You're not going to climb down off that jackass of yours are you?
Even though Mike didn't think there was much to say about Lowery's screed others did and people with deep roots in the recording industry have all said Lowery is so full of it his eyes are brown.
So off you go join Lowery in the pond he's swimming in. Enjoy the company.
I'll restate what's already been said here, what Craigslist is doing makes no sense much less being neighbourly. As it stands many people find Craigslist hard to use and to actually find the things they're looking for. Kijii, on the other hand, is well organized and it's easy to find things there which results in more sales for the person selling things.
I know this from personal experience as a seller. Stuff I list on Kijii gets a response in, at most, a day and is usually sold before the week is out. It takes, at least, three times as long on Craigslist because people just can't find it unless they're Craigslist veterans.
Closing down apps or sites that make Craigslist easier to use and actually drives traffic to them is just plain dumb. Then again they have the right to be stupid. As with Kijii others are already moving onto their turf simply by being easier for the buyer and seller to use.
It's an interesting link, though if intended to be shilling it rather misses the target by one or two country miles.
Yes, Wikipedia traffic is an accurate predictor of future sales but so is file sharing according to the slides shown. The trends are showing and anyone surprised that sales are moving heavily from CDs to digital sales of albums or singles, tracks in the slides lingo, hasn't been paying attention the last few years. The securing the future slide is so full of marketing-speak that it's hard to tell if the recording industry will actually do anything remotely like what's outlined there or continue the bully boy role.
The more important link is contained inside the story: http://www.futurehitdna.com/is-stealing-music-really-the-problem/
which directly addresses David Lowrey's screed. While Frank agrees with Lowrey on his ethical argument that spending more to protect third world migrant workers while denying musicians an income is hypocritical he ends up saying that what Lowery has to say doesn't really matter all that much. The reality is that neither he or his band(s) register with the people Lowery is trying to reach.
"The biggest problem that David Lowery has to face is exemplified by Zach, the 24 year old New Media indie label guy at the end of Bob Lefsetz’ response post to Lowery’s “screed”. When told by a co-worker that David is the founder of Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker, he replies, “Not sure what either of those are…”" In short, he doesn't matter a jot.
In the meantime major labels are fattening themselves up, according to Frank, marketing the hell out of digital singles. They might not get the internet but they do get marketing.
The link to Frank's post on "Is Stealing Music Really the Problem is well worth reading whether or not you agree with him."
True as that may be, I remember much the same when I was growing up in the 1950s except that both the kids and adults in the cartoons were Disnified cute little animals. Warner Bro's stable (Bugs Bunny) did the same though not as "nicely". There were lots of other examples on 1950's and early 1960's TV.
Though I'm hard pressed to think of death threats as the near ultimate example of bullying. Y'Know, the solve everything from the barrel of a gun.
As for the kids themselves, if their upbringing can't overcome a tv series there's something very wrong here and it's certainly not the tv show.
If you are creating and performing music one way or another you're also an entertainer. If Billy doesn't like that too too bad.
I don't know many people that would deny that Glen Gould was an artist. Before going further I have to admit that I'm one of them. He was also a top flight entertainer. A bit rare in the Classical field though not non-exsistant. It is possible to be both though not at the same time as loudly proclaiming that you got into music to ba an auteur in a way that indicates that the word means sitting on one's fat rear end.
If that's what is going to kill mass culture in North America then I have to admit I'm all for it.
It goes something like this if I recall:
"The lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."
As for finding a lawyer to with rights to practice on the jurisdiction where they live lt's remember this thing has gone international as contained in Mike's post where Modelista lives is Sweden.
I feel incredibly safe is saying that Carreon hasn't been called to the bar i Sweden.
Prefab music stars have existed since the appearance of Top 40 AM radio, perhaps all the way back to the late 20s and 1930s. The Dirty 30s for sure as people were seeking out distractions from their daily lives. In the Great Depression it was movies that fabricated the stars rather than radio which still, largely, featured live music either on networks or local bands on local stations. This is where the people of those days got their superstars like Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra. Incredibly talented to be sure but they were both pop stars not avant guarde or anything close to it.
Hendrix fell into a period of time where the blues and blues derivatives were popular and highly influential on the future of rock and, to a lesser degree, country. Still, the first single I heard from the Jimi Hendrix Experience was "The Wind Cries Mary" which I thought then and still think sucks. Then came "All Along The Watchtower" and that's when the WOW hit.
