Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
"great reasoning: no matter how INFINITESIMAL the chance, we should drill on it, right ? so we'll have alien invasion drills, and zombie drills, and cane toad licking drills, and meteorite drills, and, et cetera ad infinitum ad nauseum 'drills' ? ? ?
it would be easier if people just grew a pair..."
The ones you cited are pretty much not going to happen in this lifetime. Here's the point.
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles the panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
"no matter how small the potential profit - ftfy"
Can you please cite who made a profit from this considering that the State of Ohio funds its schools based on local property taxes?
"
Yeah - right.
Heh, some people will believe anything."
Yup, and you believed this drill had something to do solely with 9/11 without watching the video. Quit projecting your backwater assumptions on people you deem stupid for being at least prepared.
Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Meteor strikes will kill everything anyway so it is kind of moot ;-) Personally I would be a bit more worried about comets and NEO asteroids.
This is the point:
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles the panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero when they could be killed. That is why they drill children into procedures meant to calm people down and stay orderly so that rescue workers can more efficiently do their jobs...it stifles panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean that the students won't get upset or nervous...but at least it won't be on the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Yeah....you do....because apparently you think it unjustifiable for students to volunteer of their own free will to participate in such drills. That's the other thing about all this...it was all voluntary for the students to do this drill. Can you justify any claims that this was fear mongering given that the students actually volunteered for the activity.
Re: Wrote this short retort YESTERDAY, knowing you'd go with this, regardless.
" Update 7pm CET: A Comcast spokesperson responded to an inquiry we sent to the company’s lawyers:
“[I] am replying to let you know that the cease and desist was sent in error, and you may disregard it. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused."
"This is the same as the nuclear bomb drills of the past. Them commies are coming to get us with their nukes! Hiding under your desk will make you safe!
Look over your shoulder, that guy could be a commie! Better report him to be safe."
Considering how many nukes were actually built by both sides...ummm...I would say it was a fairly legitimate fear.
"given that a waiver is a document that absolves responsibility if something goes wrong it seems we're admitting that the cure might be more dangerous than the disease!"
No...it only means that if they chose to participate, it was of their own free will and that the school's insurance policies wouldn't be able to cover them because of that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
"Let's assume your points are valid ... do they really need to involve children? I do not see any advantage to this or than indoctrination."
That is not a question asking directly for justification. But I will answer it shorter than I did before.
Yes, Children need to be involved because they need to learn how to handle the situation in real life if a person hijacks a school bus. tHE DISTRIC IS LESS THAN 11 MINUTES AWAY from Downtown Toledo. The advantage is that they will be calm if or when it does happen to them. The intent of the board was to show that the capability to defuse a nasty situation, should it arise, is there. The reason they might not have told the students anything outside of "something different may happen on this ride to school" is to make sure that they understood this was only a drill.
Can you justify for m how it is not justifiable to "use" children in a fire drill when they are supposed to be practicing evacuation from a building...same thing only with a hostage crisis...letting whomever is in charge stay in charge of negotiations until the problem is defused.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
You're trying too hard to discredit my valid opinion. I need you to cite where it is not a good idea to conduct drills to keep people safe in general.
By the way, you not only questioned this drill mentioned in the article as being keeping students prepared, but also questioned the "for the children" "mentality" towards fire, tornado, and lock-down drills that are also "for the children"...
You see, by your logic, since most of the fires in schools mostly only ever happen during off hours it is unnecessary to drill students in that.
Just watch the video...it was for the benefit of the students and faculty staff of the school distric. It is a bit reassuring to the students to know that someone will be there to stop the situation no?? Not entirely useless to keep calm or to be trained to be assured that help will be on the way methinks.
Like I said, the excuse they used was deplorable. Anyone could consider a hijacking.
On the thought that "oh it could never happen"...keep in mind that, until 2010, Mount Vernon, Ohio hadn't had such a gruesome murder in 150 years....yet it did happen. If you ever visited the town before 2010, you would have gotten the idea that murders do not happen in Knox County...let alone its County Seat of Mount Vernon....yet it still happened.
The reason I bring up the murder case where an entire family, save the daughter, was cut up into pieces and stuffed into a tree is because the case was solved relatively quickly. The Knox County Sheriff's Office and Mount Vernon PD's detective units were drilled over the years to deal with such cases. Matthew Hofffmen was arrested and apprehended and convicted all within a time span of 3 months due to the "unnecessary" drills those law enforcement officers used as training.
