This Week In Techdirt History: August 4th - 10th
from the back-in-the-day dept
Five Years Ago
This week in 2014, while President Obama was defending the CIA's increasingly exposed use of torture on the basis that they had a "tough job", James Clapper was defending the redactions in the torture report and calling them "minimal" — but Senators were calling it "incomprehensible", because even 15% redaction can hide all the critical details.
Meanwhile, comic artist Randy Queen was giving a crash course in DMCA abuse, using takedowns to censor blogs that were critical of his work, then claiming that posts criticizing this were defamatory, then doubling down yet again by trying to DMCA the posts about his DMCA abuse.
Ten Years Ago
This week in 2009, a Washington Post writer started an online journalism dust-up when he complained about Gawker "ripping off" his reporting with a blog post discussing and heavily linking to one of his articles. Other bloggers quickly pointed out that, in fact, the mainstream press "rips off" bloggers constantly, spurring more people to dig in and illustrate the entitlement mentality driving big media's complaints about blogs, and finally the suggestion that perhaps they should run their own blogs about their own reporting if they are so upset. Amidst this, the Associated Press was still digging in on their plan to DRM the news, with their text licensing calculator that would gladly charge you for any text whether it came from the AP or not, and ironically leveraging Creative Commons licensing language for their ill-fated DRM tech. We suggested the agency would be better off finding other services to offer newspapers, while competitor Reuters stepped up defended linking, excerpting and sharing.
Also this week in 2009, we published a long rebuttal to the RIAA's factually-challenged boasts about the Joel Tenenbaum verdict.
Fifteen Years Ago
This week in 2004, long before Joel Tenenbaum, we were wondering why the RIAA gets to hold parents responsible for their kids' downloading. The US was using trade negotiations to export the DMCA and software patents to Australia, as it likes to do, Hollywood succeeded in driving a DVD backup software company out of business, and for no particular reason the FCC happily voted that VoIP systems should be required to have wiretap backdoors for law enforcement — a fitting week for Tim Wu to write a post exploring how different regulatory schemes create a "copyright gap" that impacts the telephony and content industries in vastly different ways. We also got an important appeals court ruling that found websites devoted to criticizing companies are not commercial speech and thus do not constitute trademark infringement.
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Randy Queen: "I would encourage you to put a stop to all of this. I have no problem getting legal involved for defamation, and for your various allegations on your takedown notice thread, and am happy to send a formal cease and desist letter from my lawyer."
Holy shit you guys, I think we found John Smith!
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Re:
Except that Randy Queen eventually apologized and withdrew the DMCA notices.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/dmca-mea-culpa-randy-queen-apologizes-for-respo nse-to-criticism/
So, no, Randy Queen's probably not John Smith.
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Re: Re:
"So, no, Randy Queen's probably not John Smith."
True. Baghdad Bob would go balls to the wall with a circular argument and, in the end, complaining about how established reality failed to meet his "facts".
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Have you ever considered how the history of the Techdirt policy of Censorship reflects on Techdirt? Have you ever considered publicly defending your policy, describing your policy in detail, sharing with your own community the transparent details of how your censorship operates?
Or is it a secret that is too embarrassing to you to describe or defend?
I’m guessing the latter.
What kind of society thrives in darkness and secrecy? Criminals? Deviants?
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Moderation != Censorship
Techdirt is no government agency, so it can not censor.
As a private forum it can moderate (or redact) comments; any forum that wants sane readers has to keep (commercial) spam and insane rants under control. Techdirt allows its readers to add comments to the "please hide this" list and with enough votes they will be hidden from plain view.
And, because of my privacy, I won't tell Techdirt how I conclude a comment is off topic, spam, insane or a rant; which are my reasons to press the "flag" icon.
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Re: Moderation != Censorship
My point remains about secrecy. How many votes are enough? How do they balance against “insightful” or “funny” votes? Why not publish the vote count, if it is legitimate?
Why hide behinds words like “it can not censor” when it can hide posts? Why play with the meaning of words to make your point? Are you an attorney? Are you fighting to keep things hidden? Why is that?
Why not be transparent and open? What does it accomplish to hide behind generalizations? It makes Techdirt look illegitimate and phony, what is that a good thing?
Who is voting? What are their (fake) names? Why does everything need to be hidden from direct view? What are you afraid of?
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Re: Re: Moderation != Censorship
A more pertinent question:
Why do you not learn what is and is not acceptable here by how the community flags your comments?
