Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Country To Try To Make Safe Voting More Difficult
from the self-interest-shouldn't-be-so-blindingly-apparent-y'all dept
Anyone still hoping for an orderly election and, if need be, a peaceful transition of power hasn't been paying attention to much that's happened over the past few months. As the presidential election approaches, everything is still in a disturbing state of flux. Multiple states have failed to flatten the COVID-19 curve, necessitating some walking back of earlier "everything's fine" pronouncements.
The safest way to vote may be from the comfort of your own home. But that option doesn't appeal to President Trump, his campaign, or the Republican National Committee. All have engaged in a lot of unhelpful -- if not actually deadly -- rhetoric against both at-home voting and the general use of any protective measures to prevent the spread of the virus.
It's not like "distance voting" is a novelty. Absentee voting happens all the time. Just because there will be more quasi-absentee votes to count during this election is no reason to believe voters at home will engage in widespread voter fraud. Voter fraud is almost nonexistent. Enough checks are in place to prevent most of it and there's very little evidence anyone has ever engaged in a massive conspiracy to rig a presidential election.
Since the Trump Campaign (and the president himself) don't have facts on their side, they've decided to lawyer up. Voter suppression has always been a thing, but these entities want it blessed by courts, if not actually codified.
President Donald Trump’s campaign and the Republican Party are devoting millions of dollars to wage a state-by-state legal battle against mail-in voting during the coronavirus pandemic, not only suing state officials but also intervening in cases where they aren’t a party to limit how Americans can vote from home.
BuzzFeed News identified at least 11 cases where the Trump campaign has asked judges for permission to intervene to defend state and local policies that voting rights advocates argue will make it harder for people to safely vote during the pandemic. That’s in addition to more than half a dozen lawsuits the campaign has filed with the Republican National Committee contesting efforts by Democratic governors and other state and local officials to expand mail-in voting.
Here are a few of the things Trump's campaign and the RNC are suing about. In one case, his campaign is trying to limit the number of ballot drop boxes available to voters. In another, they're trying to prevent the automatic mailing of ballots or ballot request forms to voters. And these entities aren't limiting themselves to trying to intercede in election-related lawsuits where they aren't a party. They're also suing states directly to prevent expansions of absentee or mail-in voting.
Whatever the reasons Trump's lawyers state in their court filings, the real reason behind this flurry of litigation is the Trump campaign believes more votes means more votes for Joe Biden.
Early data compiled by the United States Elections Project at the University of Florida show that in Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Colorado, absentee ballot requests are up compared to previous election cycles, with registered Democrats outnumbering registered Republicans.
So, when Trump says something like this…
“My biggest risk is that we don’t win lawsuits,” Trump said at the time. “We have many lawsuits going all over. And if we don’t win those lawsuits, I think— I think it puts the election at risk.”
… he doesn't mean the election is at risk. He means his continued federal employment is at risk.
No one wants a fraudulent election. But that's the least likely outcome of expanded at-home voting. It does no good to argue we shouldn't do it this way because it's never been done this way before. A global pandemic has changed the definition of social interactions, possibly for years to come. Fighting in court to force people to choose between their health and their vote doesn't make election results more authentic. It just makes sure a large number of people won't have their voices heard.
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Filed Under: donald trump, election, mail in ballots, voter fraud, voter suppression
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And that rhetoric is working perfectly with his cult. Check the comments on any pro-Trump YouTube video about the election and all you'll find are posts from people saying that the democrats are trying to "steal" the election, that they want to "rig" it because they're so corrupt, etc.
His base has quite literally turned into a delusional cult that will believe anything he says. If he told them that sticking their finger in a light socket would guarantee his re-election, they'd be electrocuting themselves by the thousands.
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"No one wants a fraudulent election"
Maybe not, but it sure seems like certain parties really, absolutely don't want a fair one.
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Well, almost no-one
No one wants a fraudulent election.
Given the article that statement is not just kinda wrong it's demonstrably false, as Trump's GOP very clearly want exactly that and are doing everything they can to ensure it.
Still, I can't help but laugh at the own-goal that is the vehement opposition to more people voting, as it's nothing less than Trump and the GOP admitting outright(though they'd never be honest enough to own it) that true or not they believe that the only way they can win is to cheat, and that if given the choice most people wouldn't vote for them.
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For anyone who might want to claim that a widespread conspiracy to “steal” the 2020 election via altering or forging mail-in ballots exists:
How many people are in this conspiracy?
Is that enough people to carry out the plan?
What infrastructure and resources does they need?
How much time and money will that take, and where will this money come from?
If there are several thousand conspirators, how are they organized?
Where do they hold their secret conferences?
How do they keep track of membership?
If they are organised through known channels or entities, how do they keep non-members who work there from uncovering the conspiracy?
