Vizio Admits Modern TV Sets Are Cheaper Because They're Spying On You

from the watching-you-watching-me dept

Tue, Jan 15th 2019 12:04pm — Karl Bode

If you've shopped for a TV recently, you may have noticed that it's largely impossible to just buy a "dumb" TV set without all of the "smart" internals. More specifically, most TV vendors don't want to sell you a bare-bones set because they want you to use their streaming services. Even more specifically, they want you to buy their sets with their specific streaming functionality because they want to spy on you. Poorly.

That's always been fairly obvious to most folks, but it was nice to see Vizio CTO Bill Baxter acknowledge that the reason you pay a discount is because your viewing habits are being collected and sold to the highest bidder:

"Q. One sort of Verge-nerd meme that I hear in our comments or on Twitter is “I just want a dumb TV. I just want a panel with no smarts and I’ll figure it out on my own.” But it sounds like that lifetime monetization problem would prevent you from just making a dumb panel that you can sell to somebody.

A. Well, it wouldn’t prevent us, to be honest with you. What it would do is, we’d collect a little bit more margin at retail to offset it. Again, it may be an aspirational goal to not have high margins on our TV business because I can make it up downstream. On the other hand, I’m actually aggregating that monetization across a large number of users, some of which opt out.

It’s a blended revenue model where, in the end, Vizio succeeds, but you know, it’s not wholly dependent on things like data collection.

The problem is that this trade off isn't really providing value to the end user, in large part thanks to the TV sector's terrible security and privacy practices. For one, navigating the TV sector's historically terrible GUIs to actually find and opt out of this data collection is often a nightmare. Usually opting out is first intentionally named something nebulous, then buried deep in a sea of terribly-designed menus. And even then, opting out can often result in you losing access to some core set features you might actually use. That's only a good deal if you enjoy annoyance.

Then there's the fact that the TV sector routinely does an absolutely terrible job at the security and privacy practices needed to protect this data. We've seen vendors like Samsung get busted hoovering up and collecting living room conversations, then shoveling this data off to a nebulous assortment of third-party clients. Numerous set vendors have similarly been busted collecting this data then transmitting it to the cloud without adequate encryption. Vizio itself just struck a $2.2 million settlement with the FTC for secretly tracking and selling the usage habits of around sixteen million Vizio owners for around three years.

So yes you're maybe paying a bit less up front for a cheaper set, but you're paying for the deal out the other side of the equation in a way that's not even entirely calculable. Even then, higher-end TV set vendors do this same thing, kind of deflating the claim that this is only being done by necessity among lower-end vendors trapped by tight margins. In reality, the same disregard for privacy and security that has infected the internet of broken things space is on proud display in the TV business, resulting in hardware that's easily exploitable by everyone from run of the mill hackers to intelligence services. Is that a bargain, really?

With so many streaming hardware platforms to choose from (game consoles, your phone, home-built PCs, Roku, Apple TV, etc.), many users just want a dumb TV with ample HDMI ports that simply does one job, really well. Instead, like so many sectors (telecom comes quickly to mind) the priority appears to be focused on treating user data like a harvestable resource, with security, privacy, and transparency a very distant afterthought.

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Filed Under: bill baxter, data, privacy, smart tvs
Companies: vizio

72 Comments

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Mason Wheeler (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:07pm

Seems to me there's a market opportunity here, for someone to produce "dumb" TVs, sell them for less than the competition is selling spyware TVs, and market them as being spyware-free, unlike the competition, as a positive feature.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tin-Foil-Hat, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:18pm

Craigslist
You can get an old timey TV for 10-20 bucks on Craigslist.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rocky, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:18pm

Re:
The point was that they can sell the TVs cheaper because they recoup some of the cost by selling the information about viewing habits.

That means you have have to produce "dumb" TVs that's even cheaper - ie crappier.

So, a smart person buys a smart TV and never connects it to the net to dumb it down - problem solved.

OTOH, I guess we are not far away from smart TVs that need to be connected to the net to function - it is a natural progression after all.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re:

they recoup some of the cost by selling the information about viewing habits.

Well, partially. They can also sell untargeted ads, and get money from companies like Netflix for including their software.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:27pm

Re: Craigslist
Yeah, but watch out, you might get it home and realize (direct quote from the article) "Dude, that’s not even full HD, that’s 720p"!

