I'm sorry, are you suggesting that my musical taste is less valuable within our culture because I didn't pay for the music? way to be the most stuck up person ever. plenty of things are free to consume and have infinite supply, much like how many people choose to consume music, and are a huge part of our culture. you're essentially dismissing music for music's sake and only giving meaning to music that is backed up by money. everyone has a say in culture, not just the people who shell out the most money. if it were about money things like the punk movement would have had no effect because they were underground things that resulted in almost no profit for the first 10 years. those free concerts in people's basements wouldn't have lead to punk becoming part of musical culture.
Re: IP can't id a user, but the ISP can use it to id the owner of the account
This returns us to the problem of an ISP policing the internet. It's not their job to police the internet, only to provide it. They shouldn't even be sending out those e-mails anyway. The only time I've even seen these e-mails lead anywhere was last year at college. They e-mailed the college and the college took his internet access away for 2 days. He just used wireless instead of the port in his wall. Plus, I also know someone who received an e-mail from their ISP about downloading at home (the e-mail went to his mother, who owned the account) and his mom played dumb. The ISP was just like "Well, if your wireless isn't secured you should have someone help you set it up" and that was the end of it. They continued downloading and never got another e-mail.
That's ridiculous. Someone stealing my WiFi and using it illegally in no way would incriminate me. That's like saying someone robbed my house, including a gun I own, and killed someone with it but since it was my gun I should go to jail, too.
I completely agree. Most people (at least the sensible ones) would agree that monopolies are for the most part a bad thing that limit progress and efficiency. People tend not to question things like the police being government controlled because it's "always been that way." For the government there is no risk of losing power so it is able to maintain a monopoly over many sectors and industries that could benefit from privatization.
I don't understand how the school thinks they have the right to punish someone for improper behavior at home anyway. Isn't that sort of...outside of their jurisdiction? If it's not being done at the school and they didn't find out about it at school they shouldn't be able to get you in trouble at the school. If my teacher heard me cursing at a local store would s/he be able to give me detention?
I don't understand where some people are coming from saying that no one wants to play songs they've never heard before. I've discovered some great music through Rock Band, especially the free bonus tracks that came with Rock Band 2. I'd never heard of a lot of those bands, but they turned out to be some really great songs. if you don't listen to, or in this case play, new songs how would you ever find new things to like?
In an earlier post you said corrupt governments and organization won't survive in an open environment, but then you go on to mention 1984 and Big Brother? Did you even read 1984? The whole point was that it was a corrupt government, it's a dystopia. Do you really think that would solve the problem? There will always be bad people with no regard for the law, and that sort of system just makes it easier for them to find the people they want to hurt and plan out large-scale attacks.
No, if I wasn't hired I wouldn't be obligated to show up anyway but if I did show up and start working without being hired the boss of the place wouldn't be obligated to pay me, either. Just because someone makes music doesn't mean they deserve to be paid, if they make music and no one likes or buys it that's a risk they shoulda known about. Even if they didn't I have no pity for them, at least they learned about risk vs. reward.
If a shoemaker doesn't get enough business because people don't like his shoes his first response shouldn't be to give up making shoes and if it is he fails horribly at adapting, understanding business, and he obviously didn't choose the right profession for him.
Instead of just giving up and taking a menial job he should first find out why people didn't buy his shoes. Maybe he set his prices too high, maybe he needs to refine his technique. Either way, business is about offering something to people that they want at a price which is profitable, but people are willing to buy the product at. The shoemaker could try lowering his prices a bit, or offering a special if you buy multiple pairs of shoes. Doing things like this is how you find a balance when starting a business, you don't just magically know the formula for profit and if it fails you're screwed.
The same thing applies to music. You have to offer music people want to listen to and they have to be willing to pay the amount your asking. This is hard for musicians who are just starting up because people haven't heard your music. I've never heard of the band in the article and if the number of people both buying and downloading their music was so small it's probably that not very many other people had either. They needed a better marketing solution to get themselves out there. If they couldn't figure it out the first time they can always try something new with the same album to get people interested in them, or maybe just add an extra track or two that helps improve the album's quality. That's what the CwF + RtB business models are about, putting yourself out there for the fans to see, hear, and connect with, and offering a valueable product.
