Except that they didn't do anything like that. Your 2nd Amendment rights are broader and more defined than ever. (Except maybe the actual 1700's, when you were required by Congress to purchase and maintain a variety of weaponry. :P)
I wish there was an option to hide AC comments + their replies, unless they are marked insightful. If the ACs want to be taken seriously, they should at least sign up.
...therefore they are covered under the gift card laws.
At this point, Christopher, I'm just copying and pasting things that I've already stated.
Again and again and again and again and again and again...
Groupon has not claimed to be above those laws. Groupon claims to be strictly following those laws. I know that we usually see cases where companies try to claim that certain laws don't apply to them, but this isn't one of those cases.
This is hilarious. In the past, posters have been criticized for skipping the reply button because they really were trying to hide their lame responses. I let you know, not because I think that's what you're trying to do, but because you seem new here.
You replied with some BS about how I was obv. criticizing you (because attempts are help are criticism?) and then, ironically, telling me that I should refrain from attributing nefarious purposes to the actions of others. Now you've done that yourself something like twice more since then and I can't help but laugh at you.
Of course it's not about me. If it were about me, I wouldn't have attempted to relay any information to you. As for pompousness, again, you're black.
It cannot possibly be a pre-paid purchase, because the purchase happens when you exchange the money. :P
Anyway, it may be a regular purchase, instead of a credit purchase, but if so, HR 627 no longer applies and contract law would kick in, meaning that the expiration is valid, since you agreed to it at purchase. :)
GIFT CERTIFICATE- The term `gift certificate' means an electronic promise that is--
`(ii) issued in a specified amount that may not be increased or reloaded;
The fact that Groupon or the vendor will give you something else of equal value is irrelevant. You paid for something and they refused to deliver.
Incorrect, according to yourself. If a gift certificate is for an amount, not an item and you keep the amount for five years, as required by law, then where's the refusal to deliver?
Rose, most legal definitions of a coupon pertain to bonds and securities, not to free give aways.
Could that be because coupons don't have to be 'free give aways'?
1. a portion of a certificate, ticket, label, advertisement, or the like, set off from the main body by dotted lines or the like to emphasize its separability, entitling the holder to something, as a gift or discount, or for use as an order blank, a contest entry form, etc.
2. a separate certificate, ticket, etc., for the same purpose."
Not legal, but you get the idea.
Yes, I do get the idea. I hope you get the idea as well. The idea being that I was right and the definition of a coupon has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with value.
Groupon cannot, in their terms, override applicable law. That is, if there is law about pre-paid sales (even discount) in a state, those laws will always apply, no matter the terms as written.
That may be true, but it has nothing to do with this case. This case is not about pre-paid services or sales. It's about whether or not Groupon is treating their gift certificate sales legally.
The line of thinking here is pretty easy. If Groupon only paid on redeemed coupons, they would have a big motivation to sell short term items that expire rapidly, to avoid actual delivery while retain the funds. If they pay out on purchase, the motivation is more on the retailer than groupon.
I see. You were looking for an ulterior motive on Groupon's part. :P
Of course, if the redemption level is lower, the net cost to the retailer is less as well, because they have more income to cover their special. (sell 100 coupons for $50 off. If people pay for 100 of them and redeem only half of them in the allotted time, the effective cost is almost zero).
No, Groupon takes a nice chunk out of it. I've heard it's something like like 50% but I don't have any firm numbers there.
But since they are selling a "cash value" gift certificate of sorts, it is pretty hard for them to avoid state law.
Again and again and again and again and again and again... Well, first time to you, but oh, man, again on this thread.
Groupon has not claimed to be above those laws. Groupon claims to be strictly following those laws. I know that we usually see cases where companies try to claim that certain laws don't apply to them, but this isn't one of those cases.
Seeing as how I quoted your statement--including your name...
Many users go to their profile and click straight through to their comments to see responses, as opposed to slogging through entire threads. That's why it looks bad, not because you didn't quote me.
...and responded to it thoroughly that seems like a really stupid and unfounded accusation on your part.
It may seem like an accusation - to someone who didn't actually read what I wrote. To everyone else, it looks like a simple exchange of information to a newcomer.
I read the comments flat rather than nested, so the reply feature is not something I generally think of as relevant.
I gathered that, which I why I took a moment to to tell you how it looks to the rest of us.
Perhaps it would behoove you not to presume nefarious motivations on the part of others.
We can do that, but gatekeepers serve a useful function in
a)Double checking the basics of our work
b)Assuring that only notable things will be released
Really? Are you serious? More junk science is being released now than ever, so please explain how these gatekeepers are stopping that.
A coupon generally is something you don't pay for, a gimmie, a discount, a lead on.
Really? Can you show me a definition that says that? Preferably a legal definition. Thanks.
What Groupon sells is discounted pre-paid services. As such, it falls much more closely to the idea of pre-paid gift card or other, and is subject to those rules.
No one has stated that Groupons are not subject to laws surrounding gift certificates, not even Groupon. In fact, Groupon specifically references those laws in their fine print on the bottom of every Groupon.
Now, here is an even better question: Does Groupon only pay the retailer when the coupon is used, or do they pay them on sales of coupons up front?
Retailers are paid around the time of purchase, not at use. I can't see why it's relevant, though. Will you expound on this line of thinking? :)
On the post: Feds Really Do Seem To Think That Linking To Infringing Content Can Be A Jailable Offense
Re: I really do not mind them doing this ....