So even if things may or may not happen or seem like they aren't going to happen, they will at least be prepared for it. Given that the students were the ones being drilled, I would say that, while 9/11 is a poor excuse for it, at least the children are prepared for the situation.
"But having a known plan may also make you a target. Sounds crazy, but it can be true. For example, I think it was Columbine where students were evacuated from the building and then were sitting ducks because the door was locked behind them. It worked because the killers knew the procedure that would be followed."
How many people outside of the school building were shot for being outside?
"And students cannot prepare for a bus hijacking. Tell, me, if your bus is hijacked, what is the proper thing to do? Try to sneak out your phone and dial 911? Try to exit through the back door and run? Have the football team try to tackle the hijacker? Just sit back and let it happen? This depends on so many factors that you cannot simply run a drill and say you've prepared those students."
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero when they could be killed. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
"Lots of words ... however you failed to justify the use of children in this so called drill."
If you had red the article...it was not a SWAT training exercise. It was a School Drill...therefore CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES PRACTICING THE DRILL....
1. They gave students a fair warning that something out of the ordinary was going to happen.
2. They conducted it in a manner that told the students that in these types of situations, they need to keep calm and diligent and aware to their surroundings to be able to take advantage of the opportunity to escape.
3. The drill was conducted in the same manner that a school bus fire drill would have occurred. Only this time it was a hostage situation.
This is no less reasonable than practicing for bomb threats, fire drills, and school lock-downs. It's not meant to fear monger children, it is meant to teach them to stay calm in an emergency situation and not try to play the hero role. The state has been doing this type of thing since the Columbine School Shooting.
Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
The drill is not about control...it is about being prepared for an event that can happen, no matter how small the probability that it can happen. Go piss on yourself or wake up to reality.
There it is again -- the baseless claim that a bus hijacking is "very possible in our world today." And the addition of "our world today" makes it clear that Goss has bought everything the DHS is selling -- that we are in infinitely more danger today than we were pre-9/11.
First off, the State of Ohio has been implementing these types of measures since Columbine. The problem is that it is human nature to become complacent and secure if things don't happen for too long. Let's look at the key thisgs that differentiate this from any other state in the US
Rossford City School District did make sure of the safety of their students by informing them that this wasn't a typical bus ride. Now, before anyone cites 9/11-isms, they need to think about how often these things don't happen. A lot of things have happened lately to rural Ohio in the last few years to places that one would typically think nothing ever could happen. Mount Vernon, Ohio had its first 3rd degree murder in 150 years back in 2010. If you want something sachool related, Chardon, Ohio had a school shooting in 2012. Complacency towards nothing happening makes a potential target, no matter how slim the odds, to anyone who would want to take advantage of the situation. Complacency is one of the biggest issues because many schools distract in Ohio...particularly those with lower population counts...never have these sort of issues to deal with.
"Except with a fire, there are very specific things that the kids should do (evacuate the building, assemble in a specific location(. That's less true with a bus hijacking."
The more we practice things, the more we know what to do in an emergency. Fire Drills were an integral part of my K-5 education. Thanks to bomb threats, we knew go immediately to the safe zone if we become separated from our class. Ohio's education system requires preventative preparations for all sorts of scenarios.
Then That means that they do happen. People often never though about practicing lock-downs in Ohio, before Columbine. The Chardon, Ohio incident only confirmed that reasonable measures need to be taken to ensure that the minimal amount of people get hurt.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
it would be easier if people just grew a pair..."
The ones you cited are pretty much not going to happen in this lifetime. Here's the point.
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles the panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Can you please cite who made a profit from this considering that the State of Ohio funds its schools based on local property taxes?
"
Yeah - right.
Heh, some people will believe anything."
Yup, and you believed this drill had something to do solely with 9/11 without watching the video. Quit projecting your backwater assumptions on people you deem stupid for being at least prepared.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
This is the point:
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles the panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
On the post: When Even Totally Bogus Copyright Threats Over Court Documents Comes Close To Shutting Down A Site, Something's Broken
Re: Wrote this short retort YESTERDAY, knowing you'd go with this, regardless.
“[I] am replying to let you know that the cease and desist was sent in error, and you may disregard it. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused."
Already covered no worries.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re:
Look over your shoulder, that guy could be a commie! Better report him to be safe."
Considering how many nukes were actually built by both sides...ummm...I would say it was a fairly legitimate fear.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Perfect
No...it only means that if they chose to participate, it was of their own free will and that the school's insurance policies wouldn't be able to cover them because of that.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
That is not a question asking directly for justification. But I will answer it shorter than I did before.