If there are thousands of conspirators, why haven’t any of them leaked the story, even if only by accident?
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Yeah, pretty much. Why else do you think they gerrymander voting districts and try to put Voter ID laws in place? Because it sure as shit isn’t to make voting easier and the results more fair.
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Re:
At this point it really is a cult, with the Holy Prophet and his disciples who are never wrong, no matter what, the idea that anything said by The Holy Prophet is to be believed without question and anything that might appear to contradict it treated as nothing less than blasphemy to be thrown aside and ignored, and any opposition treated as heretics most foul, from whom all evils and misfortune spring.
By this point Trump's GOP is less political party and more religious cult, which is probably why the fundamentalists love him so much.
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That's your takeaway from this?
Because mine is that some people very definitely do want a fraudulent election, and one of them is the President of the United States.
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Nah, the fundamentalists love Trump because he’s a useful idiot who will install conservative federal judges without thinking twice since he wants to keep his voting base happy so they’ll elect him again. That he is essentially a cult leader at this point is a happy accident for them.
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Follow the money
I read this morning that Biden was ahead in the campaign finance arena. Whether these lawsuits are the reason or not is mere speculation. But we all know that lawyers aren't cheap, and then multiply them by the total number of cases being pursued, that's a big wow.
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Re:
Want the truth of it.
ITs already setup and been that way for years.
In the past, everything was based on PAPER and allot of room to store it. The SS# was given when you had your first jobs, 14-16.
Consider the above.
Then understand. That taking a Deceased childs name, from a Cemetery that was Around your birth date, was that hard. There were few records, and most states had problems Cross referencing most of it.
Then as people age, they might change locations, and 1 Joe B, was the same as another Joe B, when it was reported Across the country. How to verify? How to verify a childs Death from 20-50 years past?
This was an old trick to change your name and erase your past.
But what else could you do with this? Collect as many as you can, nad make invisible people. Give them alittle history, or NOT, as less then 1/2 of the people in the USA have jobs. Only 1/4 to 1/3 have jobs. The rest are family and May not need to have Much ID.
Marriage cert. and divorce cert and most Paperwork didnt have locations for a Social sec number.
Think of all this. And how many locations you can have 1 person, Named: Joe B; from Indiana. Born in 1979.
May have a SS#, and probably does. But how many States Cross reference Names/address/birth dates/locations and FACIAL ID? All of which, as computers have pushed ahead, SLOWLY become compiled. DMV/DOT has only recently stated Keeping Pictures of everyone. They used to throw them away after a few years.(to much paper work, no way to Compare in a police car, no way to compare by any other Gov. service)
Now days they give you a SS# at birth. NOW days a collection of facial ID can be stores on 1 Hard drive/flash card. But all of this has to be compiled. and the MORE Bureaucracy we add to it, the MORE BS we have to untangle.
The comment I love the most is about MEXICANS voting. (everyone South of the border are mexicans, LOL). And a group coming into the USA would have little to do with a voting system, and couldnt get enough people to do much, IF they had to register. They Dont want to be IDENTIFIED.
So, yes it COULD BE DONE.
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Re:
No, I don't think so.
Some of them may rationalize it that way, but most of them are in the cult. It's not that they tolerate the horrible things he says because the ends justify the means; they love the horrible things he says. The cruelty is the point.
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Re:
That Trump takes a few orders from McConnell in exchange for having the party betray everything it once stood for does not change that he has a brainless cult base of voters. It's a Faustian deal. The Republicans sold their soul in return for being the choice of idiots.
Because the one thing the U.S. will never have a shortage of is idiots.
Trump will keep his deal with McConnell, and that involves immediate complaisance when he gets called upon. And the judge nomination thing certainly is a central part of the deal.
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Re:
If necessary, they'll take a fraudulent one. If Trump is ahead in election night, vote counting will get cut short before the numbers get less convenient, just like the census is cut short in order to avoid reassigning electoral seats and districts according to the rules of the Constitution.
There is some precedent with Bush/Gore, and they'll load the Supreme Court in order to make sure it sticks.
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Re: Follow the money
But it's money well-spent; it's the best investment the campaign could make. Trump's best chance, and his party's, at keeping power is through voter suppression.
Even the chance of winning one of these cases is worth the cost of trying.
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Re: Re:
Do you mean compliance?
It's also, not for nothin', that this is something Trump can do that his base loves and that takes no energy whatsoever on his part. When he appoints somebody, it's either a crony, somebody who said something nice about him on TV, or somebody who somebody else told him to appoint (McConnell, the Federalist Society, whoever). Kavanaugh purportedly wasn't McConnell's first choice, but the important thing is he'll vote McConnell's way most of the time.
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Who wants to change the voting rules less than a year before the election?
Oh, that's right... democRATS.
