Epic Win/Fail: Bullied Bus Monitor Sparks Overwhelming Support, But Also Death Threats To Kids
from the best-of-the-internet,-worst-of-the-internet dept
A few years ago, I noted the seeming irony in the fact that there appeared to be a decent amount of overlap between groups of people doing amazing altruistic things on sites like Reddit, while also doing amazingly troll-tastic things in places like /b/. Groups getting together to "do something" are a powerful force, and often are a powerful force for good. But they can also get out of hand, and turn into questionable mob-like vigilante-ism. However, it's not often that you see both such forces come together in the same story. However, that appears to be the case with the amazing story concerning upstate NY school bus monitor, Karen Klein. If you've been buried under a rock somewhere, Klein, a 68-year-old grandmother, has a low-paying job as a school bus monitor for a middle school in upstate NY (Greece, near Rochester). Middle school kids can be incredibly cruel, and a group of kids spent a bus ride mercilessly mocking Klein and filming the interaction. Someone else saw the video being passed around on Facebook and posted it to YouTube, where it quickly racked up millions of views, with tons of downvotes. The video is heart-wrenching for the cruelty from the boys in question. Just horrifying:However, in response to this, someone set up an IndieGoGo campaign to raise money for Karen to go on vacation. And, wow, did the internet ever come through in a massive outpouring of altruism, donating hundreds of thousands of dollars in a day. As of this writing, it's already around half a million and there's still nearly a month to go. That's going to be quite a vacation.
Cue tons of great stories about how wonderful the internet can be.
But... then there's the flipside of it. The part where tons of people on the internet who find out about this story then barrage the school, the kids and anyone they think is related to this with nasty calls and emails including death threats:
The names of some of the alleged perpetrators — all juveniles who have yet to be charged with any crimes — and their parents and details about where they live ended up online. And since Wednesday, they’ve been barraged by death threats and harassing phone calls.Karen herself has come out to say:
Greece police Capt. Steve Chatterton said Thursday that someone even made a false 911 call claiming there were people being held hostage inside one of the students’ homes. He said officers have been assigned to run special patrols down the youths’ streets to ensure their safety.
“We have a cellphone of one of the boys and he’s received more than 1,000 missed calls and more than 1,000 text messages threatening him,” he said. “Threats to overcome threats do no good.”
“This is going too far,” she said. “This is no better than the kids who did that on the bus.”Exactly. If you're so upset by people acting totally obnoxiously to someone, there are a lot better ways to express yourself than to call them with a death threat.
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Filed Under: altruism, bullying, death threats, karen klein, steve chatterton
Companies: 4chan, indiegogo, reddit
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I have no idea if anything else came of it though.
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Wiser parenting? Maybe, maybe not. The thing about kids is that they are their own people and sometimes despite being taught better, they sometimes make poor choices and do stupid things. This is especially true during the middle school/high school ages when they think they know better than everyone else.
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This may be my inner old man talking about the good old days, but it seems to me that things such as Disney channel nowadays are becoming more and more about portraying the children as the masterminds behind schemes and the parents and grown-ups as the bumbling idiots that the kids are always "putting one over on" with every episode. It's just teaching kids to have no respect for their "stupid" parents and grownups and makes the little monsters think they're smarter than they really are.
Cartoon Network isn't much better, with easy-access programs like "Chowder" teaching kids to lie, cheat, steal and be gluttonous.
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Though I'm hard pressed to think of death threats as the near ultimate example of bullying. Y'Know, the solve everything from the barrel of a gun.
As for the kids themselves, if their upbringing can't overcome a tv series there's something very wrong here and it's certainly not the tv show.
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http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/students-apologize-to-bullied-bus-mon itor/
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“I started to cry. I told him I couldn’t believe he would do something like this. It was pretty emotional,” father Robert Helms said."
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/jas-reactions-karen-klein-159987845.html
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Children, especially boys, need strong authority figures. When a father talks to his son, breathless and weepy, about how "he couldn't believe he would do something like this", instead of responding strongly, sternly and with undoubted authority, the kids learn that dad is a weakling and can be taken advantage of.