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Re: Re: Re: Moderation != Censorship
I suppose because I am an eternal optimist, and I cherish and value free speech, open discussion and transparency. For example, I never admired the KKK, because they were comprised primarily of social misfits and idiots who wanted to hide behind their white sheets and cone head hoods in an effort to look formidable and to overcome their own obvious sense of weakness. I suppose I am hopeful that even the Techdirt regulars might one day embrace the idea of honest debate without feeling the need to hide comments that they cannot respond to. Maybe there are some legitimate ideas that could be learned from the people who frequent here if they would just get over the emotional bullshit and engage in a serious way with other adults about adult ideas.
I guess I have some ideals about what is and what is not acceptable, and I am doing my best to share my ideals with others. I have beliefs, I have heroes, I have convictions, and sometimes I am openly curious about how some of the people here came to their conclusions. I'm interested. I'm game.
Ok, maybe I'm bored sometimes and a little Techdirt therapy makes me happy. IT COULD HAPPEN! REASONABLE VOICES COULD BE HEARD AND RESPECTED HERE! THE CHILDISH NONSENSE COULD BE CALLED OUT FOR WHAT IT IS.
Maybe. Could be. You never know until you try!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Moderation != Censorship
"I suppose I am hopeful that even the Techdirt regulars might one day embrace the idea of honest debate without feeling the need to hide comments that they cannot respond to."
Uh huh.
AS long as that "honest debate" consists of you claiming a factual impossibility, a flagrant racist ideal, or a concept of abject totalitarianism along with the implicit or outright statement that anyone disagreeing with you has to be bought, deranged, or a monster, then I think you'll keep getting your comments flagged.
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Re: Re: Re: Moderation != Censorship
Speak for only yourself because it is only a subset, of unknown size and identity, of those reading articles and comments who act like entitled snowflakes by hiding comments and causing inconvenience to others.
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Techdirt is under no legal, moral, or ethical obligation to tell you how its moderation system works. If’n you can’t deal with that fact, go pound sand.
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Re:
What is it that you fear so deeply?
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Death, taxes, and a CGI reboot of Chip ’n Dale Rescue Rangers.
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Oh I know it. It’s the weird way their fur moves.
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None of your business is the answer to all of your questions.
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Re:
You aren't very bright if you conflate community moderation with censorship, or did you just decide that a disingenuous potshot was the best way to soothe your hurt feelings?
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Re: Re:
Why do you need to change the conversation to my IQ when I ask straightforward questions? Why do you focus on emotions when I am asking about facts and figures? Why are you avoiding the simple question about being open and transparent? Why not publish what people think, why is it better to hide what people think?
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Why is it better to let an asshole open their mouth, watch their shit drop out, and do nothing to clean it up?
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Re:
It's part of the cycle. Makes fertilizer to encourage more mouths opening up. See: Hidden posts, most of them anyway
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Re:
You are very persuasive.
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Re: Re: Re:
Very simple, if you conflate two obviously different things you are either not to bright or you are very disingenuous.
If you don't understand that distinction you are even worse off than I thought.
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Re: Re: Re:
Why not publish what people think
Please point us to your much better blog where you do all this. Thanks!!
Put up or shutup, if you think TD is doing it wrong take your thumb out of your ass and prove it by doing better.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Please point us to your much better blog where you do all this. Thanks!! "
I'm not sure we want people dropping more links to infowars or stormfront than we're already seeing around here...
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Re: Re: Re:
Do you like shit eating hamilton better or crybaby hamilton?
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Re:
Have you ever considered how the history of the Techdirt policy of Censorship reflects on Techdirt?
Seeing that you think nobody reads this insignificant site? No, not much would reflect. Why do you care so much?
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Re:
What kind of society thrives in darkness and secrecy?
There is a secret society of dimwits that come here to post their praise of copyright when they aren't writing self-help books. They post anonymously and off topic. Hmmmm.
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Re:
Have you ever considered publicly defending your policy, describing your policy in detail, sharing with your own community the transparent details of how your censorship operates?
Well let's see. Our policy is: we allow completely open, anonymous comments without requiring the creation of an account or even the provision of a temporary email address - one can simply type anything they want in the box, hit submit and (barring a few spam filters that try to keep the deluge of spam out of our comments, and can occasionally misfire) it will show up on the site.
Perhaps we do need to offer a defense of this policy. After all, it is extremely rare, practically unheard of on the modern web - in comparison to most blogs, and all social media, our comment section is one of the most open and least moderated on the web. It's true that some people think this is crazy of us, and that we should be doing more to block/ban people like you, since to most of our commenters you don't add anything of value and in fact detract from the quality of discussion by poisoning it with bad-faith questions (which appears to be your goal).
To those people I would defend our policy thusly: we get so much great content from completely anonymous commenters (they won both first place spots in this week's comments post, which will be appearing shortly!) that we're willing to put up with the people who abuse the system for the purpose of trolling and disruption. We love the anonymous portion of our audience and are committed to accommodating them, and we have plenty of readers who have very good reasons for wanting to remain anonymous when they engage here. We value them more than we value the idea of blocking off some trolls.