You pukes are delusional if you think the people who don't want the rules changed are the ones trying to steal an election... But then again, you are the same people who supported a soft coup, and think the political party that wants a smaller, less centralized federal government is some how "fascist."
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Re: Re: Follow the money
That spending a single dollar for ensuring voting access is even necessary for a political party in a purportedly democratic system is witness to the U.S. having a broken system and corrupt and/or incapable government.
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Re:
You obviously have not been paying attention to what is actually happening, and have only been listening to empty promises. All agencies and law that protected to people, and cost business are being overturned. The economy, at the level of business profits are, more important laws and regulations to keep poisons out of the air water and soil and the bodies of the workers.
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Re: Kool-Aid
What flavor have you been injecting?
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Re:
koanzap?
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Re: Re: Re:
Do you mean compliance?
Pretty sure they did. Complaisance is French for complacency.
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Re:
lol, change what rules?
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Re: Re: Kool-Aid
Oh come on, nobody injects Kool-aid. Not when Lysol is available, anyway.
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Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Country To
You miss the point, by not listening to President Trump's statements and simply making assumptions. Trump is not against mail-in voting. He's against mass mailings of ballots which are not addressed to a registered voter.
Any registered voter can get an absentee ballot. Some states are mass mailing to registered voters. The problem is most states don't do a good job of maintaining their registration rolls.
The ACLU and other organizations have complained that registering to vote is too difficult. They want a voter to be able to go to any polling place with no identification and cast a ballot. How do we know that they are entitled to vote?
Trump is asking for a secure system with accurate identification.
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Nevada judge tosses Trump campaign lawsuit over mail-in ballots
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All the lies you just told are already addressed in the article. Maybe you should have read past the headline.
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Re:
we also have proof.
When Mr. Pai, asked for comments and recieved 90% fake ones.
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Re: Re: Re: Follow the money
One of many.
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Re:
Read Shel's other comments on this site. That seems to be his specialty. Jumping in to defend dumb talking points without actually responding to the issues laid out in the article.
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Re: Re:
Obviously this entire vote by mail scam democRATS will use to try and steal an election.
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At a national scale? No, it could not. Whoever would lead such an effort would need to coördinate hundreds (maybe even thousands) of operatives in all the “blue” and “purple” states — poll workers, ballot counters, local and state lawmakers/judges, and possibly even federal lawmakers/judges — to move towards a specific outcome. Those operatives would have to alter paper ballots in a way that makes them look credible after the fact, hack electronic voting booths in a way that leaves no trace, change enough votes to favor the candidate this effort means to help, ignore thousands of voters who may end up complaining that their vote doesn’t match their ballot, and prevent against any and all investigations into potential election fraud by state or federal officials — and this would have to happen across every “blue” or “purple” state in the country.
One state? Yeah, it could probably happen in one state. (Hell, I wouldn’t put it past Florida leadership to give it the ol’ electoral college try.) Two states? That’s an outside possibility, but still at least slightly plausible if you assume each state’s fraudsters act independently of each other. But a nationally coördinated attempt to commit widescale voter/election fraud in well over a dozen states? You’re out of your mind (moreso than usual!) if you think that could ever happen without anyone ever finding out.
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Safe
If by "safe" voting you mean fraudulent mail in ballots? You are a truly deluded soul.
Trump is completely correct in fighting the rampant voter fraud inherent in indiscriminate mail in ballots. Thousands of stories are surfacing of multiple ballots arriving at people's houses, some addressed to people who are dead or the same person under several different name variations or even the house cat. In 2016 there were 100s of videos of female poll workers dumping hundreds of ballots into the voting tabulators after the polls had closed.
Several elections have been disqualified due to mail in ballot fraud.
Why would any sane person support ballot harvesting and mail-in ballots?
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Voting by mail (which includes “absentee” voting) has been a standard in numerous states for years now. That includes — wait for it! — “red” states where conservatives have a practical lock on local and state governments. None of those states has ever reported any kind of widescale fraud associated with vote-by-mail programs. Your thinking that a move to expand mail-in voting in all states (including “red” states) is a “scam” and not an effort to keep COVID-19 from spreading via long lines at in-person voting locations says a lot about you. Ain’t none of it any good, champ.
Although now I’m curious about your answer to this question: How many American voters should die for democracy?
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By all means, show us the evidence that proves mail-in voting is fraught with widescale fraud/tampering. A few small instances here and there won’t do the trick; your proof must show that it happens at a large enough scale to potentially tip the scales of an election. For bonus points, prove it happens in “red” states.
I’ll wait.
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Trump doesn’t give a good god’s damn whether the system is secure. He cares only about setting himself up for either victory or a protracted legal battle to prevent his defeat from being legally recognized. If he truly believed mail-in voting is evil, he wouldn’t do it himself¹. But he doesn’t believe it’s evil — he believes contesting any results of mail-in ballots will either help him win a second term or at least contest his loss to Biden in a way that will spur his supporters into doing God-knows-what to God-knows-who.