I bet that father's kid still has his cell phone and computer, and only had is iPad and XBox privileges taken away.
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now, Some of the issue here is that there is a strong undercurrent in the society of large parts of the anglo-sphere (at least) that expressing such empathy is a sign of weakness, and Because of that it undermines the father's position as an authority. were that not the case it would be less of an issue.
but again, the problem is not that the father feels empathy for the woman and finds the whole thing upsetting. it is that his response When Dealing With the Kid about it, is to break down crying. to the sort of people who would do this thing in the first place, who are undoubtedly bullies, that is a Weakness. which undermines the parent's capacity as an authority figure to enforce, or even encourage, behavioral change.
(this is one of several reasons, incidentally, that the old apprenticeship systems back a century or two used to work so well for society as a whole, as well as passing on skills and such. it placed that primary authority with the aprentice's master. the emotional attachments were quite different, and thus so were the reactions. kids (boys at least) that age tend to be far more inclined to listen to someone who has authority over them for an actual Reason, as they see it (the one teaching them the skills they need to earn a living, in this case) than to their parents, who they are largely trying to find an identity independent of, for one.)
blah. hopefully my point is intelligible, i'm not good at explaining this stuff at the best of times. (and this is not the best of times for me.)
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You do not have to be a whiny little emo-pansy to be a decent human being. Neither does being a whiny little emo-pansy make you a better human being. It only makes you a weak one.
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Good!!!
And to the parents that raised these disrespectful pieces of shit, its a wake up call that little Jimmy & Jane need more of something they are not providing. Possibly a swift kick in the ass.
Young children and the elderly are off limits.
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Yet here are TechDirt there are links galore.
No wonder the news business is in trouble? They keep ignoring that the internet exists even when they're reporting on it.
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Re: Excellent point
AND as a bonus, the community often adds even more related material in the comments.
btw I'm listening to the video while typing this and I seriously cannot believe that middle school kids would behave like this with an adult. I'm not so sure that taking corporal punishment out of the school system was a good idea.
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Re: Re: Excellent point
Mr Ouch. It was the name of a paddle Mrs. Churnoff used to keep us in line. Needless to say, we all behaved in Mrs. Churnoff's class.
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Re: Re: Excellent point
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Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
> inured to pain. It accomplishes nothing.
I feel fairly certain that tanning the hides of these young 'men' would result in them never harassing that woman again.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
There's a reason why children who are "whipped" go through rebellious streaks, and frequently abuse their parents in turn.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
> and vengeful (and potentially violent)
> against those that did the "tanning."
Then they have even deeper seated psychological pathologies than are already on display in that video.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
i understand why corporal punishment was removed. far too many people with the above issue thinking the former was the later getting into a position to act on it.
but the moralistic IDIOTS who keep assuming the latter is the former obviously managed to avoid the ENTIRE BLOODY HISTORY OF THE HUMAN RACE where there is MOUNTAINS of evidence that this is untrue.
the simple fact is that it requires balance. such punishments should not be the first recourse, there must be rules and a process. it must be known ahead of time what actions will lead to such punishment. such punishment must be used Every time it is warranted by such rules and process and Never when it is not, and such punishment must be neither excessive given the actions taken, nor so weak as to be irrelevant.
i'm going to be honest: the public shaming and persecution by undisciplined students and ignorant staff unwilling to check allegations and quite willing to punish victims, not for fighting back, but for even Being there to be attacked, or for missing school due to illness when said staff are unwilling to provide materials to allow learning to continue in the mean time that I experienced are, generally speaking, FAR more damaging to a kid's well being than the strap, properly employed, ever was.
and children go through rebellious streaks Anyway, if their personality is so inclined, 'whipped' or not.
as for 'and abuse their parents in turn' that may be true in some cases. probably cases where actual abuse took place. it's also true in cases where no such punishment was used At All. correlation at best. again, you are conflating physical consequences with abuse, By Default, which is in error.
