Re: Re: Re: Re: A Political Rather than a Safety Issue
What Road Rage says is true...I remember back a few years ago when my father was working for a company that made police radar and lidar (the laser version) equipment. His company's radar happened to be the most accurate radar out at the time...but even then, it still had a +/- in the accuracy column. He was telling me that courts in Texas won't even accept radar readings that are less than 6-7 mph over the speed limit if the reading was taken from a radar (lidar was something around 1-3 because it was far more accurate). Even then, the vehicle had to be sitting still and the weather had to be pristine for the readings to be acceptable. There are so many things that can affect radar and lidar readings that it's just silly...and all it took was a lawyer that had the brains to go look it up and the defendent could walk free.
Besides, I like the philosophy that Texas instills in its drivers anyway (much better than up in the North where I live). I remember my dad getting pulled over when I was young. The cop told him to speed it up or he was going to give him a ticket for "reckless endangerment" because my dad was going the speed limit and the rest of traffic was going 9-10 over!! At the same time, I remember the driver's test emphasized going with the flow of traffic over the speed limit (though, I would suggest going the speed limit for the written driver's test...just a suggestion...the driver's test cops are anal...).
Now that's committment to SAFETY rather than the word of the law.
I think, as Jujubean has mentioned already, the new Pro-IP act that has been put into law recently changes that...The point is that Congress and the Entertainment industries are attempting to place the responsibility of enforcement into the hands of the Department of Justice. You are right in that it NEVER belongs there, but the push for it was very strong and it almost succeeded...as it is, I believe that the portions of the Act to do so were removed from the Act just before it was placed into law (someone correct me?).
dang...someone tell me...am I completely misinterpreting LostSailor completely?!?! Is this not the THIRD post where he has completely taken a line or two out of an entire post completely out of context and flamed it?!?
LostSailor...seriously...address what is actually said. Once again, you missed (or ignored) the whole point of what is being said and you are throwing out a straw man argument instead.
The quoting of Donohue was not an "also" or a side-comment on Mike's part...the side comments were those on the IP enforcers...he brought them up ONLY to introduce the backstory to Tom Donohue's comment - which is the REAL point and purpose of this article.
Mike addresses Tom Donohue's statement directly...you are only arguing about the IRRELEVANT point that cops shouldn't have open minds...the point is irrelevant because Mike isn't even talking about IP cops...since when is Donohue an IP cop?!?!? He's involved in IP, but he is most definitely NOT an IP cop...from the sense that he doesn't go out and police IP...he only makes IP POLICY. That is a HUGE distinction. He ISN'T the IP attache...if you read the article, he is only referred to from the context that he spoke on the issue.
Frankly, I think you missed his point there. Mike is responding to Tom Donohue, US Chamber of Commerce President, not to the IP police themselves. Tom Donohue made the claim that consumers/tech dirt/people-who-are-not-part-of-the-pro-ip-camp are the threat. The fact that HE was the one making that statement is the point that Mike addresses...and Mike concludes logically that we are not a part of the argument according to a pro-IP big-wig. Your statement concerning the IP Attache actually seems to be a misunderstanding/misinterpretation on your part...
Ya...screw everyone who thinks that you should have to be good at your job or work hard at it to make millions! All musicians should be compensated for being musicians, even if they are mediocre or are lazy! This is a poor business model because it excludes too many poor musicians from the business!
BTW...seeing as how I'm an amateur musician, I need to apply for my free industry bailout...I want my free complimentary compensation (free with every RIAA membership application!).
Funny thing...how long has it been since the Recording Industry has started making arguments that downloading hurts them? And now...after what, 10 years (-ish)?, we FINALLY have an extensive, in-depth report. Not that 142 pages guarantee an accurate report, but it does seem to be a better source of information than the drivel that comes out of the mouths of Recording Industry execs and shills...I definitely want to know when a good English translation of this becomes publicly available...this does look very promising though...
Since when does ANY person DESERVE money?!? You get paid for your 60 hours a week because you and your boss have worked out something of mutual benefit to both of you - your job. If your boss is dissatisfied with you, you get fired. End of story. No one cries (except you) and no one else cares.
Good bands/artists succeed because the public gives them good evaluations. These bands eventually get paid through whatever their individual business model is. There is mutual benefit involved. If a band sucks, then they might get cut by their record label, or, if they are indie, they might not be able to book venues anymore. Either way, they get FIRED.
Since when do ANY of these musicians DESERVE to get paid?!? I'll pay if I like them. And there is NO record label that can tell me who I like...that happens to be MY call.