¹ — “Absentee” voting is still mail-in voting; the distinction has no difference, except to idiots who think there is one (e.g., Trump).
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Re:
A few small instances here and there won’t do the trick
Especially when the ones that immediately spring to mind were attempted voter fraud by republicans...
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Re: Re:
So, yes it COULD BE DONE.
And yet, when Trump designated Kris Kobach and his band of merry morons to investigate exactly that, they found exactly nothing.
A monkey could theoretically fly out of my ass with relatively the same odds as widespread voter fraud.
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Re:
and think the political party that wants a smaller, less centralized federal government is some how "fascist."
Small enough to fit in a woman's uterus, amirite?
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Re: Re: Re:
Well, Trump can always ask the Russians to help again.
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Re: Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Country
You miss the point, by not listening to President Trump's statements and simply making assumptions.
For someone who "has the best words," he sure needs a lot of you chimps to explain what he really meant versus what he really said.
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Re: Safe
In 2016 there were 100s of videos of female poll workers dumping hundreds of ballots into the voting tabulators after the polls had closed.
You know, Trump should've appointed someone.
Maybe a Republican in Kansas who he could trust. Perhaps Kris Kobach, for example.
They could form a voter fraud commission, investigate all of this fuckery, and compile a report outlining that.
If only he had the foresight to do exactly that, you could reference that report, and say specifically what it said.
Alas, the President is something of a useless bumblefuck.
Since he did exactly that.
And they found exactly nothing.
But you keep on being you.
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Yeah, it’s amazing how the political party that…
actively tries to stop groups of people who tend to vote Democrat from voting
*talks about “law and order” and fearmongers about violent anarchist antifa Marxist communist traitors but says nothing about the violent sons of bitches from the right-wing side of things
full-throatedly supports the police by ignoring the actual recorded history of brutality and the racist underpinnings of the entire system of policing
full-throatedly supports the military and denies that soldiers could have ever committed war crimes
aligns itself with Christian evangelicals who want nothing more than to enact their doctrine as the law
cedes more power to the president every time one of “their guys” holds the office and refuses to hold the president accountable for abuses of that power if he happens to be one of “their guys”
has long fought against civil rights for queer people with no rational secular reason as to why queer people shouldn’t have the same civil rights as everyone else
decries anti-discrimination protections, including the now-gutted Voting Rights Act
rejects science and outside expertise in favor of people who will tell comforting lies that conform to a specific belief system
actively aligns itself with, or at least actively refuses to denounce, bigots and bigotry of all kinds
did not immediately condemn the concentration camps full of refugees on the southern border or the family separation policy within those camps
has not decried the president’s various decrees about defunding “blue” cities and basically refusing to govern the people who didn’t vote for him as he would the people who did
…could ever be considered “fascist”~. I don’t know how anyone could have gotten that idea~.
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There has been and continues to exist lots of attempts at voter fraud over the past few decades, almost entirely by Republicans. But it's good to see them doing everything they can to try to ensure that no one outside of likewise corrupt Republicans will ever vote for them again. We should all send them "Thank You" cards this November.
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Re:
Well, you have to understand that in Trump's mind, and the minds of his cult members, any election that Trump loses couldn't possibly be fair. Because they think he is such a brilliant leader, beloved by an overwhelming majority of the country, that the only possible way he could lose is if the democrats cheat.
That may sound like over the top satire to you, but that is what they actually believe.
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Re:
This is how a Trump cult member would answer;
Every democrat, liberal and antifa.
Absolutely. They're just going to print fake ballots by the thousands.
They have it all in place. All the postal workers are members of the deep state and will help them fake the ballots.
It's all being supplied by the deep state and George Soros.
It's all organized by the deep state and the world-wide cabal of child sex trafficking, Satan worshiping, cannibals.
On private islands and in the basements of pizza shops.
All democrats are automatically part of the conspiracy. They're all part of the deep state.
Lots of people know about the conspiracy.
They have, his name is "Q".
Trump says there's a deep state conspiracy and that's good enough for me! It all makes perfect sense! Research it yourself in Google!
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Re:
You're right... The only agency capable of widescale voter/election fraud is the President and his black budgets and secret communication channels...
Only the sitting government has the resources, infrastructure, and motivation to successfully steal an election... and if Trump wins this time, you can be sure that's what happened...
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Re: Re:
He has billions in slush funds (covid research 'awards' to cronies, etc) from the current pandemic, and he's motivated to use them
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Re: Follow the money
you misunderstand, Trump isn't using campaign money to fund the lawsuits, the federal government (meaning we the people) are footing the bill for Trump to try and set himself up as a Dictator.