(and no, such punishments are no longer legal here. hell, the legislation that made that change recently was a prime example of such confusion, to the point where Pulling a kid out of the way of an Oncoming Truck as classified as abuse and, when this was pointed out, the morons pushing for the law said it was up to the police to decide whether to prosecute or not. even if physical punishment is not involved, That is a system with arbritary and unreliable enforcement and punishments all out of proportion to the so called 'crime', leading to it generally being ignored. it doesn't help prevent child abuse, which there were already laws against and which those who were prone to abusing children were already ignoring. it just makes good parents criminals as well.)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
i like and respect my mother. we get along pretty well.
my father, on the other hand, would respond in an overly emotional manner, often accusing me of infractions which did not take place, getting into rants and screaming at me over perceived disrespect when i tried to point out such errors, making unreasonable demands of me given my age and health, assigning arbitrary punishments for non-specific lengths of time (all such punishments ended when he forgot about them, basically)...
which eventually pushed me to the point where, lacking other options, i lashed out and attacked him. (doing no damage or anything. i was still a kid) which lead to him ranting on about calling the police, which he never did.
now, a while after, my parents split up. events transpired such that i eventually went to live with my mum full time.
i'm 25 now. these days my dad and i get on reasonably well most of the time. (he's a lot happier and less paranoid these days, which helps, he has no authority over me anymore, which helps a Lot, and we don't live in the same house, which also helps.) ... but i still don't really respect him that much, if at all, beyond the basic respect i show all human beings as individuals when they're not actively causing me grief.
make what you will of that. I conclude that being reasonable and just is a hell of a lot more important (and by definition non-abusive) than not being physical.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
Many parents today I've noticed tend to have 1 of 2 reactions to their kids' misbehaviour. One is to (over)react to the embarrassment it causes. Meaning misbehaviour that doesn't embarrass goes unchecked or less punished.
The other is to punish by how much inconvenience it causes - this is much deeper problem. Rather than explaining to little Johnny or Sally what they should or shouldn't do, the parent waits until they've broken something or caused some other inconvenience then act swiftly and angrily to stop them, but don't at any point explain why or what the child did.
In both cases the child learns that getting caught is the crime, rather than correct behaviour for the setting. It's quite sad to see this played out twice in the same family close to me through 2 generations.
Far too many parents just don't make enough time to parent - they don't even set boundaries, let alone take time to instruct their children in right and wrong.
Kids will test boundaries constantly; it's part of our human nature - a very good part of our human nature actually - but in kids it needs to be channeled into productive activity rather than into attention seeking.
It is unfortunately far too easy to push one out than to actually successfully raise a human being.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Excellent point
I didn't. Growing up, I only ever saw it out of children who were whipped. The more frequent the whippings, the worse the attitude.
You might be right, and there might be a reasonable amount of physical punishment one can give without crossing some line. Either way, though, it should be the parents doing it, not the schools.
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Unbelievable.
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Re: Unbelievable.
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Re: Re: Unbelievable.
that person would be convicted of assault.
funny that a few techdirt clicks land me here from a techdirt opinion critical of a ny proposed cyber-bulllying bill. much of the bill overreached, but one of its intents was to reduce "intimidation". intimidation is not just 'speech'.
in this case of the school bus chaperone: she's an adult, and what *adult* gives a flip when a few 10 year old 'tards' gab about adults? when at home, the brats probably imitate Rush Limbaugh or what's his name Hannity.
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Re: Unbelievable.
A memorized list of rules?
"Moral compass" is a mirage. What they lack is effective empathy. Treating people is not about some mythical moral compass but really just about treating them the way you'd like to be treated if you were them.
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Re: Re: Unbelievable.
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Wow, just wow
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Re: Wow, just wow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOsruiVUSQY
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Re: Wow, just wow
Democrats
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Re: Wow, just wow
Occupy Wall Street Types.
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Re: Re: Wow, just wow
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You being played ! open your eyes ffs
Occupy is apolitical, unlike you and your one-sided ramblings.
NEWSFLASH:
Your political ideology don't mean shit !
ALL the politicians have been bought by corporations and private interests.