God, I hope so. :/
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Re: Re:
On the post: Funniest/Most Insightful Comments Of The Week At Techdirt
Re: Re: Re:
SLOG has that. I wish TD did. :/
On the post: Funniest/Most Insightful Comments Of The Week At Techdirt
Re: Re: A Day in the Life of Anonymous Coward (Troll)
On the post: Funniest/Most Insightful Comments Of The Week At Techdirt
Re: Re: Re: WOW - a Manifesto !!!
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Re: Re: The suit has merit.
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Re: Re: Not a coupon
That's certainly not true. Many entities legally sell books of coupons. There's no expectation of a cash value, so HR 627 doesn't apply.
If you do have to pay for them, then they are not coupons.... they are the equivalent of gift cards.
[Citation Needed.]
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Re: Mountain/Molehill.
At this point, Christopher, I'm just copying and pasting things that I've already stated.
Again and again and again and again and again and again...
Groupon has not claimed to be above those laws. Groupon claims to be strictly following those laws. I know that we usually see cases where companies try to claim that certain laws don't apply to them, but this isn't one of those cases.
On the post: ChurchHatesTucker's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: Re: Argh!
On the post: ChurchHatesTucker's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re:
On the post: ChurchHatesTucker's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Groupon has never disputed that so... No, that's not why they're in court.
Hey, also? Which church hates you and why? :P
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re:
You replied with some BS about how I was obv. criticizing you (because attempts are help are criticism?) and then, ironically, telling me that I should refrain from attributing nefarious purposes to the actions of others. Now you've done that yourself something like twice more since then and I can't help but laugh at you.
Of course it's not about me. If it were about me, I wouldn't have attempted to relay any information to you. As for pompousness, again, you're black.
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Re: Re: Not a coupon
Anyway, it may be a regular purchase, instead of a credit purchase, but if so, HR 627 no longer applies and contract law would kick in, meaning that the expiration is valid, since you agreed to it at purchase. :)
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Federal law says...
`(ii) issued in a specified amount that may not be increased or reloaded;
The fact that Groupon or the vendor will give you something else of equal value is irrelevant. You paid for something and they refused to deliver.
Incorrect, according to yourself. If a gift certificate is for an amount, not an item and you keep the amount for five years, as required by law, then where's the refusal to deliver?
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Re: Re:
Could that be because coupons don't have to be 'free give aways'?
1. a portion of a certificate, ticket, label, advertisement, or the like, set off from the main body by dotted lines or the like to emphasize its separability, entitling the holder to something, as a gift or discount, or for use as an order blank, a contest entry form, etc.
2. a separate certificate, ticket, etc., for the same purpose."
Not legal, but you get the idea.
Yes, I do get the idea. I hope you get the idea as well. The idea being that I was right and the definition of a coupon has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with value.
Groupon cannot, in their terms, override applicable law. That is, if there is law about pre-paid sales (even discount) in a state, those laws will always apply, no matter the terms as written.
That may be true, but it has nothing to do with this case. This case is not about pre-paid services or sales. It's about whether or not Groupon is treating their gift certificate sales legally.
The line of thinking here is pretty easy. If Groupon only paid on redeemed coupons, they would have a big motivation to sell short term items that expire rapidly, to avoid actual delivery while retain the funds. If they pay out on purchase, the motivation is more on the retailer than groupon.
I see. You were looking for an ulterior motive on Groupon's part. :P
Of course, if the redemption level is lower, the net cost to the retailer is less as well, because they have more income to cover their special. (sell 100 coupons for $50 off. If people pay for 100 of them and redeem only half of them in the allotted time, the effective cost is almost zero).
No, Groupon takes a nice chunk out of it. I've heard it's something like like 50% but I don't have any firm numbers there.
But since they are selling a "cash value" gift certificate of sorts, it is pretty hard for them to avoid state law.
Again and again and again and again and again and again... Well, first time to you, but oh, man, again on this thread.
Groupon has not claimed to be above those laws. Groupon claims to be strictly following those laws. I know that we usually see cases where companies try to claim that certain laws don't apply to them, but this isn't one of those cases.
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re: Re: Re: Then again, maybe not...
Many users go to their profile and click straight through to their comments to see responses, as opposed to slogging through entire threads. That's why it looks bad, not because you didn't quote me.
...and responded to it thoroughly that seems like a really stupid and unfounded accusation on your part.
It may seem like an accusation - to someone who didn't actually read what I wrote. To everyone else, it looks like a simple exchange of information to a newcomer.
I read the comments flat rather than nested, so the reply feature is not something I generally think of as relevant.
I gathered that, which I why I took a moment to to tell you how it looks to the rest of us.
Perhaps it would behoove you not to presume nefarious motivations on the part of others.
Pot? This is the kettle. You're black.
On the post: The Artificially High Price Of Academic Journals And How It Impacts Everyone
Re: Re: I'm confused...
a)Double checking the basics of our work
b)Assuring that only notable things will be released
Really? Are you serious? More junk science is being released now than ever, so please explain how these gatekeepers are stopping that.
On the post: Groupon Sued For Having Short Expirations On Coupons
Re:
Really? Can you show me a definition that says that? Preferably a legal definition. Thanks.
What Groupon sells is discounted pre-paid services. As such, it falls much more closely to the idea of pre-paid gift card or other, and is subject to those rules.
No one has stated that Groupons are not subject to laws surrounding gift certificates, not even Groupon. In fact, Groupon specifically references those laws in their fine print on the bottom of every Groupon.
Now, here is an even better question: Does Groupon only pay the retailer when the coupon is used, or do they pay them on sales of coupons up front?
Retailers are paid around the time of purchase, not at use. I can't see why it's relevant, though. Will you expound on this line of thinking? :)
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