From what I can tell the band from the article didn't connect with their fans or give a reason to buy. If they tracked the downloads to about a thousand then there was obviously no reason to buy. People talk about music, they share interests, that's one of the primary ways to hear about new musicians. If an album is only downloaded about 1,000 times then the people who downloaded it didn't think it was even worth mentioning to their friends. If they couldn't even justify telling other people about it when they got it for free then there was no real reason to buy it either. As far as connecting with fans, as I said, I've never even heard of them before. Maybe they have a small fan base but connecting with fans doesn't just mean existing fans, it means potential fans, too. It means getting exposure, hopefully positive, and getting people to like you, as well as your music. Their problem wasn't that more people downloaded the music than bought it, it was that not enough people heard it so no one even knew it was there.
I rarely buy any music, just listen to stuff I have, but the last CD I bought is a good example of the CwF + RtB business model. I bought the special edition of the album Brand New Eyes by Paramore. I'm a big Paramore fan but I honestly wouldn't have bought the CD if it weren't for the special edition, which comes with a 9" vinyl, a poster, a dvd, some photos and a copy of the lead singer's journal where she wrote the song lyrics and notes on each song, along with some drawings. The regular CD didn't justify a purchase in my mind but the extra stuff that I got made it worth the extra money and more.
You can argue that it's different, since Paramore is already famous and gets played on the radio, and that's true, it's harder for bands trying to make it on their own because they don't get the essentially free exposure the radio brings. But I'm not involved in the music business in any significant way and even I can think of a few good ideas. Sending free copies of products to well-known bloggers, for instance, is a great way to get exposure. If you send them something good, something worth mentioning, they'll give you a shout-out and a link to your site, because it doesn't cost them more than the time is takes them to listen, and generally, people can decide if something is good or not very fast. And if they don't want to help you out, don't even want to listen, at worst you wasted a few bucks on the CD you sent them and postage to send it.
There is an inherent risk when creating and selling any product, if people don't want what you have to offer you could end up out a lot of time and money, but that doesn't mean the system is bad or you didn't get what you deserved. That's capitalism, you invest time and money in a product with the hopes of making it back. If musicians truly love music and making music then they'll try again, if they decide to just give up and move on to something else for their income, then they weren't really musicians anyway. As a writer, I find that statement to ring very true. I've only had a few poems published and I've never made any money, and most likely I never will, but that doesn't mean I just stop writing. I still write and post it up to the internet, because it's cheap, easy, and I'm primarily writing because I love to write and share what I write, not because it's a good way to get a paycheck. I should hope musicians feel the same way about music.
Well, it only makes sense that the roadies and sound engineers and managers you know agree with you, not because you can only be friends with people who have the same opinions as you do, but because it is common for like-minded people to group together on the basis of those principles.
In addition, you criticize those who complain about prices, stating that they are spending just as much on beer and chips. People have limited amounts of money to spend and they have to choose how to spend it. If they spend it all on beer and then download the music they aren't taking money from the music industry, they just aren't giving it any money either.
As an example, say I am a fan of books and music, a new CD and a new book come out at the same time. I want both of these products but can only afford one. After hearing a couple songs from the CD on the radio I decide it's not worth my money so I buy the book. Then proceed home and download some of the songs from the CD that I do like.
I didn't take money away from them because I had no intention to buy it anyway. The difference is making the product valuable. If the product is valuable people will buy it. Creating a connection to the consumer is also important. I have frequently bought things that I have gotten little use out of to support the makers.
The common argument is that music downloading doesn't equate to stealing in the same sense as, say, shoplifting because I didn't remove the product from the market. This is one (admittedly feeble) defense, but in addition to this is the difference between stealing and just not buying.
Infringing on the copyright of musicians and then distributing that material is (in my opinion) morally wrong but it is in no way the same thing as stealing. In some cases you're using something you wouldn't have bought. Then, as a result, you may even decide to buy the next CD, or go back and buy it to support the musician. The positives outweigh the negatives.