Keep watching FOX news!
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Re: Wow, just wow
Living in their parents basement for life, as no one will hire them after seeing this video.
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Re: Wow, just wow
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If it worked for your aunt and uncle then that's great. They are on the correct path to raising respectful decent young adults.
"My sister is the same with her son, and while he's still a brat, he's relatively well behaved." - Um brat and relatively well behaved? Bouts of brattyness(I know I just made up a word grammar Nazis go away)are to be expected up until a certain age. By 6 or 7 though that shit needs to be squashed. Especially if it involves downright disrespect. No amount of time out at that point, IMHO, will correct that behavior.
Chronno, its time for me to be done work and go home to my little girl. You have a great weekend now. I am going to forget all this IP government corruption crap and have fun. I hope you can do the same. :)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Wow, just wow
There is more than one way to "squash" undesirable behavior, timeout is one, making the kid endure what he inflicted is another but it needs to be told before hand what it is for, lack of respect is a powerful thing as is ego and here goes an example, how intelligent are you if you cannot even beat 10 years old at their own game?
See there, that is a taunt and that would push some to find some ways to annoy the little brats in some form or another, when you take physical violence out of the equation you just get to find other ways to deal with it and there are many, this is not something novel it has been done before for centuries in other cultures.
The reason I am against physical contact for this is because of balance, the kids were able to humiliate someone using only words and so their punishment should be given in that same manner, you don't escalate things, some of them will break under the pressure and will try physical violence against someone at that point they should be met with a physical barrier that would remind them that escalating is not the proper response.
Make those kids walk on the shoes of their victim so they understand clearly why they shouldn't do that to another person, humiliate them so they understand why it is so horrible to do it to others.
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Re: Wow, just wow
The kids aren't even good at insulting. Swearing left and right and repeating the same poor insult over and over again. These kids give a bad name to bullies.
This stepped well over the line of bullying into harassment and should be treated as such (by the police, not a flash mob).
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These kids will now personally know the meaning of the phrase, "The worm has turned"
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Out of Control
I personally think that this lady should have been doing her job. Now she's going to get $500k to 1 million bucks! All for not performing her basic job duties.
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Re: Out of Control
Heaven forbid she tell one of the precious snowflakes to shut it, the parents would be screaming for her head.
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Re: Re: Out of Control
This. I have a relative that is a bus driver for a school district, and they are told that their job is to drive the bus. If anything interferes with that job, they are only to pull the bus over and contact the police department. Anything disciplinary is handled by the school's administration. They merely report the incident to the school and the school takes care of it. I suspect monitors do the same. In this day and age, to do anything else will likely land them, and the school district, in a lawsuit that removes them from their job and the money from their wallets. Thank the lawyers for that.
Just take a similar case here: Kid spits from a school bus, spittle lands on head of driver and daughter, mother says battery charge on kid is wrong. The details have yet to come out, but the story sounds really suspicious from the mother/kid's point, he didn't like gum so he spit it out the window. He had previously said to police, and others had confirmed it, that he was spitting at cars. The mother of the angel says the cops should be out getting the bad guys and leave her kid alone.
Most parents would discipline the hell out of their kids...if I was there, my father would kill me, if my mother didn't first. But in this day-and-age, some parents just want to be friends of their children and will let the kids get away with anything.
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Re: Re: Re: Out of Control
large parts of their 'job description' are the same, and as the kid becomes an adult they get closer, but they are NOT the same thing.
a friend is not an authority (except, perhaps, incidentally, due to other roles). a parent is.
there's more to it than that, of course, but that's the basic difference.
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the parents' concern is self-centered, but the concern is "family honor". they'd honor kill their kids if it were legal.
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i would expect their job to be to tell the bus driver to stop and to report such actions to the police so the schools/bus company can disclaim all responsibility for such actions.
basically discourage the behavior by increasing the odds of being caught, but that's about it.
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Re: Re: Out of Control
> their children are little monsters?
She has every right to tell a parent that. It's certainly not against the law or anything, and any arm of the government that tried to stop her or punish her for doing so would be violating *her* right to free speech.
