Eh, it's significant when giving an address in an area known to be populated by people of colour and it's definitely significant if you're black and the cop is white.
Do you talk to people of colour, Mason? Are you friends enough with them that they eat at your table and tell you what they go through every day?
We have racism here in the UK and it is ugly. What we've found is that, even after outright banning it and putting people in jail for making racist comments online, it persists.
On your side of the Pond, it might not be on the same overt level as it was before but the attitudes persist. Not having lynchings advertised on radio as some kind of festival event any more? Great. Not using fire hoses and dogs against human rights protesters? Okay, carry on. End of Jim Crow laws? I'm glad for y'all. But racist attitudes persist and it's not okay. That they're not as loody and violent as before is an improvement but until the last nasty toerag who cheers on church burnings and mass shootings of black people in a flippin' church has shut the hell up with his nastiness, racism exists and it is not okay.
If you really think it's insignificant, try seeing how black candidates fare in the next election. The things they said about Michelle Obama...! Ugh!
Yep. That said, we "good" white people need to be willing to call out racism where and when we see it, and to be willing to stop buying or subscribing to media and other outlets that display racist or prejudicial attitudes, however subtly they do it.
If you're already doing that, great. Let's encourage others to do it till people like Ms. Wysinger recognise how small the minority of racists is. Since it's their everyday experience, there seems to be a lot of them. We've got work to do, folks.
Making Them Behave is always going to be a game of whac-a-mole, chaps.
I know, I've tried it, and every time I failed because They were unwilling to behave and very determined to do the opposite, to wit, behave very badly. When the mods of the community I used to belong to were too intimidated to do anything about this, I left.
Racism and/or prejudice can't be fixed as such; it's based on fragility as Ms. Wysinger correctly pointed out. Prejudiced persons feel challenged by the presence of the Other in areas they feel the most need to be competent in. Studies of atrocities and genocide reveal the same patterns: the Others are presented as sexually voracious, good at physical actions but not so good academically if they tend to be on the lower rungs of society. When they tend to be in the upper echelons they're greedy, controlling, and responsible for causing trouble for the nations they dwell in, or for certain segments of the populace. How the hell do you fix that when these are "common sense" notions peddled by the mass media outlets in subtle and not-so-subtle ways?
Therefore, as users of mass media we need to be more circumspect in our choices of media outlets and more willing to write in and challenge racist and prejudiced tropes when we see them. I've seen the people targeted for abuse by the right wing press here reading those papers because it's what they do; it doesn't occur to them not to. Imagine the change we'd see if we all mass boycotted The Sun and The Daily Mail. It's not gonna happen, is it? And they will continue to spew hate AND be more popular than the other outlets.
It is therefore everyone's responsibility to call out racist or prejudiced behaviours and attitudes where and when we see them, and to stand with and stand up for those people on the sharp end of the stick, whoever they are.
I'll add political correctness to that list because it causes more problems than it solves AND creates the impression that the people they're trying to protect are easily offended with a hair trigger temper. Not true. And none of these "fine people" ever seem to bother to consult the people they ostensibly want to help. I know because I asked. Let's be more willing to look out for each other as neighbours, not as saviours signalling our virtues, okay?
Yep. That people don't want to go to all the effort of campaigning and rallying support, etc., is the problem. This passivity has been known for some time as "Campaign fatigue" but I prefer to call it by its true name: "Abdication of social responsibilities."
When we care, we'll get on the phone, write emails, and get our friends to join in. We don't. If we do, we don't care enough or aren't willing to try to get friends on board again, but as I've been saying for years, pressure works. SOPA proves this. Make those critters fear for their jobs!
Re: Re: It's a logical reaction to just unnecessary vileness lik
Ah, Paul...! While right-wingery and conservatism often go hand-in-hand, neo-nazism is a bit too much for most of them.
The problem here is that neo-nazis have successfully cast themselves as conservatives when "Right wing nutjob" is a more appropriate description. I hate being lumped with these people so can you please describe them as nutjobs or something? Ta.
Re: Re: It's a logical reaction to just unnecessary vileness lik
This is Blue, Mike. He/she/it lies all the bloody time, fighting an imaginary Mike and loudly berating The Rich while slavering like a dog at their feet if their riches were earned by The Sacred Copyright (TM).
Well we can all see how that's worked out so far...! The troggies tend to find their way out from underground, is what I'm saying.
The rabid neo-nazis we are seeing now didn't just pop up out of nowhere, they were incubating their hatred underground for ages, wallowing in pariah status until they could get their views pushed front and centre into the mainstream. Your "solution" doesn't work in practice, AC. We need a plan that actually works.