I understand that this is just based on one example and there are many other types of cases and reasons for taking the music. Many of the people may just be downloading as much music as possible, entire discographies, or even downloading things they would have otherwise bought. I am also aware that this isn't the rock solid argument (or a rock solid argument at all) that will change your mind about filesharing. However, I hope you will stop making generalizations and grouping everyone who downloads a song together as the same kind of low-life destroying the music business, because it is a fallacy.
This is getting lengthy (I'm aware of my wordiness) but I promise this is my last point. We are not some "deluded filesharing party." We are a community who discusses laws, economics and business models. Another poster said "They don't respect your rights as an author to do business in your way" (speaking to Anne Wollenberg). We are open to people using many business models, it is merely discussion towards the goal of building better business models that can be more beneficial for everyone involved. It is Anne Wollenberg who denounces alternate business models when she claims that there is no defense for filesharing, failing to exclude legal filesharing used as a legitimate business model.
eh, it's more like Lynn Vincent was paraphrasing for her. if I came up with an idea and someone else wrote it down in their own words it was still my idea, not theirs. it's not uncommon for biographies to have so called "ghost writers" that do the actual writing of the person's ideas so that it sounds more professional and gets the point across in a clear manner.
On the post: Is The Fan Who Buys A Product He Wants A Big Dope?
Re: The real big dopes
On the post: French Court Says IP Address Does Not Identify A User
Re: IP can't id a user, but the ISP can use it to id the owner of the account
On the post: French Court Says IP Address Does Not Identify A User
Re: Unfortunatly...
On the post: Swedish Investigator Hired By Warner Bros. During Pirate Bay Investigation Now In Charge Of IT Crime In Sweden
Re: The incompetence & corruption of government
On the post: Could Looking At London's 2012 Olympics Logo Land People In Prison?
On the post: School District Says It Only Turned Spy Cameras On 42 Times; FBI Now Investigating
the role of schools
On the post: Viacom To Record Labels: If You Want More Money For Music In Video Games, We'll Find Other Music
On the post: Appeals Court Says Internet Content Should Be Held To Standards Of Strictest Jurisdiction
Re: Community standards
On the post: You Can't Get Rid Of Anonymity Online, Even If You Wanted To
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Yes, If You Don't Do Anything, You Shouldn't Expect People To Just Give You Money
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Yes, If You Don't Do Anything, You Shouldn't Expect People To Just Give You Money
Re: Re: Re:
Instead of just giving up and taking a menial job he should first find out why people didn't buy his shoes. Maybe he set his prices too high, maybe he needs to refine his technique. Either way, business is about offering something to people that they want at a price which is profitable, but people are willing to buy the product at. The shoemaker could try lowering his prices a bit, or offering a special if you buy multiple pairs of shoes. Doing things like this is how you find a balance when starting a business, you don't just magically know the formula for profit and if it fails you're screwed.
The same thing applies to music. You have to offer music people want to listen to and they have to be willing to pay the amount your asking. This is hard for musicians who are just starting up because people haven't heard your music. I've never heard of the band in the article and if the number of people both buying and downloading their music was so small it's probably that not very many other people had either. They needed a better marketing solution to get themselves out there. If they couldn't figure it out the first time they can always try something new with the same album to get people interested in them, or maybe just add an extra track or two that helps improve the album's quality. That's what the CwF + RtB business models are about, putting yourself out there for the fans to see, hear, and connect with, and offering a valueable product.
From what I can tell the band from the article didn't connect with their fans or give a reason to buy. If they tracked the downloads to about a thousand then there was obviously no reason to buy. People talk about music, they share interests, that's one of the primary ways to hear about new musicians. If an album is only downloaded about 1,000 times then the people who downloaded it didn't think it was even worth mentioning to their friends. If they couldn't even justify telling other people about it when they got it for free then there was no real reason to buy it either. As far as connecting with fans, as I said, I've never even heard of them before. Maybe they have a small fan base but connecting with fans doesn't just mean existing fans, it means potential fans, too. It means getting exposure, hopefully positive, and getting people to like you, as well as your music. Their problem wasn't that more people downloaded the music than bought it, it was that not enough people heard it so no one even knew it was there.