The point being that it doesn't really matter who the "gatekeeper" is it's record sales and connecting with fans that counts. Hendrix could certainly do the latter live better than most which is probably why the live version I heard of "The Wind Cries Mary" to my ears was/is light years better than the studio version.
Like it or not, the great unwashed and uncultured DO set the cultural norms for any 20th and 21st century time period you cane to mention.
As for Corgan having to "beg" for attention that's what he had/had an agent for. And that's what record companies are allegedly there for except that till now they've decided to largely opt out of the Internet. And if Corgan feels that Smashing Pumpkins fans are a bother and that he wants to be an auteur by all means be one. There's nothing stopping him unless it means work which it seems he's allergic to.
Culture is always being born, changing and dying. A culture trapped in amber is a dead culture, as dead as the insect trapped in it. Yet that is what Lindvall and Corgan seem to want.
She'd already said that she was leaving before the "dumb girl" remark got tossed out which I didn't like. Actually I hope Audrey comes back. While I disagree with her once she gets by the "copying is theft" line she makes a whole lot of sense. Heck it's tossed around enough that it's easy to start there.
Which is more than Lowery does. Filled with factual and moral errors as his posts often are.
And you're right about the censorship Lowrey's site. It's rampant.
No one is saying artists shouldn't be paid. Of course you need to fit that one here even if no one has said that here. You'll read it in so I'll end that little point there.
What you won't admit or recognize is that the market has changed traditional distribution companies haven't reacted except, perhaps, to cry wolf. I realize that you're married to that model and that's all well and good but you don't have a monopoly on truth. Nor does Mike, nor do I.
That your thinking is flawed is shown by this little strawman (or strawperson or strawartist) you posted on your own site:
"Per capita spending on music is 47% lower than it was in 1973!!"
Pay close attention to the date. This was the height of the Boomers moving through the market, jobs, no kids, mortgages and all that good stuff so we had a good whack of disposable income. A great deal of that went on music be it recordings, concerts or sound systems.
Now, pay close attention to the year this year. We Boomers are retiring en masse, a lot of us still have children at home, more of us are in debt than our parents were at the same age, something the 2008 crash didn't help. I could go on but even if you don't get my drift most will.
We don't spend the money on music we did in 1973, in fact considerably less. That's for any number of reasons though the main one is that we're just not as interested in it as we were in 1973. That and we've got almost all the music we're interested in already on LP or CD. We don't attend many concerts, at least of the stadium variety, anymore either. That exit from the market alone is enough to account for almost all of that decline.
One more thing. As has been widely noted the 1990s featured a barren period where CDs would be released and out of 12 songs only on or two would be worth a damn. Don't even start to tell me that isn't true. I experienced it and wasted money experiencing it. That marked my exit from the CD market. Permanently. I don't blame the artists for most of that so that leaves the recording industry. That's also the reason a great number of my peers abandoned the CD market.
One more thing. Almost all of my peers have no idea where to find The Pirate Bay much less use it Wisely, considering their tech and Internet savvy, they've bought into the notion that pirated music can do horrid things to their computers. When I ask close to 100% go to iTunes or Amazon to get music from the Net.
So let's admit that the Boomers are no longer anywhere near the market influence we were in 1973.
While I'm saddened by the two suicides you mention to blame all of that on the decline in spending on music. As you mention they both suffered from addiction and depression as well as a corresponding decline in income. As a recovering addict/alcoholic I have to remind you that a decline in income is a consequence of addiction. Depression is a consequence of addiction. As the disease progresses that's normal. Particularly if a musician shows up at a gig stoned or drunk unable to perform, a recording session and so on. I wish with all my heart that they didn't choose suicide as the "way out" but I know that feeling and how tempting it is.
Your bringing them into this discussion is cheap emotionalism and total ignorance. It does nothing at all to honour their memory or musicianship. You had nothing else to say to you reached for that to say "see, this is what happens!".
Is it ok to rip off artists? No.
Is it ok for an industry not to respond to changing markets? No.
On the latter that path leads to the death or deep decline of the industry. And, in this case, what you call piracy. People will get the music one way or another. And until iTunes and Amazon started retailing "singles" there was no option because the industry sure didn't.
What music I get I pay for. For me it's that simple unless I have the artist's permission to go ahead and download. To me it's amazing how many do even if it's just a song or two.
As for a lawyer named Careon making a fool of himself that has nothing to do with the merits of his points it has everything to do with how he's behaving around the issue.
Sort of like you do. Don't worry, with practice he'll get almost as good(?) at is as you are.
Most of the time I use Skype it's to talk to my partner when she's out of town on business.
