"Here is a guy who has written a book which he expects people to pay for before reading, and you're suggesting that people shouldn't ridicule him for the views in his book?"
I emailed Wikileaks this morning about making a donation and inquired about a conduit other than PayPal. Received an email back from the wikileaks address this afternoon telling me that "Paypal has unfrozen our account as of this afternoon."
I spent much of the 1990s debating online with Holocaust deniers (alt.revisionism was ground zero.) Lanier's debating style reminds me of the class of denier who was a follower rather than a leader.
Lanier sounds to me as though he is someone who has a deep emotional connection to the argument he is making, but is parroting someone else's logic rather than having constructed his own. He lacks a deep understanding of the argument so, when pressed, he has to fall back on phrases he internalized during his own learning; or he waffles because he really doesn't know.
When one is debating someone like this it is unlikely one changes the debaters mind--unless one is table to tap into the emotional place that brought him to his original position. Rather one is debating more to sway the audience.
To that end, it is important to do what Paley did: treat Lanier with respect even if as his logic is being shredded. An audience member new to the topic can be persuaded by this approach. If the debate against Lanier becomes nasty or ad hominem, the naive listener may become sympathetic to the victim.
For that reason, the nasty ad hominems here are not helpful.
I came to comments to say exactly what Sneeje said. And if we both thought of it right away, so will many of the paying subscribers.
My subscription is worth more if it gets me into content I can't get into for free. If they keep tinkering with the dial, they keep tinkering with the value of my subscription.
It's isn't cognitive dissonance; I am quite sure it must be something else
Mike, I can buy the point you are making here. But, as you might suspect, the newspaper/magazine industry will not get it. They won't get it even five years down the road when it should become obvious to them (they will find some other excuse why their business model didn't work.)
I am doing some consulting right now for a major museum. Their marketing VP wants help ramping up a project that is essentially a web magazine in their domain of expertise. Her focus is on all the great content they can deliver.
My question five minutes into our first meeting was: how do you plan to monetize this? (In fact, most of this blogs readership would have known to ask that question.)
Her answer was essentially, "I don't know yet." This was a fair answer as she is bringing me in very early to the project. But as we explored her options for monetizing, it became clear that paying for content was very high on her list. I told her it wouldn't work and explained why (the basic stuff Mike talks about). She insisted that lots of newspapers are going to start charging for content soon. And she is confident that because her material is high quality, it will have value.
I had a similar event happen to me on Christmas day flying to Hawaii. I had put my boarding pass in my backpack which ran through the detector. Ad the human detector, the guard asked to see my boarding pass. I told him it was in my backpack inside the other detector.
He then told me I wouldn't be able to fly that day. When I looked confused, he told me he was joking.
And my thought was: I am not allowed to make jokes here, then you shouldn't be allowed to make jokes here either.
As I thought about it later, had I gone ballistic, they would have arrested me. But when it became clear I went ballistic over his joke - he would have been in a fair amount of trouble too.
I hadn't ever thought about the fact that other people were sharing my experience. But it certainly is true that I once had a Real subscription (to listen to basketball and football games) and ended up giving up the games in order to drop Real given the frustrations I had with them.
China's trump card is that they are a non-Democratic state. They can take the Google employees in China (mostly Chinese nationals, I presume) and throw them in prison or worse.
In short, China has draconian negotiating tools available that Google can't match.
I signed up early to be part of Obama's web presence. Am fairly happy with his performance as President (and anticipate voting for him again), but have been very disappointed with his online presence. Mike's post captures what I have been feeling, but didn't know how to say.
I still get emails from Obama and staff, but for the past year they've gone directly into the bit bucket. The broadcast political pablum holds no value to me. Had they gotten me involved, it would have been a very different year.
Someday I will enjoy reading the article about how/why they dropped the ball on this.
On the post: Nina Paley vs. Jaron Lanier
Re: Re: What I learned debating nazis
Exactly! That is what I am saying.
Ridicule the views, don't ridicule the person.
On the post: PayPal Suspends WikiLeaks Account Yet Again; Freezes Assets
another data point
They also said CC donation can be made at https://tipit.to/wikileaks.org
They do not currently have US 501c3 status, but are working on it.
On the post: Nina Paley vs. Jaron Lanier
What I learned debating nazis
Lanier sounds to me as though he is someone who has a deep emotional connection to the argument he is making, but is parroting someone else's logic rather than having constructed his own. He lacks a deep understanding of the argument so, when pressed, he has to fall back on phrases he internalized during his own learning; or he waffles because he really doesn't know.
When one is debating someone like this it is unlikely one changes the debaters mind--unless one is table to tap into the emotional place that brought him to his original position. Rather one is debating more to sway the audience.