I rarely buy any music, just listen to stuff I have, but the last CD I bought is a good example of the CwF + RtB business model. I bought the special edition of the album Brand New Eyes by Paramore. I'm a big Paramore fan but I honestly wouldn't have bought the CD if it weren't for the special edition, which comes with a 9" vinyl, a poster, a dvd, some photos and a copy of the lead singer's journal where she wrote the song lyrics and notes on each song, along with some drawings. The regular CD didn't justify a purchase in my mind but the extra stuff that I got made it worth the extra money and more.
You can argue that it's different, since Paramore is already famous and gets played on the radio, and that's true, it's harder for bands trying to make it on their own because they don't get the essentially free exposure the radio brings. But I'm not involved in the music business in any significant way and even I can think of a few good ideas. Sending free copies of products to well-known bloggers, for instance, is a great way to get exposure. If you send them something good, something worth mentioning, they'll give you a shout-out and a link to your site, because it doesn't cost them more than the time is takes them to listen, and generally, people can decide if something is good or not very fast. And if they don't want to help you out, don't even want to listen, at worst you wasted a few bucks on the CD you sent them and postage to send it.
There is an inherent risk when creating and selling any product, if people don't want what you have to offer you could end up out a lot of time and money, but that doesn't mean the system is bad or you didn't get what you deserved. That's capitalism, you invest time and money in a product with the hopes of making it back. If musicians truly love music and making music then they'll try again, if they decide to just give up and move on to something else for their income, then they weren't really musicians anyway. As a writer, I find that statement to ring very true. I've only had a few poems published and I've never made any money, and most likely I never will, but that doesn't mean I just stop writing. I still write and post it up to the internet, because it's cheap, easy, and I'm primarily writing because I love to write and share what I write, not because it's a good way to get a paycheck. I should hope musicians feel the same way about music.
whew, man, I need to start shortening my posts.
On the post: Dismissing The Freeloading Myth
Re:
In addition, you criticize those who complain about prices, stating that they are spending just as much on beer and chips. People have limited amounts of money to spend and they have to choose how to spend it. If they spend it all on beer and then download the music they aren't taking money from the music industry, they just aren't giving it any money either.
As an example, say I am a fan of books and music, a new CD and a new book come out at the same time. I want both of these products but can only afford one. After hearing a couple songs from the CD on the radio I decide it's not worth my money so I buy the book. Then proceed home and download some of the songs from the CD that I do like.
I didn't take money away from them because I had no intention to buy it anyway. The difference is making the product valuable. If the product is valuable people will buy it. Creating a connection to the consumer is also important. I have frequently bought things that I have gotten little use out of to support the makers.
The common argument is that music downloading doesn't equate to stealing in the same sense as, say, shoplifting because I didn't remove the product from the market. This is one (admittedly feeble) defense, but in addition to this is the difference between stealing and just not buying.
Infringing on the copyright of musicians and then distributing that material is (in my opinion) morally wrong but it is in no way the same thing as stealing. In some cases you're using something you wouldn't have bought. Then, as a result, you may even decide to buy the next CD, or go back and buy it to support the musician. The positives outweigh the negatives.
I understand that this is just based on one example and there are many other types of cases and reasons for taking the music. Many of the people may just be downloading as much music as possible, entire discographies, or even downloading things they would have otherwise bought. I am also aware that this isn't the rock solid argument (or a rock solid argument at all) that will change your mind about filesharing. However, I hope you will stop making generalizations and grouping everyone who downloads a song together as the same kind of low-life destroying the music business, because it is a fallacy.
This is getting lengthy (I'm aware of my wordiness) but I promise this is my last point. We are not some "deluded filesharing party." We are a community who discusses laws, economics and business models. Another poster said "They don't respect your rights as an author to do business in your way" (speaking to Anne Wollenberg). We are open to people using many business models, it is merely discussion towards the goal of building better business models that can be more beneficial for everyone involved. It is Anne Wollenberg who denounces alternate business models when she claims that there is no defense for filesharing, failing to exclude legal filesharing used as a legitimate business model.
On the post: If Google's Book Scanning Violates Copyright Law, What About The AP's Book Scanning?
Re: Fact Check on Paragraph 1
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