I'm a musician myself. I realize that I am only going to be paid if I can make the audience WANT my music, want some merchandise, want me to perform...Why in the freaking world do these IDIOTS not get this?! Dump them in the streets and let them EARN their pay. Stop bottle-feeding them.
For those that have earned their pay in the past and are struggling now, "Get over it!" It happens to anyone with any kind of job. No one gets paid simply because they once did some good work...that kind of attitude is ridiculous...it doesn't matter if you have seen some people getting away with it...you can't expect to ALSO be able to EXTORT people...danged greedy bastards...
You James, must be one of those bonehead non-Christian whack-jobs who gets a kick out of making fun of them because you met an idiot who claimed Christianity (or even a group...doesn't matter). It's nice to know that you are capable of recognizing their intolerance and are quite tolerant of them yourself.
I agree that there are a lot of "Christian" fundamentalists and other groups out there who think that legislating morality is some sort of "God's Will" or something like that...but I know that many are very leery of that for good reason - it's stupid. Whether or not it's a specific group of people pushing these senseless ideals, you are correct in that we need someone or something to hold the "crazies" in check.
Funny it is how the crazy people seem to be the ones most motivated to get political office.
@Anonymous Coward - Actually, I think that the options making no business sense is actually the point that Mike is trying to make. If I recall correctly, there was a posting a couple weeks ago about the business/legal ramifications of Universal's attempts to stifle Redbox...I agree that Universal DOES have the ability to legally stifle Redbox, but, as Michael B has so kindly pointed out, Redbox COULD sue Universal over anti-competitive laws...if Universal is trying to create their own kiosk empire, then their moves become obvious vertical integration. If Universal contracts the kiosks out, then we have another Intel on our hands...
Seriously, though...I think I have to stand back like Mike is and shake my head at the blatent stupidity and lack of common sense of the people who are running these corporations...What are they thinking? That they might get lucky and escape getting sued? Doesn't ANYONE think about the long-term anymore? Or has our long-term just become the quarterly report to the investors?
Dang, someone's panties are in a wad...seriously...try thinking about what you are going to say, taking the time to make sure that you are calm and collected enough to make sense, and THEN and ONLY THEN, try posting. Posting before you are calm makes you sound like a total nitwit. We actually do care about what you have to say, but you are not helping yourself by making a fool of yourself before we even know what you are trying to say. Just repost your comment and make a little more sense. Mike is just addressing the fact that your argument was left uncompleted. It's difficult to be fair to you unless you have respect enough for others' thoughts so that you can explain yours calmly and clearly. We can't do anything but ignore you otherwise...
Guess it just goes to show that being accomplished extortionists like our dear friends in the *AA's requires time and experience to get it right. I feel that Atari's just jumping onto the new business model (produce crappy product and sue your customers for not paying up) before realizing the consequences and understanding just how the technique works.
I am not a copyright supporter DESPITE attempting to remain legal in my actions
For all of you copyright law supporters out there, I only thought it fair that someone inform you that not every one of us who dislike current copyright laws are criminals. While I know that many people who argue against copyright law HAVE/DO/WILL break the law, I feel it's important to realize that many legitimate arguments are made as well...
For the record, I do not and have not downloaded ANY song that I do not own the CD for. I do not play games that I do not have legal licenses for.
That being said. I DO NOT play ANY games or listen to ANY music from original media. I have been subject to far too many broken and scratched CDs, DVDs, video tapes, etc. It is well within my rights as a consumer to protect my investment. It is well within my rights to keep a valued chair in my house from damage by covering it with a tarp or such, but why is it not within my rights to prevent damage to my license (the physical CD/DVD itself) by backing it up. Some older software used CD-keys...that was the license...Microsoft still uses a key as its license...so, it's not a big deal to use the original because they are replaceable for only costs of shipping. However, for most digital media that comes with the purchase of a physical DVD or CD, that disk IS the license itself. It is NOT replaceable should it be damaged...so I take it upon myself to protect my investment.
That being said, the real reason that I do not support current copyright law is because I can only see it as the taking of rights from common people. That bothers me. You CANNOT legislate morality/ethics. It NEVER works. And, to top it all off, it ALWAYS backfires...inevitably, someone comes along who is willing to twist the law to work for them...You do NOT want to become the enabler(fair warning to fundamentalists of any kind...).
I read this site because I see a group of people who clearly want to defend their rights and I am glad to see that some people here do stand up for others' rights. No matter what I feel is right or wrong, nothing comes from forcing someone to live the same way that I do...it only causes more problems.
Re: I like indie bands too... but how long can it last?