You can also get these things for free from curbs and e-waste bins. I got some high-quality VA/IPS computer monitors that way.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anon, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:28pm

Simple..
If you're going to use Roku, or a PC, or something else to provide Netflix, or other services - then you have no reason to connect your TV itself to your network. If it can't phone home, it can't report.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anon, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:31pm

smart TV's
The future will be full of smart TV's that if they aren't connected to the internet, will spend all of their spare cpu cycles attempting to hack any wifi/bluetooth point so that it can finally phone home with a bunch of archived data.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mason Wheeler (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re:

The point was that they can sell the TVs cheaper because they recoup some of the cost by selling the information about viewing habits.

I'm not sure how much I buy that, though, because those costs they're recouping are balanced out by the costs of developing the smart TV software in the first place. I'm a software developer by profession, and believe me, that kind of work doesn't come cheap!
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DataTheftbyTV, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:32pm

A few simple rules...
Periodically (I do mine quarterly) update the televisions firmware.

Steps to keep you / your data - safe...

1) Factory reset Television
2) Allow television to access internet
3) Firmware update
4) Blacklist Televisions wifi-adapter to block access to internet
5) Reconfigure your settings as needed
6) Enjoy your "dumb" television
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: Re:
You only have to write the software once and that has already been done.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:35pm

Re: Simple..
Until someone includes an LTE chip or an exec signs a deal with Comcast or At&T for their wifi networks and invalidates your method. Having a "smart" device means you have an unsecured computer in your home. The moment someone figures out how to take that computer over, you cease to have control over it again.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mason Wheeler (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
First, even though it's already been done, that doesn't contradict the fact that it's very expensive to do. Second, if you have any sort of maintenance, patches, updates, new features, etc, you don't just "write the software once." It's a continuous process.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:45pm

Re: Re:
Add in the extra electricity that these "smart" TVs use, and dumb TVs become a even better deal over time
[ link to this | view in thread ]
michael, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:48pm

Projectors
I'm so glad the bullshit "smart" thing hasn't entirely infiltrated the projector market.

Set-up for a ceiling-mounted project with HDMI wall socket in my living room took about 1.5 hours, and it can connect to any device (but I use an old, small desktop that fits in my end table).

Total cost: < $1000 for a 120" screen that doesn't spy on me. 4k would have added another $200.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 12:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They're likely farming a lot of that out to others (I'll bet the Netflix support is entirely funded by Netflix for example), using programmers from countries with lower living standards than your own, and using a bunch of open-source components. Much of the work will be reusable across product lines, and it does get relatively cheap when you can amortize across millions of units. Plus, enough people do want some of these "smart" features, like Airplay and Netflix (not everyone knows how to set up add-on boxes)—releasing a TV with no software will reduce their market.
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James Burkhardt (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:04pm

Re: Re:
The core issue is smart TV's are SLOW, the interface is bogged down by an OS the TV can't handle. I hate working with a smart TV even not connected to the internet.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tin-Foil-Hat, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Craigslist
I meant the CRT type. Yes you can get them for free but it's a lot of work to get them home so it's nice to test them out first. You know what would be really sinister? If someone retrofit modern spyware technology on a CRT TV and then left it on the curb for an unsuspecting person who specifically lugs the thing home because they assume it's free of spyware.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:11pm

Re: Re:
As Rocky mentions, this is exactly what I have done. I've refused to allow this spy to connect to the internet. I don't need the internet for the tv to work.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:14pm

Re: Re: Re:
Digital TV is inherently slow. You're not going to be able to flick through 5-10 channels per second like we could with analog. The keyframes don't come often enough (in principle, 2-way communication on cable could let you request a keyframe right away; in practice, cable company boxes are shittier than smart TVs).
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:16pm

Just buy a computer monitor.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rocky, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:18pm

Re: Re: Re:
A majority of the tool-chains for developing the software is open source, especially considering many smart TV's run Android.

If they are not running Android they are most likely running one of the plethora of available media-centric OS's available, look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smart_TV_platforms_and_middleware_software

The cost isn't that high, time spent on "developing" smart TV software is mostly look and feel customization since someone else already has developed the software.

FYI, I'm both a SW and HW developer and I've worked in the broadcast industry so I do know what the cost is - it's the cheapest the manufacturer can get away with. Ever wonder why your TV's GUI is sluggish? It's running on the cheapest bare minimum HW needed.

In other words, I'm afraid the cost isn't as high as you believe.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:22pm

I use a TV as a computer monitor. It never connects to the Internet and exists only to project images from my Mac, DVD player, or antenna.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rocky, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You could, but you would need a lot more horsepower in the TV/Box to fiddle with the transport-streams so you can switch channels seamlessly. But that means pricier hardware.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Craigslist
You should not be paying to buy (most) CRTs. People should be paying you to take them, because the dump probably won't take them for free, they're (as you say) a pain in the ass to move, and free e-waste disposal days are rare and inconveniently located. High-quality Trinitron monitors for PCs are an exception; people still pay for those (see the thread on Hardforum).

