Funniest/Most Insightful Comments Of The Week At Techdirt
from the whaddaya-say dept
This week, our first place winner on the insightful side is That One Guy responding to our post about the Supreme Court being asked to tell cops they can't destroy someone's home just because they consented to a search:
As always, 'no one is dumber than a cop' is apparently the rule
"Giving officers permission to search your house should never mean giving them permission to leave you with no place to live."
The punchline of course in that by bending over backwards to protect the cops who trashed a house the ninth circuit has sent a very clear message: Never grant police permission to search anything, because so long as they are creative in what they do they can get away with basically anything.
If the want to engage in a search of any sort demand a warrant, as that at least presents some sort of guidelines as to what they can do, and removes one of the excuses available to them if they go overboard.
"The person they were seeking had vacated the residence before officers stopped Shaniz West and threatened her with arrest if she didn't 'consent' to a search of her house."
If that is what they consider 'consent' then I dearly hope none of the judges involved in this case are ever in a position to judge a mugging, armed robbery or rape case. 'Consent' granted when faced with a threat of punishment for refusal is not 'consent' by any remotely reasonable standard.
In second place, it's Rocky asking the simple question that advocates of mandatory social media moderation never seem able to answer:
Facebook has 2.45 billion active users, how do you propose to implement mandatory moderation?
For editor's choice on the insightful side, we've got a pair of additional points raised in response to the mandatory moderation concept. First, it's Glen noting the global challenges:
Add to this. How to you moderate to the standards in the US, Canada, the UK, the EU and damn near everybody else?
Next, it's Stephen T. Stone with the important reminder that moderation is the point of Section 230:
The entire, original, on-the-record intent of 230 was to allow legal moderation of speech. Any change to 230 that goes against said intent will invite one of the two outcomes I mentioned. No company wants to face legal liability for third party posts, so it’ll either shut down a platform to avoid that liability altogether or leave that platform unmoderated to avoid the kind of liability laid out in the Prodigy ruling. You can’t take away a platform’s right to legally moderate speech post-Prodigy and still expect the platform to moderate speech.
Over on the funny side, we're going to flip things around, because the first place winner is in fact a reply to the second place winner. So, in second place, it's Jeffrey Nonken responding to YouTube's preemptive copyright takedown of a livestream that hadn't started:
I hereby claim copyright on everything that has not yet been created.
You'll be hearing from my lawyer. All of you. Everyone.
And, in a demonstration of the power of comedy duos, an anonymous commenter won first place by replying and outdoing the original joke:
And thus Nonken spake, "behold, for I have created all that is; for naught may be created but through me."
• Profits 36:50
For editor's choice on the funny side, we've got Norahc with a comment about Tulsi Gabbard's lawsuit against Hillary Clinton:
Who knew the Nunes Effect was a bipartisan effort?
And finally, it's an anonymous commenter zeroing in on one of the overlooked flaws in Lindsey Graham's anti-230 bill — its call for "a presidential commission of experts":
If that isn't an oxymoron in 2019, I don't know what is.
(Yes, the comment gets the year wrong, but 2020 has yet to deliver us from its truth.)
That's all for this week, folks!
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Committee of experts
This might be the last time we got close. President Kennedy’s Science Advisory Committee, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooley%E2%80%93Tukey_FFT_algorithm
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Re: Committee of experts
Well, the Challenger investigation was pretty good, once Feynmann got involved.
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And something to cap off the weekend
Synths played with sausages https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDAFHQ6G1mv8Q&v=AFHQ6G1mv8Q
Test equipment totem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSlXiUOIBU
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This week on Under the Bridge Reporting, Techdirt continues its zero-accident track record of no trolls featured in Funniest/Most Insightful. The casual reader might consider this a non-threat, but the same thing was once said about the likes of John Steele and Charles Harder. Just because an idiot is an idiot is no indication that he won’t cause problems down the line. And holy cannoli did the troll brigade put in work these past two weeks, their disunited strategies aside.