As an independent musician myself, I cannot help but notice that your reaction, while extremely rational is built on the very fallacial premises that Mike (the article writer...for clarification) is constantly trying to debunk. While your argument makes plenty of sense, it is based off a few assumptions in the first place. (1)The first assumption that you make is that music is created for the PURPOSE of making money. (2) The second assumption follows the first. You assume that by virtue of your musicianship, you deserve/should/ought (whatever) to receive reimbursement for your music. (3) You also assume that this reimbursement should, therefore, come in the form of money (or the equivalent thereof that allows you to provide a living for yourself). (4) Secondly, you also assume that the life of a musician should necessarily be completely devoted to music.
Being a musician myself, it's easy to see why you would make these assumptions...a lot of my friends fall into this trap I feel also.
(1)The first assumption you make is that all music is created as part of a business. If you can't see the error in this, then, my guess is that you probably never learned much about your history of music either...yes...a good number of musicians DID make a living in some way out of their music, but the vast majority of musicians throughout history did not, and some of the most influential were never successful in their own lifetimes.
(2) Assuming that we are now only looking at the portion of musicians who enter music to MAKE MONEY, we now run across the assumption that many musicians make (in fact, many people period make) - the idea that they DESERVE money. Tell me this, if you hired me to wash your windows and I didn't fulfill my end of the contract (did a crappy job...i.e. they weren't clean), do I really deserve my pay? While not a perfect analogy...my point is that your willingness to pay me is affected by how I perform my wage-garnering task. In the music industry, the audience "pays" the performer/musician/music-writer for the entertainment provided. If you do a crappy job, the audience may pay you the first time (i.e. go to a concert or buy a cd), but they are not as likely to pay you again (from my analogy, you would probably fire me for my window-cleaning job).
(3) The third assumption you make, that you should be reimbursed with money is a finer line to tread. This one is harder to put into plain speech, so if anyone else who sees where I'm coming from on this can help me out, I would appreciate it. Basically, the idea is that you can be reimbursed for your music making talents in many different ways: money, fans, fame, the opportunity to perform again (most people just assume that they SHOULD perform again...have any of you ever watched American Idol???!? Not everyone can make it...that's reality. Not even everyone that's incredibly talented makes it in real life).
(4) This one is closely related to number 3...There are thousands of people out there in the world who work 2-3 crappy jobs just to get by in life. Since when do you DESERVE to only need to work one job yourself to live? Sometimes life is hard. Get over it. I have a nice cushy job that I work 9-5 for five days a week. I just graduated from college last May. But I grew up on the streets. I had to bust my butt to get to this level in life. As much as I might want to be a professional musician, it might not work out for me. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try. I just had hard circumstances. But thinking that you DESERVE my money is not going to make me one of your fans...and if I'm not your fan, you won't be getting my money no matter how ridiculously talented you are.
Until the babies in today's culture learn to grow up and actually EARN the money their money with hard work and stop crying when the wind doesn't blow their way, they are going to miss the opportunities that pass them by...and be left crying about pirating in their wake.
Ahh...to dream of the days when I was young and learning how the United States government was founded on ideals of liberty and justice where checks and balances wiped out the abuses of government and the common man actually had a say in government...too bad that reality is otherwise...The truth is that we are victims of our own complacency and laziness, while those who would abuse power don't mind spending the time and effort required to do so, we just sit back and cry for ourselves and complain...maybe one of these days...
til then, we have to look at things like this and depress...
I think we have a new troll! Angry Dude sounds a little different today. For all of you literary people out there, he has a different tone of voice.
@ Woody - I think you've missed the whole point. Microsoft IS stepping up to the plate for its customers. The difference is that Microsoft is doing this in a manner that it can control and possibly win rather than just caving in to WebXchange and just dishing out some money to wash everything over.
Interesting, Pete...your English vocabulary level is quite a bit higher than that which I normally encounter from people who comment here. It almost makes me wonder if you actually are from South America as you claim...yet...I am then reminded that most Americans have a much lower average reading level (in English) than the rest of the world (in English).
Still, it does make me laugh...I struggle sometimes to speak at a lower vocabulary level in order to communicate with those around me. It is a remarkably sad commentary that the posession of a strong vocabulary is so rare...
On the post: Arizona County Ditches Speed Cameras, Saying They Made Roads More Dangerous
Re: Re: Re: Re: A Political Rather than a Safety Issue
Besides, I like the philosophy that Texas instills in its drivers anyway (much better than up in the North where I live). I remember my dad getting pulled over when I was young. The cop told him to speed it up or he was going to give him a ticket for "reckless endangerment" because my dad was going the speed limit and the rest of traffic was going 9-10 over!! At the same time, I remember the driver's test emphasized going with the flow of traffic over the speed limit (though, I would suggest going the speed limit for the written driver's test...just a suggestion...the driver's test cops are anal...).