LCDs are easier to test. You may need several adapters, like microHDMI-to-HDMI and HDMI-to-DVI, but you can get phones to output signals to them. Run through solid red/green/blue images to check for dead/stuck pixels. Where would you even find an NTSC signal these days?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Bruce C., 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Which probably explains why they don't patch the security holes in the SW. They don't actually have anybody around to fix them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:42pm

The interview reads like a hypothetical such as with the statement

it may be an aspirational goal to not have high margins on our TV business because I can make it up downstream

from the Vizio CTO. Is there any confirmation that the article reflects modern pricing practices or an aspirational future pricing practice?

Additionally, I have an extreme degree of difficulty believing opt-outs actually opt-out of collection after so many years of various organizations claiming their opt-out only stops ad-targeting from the information they will keep collecting about you.

Even if opt-out did prevent data collection, I am concerned about the bootstrapping problem where vendors will collect thorough information about the consumer upon powering on and connecting the T.V. prior to any actual opt-outs. I simply do not have any trust in vendors to be honest when it comes to this kind of market practice.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Whoever, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:45pm

Re:
Why not just buy a "smart" TV and never connect it to the Internet?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

First, even though it's already been done, that doesn't contradict the fact that it's very expensive to do.

It kind of does. Whether or not it was smart of them to develop it, Vizio already has the smart-TV software. So what would Vizio gain by developing a dumb TV? They'd save the costs of updates and patches, but, as someone else wrote, they're evidently not doing much of that anyway. And as the CTO said, they'd have to sell it for more than their standard TV. Who's the target market? Techies already know how to quarantine the spy software, and will find the opt-out option if it's there.

If such a TV comes out, it will come from a company that didn't already develop software.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
....using programmers from countries with lower living standards than your own, and using a bunch of open-source components.

And .... don't forget this because it's the biggest cost-saving technique of all ....

Make sure the programmers know you don't care at all about the user's security, or the stability of the user's hardware, or about inconveniencing the user in any way at all, if those goals conflict in any way with getting the software delivered cheaply and quickly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DataTheftbyTV, 15 Jan 2019 @ 1:50pm

Re: A few simple rules...
Ugh...

I can see it now..

Thank you for purchasing your new smart tv.
In order for your television to function correctly, you must have the television connected to the internet at all times.

Failure to connect your television to the internet, will cause the "software-license" to expire, preventing your television from displaying content from any source, regardless of where it was sourced from.

We hope you understand our need to reach our chain-mail covered fist up your ass to steal every possible bit of user data that we can in order to appease our share-holders greed.

If you'd like to use your television in an "offline" mode, please mail us your check for $1,000,000,000,000,000...(infinite zeros) and 00 cents to the following address.

DoWeFuckEmandHowie
Attorneys@RapingPillagingandPlundering
123 Lawsuit City, 54321-0123
L1 Parking Orbit between Terra and Luna-1 Colony
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 2:01pm

Re:
That's fine if you want something 32" or smaller, but computer monitors generally aren't available at the larger sizes that TVs are. (Plus most don't have TV tuners and many don't have speakers, in case those are things you need your TV to have.)
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OldMugwump (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 3:09pm

Can't I just put a piece of tape over the camera lens?
...and stick a soldering iron in the hole where the microphone is?

Problem solved.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 3:37pm

Re: Re: A few simple rules...

Failure to connect your television to the internet, will cause the "software-license" to expire, preventing your television from displaying content from any source, regardless of where it was sourced from.

Meh. Do unencrypted sources even matter? My prediction is that you'll need to be online to use HDCP, as soon as its purveyors (Intel, Netflix, et al.) decide they can get away with it. Look at the Xbox One controversy.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 3:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Your concept of computer and web economics stinks to say the least.

What you are speaking of is barriers to entry that prevents small to medium size companies from competing but for large companies that sell thousands of product these fixed cost are insufficient on a per unit bases. As far as updates are concerned why would any sane company do that? By not updating they simply force obsolescence which forces the purchase of new equipment.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 3:39pm

Televisions are generally used within the home. Within the home will also be a more powerful computer also at that fixed location. The performance is better with greater end-user control using the tv as a dumb box with smart features handled by the computer.

This differed with the smart phone case. There was value added to the user in the form of a portable connected device for occasions a computer is inconvenient or not available. Good for quickly retrieving information at a glance.