We don't need ads to start our conversations. After we get the normal stuff out of the way like the weather, how the cats are, when I need to cut the lawn again and all that we spend the next 58 minutes of our talk on other things.
Cold water we don't need. And, of course, the display ads will autostart at a volume that airports can't match.
Need it or not a shared cold shower we'll get.
Conversation ender will be more like it.
Just what is it ad people can't get it through their thick, thick skulls that an ad is an ad not something else. And that there are times people just don't want to see, hear, watch them.
Those words were descriptive in those days as were words like tit. As you say, cuss words that shocked back then don't raise an eyebrow anymore in most places.
Sort of like the shocked response of young male English speakers from North America when the nice daughter of the family at the B&B asking you when you want to knock her up in the morning. ;-) Translated that means "wake you up".
It's one of the things that fascinates me the most about English is how quickly words and phrases can change their meaning and, at times, how quickly that happens. while it's something those of us brought up in the language are used to and take in stride. Newcomers to the language have a hell of a time with that.
I'd never thought of using books as a way of preserving the lexicon of the time but it makes perfect sense. For a story to sell well it needs to speak to English speakers in the lexicon being used at the time.
Even more to the popular songs of any given period which is why I'd love to see a similar study done on song lyrics from, oh, say, 1940 to 1980 to see who words and phrases changed in that period.
We're so used to Shakespeare that we forget that he invented words as he went along if he couldn't find one that fit. Which may be why 500 years later studying Shakespeare by reading his plays is hopeless while to see a performance we suddenly understand a whole lot of things we didn't just be reading it.
I do wonder about the phrase "on hold" slowly becoming "on ignore" mostly when confronted by one of those damnable choice trees that take forever to get through if we wait that long.
And let's not get into dialect in this language. :-)
On the post: Former Righthaven CEO Secretly Hires Lawyers For The Company He No Longer Has Anything To Do With
Re:
On the post: Some Facts & Insights Into The Whole Discussion Of 'Ethics' And Music Business Models
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Even though Mike didn't think there was much to say about Lowery's screed others did and people with deep roots in the recording industry have all said Lowery is so full of it his eyes are brown.
So off you go join Lowery in the pond he's swimming in. Enjoy the company.
And the smell.
On the post: Jimmy Wales Campaigns To Stop The Despicable Attempt To Extradite & Try Richard O 'Dwyer
On the post: Unfortunate: Craigslist Continues To Be A Walled Garden
I know this from personal experience as a seller. Stuff I list on Kijii gets a response in, at most, a day and is usually sold before the week is out. It takes, at least, three times as long on Craigslist because people just can't find it unless they're Craigslist veterans.
Closing down apps or sites that make Craigslist easier to use and actually drives traffic to them is just plain dumb. Then again they have the right to be stupid. As with Kijii others are already moving onto their turf simply by being easier for the buyer and seller to use.
On the post: Funniest/Most Insightful Comments Of The Week At Techdirt
Re:
Yes, Wikipedia traffic is an accurate predictor of future sales but so is file sharing according to the slides shown. The trends are showing and anyone surprised that sales are moving heavily from CDs to digital sales of albums or singles, tracks in the slides lingo, hasn't been paying attention the last few years. The securing the future slide is so full of marketing-speak that it's hard to tell if the recording industry will actually do anything remotely like what's outlined there or continue the bully boy role.
The more important link is contained inside the story:
http://www.futurehitdna.com/is-stealing-music-really-the-problem/
which directly addresses David Lowrey's screed. While Frank agrees with Lowrey on his ethical argument that spending more to protect third world migrant workers while denying musicians an income is hypocritical he ends up saying that what Lowery has to say doesn't really matter all that much. The reality is that neither he or his band(s) register with the people Lowery is trying to reach.
"The biggest problem that David Lowery has to face is exemplified by Zach, the 24 year old New Media indie label guy at the end of Bob Lefsetz’ response post to Lowery’s “screed”. When told by a co-worker that David is the founder of Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker, he replies, “Not sure what either of those are…”" In short, he doesn't matter a jot.
In the meantime major labels are fattening themselves up, according to Frank, marketing the hell out of digital singles. They might not get the internet but they do get marketing.
The link to Frank's post on "Is Stealing Music Really the Problem is well worth reading whether or not you agree with him."
On the post: Epic Win/Fail: Bullied Bus Monitor Sparks Overwhelming Support, But Also Death Threats To Kids
Re: Re: Re:
Though I'm hard pressed to think of death threats as the near ultimate example of bullying. Y'Know, the solve everything from the barrel of a gun.