This fortnight’s feature starts us out with, as much as it makes me throw up in my mouth a little, ROGS! If for any reason you ever wanted to know what would happen when antidirt, Shiva Ayyadurai, out_of_the_blue and John Smith walked into a glory hole operated by Tara Carreon… well, when a group of trolls really love each other they somehow generate this clusterfuck trying to pass off as intelligent life. Even going on the very kind assumption that ROGS is like totes serious right now, I’m not even sure what the hell ROGS is doing here. You don’t exactly have to go very far to see that Techdirt is not a site that looks kindly on cops misbehaving. Hell, there’s even a recurring anonymous troll that pisses and moans whenever Tim Cushing writes an article about it (No, not talking about btr1701, I’ve already gone on at length to explain why he’s not one).
But for some reason ROGS feels the need to go on at length about the police forming gangs. And I don’t mean it in the way of a comedic roast or Pulitzer-level exposé, I mean in the way that would make Alex Jones piss his pants. ROGS will post about cop gangs on any thread with a fanaticism that would make John Smith and his Section 230 hateboner blush. If ROGS described Techdirt he’d say it was run by Christian-Scientologists who love cop cosplay during intercourse with Jews… because it’s ROGS. Imagine a guy walking into a vegetarian salad bar bearing a sign saying “Meat is Evil”, and goes on to explain that it’s because the beef industry is secretly implanting astatine isotopes that render us vulnerable to zeta-gamma rays broadcast by the true Illuminati from the Oort Cloud and anyone who disagrees with him must be a reptilian helicopter in disguise… and you’d have a pretty decent analog for what ROGS does here.
Effort alone doesn’t make a troll worthy, though. Relevance to pet peeves and topics is essential when you’re trying to rile up a community even if you’re shitposting and needlessly antagonising notable members, which is why Hamilton had a great run trying to huff and puff Shiva’s attempts to be anyone significant. Still, ROGS doesn’t come close to Tero Pulkinnen’s bulk just yet, but in ROGS’ defense tp has been busy shitting up his own threads for a couple weeks and counting, and has somehow managed to appear level-headed compared to ROGS. Techdirt users did get a gem this week though, as tp himself admitted that his work involved trolling random nobody websites as part of his marketing strategy. Just in case there were any good Samaritans out there still thinking there’s something worth salvaging from this waste of oxygen and Scandinavia’s welfare system.
And just when you thought it was safe to post in the Section 230 threads again, here comes John Herrick Smith himself! After missing out on shaking his fist at Masnick in the 2019’s New Year Message thread, you didn’t think John Smith would miss out on a bitchfest over Section 230, did you? Bill Barr and Joe Biden getting involved (i.e. cursorily shaking their heads with the usual “something must be done rhetoric”) was too much for Herrick to mask his giddy glee, and he went on the usual offensive of lawyer gangs, employers reading 4chan to gauge employees, and even kids getting killed by round-the-clock stalking. A solid showing and proof that Jhon boi hasn’t lost his douche, I mean touch, since his New Year’s absence. Really all we were missing was a mention of Rose McGowan and how women sleep their way to power. Time will tell if John reaches his peak like he usually does when Strike 3 is mentioned, but given his late showing he’s already got some big shoes to fill from the non-veterans.
Rounding up this week’s report, a wild Richard Bennett appeared! Save for a few 18 Jan showings, Bennett hasn’t been his usual apoplectic self, which is an oddity given that the idea Karl Bode exists makes him froth at the mouth like a rabid dog. Why’s that? One guess is that ol’ Dick Bent has been busy doing damage control on Ars Technica after Jon Brodkin pointed out all the funds Comcast didn’t put into investment… yet again. Cue Bennett with lips stammering, face coloring, fists pumping as he swears that Comcast has the best service everywhere! …Oh, it doesn’t? It will! For realsies! And why would you actually want the best service anyway? Why, it must be because you’re a pirate! Bennett’s choice of arena is especially strange this time round, given that Ars is historically far less tolerant of his brand of snake oil and is very willing to make his garbage far less visible. Who knows? Perhaps Bennett’s tsundere schoolgirl act for Bode now has a rival in Brodkin?
