CBS Bullies Fan Star Trek Project To Shut Down Despite Creators' Pleas For Instructions On Being Legit
from the engage-the-lawyers dept
Lawsuits and intellectual property disputes revolving around the Star Trek franchise are legion. This is largely due to just how massive and popular the franchise has been over the past decades and into the present. Still, we've seen all kinds of examples of how either the disputes are frivolous or silly, or cases in which IP owners had so many options open to them other than bullying and suing but chose to ignore those alternative routes.
That brings us to Stage 9, a non-commercial labor of love put together by fans of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Stage 9 is the virtual recreation of TNG's Enterprise starship that allows fans of the series to explore the beloved vessel and immerse themselves in the chief setting of the series. Stage 9 has been built over the past two years by creators that have taken great pains to state that the project was not affiliated or licensed with CBS or Paramount and that they weren't doing this to make money, only to artistically demonstrate their fandom.
As you've probably already guessed, all that was for nothing as CBS sent them a cease and desist letter anyway.
“This letter was a cease-and-desist order,” Scragnog explains. “Over the next 13 days we did everything we possibly could to open up a dialog with CBS. The member of the CBS legal team that issued the order went on holiday for a week immediately after sending the letter through, which slowed things down considerably.”
Part of the team's strategy at that point was to remind everyone it could at CBS of the words of John Van Citters, CBS VP for Product Development. Back in 2016, shortly before this project started, Van Citters publicly remarked that the Star Trek franchise owes its success to the fans and the community that creates so much fan-work around the Trek universe. He went so far as to plead with fans to get involved, specifically stating that fans creating fanworks are "not going to hear from us. They're not going to get a phone call, they're not going to get an email. They're not going to get anything that's going to ruin their day... like they've done something wrong."
Those seem to be in direct contradiction to the very real letter that very much ruined the day of the team behind Stage 9. And so the team reached out to Van Citters directly to see if he could get involved and help. Van Citters failed to even respond, and when CBS' lawyer finally got back from vacation, it was stated that nobody would be working with these fans to make their project legit, it all just had to go away.
“We were hoping, perhaps naively, that the elements of Stage 9 that CBS did not approve of would be highlighted to us, so we could be sure to remove these elements from the project and create something that met with, if not their approval, then at least their acceptance,” Scragnog explains.
To keep the project alive, the team were prepared to make any changes ordered by CBS. Sadly, CBS said that the project could not continue in any form, no matter what changes were made. They provided no further details and, as noted by Eurogamer, did not indicate how Stage 9 had violated the fan art guidelines previously published by CBS and Paramount.
And so the story of a two year fan-project that would have at worst brought some joy to a bunch of Star Trek fans and, at best, would serve as free marketing material for the show, has come to the most unfortunate of endings. Thanks to mealy mouthed executives who can't be bothered to either back up their own altruistic statements or engage with fans of their property, two years of work simply gets tossed in the trash.
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Filed Under: copyright, enterprise, fans, infringement, inspiration, licensing, stage 9, star trek, tng
Companies: cbs, paramount
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Plan 9 for Trek-kies non-creative duplicating SHOULD BE STOPPED.
Sheesh. This is what Trekkism leads to. They probably all dress up as furries with medieval armor and call themselves Ninjas. The few females may wear semi-bondage bikini though they need only green body paint to be a convincing Jabba The Hut.
Anyhoo, these neo-fantasists had PLENTY of warning in fact that they tried to get permission, and now it's a big HOOT that their "work" is all down the inter-tubes.
And why? Because BLATANTLY COPIED.
I'm certainly glad of it. Thought Star Trek was rightly taken off TV in '69, could see the HUGE flaws of its "science": just CRAP made up for convenience of filming.
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Hatefilled nonsense
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Re: Plan 9 for Trek-kies non-creative duplicating SHOULD BE STOPPED.
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Re: Plan 9
Obviously you are an author of unparalleled skill, and have produced your own epic works which are far better.
You can't copy something that never existed. This would have been a new work.
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Re: Plan 9 for Trek-kies non-creative duplicating SHOULD BE STOPPED.
No different than you and your Civil War reenactor buddies... well not exactly your buddies... they threw you out. ROFL. Like JREF... and your many many youtube accounts.
Seems like you have a lot of time on your hands lately. So not only did Brandy see the light and throw you out, you're unemployed now as well? Still living with wiLLie Sr.? Poor old guy.