To that end, it is important to do what Paley did: treat Lanier with respect even if as his logic is being shredded. An audience member new to the topic can be persuaded by this approach. If the debate against Lanier becomes nasty or ad hominem, the naive listener may become sympathetic to the victim.
For that reason, the nasty ad hominems here are not helpful.
On the post: Malaysia's New Copyright Act To Make Owning A Single Counterfeit DVD Illegal
Everyone should mail a counterfeit DVD to a Malaysian movie executive
Or worse, receiving one as a gift!
On the post: Flexible Or Paradoxical? Why The NY Times' Plan Is Inherently Self-Limiting
Cheap stale news anyone?
They could charge less on slow news days and more whenever a plane crashes into the Hudson.
They could charge less at the end of the day when the news is more stale (like bakeries sell donuts at half price before closing.)
With networked computerized paper boxes, they could even do this without a human vendor involved.
This way, you will never know what you are going to pay for the hard copy paper until you go to pay it.
That ought to help them sell more papers!
On the post: Flexible Or Paradoxical? Why The NY Times' Plan Is Inherently Self-Limiting
Re: I'd be pissed...
My subscription is worth more if it gets me into content I can't get into for free. If they keep tinkering with the dial, they keep tinkering with the value of my subscription.
On the post: The Value Of The Link vs. The Value Of The Content
Re: nytimes.com unreliable source
On the post: The Value Of The Link vs. The Value Of The Content
It's isn't cognitive dissonance; I am quite sure it must be something else
I am doing some consulting right now for a major museum. Their marketing VP wants help ramping up a project that is essentially a web magazine in their domain of expertise. Her focus is on all the great content they can deliver.
My question five minutes into our first meeting was: how do you plan to monetize this? (In fact, most of this blogs readership would have known to ask that question.)
Her answer was essentially, "I don't know yet." This was a fair answer as she is bringing me in very early to the project. But as we explored her options for monetizing, it became clear that paying for content was very high on her list. I told her it wouldn't work and explained why (the basic stuff Mike talks about). She insisted that lots of newspapers are going to start charging for content soon. And she is confident that because her material is high quality, it will have value.
Sigh.
On the post: Sometimes Protecting Free Speech Means Protecting Speech You Don't Like
Hear hear!
Not sure which is correct. But either way, this is a very good post.
On the post: UK Man Arrested And Banned From Airport For Twitter Joke About Blowing Up An Airport
Re: WHAT??!!
He then told me I wouldn't be able to fly that day. When I looked confused, he told me he was joking.
And my thought was: I am not allowed to make jokes here, then you shouldn't be allowed to make jokes here either.
As I thought about it later, had I gone ballistic, they would have arrested me. But when it became clear I went ballistic over his joke - he would have been in a fair amount of trouble too.
On the post: Be Careful Challenging Others To Read 100 Books, As You Might Infringe On Someone's Trademark
one upping them
On the post: Rob Glaser Leaving RealNetworks; A Chance To Reflect On How Being Anti-Consumer Fails In The Long Run
hated the sneakware
Sure does look like I was not the only one.
On the post: Google Considers Leaving China If China Will Not Allow Uncensored Search
Re: net still trumps?
China's trump card is that they are a non-Democratic state. They can take the Google employees in China (mostly Chinese nationals, I presume) and throw them in prison or worse.
In short, China has draconian negotiating tools available that Google can't match.
On the post: Man Sues Neighbor For Not Turning Off WiFi And Cell Phone
Re: Re: anti-wifi hats?
On the post: New Lobbying Organization Tries To Skirt The Rules So It's Not Called A Lobbying Organization
fishy
On the post: France's Latest Plan: Tax Google, Microsoft And Yahoo To Fund Record Labels
Silver lining to this cloud
And that voice might be helpful.
On the post: Still Waiting For The First Real Particpatory Presidential Administration
Big fan of Obama, not of his web presence
I still get emails from Obama and staff, but for the past year they've gone directly into the bit bucket. The broadcast political pablum holds no value to me. Had they gotten me involved, it would have been a very different year.
Someday I will enjoy reading the article about how/why they dropped the ball on this.
On the post: Verizon Wireless Denies It's Charging People Phantom $1.99 Fee, Despite Tons Of Complaints
Re: Re: Er, are they kinda insane?
Obviously the PR guy was told what to say, probably by the lawyers.
Given that Pogue and 400 others have the charges on their bills, what the canned statement effectively means is:
"We lied to the F.C.C."
On the post: Lawmaker, Convicted Of Raping Foster Kids, Claims Name Is Copyrighted So You Can't Report It
Re: Link to the original crime reports
On the post: Lawmaker, Convicted Of Raping Foster Kids, Claims Name Is Copyrighted So You Can't Report It
Re: Re: Re: Re DidTedAlvinKlaudtRapeHisTwoFosterDaughters.com
You will all have to pay me!
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