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Meanwhile in BC, Canada a snap election has just been called. They've already got the 'request a mail-in ballot' up and running in anticipation of a lot of people choosing it. Identity verification required and no questions about why people want to vote by mail.
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That would still require a massive undertaking from numerous government agencies and possibly thousands of people across at least a dozen states (likely more) to rig a national election. Considering how studies into voter/election fraud have only ever found that such fraud is rare, and considering how the Trump administration has failed to stop leaks and whistleblowers, the odds of the current sitting administration of the federal government rigging a presidential election and getting away with it are…well, let’s say a revival of Cop Rock has a better chance of happening and leave it at that.
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…I hate that this could be a serious answer from a Trump supporter.
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Re: Re:
Given how often accusations by republicans turn out to be projections of their own actions on others the fact that he's constantly going on and on about election fraud on top of his various attempts to sabotage the election would seem to add weight to the idea that if he wins it will have been due to fraud of one form or another.
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Re: Re:
One major fault here: most states do cross-check the address you have to give on your voter-registration form. They have to do that to determine what precinct you reside in. And what database do they usually use to validate addresses? The same database used by merchants and shipping companies to normalize and validate addresses for shipping. So, your fake person has to use a real, valid street address. It needs to be a residential address too, because one of the things those databases return is whether it's a residential or commercial address (different shipping rates to each) and voters aren't supposed to reside at a commercial address. It's not going to take too many fake people to generate a suspiciously high number of collisions with addresses of real registered voters. That leads to checking the SSN against the tax databases which have nationwide coverage to pick up on tax and wage fraud, and the whole scheme comes unraveled.
That and any project manager can tell you that your chances of keeping even a couple of dozen people in a single office on-task and following the plan for a confidential project without blabbing for even a month are pretty much nil. Tens of thousands of people across the entire country over the course of years... winning the lottery's a sure thing by comparison.
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Re:
Except for that whole absentee-voting thing, apparently.
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How difficult is vote fraud?
The technique for absentee ballots is detailed here:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/
Con fessions of a voter fraud: I was a master at fixing mail-in ballots
How about online voting? Ars Technica covered that:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/why-experts-are-overwhelmingly-skeptical-of-online -voting/
Why experts are overwhelmingly skeptical of online voting
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Different suit, but related issue: NY-17 Candidate, Co-Plaintiffs Win Suit Against USPS, President Trump
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Re:
No it isn't. Because they're also doing everything they can to try to ensure that no one outside of likewise corrupt Republicans will ever vote again.
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Re: How difficult is vote fraud?
Con fessions of a voter fraud: I was a master at fixing mail-in ballots
Lol, an anonymous person who details, at best, how to nudge voting in one small city? That's... uh... not how you would do voter fraud to impact a Presidential election.
How about online voting? Ars Technica covered that:
No one's doing online voting, so why even bring that in? We agree that online voting is not secure, and would be screaming about it if anyone were seriously doing it. But they're not. They're doing mail-in ballots and other forms that have a long history of being proven resistant to fraud -- especially at a larger scale.
There are a few examples of small scale fraud, but the idea that there's massive fraud is a total myth supported by no evidence, and certainly not your links.
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Re:
For some it seems it's okay as long as those dying isn't republicans, hence the push for stifling voting by mail.
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Re: Re:
"By this point Trump's GOP is less political party and more religious cult, which is probably why the fundamentalists love him so much."
Not even a religious one. Sure, the evangelicals are in on it but the main concern is a purely secular one - that most of his hardened following has one very specific goal in mind; That of hurting liberals, leftists, minorities, LGBTQ, etc.
They do not care if everything he says is a lie, if what he does harms the nation or even they themselves. They just want the people they hate hurt, and hurt badly.
Because fuck liberals. At any price. That's all they're after.
And THAT is why they are immune to facts, debate, arguments and logic. They don't care about any of it. As long as the end goal is fuck liberals it's all good to them. That's why every republican online ends up a raging troll and why so many of those trolls giggle it up because dumbass democrats apparently still think this is all about logic and the interests of the wider community. Fuck liberals. That's the message. Nothing else matters.
It's not a cult motivated by religion, not even the nominally religious parts of it who only lip service scripture for effect by now. It's all about his following defining themselves primarily by what and who they hate.
This isn't just a rift or disagreement. It's not about a line to be drawn in compromise. It won't go away or de-escalate until the US manages to purge itself in some form or other.
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Re: Re: Re:
"A monkey could theoretically fly out of my ass with relatively the same odds as widespread voter fraud."
Every accusation, a confession, remember?
Pot odds are good there will be widespread attempts at fraud and I hope for your sake the same odds do NOT apply to you spontaneously expelling monkeys from your rear. If you think they do you'll want to book a good proctologist and a zookeeper trained in handling angry and confused simians well before the election.