Beyond that, we don't have much in the way of a "policy". We do have a very basic voting/reporting system that can result in some comments receiving small badges of recognition, while others have a single click placed in between them and the reader. That can't be what you're referring to though, since only a paranoid weirdo or a disingenuous troll would complain about that as "censorship".
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Remember: For the troll brigade, having their comments hidden is the same thing as being told “you can’t say that anywhere”, even though those two things are not the same thing. They think they’re owed an audience for their ramblings — and they think you’re supposed to give them that audience without interference. Why? I have no idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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This troll seems to be complaining that the shopping mall does not supply him with a soapbox and a megaphone to spread his ranting.
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They think they’re owed an audience for their ramblings — and they think you’re supposed to give them that audience without interference. Why? I have no idea.
Selfish entitlement for the first, and as for the second it's not that difficult to guess given that said 'interference' inevitably and for reasons clear to anyone honest is their comments being flagged and hidden by the community, rather than having them being able to filling up the comments with garbage.
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Re: Re:
OK, I see, you have no reason for hiding your unknown and unexpressed policy of censorship, by which I mean hiding some comments and not hiding other comments. Instead of actually explaining in detail who applies this censorship, or how it is applied, or when it is applied, or for what reason, you point out that anyone who asks is a paranoid weirdo or a disingenuous troll.
You understand how ridiculous that sounds, right? You sound deluded.
What prevents your censorship system, which is completely unknown to anyone other than yourself, from being abused? Are there any checks and balances? Is there any guidance for people who post about what content is considered unwelcome and what is welcome?
It would appear the only welcome comments are those comments that agree with your views, is that right? Are you open to any alternate views? Have you ever learned anything from someone who had a different view, or do you only consider your views to be reasonable?
Why do you resort to name calling when asked simple questions? Why are disgusting comments talking about body parts and feces not censored?
Why do you act like a little girl afraid of a confrontation and not a reasonable adult that can consider points of view other than your own? Why focus on name calling? Are you ok?
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Re: Re: Re:
"we have plenty of readers who have very good reasons for wanting to remain anonymous when they engage here"
What are those "good reasons"? Trying to appear as multiple people when in fact they are just a single voice? Saying something untrue in public but disguising your identity (like the KKK or Anti-Fa) to avoid any consequences?
Are you the same as the KKK and Anti-Fa? Is that what you're saying?
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
What's your reason then?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And if this blog is as censorious as you claim it is, why post here if you know your comments are likely to be hidden? I avoid online places I don't like, I don't hop into the comments to complain about them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
“Trying to appear as multiple people when in fact they are just a single voice? ”
Nah bro that’s just you projecting like a champ.
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Yes, there is. It’s called “look at the hidden comments, then don’t post the same kind of trash”.
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Positive guidance works better:
For the trolls that can't seem to see their behaviour from the viewpoint of another, some tips, without guarantee:
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Re:
So, if I understand you, the trick is to (first) read the minds of future readers, such as yourself, and post something that I know you find interesting and relevant
Then, my use of English should be comprehensible at least at the junior high level (where the use of the word "shit" was banned)
Only talk about what other people have already talked about and agreed to.
Create that delicate balance between providing enough details to define "solid arguments", but avoid being "overly long or otherwise rambling".
Thanks for that.
Probably nobody is interested in any opinions that don't follow this outline, am I right? If comments don't follow this outline, they should be censored, is that what you are saying?
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What we’re saying, Hamilton, is that your posts wouldn’t get flagged if you weren’t such a disingenuous asshole whose so-called “arguments” would barely qualify you for a spot on a debate squad made up of first graders, let alone one made up of adults.
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Re: Re:
Probably nobody is interested in any opinions
Well you did get one point correct Hammy. Congrats!
Your posts are shit and you are a crybaby. If you don't like the TD moderation system, feel free to make a super-duper blog with clear rules that prevent people form calling you a shithead. :)
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Re: Re: Re:
Personally I like how he complains about multiple geolocation snowflakes and insists that they're all the same person... via using multiple geolocation snowflakes.
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Re: Re: Re:
I see you consistently conflate moderation with censorship (which is why one of the reasons your posts are getting flagged) which means you are either stupid enough to think they are the same or you are just being disingenuous.
Which one is it: Are you stupid or are you disingenuous?
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
Tell me again why the comment I am responding to should not be censored. I didn’t find his comment interesting, or his argument sound, well reasoned or supported. It looks like a very clumsy use of a false choice, obvious to the point of being farcical on it’s face.