That value added does not exist in the television market. You wind up with features that burden the customer. The only way to move that crappier product is to remove choice from the market. I'd look into collusion across the tv set manufacturers, agreeing to remove dumb sets as an option in order to screw the consumer.
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Gary (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 3:41pm

Tin Foil
I seem some pretty absurd suggestions about frequently wiping and flashing smart TV's. Not sure how that will help?
My "Smart" TV is hooked up to a computer that I built. It isn't on my wifi or the gigabit network.
This works for now. Eventually, they will either put a cel wireless device in the thing or lock it via software until you put it online.
Until then, my "Smart" TV is a large monitor.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 4:39pm

Re: Re:
This^.

If you need a TV as big as your wall, you already have issues. Don't worry about the spyware.

They do make dumb TVs (and monitors). They are just the "smaller"ones. Those who like the big ones are already paying for pointless extra tech like 4K and such anyway, on top of the smart TV BS. I don't think people give a crap.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 4:55pm

Re: Can't I just put a piece of tape over the camera lens?
Until all you get on the screen is "fault 1221, take the TV to a service centre to get it repaired".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 5:28pm

You do know that you don't have to hook the TV to the internet and it becomes a dumb TV?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
JoeCool (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 5:49pm

Re: Can't I just put a piece of tape over the camera lens?
The spying also includes the software making note of the channels you watch and when, which won't be solved with tape. I can imagine the conversation Junior has when he gets unsolicited ads in the mail from Playboy because he watched the Playboy Channel once and the spyware reported it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
morganwick (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 6:04pm

Re: Re:
I bet there are people who would pay a premium for a dumb TV that didn’t harvest their data and poorly secure it if at all.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 6:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's the ideal world. In reality, these things are never maintained or patched. That's why IoT is - to quote Techdirt - a dumpster fire.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Coyne Tibbets (profile), 15 Jan 2019 @ 7:11pm

Re: Re:
I take it you like buying boat anchors?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2019 @ 9:49pm

every so often i get confirmation that walking away from television was a good call.
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Cliff, 16 Jan 2019 @ 3:07am

Computer Monitor?
I have a nice 1080 monitor here with HDMI in, it doesn't have any "smarts", seems to do the trick. Add a tuner if you want a TV.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 7:07am

I have the last of the dumb TVs
My TV, a 40 inch Samsung HDTV was the last model that didn't include smarts. There was a companion Blueray player I could have gotten with it that had the smarts in it. It's nice having 4 HDMI ports, a VGA port, 2 sets of component ports, and a co-ax port for an actual antenna.

I haven't bought a new TV because I can't find a high-quality 4K dumb TV with at least 4 HDMI ports.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 7:10am

Re: Computer Monitor?
Where do I get a 60 to 70 inch 4K computer monitor?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 7:13am

Re: Re: Can't I just put a piece of tape over the camera lens?
A TV could also forward screenshots of the actual video. I haven't reviewed their privacy policies; I give 50/50 odds that they technically let the manufacturer use anything you displayed on your TV in advertisements.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 7:18am

Re: Tin Foil

My "Smart" TV is hooked up to a computer that I built. It isn't on my wifi or the gigabit network.

"UpdateTV is a multipath worldwide distribution system which allows digital televisions to automatically receive firmware upgrades and software patches sent out via terrestrial broadcast, digital cable networks, and the Internet. The network and technology has been under development by UpdateLogic since 2004, was completed in 2006, first shipped in TV sets in 2008 by Sony Electronics, and is now shipped in TVs from Sanyo and others.

In the terrestrial case, the UpdateTV solution ... will be datacast by National Datacast on PBS TV stations across the United States. Major cable operators are required by contract to transmit the data such that the software upgrades are also passed to their customers."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 16 Jan 2019 @ 8:00am

Re: Re:
"So, a smart person buys a smart TV and never connects it to the net to dumb it down - problem solved."

That. But do we really trust it won't jump in and connect to the first unsecured wifi connection? I still think a dumb TV set is a goal we should strive to achieve.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad (profile), 16 Jan 2019 @ 8:54am

Re: tl;dr
Teenagers getting access to porn by watching softcore TV shows on premium cable? What is this, the 1990s?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 8:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"You only have to write the software once and that has already been done." Response from a software engineer: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh, that's funny.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 8:57am

Re: Re:
What's to stop it from connecting to your neighbor's unsecured WiFi, or G3/4?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad (profile), 16 Jan 2019 @ 8:58am

Re: tl;dr
4K itself is generally useless in TVs, yes, considering that most people's vision isn't good enough to tell the different between 1920x1080 and 3840x2160 at standard TV sizes and viewing distances. However, a typical 4K TV now comes with HDR, which does make a significant difference in picture quality -- provided you can access content that actually supports it.