That’s all for this week’s report. Remember, readers: feed a torrent, starve a troll!
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If you want to starve a troll, this isn't going to do it.
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Re:
If they want to encourage trolls and therefore be just as bad and deserving of being flagged as them though it's a great idea.
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Re: Re:
This guy is giving us conscientious trolls a bad name.
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Re: Re:
Just make sure your own shortsidedness isn't the problem.
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Re:
Because keeping quiet and pandering to Jhon boi's sensitivities worked out so well now, didn't it? I'm sure bhull's engagement of Mr. Organized Gang Stalking got him to stop insulting lesbian AI chatbots. Or PaulT getting tp to admit he had a A+ career in trolling (which was hilarious, I might add).
If I'm going to sit through a troll infestation I'd much prefer to be entertained.
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I know this is rich coming from me, but: Find something better to do.
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Re: Re:
If I'm going to sit through a troll infestation I'd much prefer to be entertained.
You're not 'being entertained', you're providing the entertainment to the trolls, as they can just sit back and watch someone spend literally paragraphs gushing about them even when they haven't even shown up.
Refusing to feed the trolls and just flagging them may or may not actually work, but responses like yours, showing that they've got you suckered into fixating on them to the point that you're bringing them up without them saying a thing? That's just troll baiting that ensures that they'll stick around, as they know that as fixated as they might be on trolling TD and it's community there's at least one person just as fixated on them.
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Re: Re: Re:
Guess we'd better remove burglar alarms, then. They're noisy, get triggered at the wrong times, and shows that the homeowners have concerns about burglary, which means they're fixated on burglars! And burglary still exists despite all the effort, which means the burglars win!
Want to know what lures the trolls, TOG? Restating the point of the article in a sarcastic tone that could be summed as "Uh huh, no shit Sherlock". That's most of your input, which earned many an insightful vote, and contributes just as much.
Another surefire way to get trolls to come back is to start defending them from the people who call out their trollish behavior. Why would I stop trolling when some white knight is going to make it a point to criticize my detractors?
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
In this case the "burglar alarm" is the flag button, so you've been hoisted by your own sarcasm.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nah. It's the "asking trolls to stop their behavior" by continuing to engage with them, then getting offended when when other users decide to make lemonade out of lemons and make fun of the trolls instead.
The problem is, unlike blue and Hamilton and ROGS, the countertrolls aren't particularly bothered if their messages get flagged. Odds are you'll engage with flagged posts anyway. You engage with Jhon Smith. Your post histories are full of it.
Flag if it means that much to you. The rest of us are, at least, not so easily triggered.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I won't. Showing flagged posts requires JavaScript, and that's blocked. Well, technically I could do it by viewing the page source and copy-pasting the reply link, but why would I invest so much effort into digging up manure?
Are you confusing me with someone else? I don't even have an account.
Hah. I never flagged a troll comment. I just ignore them, which I guess means I'm less easily triggered than you.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
Guess we'd better remove burglar alarms, then. They're noisy, get triggered at the wrong times, and shows that the homeowners have concerns about burglary, which means they're fixated on burglars! And burglary still exists despite all the effort, which means the burglars win!
Last I checked burglar alarms aren't sentient, don't encourage burglars, and don't deliberately go off even when there's nary a burglar to be seen.
Want to know what lures the trolls, TOG? Restating the point of the article in a sarcastic tone that could be summed as "Uh huh, no shit Sherlock". That's most of your input, which earned many an insightful vote, and contributes just as much.
Oh yes, what could possibly draw the trolls out more than sarcasm from someone who, barring rare occasions, has shown no interest in giving the trolls attention?