Should this nonsense comment be censored, by your own standards of acceptance?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It seems you don't know the difference between moderation and censorship... See my post above for what that means for you.
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Re: Re: Re:
you have no reason for hiding your unknown and unexpressed policy of censorship, by which I mean hiding some comments and not hiding other comments
Is that all? The policy is simple:
Some comments get hidden because enough people click the "report" button on them. Others do not, because not enough people click the "report" button on them.
Glad I could clear that up!
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Re: I think we shall call you crybaby bitch hamilton
Why do you act like a little Bitch?
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Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring to it
We might have to give crybaby Jhon’s title over to you hamilton.
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Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring to it
I know the AC trolls want their privacy, but why can't Crybaby and Blue Balls just pick a screen name?
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Re: Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring to it
Blueballs stopped because it made it easier to flag his spam. Jhon stopped because he didn’t want to be linked to the posts where he threatened rape and violence.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring to it
Blue then continued to shoot himself in the foot by picking different names each time with an easily recognizable format.
If he thought doing so would hide the fact that it's him doing so, he forgot (or never knew) that pattern recognition is a pretty basic human trait.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring t
Crybaby Blue Balls wants to be recognized, but doesn't want anyone to be able to automatically find his old posts.
Look at how he has downloaded (and counted!) all my posts so he can stay up late and pour over them and count how many times I've called him "Corn Fed Wanker" or "Midwest Neo Nazi."
Since he changes his names, it is easy for a human to spot, not so easy for a computer.
Jhn Smith (The very fine scam artist) is a grifter plain and simple - he doesn't want to get pinned down. If he actually had a legitimate book business he'd be shoving his links in our face every post. Since he is using TOR he feels liberated and can make rape threats, cry about police charges, and then go home and fuck his goats without worry.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ri
I am no psych doc but I am fairly certain Blueballs suffers from schizophrenia. If you go back to his earlier post he can form reasonably well thought out essays. Contrast that to anything from the last year or two. He can barely form a complete sentence anymore. That and the obsessive cataloging and delusions that Gary and whoever are all the same person and that the flagging system are rigged, are also dead giveaways.
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I'm not sure schizophrenia would be the right label, but they've definitely got something broken up top.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring t
Basic pattern recognition has never been a strength of his.
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Re: Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring to it
"I know the AC trolls want their privacy, but why can't Crybaby and Blue Balls just pick a screen name?"
He more or less has to change it. Once he threatens one poster with rape, SWATting or personal visits he thinks it would reflect badly on him if his next comment is all about how he feels threatened and butthurt over the mean things the other posters are saying about him. In that, at least, he is correct.
I think what you (and probably most of us) really want to ask is; How the f*ck can he think changing his nick while keeping his rhetoric the same will trick anyone else into thinking it isn't the same guy? Especially if he keeps referring to what he posted earlier under that nick?
But that's what makes him Baghdad Bob, i guess.
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Re: Re: crybaby hamilton does have a bit of a ring to it
I know the AC trolls want their privacy, but why can't Crybaby and Blue Balls just pick a screen name?
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Here's an insightful comment:
Shiva Ayyadurai didn't invent email, and his campaign against Elizabeth Warren was a complete flop.
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Re:
Not just a flop. He got humiliated so badly he haven’t been able to show his face in public since then.
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Allahu Akbar!
The U.S. must take Monroe Doctrine now.
The U.S. must withdraw American Forces from all Foreign Countries now.
Stop America's doing its all wars now!
The U.S. must return to the gold standard now!
The U.S. must adopt the gold standard again now!
The U.S. must decrease its military-budget to 100-billion-dollar per year now.
Or, the U.S. must decrease its military-budget to 1% of its GDP now.
I love American99% and the U.S.
Germany and Japan must loosen Germany's and Japan's monetary policies now!
Germany and Japan must stimulate Germany's and Japan's domestic demands now!
Japan and Germany must issue a lot of construction bond now!
Japan and Germany must reduce Germany's and Japan's taxes now!
The U.S. must tighten its monetary policy now!
As a result, Dollar value will rise!
The U.S. will have trade surplus!
Japan and Germany are evil empires.
Islamists' true enemies are Japan, Germany, FRB, Top1%, Wall Street, American Military Industry and DOD!
Japan is the country which has been promoting Globalization!!!
Allahu Akbar!
American Revolutionary War!
We American 99% have the 2nd amendment!
American Revolutionary War!
Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) and Japanese-bureaucrats are the main largest promoters of FTA.
Wall-Street, American-top1%, American-Military-Industry are colluding with Japan and Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI).
US DOD, Japan and Germany are enemies of American99%.
US DOD, Japan and Germany are enemies of mankind.
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Re:
Oh look it’s baby’s first shit-post.
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