The trouble with deplatforming nasty politicians is it pushes their attitudes underground. It doesn't change their attitude or culture, just the way they describe themselves and their attitudes.
So "rename file" takes over and incidents like the James Byrd killing and the indiscriminate slaughter of black people by the police continue because we've not dealt with the root cause: horrible attitudes that need to be challenged.
Deal with the attitudes and you will see change. Don't just pretend you've solved the problem by banning some Nazis from Twitter.
I'm a white Christian. Whether I conform to your idea of normal or not is up to you but I've never been targeted over the colour of my skin or for my faith positions -- I've been known to pick the odd fight with militant "ban religion!" types.
On the post: Why Congress Needs The Office Of Technology Assessment More Than Ever
Re:
I can see that.
On the post: Impossible Content Moderation Dilemmas: Talking About Racism Blocked As Hate Speech
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
*bloody
On the post: Impossible Content Moderation Dilemmas: Talking About Racism Blocked As Hate Speech
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Eh, it's significant when giving an address in an area known to be populated by people of colour and it's definitely significant if you're black and the cop is white.
Do you talk to people of colour, Mason? Are you friends enough with them that they eat at your table and tell you what they go through every day?
We have racism here in the UK and it is ugly. What we've found is that, even after outright banning it and putting people in jail for making racist comments online, it persists.
On your side of the Pond, it might not be on the same overt level as it was before but the attitudes persist. Not having lynchings advertised on radio as some kind of festival event any more? Great. Not using fire hoses and dogs against human rights protesters? Okay, carry on. End of Jim Crow laws? I'm glad for y'all. But racist attitudes persist and it's not okay. That they're not as loody and violent as before is an improvement but until the last nasty toerag who cheers on church burnings and mass shootings of black people in a flippin' church has shut the hell up with his nastiness, racism exists and it is not okay.
If you really think it's insignificant, try seeing how black candidates fare in the next election. The things they said about Michelle Obama...! Ugh!
On the post: Impossible Content Moderation Dilemmas: Talking About Racism Blocked As Hate Speech
Re: Re: Re:
"Women are so fragile and the mere presence of a man challenges every single thing in them."
LOL @ that. My managers are mostly male. If I harboured such attitudes I'd be needing psychiatric care!
On the post: Impossible Content Moderation Dilemmas: Talking About Racism Blocked As Hate Speech
Re: Re:
Yep. That said, we "good" white people need to be willing to call out racism where and when we see it, and to be willing to stop buying or subscribing to media and other outlets that display racist or prejudicial attitudes, however subtly they do it.
If you're already doing that, great. Let's encourage others to do it till people like Ms. Wysinger recognise how small the minority of racists is. Since it's their everyday experience, there seems to be a lot of them. We've got work to do, folks.
On the post: Impossible Content Moderation Dilemmas: Talking About Racism Blocked As Hate Speech
Re:
Making Them Behave is always going to be a game of whac-a-mole, chaps.
I know, I've tried it, and every time I failed because They were unwilling to behave and very determined to do the opposite, to wit, behave very badly. When the mods of the community I used to belong to were too intimidated to do anything about this, I left.
Racism and/or prejudice can't be fixed as such; it's based on fragility as Ms. Wysinger correctly pointed out. Prejudiced persons feel challenged by the presence of the Other in areas they feel the most need to be competent in. Studies of atrocities and genocide reveal the same patterns: the Others are presented as sexually voracious, good at physical actions but not so good academically if they tend to be on the lower rungs of society. When they tend to be in the upper echelons they're greedy, controlling, and responsible for causing trouble for the nations they dwell in, or for certain segments of the populace. How the hell do you fix that when these are "common sense" notions peddled by the mass media outlets in subtle and not-so-subtle ways?
Therefore, as users of mass media we need to be more circumspect in our choices of media outlets and more willing to write in and challenge racist and prejudiced tropes when we see them. I've seen the people targeted for abuse by the right wing press here reading those papers because it's what they do; it doesn't occur to them not to. Imagine the change we'd see if we all mass boycotted The Sun and The Daily Mail. It's not gonna happen, is it? And they will continue to spew hate AND be more popular than the other outlets.
It is therefore everyone's responsibility to call out racist or prejudiced behaviours and attitudes where and when we see them, and to stand with and stand up for those people on the sharp end of the stick, whoever they are.
I'll add political correctness to that list because it causes more problems than it solves AND creates the impression that the people they're trying to protect are easily offended with a hair trigger temper. Not true. And none of these "fine people" ever seem to bother to consult the people they ostensibly want to help. I know because I asked. Let's be more willing to look out for each other as neighbours, not as saviours signalling our virtues, okay?