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Re: Plan 9 for Trek-kies non-creative duplicating SHOULD BE STOPPED.
Why should anyone care what your opinion is, Blue?
You are someone who doesn't even honor their own words. You challenged Mike to rebut your comment the other day and stated you'd leave Techdirt if he did. He did so and you are still here.
Your honor and character are now both suspect, Blue. A person is only as good as their word, in my book.
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I…uh…does anyone want to tell him that Star Trek was not a documentary series?
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Re:
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He couldn't teach elementary science his way out of a paper bag...
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Maybe he's a Thermian?
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Re: Plan 9 for Trek-kies non-creative duplicating SHOULD BE STOPPED.
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Re: Plan 9 for Trek-kies non-creative duplicating SHOULD BE STOPPED.
Alternatively, a red-hot poker inserted where the sun don't shine sounds an equally good idea.
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If I squint really hard, I can bring myself to imagine that CBS might--possibly--be working on some kind of similar product themselves, and that's the underlying reason for the path of the jerk that they've chosen to take with this. I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few months, there's some product announcement about a "virtual recreation that fans can fully explore!" or something of that nature.
Not saying I think their actions (or lack thereof) are justified here; as noted there are plenty of other, friendlier ways they could have approached this. But it wouldn't surprise me if any previous altruistic statements were thrown right out the window as soon as any kind of money was on the table.
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Re:
However, there's something (insert expletive here) about how a lawyer sends out a cease and desist order and then promptly goes on vacation so the defending party can't negotiate.
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…“Ferengian”?
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Or Block progress
The United States Congress shall have power "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
To promote the arts, not to block competition or secure unlimited rights to others works.
Building the most elaborately detailed model of the Enterprise D would be such an accomplishment that took nothing away from Roddenberry's works.
Back in the 90's Paramount sold a "Virtual Enterprise" program that was billed as a something like this. to everyone's disappointment it only had a dozen rooms and you couldn't explore the ship at all.
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Re: Or Block progress
Before France demanded we respect very long term copywriter claims copywriters didn't extend more than a few decades. Making much of star trek public domain.
That means CBS only owes new stuff made after about 20-30 years ago. Now because of France we have copywrites that last a century or more.
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html
Ironically the original series copywrite would have run out completely in 2014 if congress had not extended it in 1998. Now it may run out in 2061. Assuming they don't keep extending it.
The first U.S. Federal Copywrite laws under the constitution could last at most 28 years. if extended after 14 years. By the time the original series was aired, the initial period was extended to 28 years and extendable to 20 years.
Some call this the Micky mouse curve in the USA because Disney presumably has been driving frequent changes to horde Micky mouse for themselves.
https://alj.orangenius.com/mickey-mouse-keeps-changing-copyright-law/
But really i call it the snobbish french curve who believe an author always owns and controls whatever they create or can argue is related to what they create.
I think Micky mouse, and star trek is by all rights public domain, because the copywrite extension acts of 1977,1992 and 1998 are all ex post facto law's prohibited by Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution.
"No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."
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Re: Re: Or Block progress
Now we're paying the price for our complacence. The good news is that even the IPR powers that be are beginning to see value in "Limited times." If the limit comes down to a sensible one of, say, 28 years tops, I'll change my attitude towards copyright but for now I say if they can't play nicely with their toys, they can't have them.
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Estoppel
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Re: Estoppel
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Re: Estoppel
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We've been waiting for this...
CBS/Paramount never wanted to push a project like that through because they want the all the old Trek story lines to die and be replaced with the new Abrams version. Either that or they don't want to keep on paying residuals to the old casts for likeness rights.
They missed a golden opportunity not just to foster goodwill with the fans, but to make money in a venture that had practically 90% of the development done.
I would have gladly paid $50-$60 for something like that (but not if they did a new Trek version. Gads that bridge is gaudy).
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Re: We've been waiting for this...
It is always about those benjamins.
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Re: Re: We've been waiting for this...
If CBS can't make a better version than a group of randos doing it for free...
Well, they deserve to lose that contest.
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Re: Re: We've been waiting for this...
A) Offered a low cost license for a free game
-or-
B) Offer to help financially with production costs and in exchange they get a cut of the sales
They chose -
C) None of the above
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Re:
Seriously, how is this different than building a set in your basement?