As for the kids themselves, if their upbringing can't overcome a tv series there's something very wrong here and it's certainly not the tv show.
On the post: The New Elitism: File Sharing 'Created' Pop Music And Removing Gatekeepers Is 'Killing Culture'
Re: Re: Re: Ah come on Billy!
I don't know many people that would deny that Glen Gould was an artist. Before going further I have to admit that I'm one of them. He was also a top flight entertainer. A bit rare in the Classical field though not non-exsistant. It is possible to be both though not at the same time as loudly proclaiming that you got into music to ba an auteur in a way that indicates that the word means sitting on one's fat rear end.
If that's what is going to kill mass culture in North America then I have to admit I'm all for it.
On the post: Charles Carreon Keeps Digging: Promises To Subpoena Twitter & Ars Technica To Track Down Parody Account
Re: Re: Re:
"The lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."
As for finding a lawyer to with rights to practice on the jurisdiction where they live lt's remember this thing has gone international as contained in Mike's post where Modelista lives is Sweden.
I feel incredibly safe is saying that Carreon hasn't been called to the bar i Sweden.
On the post: Gym Allegedly Threatens To Call Police On Blogger For Blogging That Its Prices Were A Bit High
Re: Business Opportunity
On the post: Gym Allegedly Threatens To Call Police On Blogger For Blogging That Its Prices Were A Bit High
Re: Re: Re:
I'd rather have the carry on gang's films of poorly confined booies in my head for the weekend than Kansas :)
On the post: The New Elitism: File Sharing 'Created' Pop Music And Removing Gatekeepers Is 'Killing Culture'
Re: Culture death as harmful???
Hendrix fell into a period of time where the blues and blues derivatives were popular and highly influential on the future of rock and, to a lesser degree, country. Still, the first single I heard from the Jimi Hendrix Experience was "The Wind Cries Mary" which I thought then and still think sucks. Then came "All Along The Watchtower" and that's when the WOW hit.
The point being that it doesn't really matter who the "gatekeeper" is it's record sales and connecting with fans that counts. Hendrix could certainly do the latter live better than most which is probably why the live version I heard of "The Wind Cries Mary" to my ears was/is light years better than the studio version.
Like it or not, the great unwashed and uncultured DO set the cultural norms for any 20th and 21st century time period you cane to mention.
As for Corgan having to "beg" for attention that's what he had/had an agent for. And that's what record companies are allegedly there for except that till now they've decided to largely opt out of the Internet. And if Corgan feels that Smashing Pumpkins fans are a bother and that he wants to be an auteur by all means be one. There's nothing stopping him unless it means work which it seems he's allergic to.
Culture is always being born, changing and dying. A culture trapped in amber is a dead culture, as dead as the insect trapped in it. Yet that is what Lindvall and Corgan seem to want.
On the post: David Lowery Wants A Pony
Re: Techdirt vs Thetrichordist
Which is more than Lowery does. Filled with factual and moral errors as his posts often are.
And you're right about the censorship Lowrey's site. It's rampant.
On the post: David Lowery Wants A Pony
Re: Re: Re: Cue first troll in...
What you won't admit or recognize is that the market has changed traditional distribution companies haven't reacted except, perhaps, to cry wolf. I realize that you're married to that model and that's all well and good but you don't have a monopoly on truth. Nor does Mike, nor do I.
That your thinking is flawed is shown by this little strawman (or strawperson or strawartist) you posted on your own site:
Pay close attention to the date. This was the height of the Boomers moving through the market, jobs, no kids, mortgages and all that good stuff so we had a good whack of disposable income. A great deal of that went on music be it recordings, concerts or sound systems.
Now, pay close attention to the year this year. We Boomers are retiring en masse, a lot of us still have children at home, more of us are in debt than our parents were at the same age, something the 2008 crash didn't help. I could go on but even if you don't get my drift most will.
We don't spend the money on music we did in 1973, in fact considerably less. That's for any number of reasons though the main one is that we're just not as interested in it as we were in 1973. That and we've got almost all the music we're interested in already on LP or CD. We don't attend many concerts, at least of the stadium variety, anymore either. That exit from the market alone is enough to account for almost all of that decline.
One more thing. As has been widely noted the 1990s featured a barren period where CDs would be released and out of 12 songs only on or two would be worth a damn. Don't even start to tell me that isn't true. I experienced it and wasted money experiencing it. That marked my exit from the CD market. Permanently. I don't blame the artists for most of that so that leaves the recording industry. That's also the reason a great number of my peers abandoned the CD market.