I got into this same thing with a mother at a movie theater about a year ago. She brough her 5-year-old to an R-rated movie and the kid eventually got bored and started running up and down the aisle. When the mother did absolutely nothing to stop him, I told the kid to sit down and be quiet. The mother went absolutely apeshit. "You can't talk to to my child without my permission! I'm gonna call the cops and have you arrested for talking to my child without my permission!" Needless to say she didn't get very far with that.
There's no law that says you can't tell a kid to be quiet and there's no law that prohibits this woman from telling the parents what budding psychopaths their children are.
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> of a hissy fit over it to cause serious
> problems
Everything in life comes with tradeoffs, but the school would have a tough time of it if they tried to stifle the woman's right to speak just to mollify a parent whose nose is out of joint.
In fact, she'd be lucky if they did that. It'd be like winning the lottery for her. She would need that thankless bus monitor job anymore.
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Re: Out of Control
"Oh I'm fat am I? Well guess what: you're dad's an alcoholic and going to die of liver cirrhosis. And it's your fault too, because you drive him to drinking you little shit." Or something like that.
A bus monitor is nothing to kids. Middle Schoolers are insolent and know that they can do or say anything they want with no immediate consequence, and they love to take advantage of that. It's lord of the flies.
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Re: Re: Out of Control
but this demonstrates why the bus monitors should video this type of behavior.
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Re: Out of Control
By doing what, exactly ?
She could tell them to stop. How effective would that have been ?
If she yells at them, she and school get sued by parents who's precious little tykes would NEVER do such a thing.
Should he have physically tried to make them stop ?
How would that not end in a lawsuit ?
There really isn't anything she COULD do but sit there and take it, which she did, and did a better job than I could have.
I wish her all the best and ENJOY that money. She earned it, deserves it.
Tell me what YOU think she could have done ?
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Re: Re: Out of Control
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I wouldn't have, thus blowing your whole argument and personal slam of yourself out of the water.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Out of Control
Can't touch them, you're not trained and raising hands on them could result in legal problems. Police have the training that gives them the necessary authority but calling them is often seen as an overreaction, what, the school can't handle a bunch of childish temper tantrums without needing the police? What kinda school is this? and if they call the parents how long will it take their parents to get there and do something meaningful?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Out of Control
I am not sure why that guy comes in here and has nothing to add other than slamming the "Techdirt community".
Besides, if there was no video, I certainly wouldn't be accusing the woman/school of overreacting by calling the police. I wasn't there, and I don't know what happened. I do know that no matter what happened, unless I knew what happened, I wouldn't be jumping on them for overreacting, thus nullifying his statement that the entire "Techdirt community" would complain about the school overreacting.
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Re: Out of Control
Her Job is to monitor and report not to smack down your kids.
If it would of been me,I would be in jail right now for beating the crap out the little bastard!
I think she handled it well, given that there was absolutely nothing she could do.
If the internet thinks she deserves the money, who am I (or you) to argue.
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To many times we hear about things are going to change and be different after something like this is in the media, and then nothing happens.
Doxing the parents and kids so soon was most likely a bad thing, should have waited to see if anything was going to happen. Of course the school won't say anything citing student privacy laws, and the police will not comment because they are minors.
I think those kids right now fully understand what it is like to be on the receiving end of being tormented by people who think your crap.
There might be some truth to the picked on internet nerd stereotype, but the internet emboldens them to take action and they might be overreacting to make up for every person who ever treated them like crap as well.
It might be time to take your kids cellphone and computer away until you go through everything on them and find out how evil they actually are. This isn't boys will be boys, this is kids taking on an adult they think is weak and powerless... funny I bet they feel that way themselves right now.
Watching this video did anyone else get a chill and imagine them forcing and old lady into an alley and doing the same thing with a much worse ending? That could be a motivating factor, we've seen this behavior before and we know where it leads.
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Jason McElwain's School District
Note: Greece Athena HS had that game won already, hence McElwain's entrance, and letting a kid, autistic or not, dump in six treys is called in my book "running up the score."