(4K resolutions may make more sense for computers, where you're sitting closer to the screen -- though getting accelerated graphics to run at decent framerates at 3840x2160 requires a pretty expensive graphics card. Or two.)
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 9:00am

Re:
Um, good luck getting a computer monitor with a remote. Sure, your Roku, et. al., has it's own remote, but what happens when you want to change inputs, etc.

Also, now you have to buy speakers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 9:03am

Re:
So, what do you do when it connects to your neighbor's unsecured WiFi or 3G/4G?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad (profile), 16 Jan 2019 @ 9:04am

Re: Re: Re:
I suspect he's suggesting, as Gary does downthread, that you can get smart TV features by hooking your TV up to a computer, thereby getting the benefits of streaming TV but also maintaining a greater degree of control about disclosing what you're watching (of course you'll still be sending your viewing habits to Netflix or Amazon or whoever, but not to your TV manufacturer).

However, as a couple of posters have noted, just because you didn't connect your TV to your wifi doesn't mean it's not phoning home. Can you be sure it's not hopping onto open wifi networks, or broadcasting data via RF?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 9:04am

Re: Computer Monitor?
Plus, a speakers. You also don't have a remote to change inputs, TV settings, etc.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Smartassicus the Roman, 16 Jan 2019 @ 9:25am

Justa Thought I Thunk
I have a Vizio "smart" TV. In fact, i'm looking at its screen right now. I knew when I bought it that it was full of crap that spies on me, but I never intended to attach it to the 'net either. It's my (very low quality piece of junk with latency so bad it smears when it scrolls) PC monitor.
The solution here I think is to put a sticker over the ethernet port, or a warning in the wireless setup, that you're a freakin idiot if you use the built-ins that steal your data and you the consumer bought it without thinking, so it's not Vizio's problem.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 9:59am

Re: Re: Computer Monitor?
Sound bars and WiFi mini keyboards solve those problems quite handily.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 10:55am

Re: Re:
I wonder if it would be profitable to buy smart TVs, lobotomize them and then resell them at cheaper than the non-subsidized cost.
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Dave, 16 Jan 2019 @ 11:05am

Gee…
No mention of the word "Telescreen" anywhere.
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Rocky, 16 Jan 2019 @ 11:10am

Re: Re: Re:
> I wonder if it would be profitable to buy smart TVs, lobotomize them and then resell them at cheaper than the non-subsidized cost.

1. Buy a TV set for $700
2. Spend 1 hour to lobotomize it
3. Sell it for $600.
4. Profit!

Wonder why no one thought of it before... /s
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 12:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I meant "compared to buying the raw components". Since they can't actually enforce anti-recycling.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thad (profile), 16 Jan 2019 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re:
I used to have a pretty decent 24" Samsung monitor that also had a TV tuner, remote, and speakers.

But it was only 24".
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 1:40pm

Vizo has been done for audio spying, data spying and worst of all, hiding a FUCKING WEBCAM inside the power button/LED which records and sends back images and video of whoever is watching, and whatever they're doing.

no doubt vizeo employeees regularly chuckle over seeing fat guys in their underpants watching dieting shows, and masturbate to couples having sex or children getting undressed.

HOW is vizio still an active company?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 1:44pm

Those assholes (and that's putting it nicely) were spying on our children in the privacy of our homes. They should all be spending life behind bars.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 1:46pm

Re: Justa Thought I Thunk
Its pixel camera in the screen wass not a selling point on the box it came in. oaf
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 1:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Computer Monitor?
The PlayStation 3 remotes are standard TV/DVD-style (but Bluetooth, not IR which is awful anyway) and easy to get, and are well supported by various media frameworks.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2019 @ 1:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Is that post 2008 economics?
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Whoever, 16 Jan 2019 @ 3:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:

However, as a couple of posters have noted, just because you didn't connect your TV to your wifi doesn't mean it's not phoning home. Can you be sure it's not hopping onto open wifi networks, or broadcasting data via RF?

I am not sure how "broadcasting data via RF" is different from using WiFI? Perhaps you really do mean "broadcasting", but that would require a nearby receiver and would be a privacy nightmare.

As for open WiFi, that is a possible concern, depending on where you live. Near my house, there are no truly open WiFi networks. A more likely possibility could be that the TV manufacturer purchases the right to use Xfinity or other ISP's hotspots and configures a default login to the TV.

I believe that any TV manufacturer that automatically connected to a WiFi network without being configuring by the owner is actively trying to destroy its reputation.
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Brian M. Forsythe (profile), 30 May 2019 @ 4:09am

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