One more thing. Almost all of my peers have no idea where to find The Pirate Bay much less use it Wisely, considering their tech and Internet savvy, they've bought into the notion that pirated music can do horrid things to their computers. When I ask close to 100% go to iTunes or Amazon to get music from the Net.
So let's admit that the Boomers are no longer anywhere near the market influence we were in 1973.
While I'm saddened by the two suicides you mention to blame all of that on the decline in spending on music. As you mention they both suffered from addiction and depression as well as a corresponding decline in income. As a recovering addict/alcoholic I have to remind you that a decline in income is a consequence of addiction. Depression is a consequence of addiction. As the disease progresses that's normal. Particularly if a musician shows up at a gig stoned or drunk unable to perform, a recording session and so on. I wish with all my heart that they didn't choose suicide as the "way out" but I know that feeling and how tempting it is.
Your bringing them into this discussion is cheap emotionalism and total ignorance. It does nothing at all to honour their memory or musicianship. You had nothing else to say to you reached for that to say "see, this is what happens!".
Is it ok to rip off artists? No.
Is it ok for an industry not to respond to changing markets? No.
On the latter that path leads to the death or deep decline of the industry. And, in this case, what you call piracy. People will get the music one way or another. And until iTunes and Amazon started retailing "singles" there was no option because the industry sure didn't.
What music I get I pay for. For me it's that simple unless I have the artist's permission to go ahead and download. To me it's amazing how many do even if it's just a song or two.
As for a lawyer named Careon making a fool of himself that has nothing to do with the merits of his points it has everything to do with how he's behaving around the issue.
Sort of like you do. Don't worry, with practice he'll get almost as good(?) at is as you are.
On the post: US Invites Mexico, Canada To Join TPP Negotiations But With Less Power
I wonder what we had to give up to get our seat at the table as a junior partner who sits in the corner and shuts up.
"Oh Canada, glorious and murmer...." The word has disappeared from that line in our anthem now.
On the post: Because We All Know What Skype Was Missing Was Intrusive Advertising, Microsoft Has Decided To Add It
I don't need no "conversation starters"
We don't need ads to start our conversations. After we get the normal stuff out of the way like the weather, how the cats are, when I need to cut the lawn again and all that we spend the next 58 minutes of our talk on other things.
Cold water we don't need. And, of course, the display ads will autostart at a volume that airports can't match.
Need it or not a shared cold shower we'll get.
Conversation ender will be more like it.
Just what is it ad people can't get it through their thick, thick skulls that an ad is an ad not something else. And that there are times people just don't want to see, hear, watch them.
Text ad we could live with. Hear that Skype?
Good thing there's an alternative.
On the post: Matthew Inman To Charles Carreon: Take Time Off, Stop Saying Crazy Sh*t To Journalists, Calm Down
Re: I'm waiting for the film
On the post: Matthew Inman To Charles Carreon: Take Time Off, Stop Saying Crazy Sh*t To Journalists, Calm Down
Re: Re:
And Carreon is likely to end up as carrion if he doesnt' stop digging.
Nice change in emphasis that we can't do with Streisand Effect. :-)
On the post: Google Books Data Mining Reveals Mad Men's Big Historical Flaw: Business Lingo
Re:
On the post: Google Books Data Mining Reveals Mad Men's Big Historical Flaw: Business Lingo
Re: I'd like to see a similar study of "Deadwood"
Sort of like the shocked response of young male English speakers from North America when the nice daughter of the family at the B&B asking you when you want to knock her up in the morning. ;-) Translated that means "wake you up".
On the post: Google Books Data Mining Reveals Mad Men's Big Historical Flaw: Business Lingo
Forever morphable English -- And it's free!!
I'd never thought of using books as a way of preserving the lexicon of the time but it makes perfect sense. For a story to sell well it needs to speak to English speakers in the lexicon being used at the time.
Even more to the popular songs of any given period which is why I'd love to see a similar study done on song lyrics from, oh, say, 1940 to 1980 to see who words and phrases changed in that period.
We're so used to Shakespeare that we forget that he invented words as he went along if he couldn't find one that fit. Which may be why 500 years later studying Shakespeare by reading his plays is hopeless while to see a performance we suddenly understand a whole lot of things we didn't just be reading it.
I do wonder about the phrase "on hold" slowly becoming "on ignore" mostly when confronted by one of those damnable choice trees that take forever to get through if we wait that long.
And let's not get into dialect in this language. :-)
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