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Re: Jason McElwain's School District
ignoring the relevance, the fact the other team let him shoot unguarded, and able to drop the gem "autistic or not". All in a very concise post. Well played.
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Re: Jason McElwain's School District
That was epic nice video. (whatever your negative slant was)
thx... balances out all mad shit you see online.
Bit like the donation page for this story.
Seen it at $45,000 ... now its $500,000 and growing.
Another epic nice outcome.
Much better than the "fabricated to give a shit" Inman story.
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Re:
/b/ found the woman who binned the cat as I remember, that didn't seem trolly.
reddit had that panic that some of their trolls might have encouraged someone to commit suicide, doesn't seem kind and giving.
but then no one judges me on my avatar alone... nope nope nope...
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Re: Re:
Your avatar irritates me... it's those fuckin eyebrows.
You are a balding man with a Brazilian-wax-goatee-beard and a weird fucking grin on your face. Your eyebrows are bloody ginormous and your head is so big it stretches across the whole freekin page. Where the fuck are your ears ? I changed my resolution to 9001-X-9001 and still my screen is too small.
point: Doing my avatar proud... I am doing it right ! amirite ?
As for pointless trolly /b/... blame the roll of the OP.
stupid kids posting , "post ending on 99 decides a page to go call the user a pedophile"
Random trolling for no fucking reason other than randomly being dickish to a majority of really decent people.
The cancer that killed /b/ is still killing /b/
Some of the OP's have great, deserving peoples, needing trolled for great reasons. Ignored because lulz is now being a dick for no reason.
Cheek is now a joke....wtf /b/ , cheeky is not funny, funny is.
Scientology was funny because of the cult people being trolled.
Call me a moralfag but...
Baiting pedophiles in chat and posting their dox online for the cops, after sending gifts of delicious pizza etc...
V
Posting peedo on a random users youtube page
One is lulz....the other is fucking pointless, stupid and cruel to innocent people.
The cancer that killed /b/... that's it right there.
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Good.
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Re: Good.
I feel sorry for everyone involved.
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"I feel really bad about what I did," Wesley, one of the boys in the video, said in a statement issued to the show by police. "I wish I had never done those things. If that had happened to someone in my family, like my mother or grandmother, I would be really mad at the people who did that to them."
"I am so sorry for the way I treated you," Josh, another one of the boys, said in a statement. "When I saw the video I was disgusted and could not believe I did that. I am sorry for being so mean and I will never treat anyone this way again."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/karen-klein-bullying-video-bullies-apologize-to- bus-monitor_n_1617404.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
They mocked her about her son to took his own life...
I'm so sure they are sorry... /sarc
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Not saying that's specifically the case, but it is not unreasonable that this is what happened.
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Middle schoolers saying disgusted?
The first one reads more naturally, the 2nd one more rehearsed.
I wonder what other wonders the parents found on their phones and computers....
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I read Techdirt regularly, but damn. Way to be biased.
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*grumbles* kids these days *grumbles*
Awww, I must be getting old.
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bus idea- good.
Make them walk to and from school.
Not being allowed to speak.
That seems like a suitable punishment.
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Humankind's twisted march of progress.
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Re: Humankind's twisted march of progress.
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Second, ban the kids from school transportation. There's no federal law that says the states have to provide ANY transport to school. Walk your asses.
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Why?
The obvious thing that strikes me about the entirely predictable savagery in response is that those engaging in that conduct do so a lack of sympathetic empathy.
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Another example of how low humans can sink. I don't care how their parents raised them, whether the old lady should have done something or any crap like that. They brought this on themselves and are now being treated like the fucked up psychos they are.
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These two things seem obviously related to me.
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Also, 'children'? This lot? I think if you can spout crap like that they can be treated as adults. I'm not saying everyone should go send death threats to them or that doing so is normal behaviour, but I sure as hell don't pity them.
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I have no sympathy for stupid moronic children, but ofcourse masnick will stick up for them..
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Really?
Damned shameful.
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