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Re:
"Voting by mail (which includes “absentee” voting) has been a standard in numerous states for years now."
And is something the US has successfully handled in the past and which is - in every democracy in the western hemisphere - a routine procedure with few or no complications.
If anything republicans say about mail-in voting is correct then that's just one more area where the US just can't accomplish what every other nation in the world is casually proficient at.
Truly, it's the republican defense about anything these days. The US can't do what everyone else can.
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Re: Re:
"That seems to be his specialty. Jumping in to defend dumb talking points without actually responding to the issues laid out in the article."
That's not fair. Some of Shel10's prior comments aren't defending anything at all, except the idea that Obama is responsible for every malfeasance in recorded history.
The "But Obama!" pitched in sideways as response to any criticism of current incumbents is a dead giveaway that the commenter in question will exculpate any wrongdoing as long as it isn't related to the - to some particular people - obvious crime of Being Brown.
That said it's become obvious to at least a few of the Stormfront trolls that airing their continued PTSD over a Black Man having become president of the US gives the game away. Their projection has become a little more subtle and is now only as blunt as a 2x4 with nails in it.
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Re: Safe
"If by "safe" voting you mean fraudulent mail in ballots?"
Tell me again why mail-in voting which every other nation is able to carry out without fraud is something so impossible for the US to do?
The preponderance of the evidence suggests your Dear Leader is flat-out lying - particularly so since the US was apparently able to handle mail-in voting just fine a century ago.
When did the US, of all countries, becomes a nation of absurd ineptitude shrieking "No we Can't" at everything everyone else appears capable of pulling off in a casual manner?
"Several elections have been disqualified due to mail in ballot fraud. "
In third world nations and failed states under tinpot dictatorships, yes. Never in a halfway healthy nation. Are you telling us that the US today is no better than Argentina or Sudan?
Oh wait, your comment record speaks for itself. Not only are you apparently worse off than most third world hellholes, it's all, according to you, because there was a Black Man who became president.
You realize, I hope, that the only thing you accomplish here is to highlight all the ways in which you are factually and morally wrong, right?
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Reminder: The GOP is the “No We Can’t” party.
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And even if it were, the operation would encompass thousands of people across multiple states — including agents in local, state, and federal agencies across the country. It’s one thing to nudge an election in a small city using a few people in on the scam. It’s an entirely different matter to coördinate an entire national operation of vote fixing without any information leaking out, any whistleblowers coming forward, and any suspicions of voter/election fraud going uninvestigated at any level of government.
The odds of a presidential election ever being decided by rigged/fraudulent votes are so low that I’d probably have a better chance of being struck by lightning and winning the lottery simultaneously.
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Re: Re:
Doesn't sound at all over the top. Heard a similar argument from a (reformed) Marxist, who had condoned voter fraud in his activist days because "That's the way they would vote if they really knew the truth".
Of course, truth is such a flexible commodity.
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Re:
I was reading something about conspiracy theories recently, but I can't remember where. It was a formula that calculated how long an event (or non-event) could stay hidden, based on the number of people in-the-know and other factors. For example, if the moon landing truly were faked, it would have gotten out in 3.8 years. Mostly because someone involved either can't keep their mouth shut or intentionally outs said event (ie: Snowden).
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Re:
Is that Blue? I thought he would be in a mental institution by now.
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Re: Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Country
Wow, both flagged AND an LOL. How often does that happen.
LOL
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Re: Re: Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Cou
Kayleigh McEnany is the queen chimp!
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Re:
Considering this administration's flaughting of the law and legal judgements against them, they will either slow walk it or just ignore it entirely.
The truly sad part of all of this is that the US political and legal systems aren't designed to deal with a so thoroughly corrupt president like Trump, and his entire party of enablers.
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Quoting the RationalWiki page on conspiracy theories (from which that list of questions was adapted):
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The systems were never designed to prevent the corruption that an entire political party has engaged in over the past…uh…shit, how long has the Southern Strategy been a thing, again?
Consider that the Democrat candidate has won the popular vote in six of the last seven presidential elections, but has only taken the oath of office four times. The Electoral College — with the help of gerrymandering, voter suppression tactics, and the generalized corruption inherent in any political party — has practically given Republicans a long-term “minority rule” situation over the past two to three decades. The American government was never designed to prevent such an outcome. We will be suffering from this lack of foresight for decades to come, regardless of who wins the election. (Trump will get his third SCOTUS justice; whether he gets it before the election is largely irrelevant, save for any potential challenges to the results of the election.)
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Wasted effort
Instead of all this bollocking around, destroying the USPS, purging voter rolls of black and brown people, redistricting, endlessly moaning and whining and blathering about mail-in voting, why not, I don't know, come up with a platform that people might actually vote for?