As for the sarcasm in my comments, no contest, but if you want to argue that troll baiting/fixating on trolls that aren't even in a comment section is even remotely equivalent you've got quite the uphill battle making that case.
Another surefire way to get trolls to come back is to start defending them from the people who call out their trollish behavior. Why would I stop trolling when some white knight is going to make it a point to criticize my detractors?
If you think calling someone out for dancing to the tune of the trolls is 'defending' said trolls you've got some rather interesting definitions there, but if you really want to act as their fan and give them the attention they so eagerly desire knock yourself out, just don't be surprised if you get flagged right along with them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Know what lures trolls? Masnick existing. Trolls are going to happen. Flagging someone calling them out is not going to make them go away. It's not a matter of equivalency. It happens. You telling off a bunch of people who like making fun of the usual mental defectives is drawing more attention to the original wall of text, if anything.
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Yes, trolls will show up here no matter what. That doesn’t mean we need to lure them out or look like we obsess over them. The wall of text that is the OP of this discussion thread does both.
I give the trolls shit, sure. Every once in a rare while, I’ll even try to lure them out because I know a specific story will “trigger”¹ them. But other than knowing trolls by their specific posting styles (because I’ve been here long enough and often enough to know), I don’t keep track of them. I have better things to do than obsess over a bunch of pissant shitheads in a comments section on a tech blog. For god’s sake, I could be watching police procedurals on Ion Television right now.
¹ — Yes, I’m aware that this usage is the much-maligned slang version. I don’t often use that word in that context, but doing so felt appropriate here.
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Re:
What makes you think you aren't a troll, Stone?
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What makes you think I’m not aware?
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Re:
The sanctimonious of your posts in this thread bro.
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I'm not the one who claims with moral superiority that engaging with the trolls, preempting their behavior, is letting the trolls "win". Trolls declare they "win" no matter what on their terms. I say those definitions are garbage. If they're getting attention, let it be in the form of them being put in the worst possible light.
You're the ones saying that calling attention to their shitty behavior makes them "win". Being that keen to point out troll "victories" sounds like a solid defense of what they believe in. I don't know what rules you run where "You just let the trolls win! I say so!" is more insightful than "Here's Dick Bent acting like a complete tool", but I don't exactly do this for insightful votes. You do you.
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I’ve been on the Internet long (and often…) enough to know that trolls won’t stop so long as they’re not facing consequences for their bullshit. But the proper consequences for trollish behavior is banning their asses. Techdirt’s grand poobahs either can’t or won’t ban trolls, so engaging the trolls only emboldens them to keep going. I’ve been on both sides of the “aisle” in this situation (thank/fuck you, 4chan), so I speak from experience when I say engaging trolls may not be the worst possible option here, but it sure as hell ain’t the best.
And yes, I’m well aware that I’ve engaged Techdirt trolls plenty of times. I can’t credibly claim any level of moral superiority in that regard. But I’m trying harder to pull back on the instict to dunk on them. One particular troll shit up the comments on a couple of articles today; rather than dunk on their inanity as I would have in the past, I flagged their posts and moved on.
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Re:
"Engaging the trolls only emboldens them to keep going". Not engaging them doesn't do jack either. The Devin Nunes Memo and Anti-Vaxx Moderation threads should tell you all you need to know there. Even after most readers have gone past the "capable of giving a fuck" phase trolls will post. Maybe engaging isn't the best option, but last I remember Masnick is not fond of the nuking plan. If trolls are here to stay what's the harm in poking some fun?
It's not like this happens all the time. This was literally the second of these roast posts. There was no downside to you flagging and moving on from the original post, and yet here we are. You chose to add to this discussion of ethics in troll reaction.
Let's face it, roasting trolls is one slice of the bread and butter of what drives engagement here. Years of funniest/insightful comment counts prove that. It's not going away. Trolls aren't going away. Anti-troll reactions aren't going away. Just flag and move on and let the rest of the Schadenfreude enthusiasts have their fun.
