I notice that the clear subtext to these "tech industry leaders" is that a Trump presidency might obstruct the flow of cheap H1B labor from overseas.
Your definition of "cheap H1B labor from overseas" is a bit skewed. The median salary for H-1B workers in the top five tech companies is well over 100k/year. I wouldn't classify that as "cheap labor" in any industry.
Well, does Facebook qualify more as "small owner-operated company, in which the owners are necessarily closely connected to the speech" or "large organization"?
I would definitely consider Facebook "large organization", but that wasn't the only criteria that decided Turner v FCC. Also note that Volokh qualifies his statement with "might be required to".
AFAIK only a couple cases have forced private companies to disseminate messages that they might disagree with, that being cable companies and universities. In both of those the court determined they had some degree of "monopolistic opportunity to shut out some speakers". I don't believe that Facebook has reached that bar when it comes to disseminating speech on the internet.
I guess the examples I used above are not quite right.
Federal law does not prevent businesses from refusing service to customers based on sexual orientation. Neither does the state, county or municipality where my business is located. So I could actually refuse to serve someone based on their sexual preference, if I wanted to.
A better example:
I can refuse to print a "Black Lives Matter" sign because I disagree with the message. On the other hand, I cannot refuse to print a "No Parking" sign for someone just because they are black.
(Once again, I wouldn't actually refuse either of these customers)
Having multiple bakeries in one town doesn't let one private bakery off the hook when it comes to protected classes.
Don't confuse refusing service to someone with refusing to disseminate a message you disagree with.
As a purveyor of fine signage, I can refuse to print a "Gay Pride" sign because I disagree with the message. On the other hand, I cannot refuse to print a "No Parking" sign for someone just because they are homosexual.
(Just so you know, the above are just examples and I wouldn't actually refuse either because I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.)
Looking into this a little further, it could be argued that Facebook holds a monopoly in internet communication and could be forced to relay messages they disagree with the same way that Turner Broadcasting was forced to carry channels they objected to. (see Turner Broadcasting v. Federal Communications Commission, 512 U.S. 622 (1994)) Personally, I disagree with this argument - I don't even have a Facebook account and I am able to voice my opinions just fine on the internet.
Playing Devil's advocate, what they are trying to say is that these services have become a social necessity and first amendment protections should apply.
When you post something on Facebook you already have First Admentmed protection. The govenment cannot tell or force Facebook to remove your post as long as what you are saying is protected speech.
The First Amendment has never been about forcing anyone to provide a platform for your speech. Newspapers have always held the right not to publish your letter to editor if they choose not to. Kinko's has the right to refuse to copy your flyer if they do not like your message. I work in the sign industry and I can absolutely refuse to make a sign that I personally object to. The First Amendment only applies to the government suppressing speech, not private entities.
...and citizens in America must learn to abide by police authority when confronted.
I was with you right up to that point.
After decades and decades of systematic abuse of authority by law enforcement personnel, your advice of "just bend over and take it with a smile" is piss-poor advice, in my opinion.
The resentment towards LEOs stems from the over militarization of police forces, the ingrained law enforcement culture of being "above the law" and the practice of using tickets, arrests and property seizures as funding sources.
The resentment of the public by LEOs stems from the fact that everybody carries a video recorder in their pocket and they are less likely to be able to abuse their authority without consequences these days.
None of those are the fault of the public, but yet you still advise that we "must learn to abide by police authority when confronted". That is not a solution, it's blaming the victims.
That should be enough probably cause to do a "stop and ask".
[pet_peeve_rant]
It's probable cause. The correct legal term is probable cause.
"Probably cause" indicates that something may make another thing happen in the future. "Probable cause" is a legal standard that indicates there is enough reason for an arrest or to do a search.
The terms mean very different things and are not interchangeable.
Provide "evidence" to sensationalism and non-sensical wingnut talking points?
Ok then, how about you simply express why you think this amendment is a good idea?
Thus far all you have contributed to this discussion is childish insults. Although I doubt it, it is possible you you might have an opposing viewpoint which deserves consideration, so let's hear it, Skippy.
The first amendment carefully only protects legal speech. It's one of the reasons first amendment arguments are a non starter in piracy cases, as the underlying piracy negated the first amendment protections.
To me that argument is ass backwards. As it is, copyright is already engaging in a first amendment balancing act that requires Fair Use to keep it from being declared unconstitutional. When you then use something that's already on such dubious footing to decide what gets first amendment protection in the first place, is like putting the carriage in front of the horse, in my opinion.
Publicity rights creates a set of speech which is not "free", and in certain circumstances as a result not protected by the 1st.
I don't think we should have publicity right laws.
But I will note that Lowery is upfront and honest about what he believes.
The problem is that Lowery seems to believe that the tech sector owes him something because he had a couple of songs that made the charts way back in the 90's.
Our first experience with Lowery on Techdirt was him swearing up a storm in the comment section and demanding that Mike give him equal exposure on a platform Mike created and pays all the bills for. Fun times:
The 1st Ammendement has no guarantee of "anonymity".