Now that's committment to SAFETY rather than the word of the law.
On the post: DOJ Gets Another Copyright Cop
Re:
I think, as Jujubean has mentioned already, the new Pro-IP act that has been put into law recently changes that...The point is that Congress and the Entertainment industries are attempting to place the responsibility of enforcement into the hands of the Department of Justice. You are right in that it NEVER belongs there, but the push for it was very strong and it almost succeeded...as it is, I believe that the portions of the Act to do so were removed from the Act just before it was placed into law (someone correct me?).
On the post: US's Global IP Cops Bemoan Anti-IP Activists For Making Their Lives More Difficult
Re: Re: Relativistic Laws
On the post: US's Global IP Cops Bemoan Anti-IP Activists For Making Their Lives More Difficult
Re: Re: Re: Not Their Job
The quoting of Donohue was not an "also" or a side-comment on Mike's part...the side comments were those on the IP enforcers...he brought them up ONLY to introduce the backstory to Tom Donohue's comment - which is the REAL point and purpose of this article.
Mike addresses Tom Donohue's statement directly...you are only arguing about the IRRELEVANT point that cops shouldn't have open minds...the point is irrelevant because Mike isn't even talking about IP cops...since when is Donohue an IP cop?!?!? He's involved in IP, but he is most definitely NOT an IP cop...from the sense that he doesn't go out and police IP...he only makes IP POLICY. That is a HUGE distinction. He ISN'T the IP attache...if you read the article, he is only referred to from the context that he spoke on the issue.
On the post: US's Global IP Cops Bemoan Anti-IP Activists For Making Their Lives More Difficult
Re: Not Their Job
On the post: US's Global IP Cops Bemoan Anti-IP Activists For Making Their Lives More Difficult
Re: IP Freely
On the post: From A Weekend Musician, To Making $4.2 Million... By Giving Music Away Free
Re: Special case
BTW...seeing as how I'm an amateur musician, I need to apply for my free industry bailout...I want my free complimentary compensation (free with every RIAA membership application!).
On the post: IP Litigation Falls In The US... But Someone Is Confused As To Why
Re: So what
IP includes patent...and copyright issues...
On the post: Respected Dutch Researchers Note That Piracy Has A Positive Impact On The Economy
Funny...
On the post: Once Again, Concert Business Sets New Records
Deserving of payment?!?!?!
Good bands/artists succeed because the public gives them good evaluations. These bands eventually get paid through whatever their individual business model is. There is mutual benefit involved. If a band sucks, then they might get cut by their record label, or, if they are indie, they might not be able to book venues anymore. Either way, they get FIRED.
Since when do ANY of these musicians DESERVE to get paid?!? I'll pay if I like them. And there is NO record label that can tell me who I like...that happens to be MY call.
I'm a musician myself. I realize that I am only going to be paid if I can make the audience WANT my music, want some merchandise, want me to perform...Why in the freaking world do these IDIOTS not get this?! Dump them in the streets and let them EARN their pay. Stop bottle-feeding them.
For those that have earned their pay in the past and are struggling now, "Get over it!" It happens to anyone with any kind of job. No one gets paid simply because they once did some good work...that kind of attitude is ridiculous...it doesn't matter if you have seen some people getting away with it...you can't expect to ALSO be able to EXTORT people...danged greedy bastards...
On the post: Did You Know Caching Is How Perverts Avoid Downloading?
Re: zero tolerance
I agree that there are a lot of "Christian" fundamentalists and other groups out there who think that legislating morality is some sort of "God's Will" or something like that...but I know that many are very leery of that for good reason - it's stupid. Whether or not it's a specific group of people pushing these senseless ideals, you are correct in that we need someone or something to hold the "crazies" in check.
Funny it is how the crazy people seem to be the ones most motivated to get political office.
On the post: Universal's War On Redbox Continues
Re:
Seriously, though...I think I have to stand back like Mike is and shake my head at the blatent stupidity and lack of common sense of the people who are running these corporations...What are they thinking? That they might get lucky and escape getting sued? Doesn't ANYONE think about the long-term anymore? Or has our long-term just become the quarterly report to the investors?
On the post: Ubisoft's Passive-Aggressive Decision To Drop DRM
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Ubisoft's Passive-Aggressive Decision To Drop DRM
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Atari Backs Away From Davenport Lyons, As More Innocent Threat Letters Are Uncovered
New to the extortion game are we?
On the post: McCain Responds To Jackson Browne Lawsuit: Here's How Fair Use Works...