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Newsflash, Stephie Wonder - that doesn't matter. out_of_the_blue, for one, has claimed that the blue background of "First Word" and "Last Word" is a jab at his expense because it's blue. Nobody has to do anything to "look like we obsess". That's the point. You and other signed in posters acting like a baby was devoured isn't helping.
I'll just leave you to your petard, then.
Neither do I. I find that annoying, personally. I'd love to be able to find the thread in 2010 where Masnick tore antidirt a new one and everyone for a while responded to him by linking to that comment. Or the time when Jhon commented he enjoys stepping on little boy dicks and you went "FBI, OPEN UP".
And yet here you are. OP isn't the one getting trolls to come back. It's you.
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Nope bro. Russel Crowe was right all along.
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Really Stephen bro? You of all people, who are like into an automatic cat feeder for trolls. Bland, dry, but will always put out some feed when pressed. You of all people are gonna complain about feeding the trolls?
Com’on bro..
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I don’t try to actively lure them out.
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Re:
Who's luring them out? Last I checked the previous post didn't lure them out either.
I don't do these posts to lure the idiots out. I'm personally glad that blue hasn't shown his ass in three months and counting. (I would have preferred it if Herrick was lured on December 31st but that's neither here nor there.) I do these to entertain those who like to see copyright nutjobs get profiled as the fucked-in-the-head bottom-feeders they are. If that rustles your jimmies sure, flag and move on. I tried that shit. I found being an ad hoc comedian of dubious quality to be the far more enjoyable solution.
I think the other AC has said enough on you getting all bothered at Herrick getting insulted.
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Re: Re:
Thank you for your good work sir.
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We don’t need you to lay bare your obsession with the trolls for us to know that.
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Re: So in their words...
Hence why I didn’t say lure them out. I said feed them.
Come on bro...
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Distinction without a difference. Trolls typically want one thing — attention — and showing them that they have yours, in any way, gives them what they want. Responding to them is one way. Making ridiculously obsessive callout posts like the OP of this discussion thread, which is practically begging for replies from the trolls, is another.
If anything, the AC who kicked off this discussion thread is also a troll. They gave the trolls attention without contributing anything worth a damn towards any actual discussion. That AC’s obsession has made them the very thing over which they obsess, and they don’t even realize it.
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Re: I learned it from watching you.
So in other words, you’re admitting you feed the trolls like clockwork but you are mad when someone else preemptively does it. Because that to me sounds like the real distinction without a difference as you do pithily put it bro.
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Re:
And had you flagged my original comment... what would you have gained or lost, exactly, had you chose not to feed me?
I've already mentioned, I tried that "be better" shit. If you think that was what caused the inexplicable disappearance of blue in the 2015 Techdirt era I've got a bridge to sell you. As for contributing to the topic, it's really not hard to look at post histories. Even ryuugami can be tracked by his nickname. If you think calling me a troll is going to stop me calling out idiocy by all means, go for it.
At some point "Be better" turns into a trash philosophy. I'd argue it's a contributory mentality to why copyright and IP laws are so ridiculously imbalanced. Because no matter how far IP idiots sink there's always some fucknugget who says, "Hey, I know these laws let corporations sue corpses but let's continue to give them benefit of the doubt in case someone does become unable to afford a 32nd gold mansion!" "Be better" is an instruction to roll over no matter how unfavorably the deck is stacked, no matter how much your ass hurts. Fuck that noise with a railroad spike.
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Re: Surely a coincidence
Am I the only one to find it darkly ironic that Mr Stone has chosen, just now, in this very thread, to “not engage the trolls?”
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It’s less ironic and more ridiculous, but no, you’re not the only one.
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Re: Your rhetorical tricks won’t work on me
The ridiculous part is you using all the logical fallacies that you decry in others, instead of manning up and admitting you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. And by ridiculous I mean massively hypocritical. But hey bro, at this point I’m just trolling you to get a rise out of you. And now you’re fucked either way. You respond, you’re feeding the trolls. You don’t, you’re too much a coward to own up to fucking up.