While not actually articulated in the Bill of Rights, the right to anonymity has always been in integral part of our Free Speech rights. Our courts have consistently upheld the right throughout our history, the most recent being in 1995:
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. [...] It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation--and their ideas from suppression--at the hand of an intolerant society. McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Comm'n (93-986), 514 U.S. 334 (1995)
Haha. Mike Masnick doesn't know what a "front group" is. Totally hilarious.
Apparently, you are the one who doesn't know what a "front group" is.
Here is SourceWatch's opinion of the Copyright Alliance:
The Copyright Alliance is a 501(c)(4) front group created and operated by associates of former Sen. Don Nickles (R-Oklahoma) and his lobbying firm, The Nickles Group, LLC. Formed in 2007, the Copyright Alliance claims to represent a broad cross-section of copyright stakeholders, with an emphasis on the interests of creative individuals such as photographers, visual artists, songwriters and performers; however, the makeup of its board, the corporate backgrounds and political connections of its founders and staff members, and its advocacy track record reveal that its true purpose is to promote the interests of prominent telecom and entertainment corporations. Strong evidence revealing the Copyright Alliance to be a front group for Nickles is found in the form-990 tax returns and financial reports to the Department of Labor filed by member organizations which show that dues and contributions are being sent directly to the Nickles Group LLC offices at 601 13th Street NW, Suite 250 North, Washington, D.C. 20005 Source
If you are running a Linux distro with the GNOME desktop you should check out the program I wrote. It creates GNOME Network Manager OpenVPN connections from the free VPN server list provided by the VPN Gate Project.
Any artist or creator that happens to be aware of you dislikes you.
I am a creator and I think most of Mike's arguments are spot on the target.
I also happen to think it's pretty silly for people to blame the messenger. Mike didn't create your problems, he has only written about them. As a matter of fact, Mike has attempted, many, many times to offer up solutions for creators to earn more only to be called "Pirate Mike" because those solutions aren't "the way we have always done things".
It's really fairly simple: "The world is always changing, so adapt or die." That axiom never changes.
On the post: Ton Of Tech Industry Leaders Say Trump Would Be A Complete Disaster For Innovation
Re: Re: Not a Trump supporter, but...
https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/29/how-google-facebook-and-others-pay-their-h-1b-employees/
On the post: Ton Of Tech Industry Leaders Say Trump Would Be A Complete Disaster For Innovation
Re: Not a Trump supporter, but...
Your definition of "cheap H1B labor from overseas" is a bit skewed. The median salary for H-1B workers in the top five tech companies is well over 100k/year. I wouldn't classify that as "cheap labor" in any industry.
On the post: Pam Geller Sues The US Gov't Because Facebook Blocked Her Page; Says CDA 230 Violates First Amendment
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I would definitely consider Facebook "large organization", but that wasn't the only criteria that decided Turner v FCC. Also note that Volokh qualifies his statement with "might be required to".
AFAIK only a couple cases have forced private companies to disseminate messages that they might disagree with, that being cable companies and universities. In both of those the court determined they had some degree of "monopolistic opportunity to shut out some speakers". I don't believe that Facebook has reached that bar when it comes to disseminating speech on the internet.
On the post: Pam Geller Sues The US Gov't Because Facebook Blocked Her Page; Says CDA 230 Violates First Amendment
Re: Re: Compare to storefront operations
Federal law does not prevent businesses from refusing service to customers based on sexual orientation. Neither does the state, county or municipality where my business is located. So I could actually refuse to serve someone based on their sexual preference, if I wanted to.
A better example:
I can refuse to print a "Black Lives Matter" sign because I disagree with the message. On the other hand, I cannot refuse to print a "No Parking" sign for someone just because they are black.
(Once again, I wouldn't actually refuse either of these customers)
On the post: Pam Geller Sues The US Gov't Because Facebook Blocked Her Page; Says CDA 230 Violates First Amendment
Re: Compare to storefront operations
Don't confuse refusing service to someone with refusing to disseminate a message you disagree with.
As a purveyor of fine signage, I can refuse to print a "Gay Pride" sign because I disagree with the message. On the other hand, I cannot refuse to print a "No Parking" sign for someone just because they are homosexual.
(Just so you know, the above are just examples and I wouldn't actually refuse either because I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.)
On the post: Pam Geller Sues The US Gov't Because Facebook Blocked Her Page; Says CDA 230 Violates First Amendment
Re: Re:
Here is Eugene Volokh's take on companies refusing to help disseminate messages they disagree with:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/11/02/printing-businesss-right-no t-to-print-messages-it-doesnt-want-to-print/
On the post: Pam Geller Sues The US Gov't Because Facebook Blocked Her Page; Says CDA 230 Violates First Amendment
Re:
When you post something on Facebook you already have First Admentmed protection. The govenment cannot tell or force Facebook to remove your post as long as what you are saying is protected speech.
The First Amendment has never been about forcing anyone to provide a platform for your speech. Newspapers have always held the right not to publish your letter to editor if they choose not to. Kinko's has the right to refuse to copy your flyer if they do not like your message. I work in the sign industry and I can absolutely refuse to make a sign that I personally object to. The First Amendment only applies to the government suppressing speech, not private entities.