I am not a copyright supporter DESPITE attempting to remain legal in my actions
For the record, I do not and have not downloaded ANY song that I do not own the CD for. I do not play games that I do not have legal licenses for.
That being said. I DO NOT play ANY games or listen to ANY music from original media. I have been subject to far too many broken and scratched CDs, DVDs, video tapes, etc. It is well within my rights as a consumer to protect my investment. It is well within my rights to keep a valued chair in my house from damage by covering it with a tarp or such, but why is it not within my rights to prevent damage to my license (the physical CD/DVD itself) by backing it up. Some older software used CD-keys...that was the license...Microsoft still uses a key as its license...so, it's not a big deal to use the original because they are replaceable for only costs of shipping. However, for most digital media that comes with the purchase of a physical DVD or CD, that disk IS the license itself. It is NOT replaceable should it be damaged...so I take it upon myself to protect my investment.
That being said, the real reason that I do not support current copyright law is because I can only see it as the taking of rights from common people. That bothers me. You CANNOT legislate morality/ethics. It NEVER works. And, to top it all off, it ALWAYS backfires...inevitably, someone comes along who is willing to twist the law to work for them...You do NOT want to become the enabler(fair warning to fundamentalists of any kind...).
I read this site because I see a group of people who clearly want to defend their rights and I am glad to see that some people here do stand up for others' rights. No matter what I feel is right or wrong, nothing comes from forcing someone to live the same way that I do...it only causes more problems.
On the post: Yes, Actually, Music Can Be Free
Re: I like indie bands too... but how long can it last?
Being a musician myself, it's easy to see why you would make these assumptions...a lot of my friends fall into this trap I feel also.
(1)The first assumption you make is that all music is created as part of a business. If you can't see the error in this, then, my guess is that you probably never learned much about your history of music either...yes...a good number of musicians DID make a living in some way out of their music, but the vast majority of musicians throughout history did not, and some of the most influential were never successful in their own lifetimes.
(2) Assuming that we are now only looking at the portion of musicians who enter music to MAKE MONEY, we now run across the assumption that many musicians make (in fact, many people period make) - the idea that they DESERVE money. Tell me this, if you hired me to wash your windows and I didn't fulfill my end of the contract (did a crappy job...i.e. they weren't clean), do I really deserve my pay? While not a perfect analogy...my point is that your willingness to pay me is affected by how I perform my wage-garnering task. In the music industry, the audience "pays" the performer/musician/music-writer for the entertainment provided. If you do a crappy job, the audience may pay you the first time (i.e. go to a concert or buy a cd), but they are not as likely to pay you again (from my analogy, you would probably fire me for my window-cleaning job).
(3) The third assumption you make, that you should be reimbursed with money is a finer line to tread. This one is harder to put into plain speech, so if anyone else who sees where I'm coming from on this can help me out, I would appreciate it. Basically, the idea is that you can be reimbursed for your music making talents in many different ways: money, fans, fame, the opportunity to perform again (most people just assume that they SHOULD perform again...have any of you ever watched American Idol???!? Not everyone can make it...that's reality. Not even everyone that's incredibly talented makes it in real life).
(4) This one is closely related to number 3...There are thousands of people out there in the world who work 2-3 crappy jobs just to get by in life. Since when do you DESERVE to only need to work one job yourself to live? Sometimes life is hard. Get over it. I have a nice cushy job that I work 9-5 for five days a week. I just graduated from college last May. But I grew up on the streets. I had to bust my butt to get to this level in life. As much as I might want to be a professional musician, it might not work out for me. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try. I just had hard circumstances. But thinking that you DESERVE my money is not going to make me one of your fans...and if I'm not your fan, you won't be getting my money no matter how ridiculously talented you are.
Until the babies in today's culture learn to grow up and actually EARN the money their money with hard work and stop crying when the wind doesn't blow their way, they are going to miss the opportunities that pass them by...and be left crying about pirating in their wake.
On the post: Lori Drew's Lawyers Worried About Finding Jury That Hasn't Prejudged Drew
Abuse of government
til then, we have to look at things like this and depress...
On the post: Patent Battles Focusing On Third Parties To Push For Settlements
Trolls
@ Woody - I think you've missed the whole point. Microsoft IS stepping up to the plate for its customers. The difference is that Microsoft is doing this in a manner that it can control and possibly win rather than just caving in to WebXchange and just dishing out some money to wash everything over.
On the post: Argentinian Celebrities Succeed In Forcing Search Engines To Block Search Results On Their Name
Pate Valle
Still, it does make me laugh...I struggle sometimes to speak at a lower vocabulary level in order to communicate with those around me. It is a remarkably sad commentary that the posession of a strong vocabulary is so rare...
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