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Re: Wasted effort
But that would mean giving up their racism, xenophobia, homophobia etc.
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They do have a platform that people vote for. Problem is, it’s a platform that is tailored to a narrow set of demographics: White people and conservative Christian evangelicals (which overlap quite a bit in certain parts of the country). As the platform becomes more unpopular, so does the number of White people willing to vote for it out of a “fuck you, got mine” mentality — either by choice or by “aging out”. And with the country slowly becoming less religious over time, the number of evangelicals voting for the platform will shrink as well.
The GOP knows it can’t keep up this game forever. They can’t rail against the evils of their old Repugnant Cultural Others (e.g., Black people, Latine people, gay people, non-Christians) as easily as they could even just two decades ago, so the fear-based politics of the right will become far less effective over time. Their policies can’t be called “popular”, either, because they rarely have a policy position that is rooted in helping the American public at large — and that’s assuming they even a policy to present. (Look at the healthcare debacle, for example.) Republican leaders know their party has reached a point where society at large is unaccepting of what they’re doing. All they can do is stave off the inevitable end of the party by keeping power by any means necessary.
Why else do you think they’re either kissing Trump’s ass or refusing to kick his ass? Because it sure as hell ain’t “he’s a great leader with a few ‘rough edges’ ”.
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Re: Wasted effort
Because they did that with Parler and hated that "Democrats" could log on there and troll them in the same way they trolled others on Facebook.
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Re: Re:
Nah. Honestly I thought blue would have drunk bleach to cure his COVID by now.
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Re: Follow the money
WHY is a political party spending money to Stop anything.
That isnt what a political party is for. Its to show/demonstrate its OPINION.
NOT pay off officials to do something they DONT want to do.
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Re:
Stephen.
Creating a Small agency, thats never listed, that wonders the USA and gathers this info, wouldnt be hard.
Also consider this could start over 50 years ago.
You would only need a few 100 thousand, to be registered, even with the same names, and That states ID.
There is/was no system to Verify ID and compare Any of the City wide, state wide, or federally.
All you would need is Hospital records or a Doctors records to find the Basic Birth data. AND some of that was in news papers, and IN the Cemetery, on the head stones.
As I mentioned, comparing all this data, Is/was/hasnt been done. And having a Bill Blank, from Where ever, in 16 different counties, Would not be a problem. Even with no Work history that Social sec has, or even Credit card corps. He can still vote.
The Easy way would be to have Mail in votes. And if those are not allowed, Just a person with ID, to walk in, show a ID and sign a name. real or fake ID isnt hard.
The election boards, Do not have Access to the DMV/DOT to Check anything, let alone a Scanner to TEST the ID.
Even if you create a system to give out Special cards/ID to vote, you would need a way to verify it. And it hasnt been done.
Consider the requirements of verifying every person the The USA. really. Facial ID, a current picture(s), signature and the Social security numbers.
When have we ever been able to get all of that together? NEVER. The Nations Internal Gov. systems are so old and backward, they could still be IBM 486 or even celerons.
Our gov. hasnt put into place any way to keep the Systems advanced enough to even do Taxes, or even HELP the pentagon with its paper work.
The best thing they have is Laptops and cellphones, and they end up GONE yearly.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/21/at-least-1000-government-laptops-and-flash- drives-reported-missing-since-2015
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/security-breach-lost-l aptop/
The list is huge, of these reports.
And with recent and past Data breaches, it makes things Allot worse.
https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/odds-someone-else-has-your-ssn-one-7-6C10406347
In other words, how many people in the U.S. are essentially sharing their identities with someone else?
The answer: 40 million. That means nearly one in 7 SSN holders in the U.S. have two or more names attached to their SSN records.
If you wish to know how I know this, it was created along time ago, in a book, Anarchists Cook book. It was known before that this is the BIG hole in the system created. PAPER WORK. There is/was no real way to verify anything in this system.
You only need a few dedicated people to get it done, and pay off IDIOTS to walk in and show the ID and vote.
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Re:
you have such a group.
Republicans that dont question anything.
And we know they already pay off our state gov.
They Back their Own people into place in every state.
And to take over an election, what do you need to win?
13 states, is a win. And if you dont get those Certain states, you need 2 of the other farming states to match that 1 lost State.
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Re: Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Country
Vote-by-mail (absentee) voting ballots can only be sent to registered voters with a valid address to receive their ballots. How else do you think they will receive the ballots that are mailed to them? Anyone not registered to vote does not have signature on record for their votes to be validated against. No valid signature on ballot envelope at counting, ballot is rejected.
This is verifiably not true. Some states like Texas have strict restrictions on who can vote by mail.
To be eligible to vote early by mail in Texas, you must:
be 65 years or older;
be sick or disabled;
be out of the county on election day and during the period for early voting by personal appearance; or
be confined in jail, but otherwise eligible.