Yes, Children need to be involved because they need to learn how to handle the situation in real life if a person hijacks a school bus. tHE DISTRIC IS LESS THAN 11 MINUTES AWAY from Downtown Toledo. The advantage is that they will be calm if or when it does happen to them. The intent of the board was to show that the capability to defuse a nasty situation, should it arise, is there. The reason they might not have told the students anything outside of "something different may happen on this ride to school" is to make sure that they understood this was only a drill.
Can you justify for m how it is not justifiable to "use" children in a fire drill when they are supposed to be practicing evacuation from a building...same thing only with a hostage crisis...letting whomever is in charge stay in charge of negotiations until the problem is defused.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
By the way, you not only questioned this drill mentioned in the article as being keeping students prepared, but also questioned the "for the children" "mentality" towards fire, tornado, and lock-down drills that are also "for the children"...
You see, by your logic, since most of the fires in schools mostly only ever happen during off hours it is unnecessary to drill students in that.
Just watch the video...it was for the benefit of the students and faculty staff of the school distric. It is a bit reassuring to the students to know that someone will be there to stop the situation no?? Not entirely useless to keep calm or to be trained to be assured that help will be on the way methinks.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
On the thought that "oh it could never happen"...keep in mind that, until 2010, Mount Vernon, Ohio hadn't had such a gruesome murder in 150 years....yet it did happen. If you ever visited the town before 2010, you would have gotten the idea that murders do not happen in Knox County...let alone its County Seat of Mount Vernon....yet it still happened.
The reason I bring up the murder case where an entire family, save the daughter, was cut up into pieces and stuffed into a tree is because the case was solved relatively quickly. The Knox County Sheriff's Office and Mount Vernon PD's detective units were drilled over the years to deal with such cases. Matthew Hofffmen was arrested and apprehended and convicted all within a time span of 3 months due to the "unnecessary" drills those law enforcement officers used as training.
So even if things may or may not happen or seem like they aren't going to happen, they will at least be prepared for it. Given that the students were the ones being drilled, I would say that, while 9/11 is a poor excuse for it, at least the children are prepared for the situation.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
How many people outside of the school building were shot for being outside?
"And students cannot prepare for a bus hijacking. Tell, me, if your bus is hijacked, what is the proper thing to do? Try to sneak out your phone and dial 911? Try to exit through the back door and run? Have the football team try to tackle the hijacker? Just sit back and let it happen? This depends on so many factors that you cannot simply run a drill and say you've prepared those students."
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero when they could be killed. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
If you had red the article...it was not a SWAT training exercise. It was a School Drill...therefore CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES PRACTICING THE DRILL....
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
1. They gave students a fair warning that something out of the ordinary was going to happen.
2. They conducted it in a manner that told the students that in these types of situations, they need to keep calm and diligent and aware to their surroundings to be able to take advantage of the opportunity to escape.
3. The drill was conducted in the same manner that a school bus fire drill would have occurred. Only this time it was a hostage situation.
This is no less reasonable than practicing for bomb threats, fire drills, and school lock-downs. It's not meant to fear monger children, it is meant to teach them to stay calm in an emergency situation and not try to play the hero role. The state has been doing this type of thing since the Columbine School Shooting.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
There it is again -- the baseless claim that a bus hijacking is "very possible in our world today." And the addition of "our world today" makes it clear that Goss has bought everything the DHS is selling -- that we are in infinitely more danger today than we were pre-9/11.
First off, the State of Ohio has been implementing these types of measures since Columbine. The problem is that it is human nature to become complacent and secure if things don't happen for too long. Let's look at the key thisgs that differentiate this from any other state in the US
Rossford City School District did make sure of the safety of their students by informing them that this wasn't a typical bus ride. Now, before anyone cites 9/11-isms, they need to think about how often these things don't happen. A lot of things have happened lately to rural Ohio in the last few years to places that one would typically think nothing ever could happen. Mount Vernon, Ohio had its first 3rd degree murder in 150 years back in 2010. If you want something sachool related, Chardon, Ohio had a school shooting in 2012. Complacency towards nothing happening makes a potential target, no matter how slim the odds, to anyone who would want to take advantage of the situation. Complacency is one of the biggest issues because many schools distract in Ohio...particularly those with lower population counts...never have these sort of issues to deal with.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
The more we practice things, the more we know what to do in an emergency. Fire Drills were an integral part of my K-5 education. Thanks to bomb threats, we knew go immediately to the safe zone if we become separated from our class. Ohio's education system requires preventative preparations for all sorts of scenarios.
On the post: Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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