On the post: Facebook Sued Again For 'Material Support' Of Terrorism, Because Hamas Uses Facebook
Re: Question about Section 230
Moderating, editing and/or deleting comments DOES NOT remove a website's Section 230 Safe Harbor protection whatsoever:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140317/10060326596/why-moderating-comments-doesnt-rem ove-section-230-protection-why-more-lawyers-need-to-understand-this.shtml
On the post: Two Days, Two Shootings, Two Sets Of Cops Making Recordings Disappear
Re: Re: Re:
I was with you right up to that point.
After decades and decades of systematic abuse of authority by law enforcement personnel, your advice of "just bend over and take it with a smile" is piss-poor advice, in my opinion.
The resentment towards LEOs stems from the over militarization of police forces, the ingrained law enforcement culture of being "above the law" and the practice of using tickets, arrests and property seizures as funding sources.
The resentment of the public by LEOs stems from the fact that everybody carries a video recorder in their pocket and they are less likely to be able to abuse their authority without consequences these days.
None of those are the fault of the public, but yet you still advise that we "must learn to abide by police authority when confronted". That is not a solution, it's blaming the victims.
On the post: Led Zeppelin Wins Copyright Case Over Stairway To Heaven
Re:
If so, that makes you the idiot in my eyes.
On the post: Supreme Court Knocks A Little More Off The 4th Amendment; Gives Cops Another Way To Salvage Illegal Searches
Re:
[pet_peeve_rant]
It's probable cause. The correct legal term is probable cause.
"Probably cause" indicates that something may make another thing happen in the future. "Probable cause" is a legal standard that indicates there is enough reason for an arrest or to do a search.
The terms mean very different things and are not interchangeable.
[/pet_peeve_rant]
On the post: Both Trump And Clinton Suggest Expanding Mass Surveillance, Bogus Watch Lists After Attack In Orlando
I didn't think getting added to these type of lists even required a "mere accusation".
It's more like "mere suspicion" or even something as innocent as having a foreign sounding name.
On the post: Senator Jeff Sessions Looks To Blast A Giant Hole In The 4th Amendment For 'Emergency' Response
Re: Re: Re:
Ok then, how about you simply express why you think this amendment is a good idea?
Thus far all you have contributed to this discussion is childish insults. Although I doubt it, it is possible you you might have an opposing viewpoint which deserves consideration, so let's hear it, Skippy.
On the post: Another Bad Ruling In California Threatens To Massively Undermine Section 230 By Exempting Publicity Rights
Re: Re: Re: Re:
To me that argument is ass backwards. As it is, copyright is already engaging in a first amendment balancing act that requires Fair Use to keep it from being declared unconstitutional. When you then use something that's already on such dubious footing to decide what gets first amendment protection in the first place, is like putting the carriage in front of the horse, in my opinion.
Publicity rights creates a set of speech which is not "free", and in certain circumstances as a result not protected by the 1st.
I don't think we should have publicity right laws.
On the post: RIAA Demands Takedown Of ThePirateBay.org, But EasyDNS Refuses Over Lack Of Due Process
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The problem is that Lowery seems to believe that the tech sector owes him something because he had a couple of songs that made the charts way back in the 90's.
Our first experience with Lowery on Techdirt was him swearing up a storm in the comment section and demanding that Mike give him equal exposure on a platform Mike created and pays all the bills for. Fun times:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120220/00310917802/if-youre-going-to-compare-old-music-biz -model-with-new-music-biz-model-least-make-some-sense.shtml
On the post: Another Bad Ruling In California Threatens To Massively Undermine Section 230 By Exempting Publicity Rights
Re: Re:
While not actually articulated in the Bill of Rights, the right to anonymity has always been in integral part of our Free Speech rights. Our courts have consistently upheld the right throughout our history, the most recent being in 1995:
On the post: RIAA Demands Takedown Of ThePirateBay.org, But EasyDNS Refuses Over Lack Of Due Process
Re:
Apparently, you are the one who doesn't know what a "front group" is.
Here is SourceWatch's opinion of the Copyright Alliance:
On the post: Daily Deal: CyberGhost VPN Premium Plan
If you are running a Linux distro with the GNOME desktop you should check out the program I wrote. It creates GNOME Network Manager OpenVPN connections from the free VPN server list provided by the VPN Gate Project.
Gvpngate Homepage
On the post: Reputation Management Revolution: Fake News Sites And Even Faker DMCA Notices
Re: Re: Re: Dodged a bullet there
I always hate it when I roll a 1 on my d20 Detect Sarcasm check.
On the post: And Out Come The Wolves: Now Getty Images Files EU Antitrust Complaint Against Google About Image Piracy
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I am a creator and I think most of Mike's arguments are spot on the target.
I also happen to think it's pretty silly for people to blame the messenger. Mike didn't create your problems, he has only written about them. As a matter of fact, Mike has attempted, many, many times to offer up solutions for creators to earn more only to be called "Pirate Mike" because those solutions aren't "the way we have always done things".
It's really fairly simple: "The world is always changing, so adapt or die." That axiom never changes.
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