On the post: Deputies Destroy House, Lives To Recover $50 Of Marijuana And A Single, Unbottled Pill
Re: Re: Re:
The destruction is in progress, it's just taking a little longer than expected.
Engage with your Congresscritters moar.
On the post: Deputies Destroy House, Lives To Recover $50 Of Marijuana And A Single, Unbottled Pill
Re: Re: Almost time to riot
Yep. That people don't want to go to all the effort of campaigning and rallying support, etc., is the problem. This passivity has been known for some time as "Campaign fatigue" but I prefer to call it by its true name: "Abdication of social responsibilities."
When we care, we'll get on the phone, write emails, and get our friends to join in. We don't. If we do, we don't care enough or aren't willing to try to get friends on board again, but as I've been saying for years, pressure works. SOPA proves this. Make those critters fear for their jobs!
On the post: Austrian Government Wants To Outlaw Online Anonymity
Re: Re: Re: Re: It's a logical reaction to just unnecessary vile
[Sad but True]
The mainstream conservative parties aren't kicking them out when they damn well should, which isn't helping.
On the post: Austrian Government Wants To Outlaw Online Anonymity
Re: misread Austria as Australia
I did too. Mind you, they're both in the grip of insurgent right-wingery so... why not?
On the post: Austrian Government Wants To Outlaw Online Anonymity
Re: Re: It's a logical reaction to just unnecessary vileness lik
Ah, Paul...! While right-wingery and conservatism often go hand-in-hand, neo-nazism is a bit too much for most of them.
The problem here is that neo-nazis have successfully cast themselves as conservatives when "Right wing nutjob" is a more appropriate description. I hate being lumped with these people so can you please describe them as nutjobs or something? Ta.
Agreed on every other point.
On the post: Austrian Government Wants To Outlaw Online Anonymity
Re: Re: "Fascism is the way of the left wing."
[Sad but True]
On the post: Austrian Government Wants To Outlaw Online Anonymity
Re: Re: It's a logical reaction to just unnecessary vileness lik
This is Blue, Mike. He/she/it lies all the bloody time, fighting an imaginary Mike and loudly berating The Rich while slavering like a dog at their feet if their riches were earned by The Sacred Copyright (TM).
On the post: Why Your Holiday Photos And Videos Of The Restored Notre Dame Cathedral Could Be Blocked By The EU's Upload Filters
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Confirmed correct. UK resident here.
On the post: Content Moderation At Scale Is Impossible: Some Republican Politicians Are Indistinguishable From Neo Nazis
Re: Re: Re: A great misunderstanding
Which they totally are.
On the post: Content Moderation At Scale Is Impossible: Some Republican Politicians Are Indistinguishable From Neo Nazis
Re: Re: Re: Banning Politicians
Well we can all see how that's worked out so far...! The troggies tend to find their way out from underground, is what I'm saying.
The rabid neo-nazis we are seeing now didn't just pop up out of nowhere, they were incubating their hatred underground for ages, wallowing in pariah status until they could get their views pushed front and centre into the mainstream. Your "solution" doesn't work in practice, AC. We need a plan that actually works.
On the post: Content Moderation At Scale Is Impossible: Some Republican Politicians Are Indistinguishable From Neo Nazis
Re:
Yep.
On the post: Content Moderation At Scale Is Impossible: Some Republican Politicians Are Indistinguishable From Neo Nazis
Re: A great misunderstanding
Thank you, Seegras. I'm sick and tired of having conservatism hijacked by the wingnuts. Cast them out!
On the post: Content Moderation At Scale Is Impossible: Some Republican Politicians Are Indistinguishable From Neo Nazis
Re: Banning Politicians
The trouble with deplatforming nasty politicians is it pushes their attitudes underground. It doesn't change their attitude or culture, just the way they describe themselves and their attitudes.
So "rename file" takes over and incidents like the James Byrd killing and the indiscriminate slaughter of black people by the police continue because we've not dealt with the root cause: horrible attitudes that need to be challenged.
Deal with the attitudes and you will see change. Don't just pretend you've solved the problem by banning some Nazis from Twitter.
On the post: Content Moderation At Scale Is Impossible: Some Republican Politicians Are Indistinguishable From Neo Nazis
Re: trying to change the subject
I'm a white Christian. Whether I conform to your idea of normal or not is up to you but I've never been targeted over the colour of my skin or for my faith positions -- I've been known to pick the odd fight with militant "ban religion!" types.
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