we got PLAYED
We are a nation of sheep so alseep.
The woke are a very small fraction of the population.
This will keep on happening as our intelligence level lowers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Long story short we got PLAYED
It's unclear whether the Russian interference swung the election. If it did, it was a less significant factor than the campaigns themselves and good old-fashioned homegrown propaganda like Fox News. Nate Silver had a pretty good article on this the other day.
Which isn't to say that the Russian interference wasn't a big deal; even if it didn't swing the election this time, who's to say it won't next time?
I'm also not dismissing the Trump campaign's apparent collusion with the Russian government. While we've seen no direct evidence that Trump himself was personally involved, there's plenty of evidence that his family and staff were, and that's certainly suggestive.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Long story short we got PLAYED
However I'm certain FOX are dumb as well and fell for stupid stories they then went on to share with their audience. Surely some of their sources are Russian and where part of the plot.
We might be blaming Social Media now but the MSM gets much of their news from SOCIAL so it all goes hand in hand.
Americans need to get back to READING. Talking heads on TV is no way to gain insight.
Cut the cord
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: U.S. foreign policy
[ link to this | view in thread ]