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...What? I thought the whole point of copyright all these companies were crooning about involved slight changes to "promote creativity". Yet CBS won't let the stage 9 creators split their idea off from Star Trek even with the franchise indica removed? That's way out-of-line for CBS.
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Re:
How do we know this works? Just look at the BCC's efforts related to Doctor Who.
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Re:
It is also hard to see how the courts have not made a statement on Congresses interpretation of limited in the case of copyright either. That is of course, assuming that some case making the claim has worked its way up the judicial ladder. There would be some expense there, but having the courts tell Congress that limited is not life plus 75 years when the Constitution says:
and that dead people don't create, could do a lot for creativity, and the economy.
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"Make all you want, our lawyers always need something to kill."
Back in 2016, shortly before this project started, Van Citters publicly remarked that the Star Trek franchise owes its success to the fans and the community that creates so much fan-work around the Trek universe. He went so far as to plead with fans to get involved, specifically stating that fans creating fanworks are "not going to hear from us. They're not going to get a phone call, they're not going to get an email. They're not going to get anything that's going to ruin their day... like they've done something wrong."
...
And so the team reached out to Van Citters directly to see if he could get involved and help. Van Citters failed to even respond, and when CBS' lawyer finally got back from vacation, it was stated that nobody would be working with these fans to make their project legit, it all just had to go away.
Well, one part of his statement was true, they most certainly didn't hear from him, even if they absolutely did hear from the lawyers he'd insisted wouldn't be involved in fan projects.
Or put another way: Van Citters either lied, or he made a statement he had no power to back up based upon nothing but what he thought was the case, neither of which are a good look for him or CBS.
Still, if CBS objects so strongly to fans getting involved, then it seems the response would be to stop doing so. Don't make fan works, don't bother talking about it, just forget it exists.
If you really want to watch the shows then fine, but don't engage in it beyond that, and if that means that the next generation(pun unintended) only knows the term 'Star Trek' thanks to a handful of modern movies, such that the older works are essentially left in the dust and worthless, oh well, CBS should have thought of that before.
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Re: "Make all you want, our lawyers always need something to kill."
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Re: Re: "Make all you want, our lawyers always need something to kill."
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Re:
The MLP fandom already proved that rule doesn't exist... Wanna have examples? Look up the following animations.
Lullaby for a Princess
Children of the Night
I could keep going...
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Re: Re:
I don't think they were saying that fans can't make high quality works, but rather that as soon as they do the lawyers will come by to stomp them flat more often than not.
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To wit: The MLP fighting game that, after a C&D from Hasbro, eventually became Them’s Fightin’ Herds.
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Re: Re: Re:
Garry's mod started as a mod for Half-Life 2.
Not to mention all the stuff from the modding communities for the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series.
Lawyers and C&D(s) isn't the only option, nor does it have to be.
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STC chose to finish that Captain Kirk 5-year mission and did it in 11 full length episodes and a slew of shorter gags/ vignettes. They got better with each episode IMHO
When they finally finished, they turned the sets over to Stage 9 for preservation --- and <**gasp**> put out legitimate torrents for the work in DVD and Bluray ISO formats
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Re:
You could be think of James Cawley's Star Trek: New Voyages / Star Trek: Phase II witch end up as the Star trek: TOS set tour
sadly he was the only person who got something out of the CBS for being a fan
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Re: Re: Stage 9
I'll look at your Cawley thing.
Meanwhile, you are welcome to check out www.startrekcontinues.com
Read the final blog entry regarding the set The torrents are still there under downloads The episodes may still be streamable
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Re: Re: Re: Stage 9
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Corporate Zombies
I see three possibilities:
1: He was lying from the start but needed to look good in the press.
2. He is not really in charge and has no idea what is going on and no control over it.
3. He meant what he said but his attorneys don't give a **** because someone willing ti pay huge licensing fees is considering doing something similar.
I vote for #2 as it seems to me, more and more, giant corporations do not really have anyone in charge and those who think they are in charge have no means or interest in finding out if their instructions are being carried out and no means to intervene when they are not. Or are simply told by some senior executive flunky that it has been taken care of and their isolation is such they have no means of noting reality.
Most heads of major corporations/government agencies are so protected by layers of assistants. special assistants and executive assistant to the special assistant that getting through to them is a major (and expensive) effort if you yourself do not operate on those levels.
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Re: Corporate Zombies
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Re: Stage 9
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