Or be in the military, or a past/present Texas resident permanently/temporarily overseas.
Oregon state automatically registers you to vote when you apply for a driver's license/ID card at the DMV. Otherwise, you can receive a Voter Registration Card mailed to your address when you register to vote, is that not an ID? With mail-in/absentee voting there is no poll place to present your ID. Donald's absentee vote in Florida was not checked against his ID, should it be invalid?
Oregon has successfully run all elections Vote By Mail (VBM) only (no polling places) since May 2000. Oregon has used VBM for local elections since 1987. Republicans still win elections in Oregon. No dangling-chad voting debacle. No voting machine issues. No voter intimidation at polls. No being sent to the wrong voting precinct and turned away (happened to Donald three times in a row in Florida before he gave up and voted absentee).
Oregon has consistently [https://multco.us/elections/historical-turnout-and-registration-statistics](high voter turnout) as a result:
Oregon 2012 General Election turnout: 82%
Oregon 2014 General Election turnout: 69%
Oregon 2016 General Election turnout: 80%
Oregon 2018 General Election turnout: 72%
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Re: Re: Re:
TK,
Umm,
Those residential lists were never updated or even used in the past.
Only recently have I ever input an improper address, and it tell me it could not FIND that address. thats in the last 10 years, have I seen that ability.
And even at that, years ago, they did do a Scan of addresses, and found 17 voter addresses to the same location, and Went there, and there wasnt a house.
But that is 1 City, in 1 county, in 1 state.
We have better abilities NOW to do the verifications, but WHAT to verify, if you found a house at that spot? 17 people living in 1 house? Ok, not a problem. Lets goto a College town and a few Group houses. how may in each?
Go have fun with google maps and all the mistakes on it, created by city maps and Proposed changes.. HOw many times have people made a left turn and found...Nothing? A Lake? a dead end? Construction into a new sector being developed?
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Re: Safe
You obviously do not know enough about how elections are carried out to avoid being taken in by conspiracy theories. Indeed id you applied simple reasoning, you would realize that there is a time delay between the polls closing, and the ballot boxes being transported to where they votes can be counted, and for remote polling stations, that delay can be many hours.
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Re: Follow the money
Follow the money?
The Corps hold all the money.
The corps pay to the Agencies that funnel the money to the SIDE they wish to influence.
The republicans are Pro corp. Have been for over 50 years.
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Re:
I've seen pretty much every one of these posted in the comments of pro-Trump videos.
The part about there being a world-wide cabal of child sex trafficking, Satan worshiping, cannibals is what Qanon followers actually believe.
And all the rest can be blamed on the "deep state". Seriously, pretty much anything anyone does against Trump is attributed to the deep state.
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You’re out of your fucking mind even moreso than usual, holy shit.
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Re:
That link is still wonderful, Stephen - even if the facts themselves are fucking horrifying.
It's why I keep bringing it up - that one of the highest-valued standards in the US hardline community was once "Can Do!".
And now instead it's "No we can't! We can't do anything! Everything is too hard for us! This would never work!" while the rest of the world which can do all that - in oh so many areas - easily, casually, and without a fuss and it obviously does work...is looking on in shocked disbelief as hundreds of professional politicians tasked to represent their citizenry sit down én másse and flail around like a herd of pre-schoolers throwing tantrums because tying their shoelaces is too hard.
Make America Great Again? At what, being the biggest entitled whiner on the block? Emulating the rise and fall of Rome in less than a tenth of the time? Being the only G20 member to become officially classified as part of the third world?
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Re: Re:
Definitely looks like blue. All the tells of projection added to "alternative facts" he must have fished out of his crack pipe.
Then again so many of the alt-right trolls look and read exactly like blue it's a toss-up whether they're all sock puppets in the hands of our old unoriginal Baghdad Bob, an army of trained weasels clones right out of Bobmail's foreskin, or a breitbart crowd proving to everyone their hopes and dreams are so collectivist you really can't tell them apart anymore.
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Re: Re: Trump's Campaign Is Engaged In Lawsuits All Over The Cou
"Wow, both flagged AND an LOL. How often does that happen."
It's not that rare when some alt-right troll such as Baghdad Bob actually tries to deliver an argument backing his ad hom and manages to shoot himself in the crotch with it.
It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.
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Re:
Huh? Your math's not right. The Democratic candidate has only won the popular vote in five of the last seven presidential elections. Bush lost the popular vote in '00 but won it in '04.
(And don't use "Democrat" as an adjective.)
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A win for the Trump Administration:
Explainer: Why 'naked ballots' loom over U.S. presidential election
Significantly, this is in Pennsylvania, which FiveThirtyEight's forecast says is the likeliest state to tip the election.
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