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Re: Re: Your rhetorical tricks won’t work on me
In a nutshell this is why, as I've explained, the "be better" bull doesn't work when it comes to approaching trolls. But I wouldn't go so far as to call Stephen a hypocrite. Same reason why I don't think btr1701 qualifies as a troll the way Zof does - different thresholds for different folks.
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Re: Re: Re: Your rhetorical tricks won’t work on me
He’s a hypocrite for using really shitty logical fallacies if nothing else. That and getting god knows how many insightful/funny’s for dunking on the little shits.
I agree about btr. He’s a fascist, but at least he’s honest about it. I disagree slightly about Zof. I think he really is that stupid.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Your rhetorical tricks won’t work on me
At some point every argument turns into a logical fallacy. I won't deny, though, that I am purposefully being obnoxious, and if that makes me a troll, I'm not exactly losing any sleep over it. But I'll concede the point that given how many profiled posts by the regular signed-in users are, as you put it, "dunking on the little shits", it does seem at least a little hypocritical.
As for Zof, why can't he both be really that stupid and a troll?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your rhetorical tricks won’t work on me
“ I won't deny, though, that I am purposefully being obnoxious, and if that makes me a troll, I'm not exactly losing any sleep over it.”
Bro I think we might be brothers from another mother.
Zof, to me honestly seems like he believes the last thing anyone tells him. But who knows maybe he’s suckering us all by acting’s like he’s dumber than a concussed NFL player.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your rhetorical tricks won’t work on m
Zof gives me the impression that he tries his hardest to be edgy like fans of Shadow the Hedgehog, by being counterculture and expressing disdain for authority or just older people in general, hence his "linkedinisforolderpeople" LinkedIn URL. A lot of that disdain and counterculture, by definition, is going to be obnoxious, and I'm personally not a fan of LinkedIn myself. I'm not fond of how it's basically Facebook for corporate types patting each other on the back and stroking each other off, and how this is now the standard everyone needs to have to be taken seriously as a person, although this might be inherent to humanity and our odd relationship with leaders in general and not something LinkedIn can fix, even if it might want to.
Thing is, you can't simply be obnoxious and expect to be taken as insightful. You still need to make a point besides "yo mama" jokes. And for some dumbass reason Zof decided the best hill to die on is the Trump Presidency...
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Re: Hey Stephan I know you’re still here bro
What makes me think he’s not just being an edgelord is how he thinks “this time I will get them” every single time. And then proceeds to shit the bed with the right-lites latest and greatest talking points. Poor boy has a bad case of 18 going on 80.
Also I’d like to meet just a single person who got a job offer from LinkedIn. It would be like meeting a unicorn in real life.
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Re: Re: Hey Stephan I know you’re still here bro
I don't have an exact definition for edgelord, but I think there's something inherent in counterculture movements that makes adherents have a "me against the world" mentality that could lead to a "I'll get you next time!" mode. Maybe that's what drives Zof, which again is something that makes no sense. Zof's gone and made himself about as attractive to interact with as average_joe, aka "masnick y u no debate me" antidirt.
LinkedIn is not the kind of platform for actual job searches if you're an average Joe Schmoe on the street. I'd say it's more like a more "professional" Facebook that tries to set itself up as an elite place where all the "cool kids" gather to go through revolving doors in employment, while storing data on anyone using it so employers have yet another invasive method to scrutinize prospects. It's Facebook, except instead of old people sharing "Why Trump is totes the best" it's old people sharing "Why I can't stand millennials and they should just pull up their bootstraps like I did".
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Good thing that’s not the point. Must be hard to tell from that extremely high horse you’re riding up and down the thread on though.
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10/10, would love it when due process is enforced again.
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TL/DR
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Ah, but I win first place, too, because I claim copyright on his comment! BWAH HAH HAH HAH!
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