He may not be a soldier, but at least we now have proof (PROOF I say!) that the Wikileaks cables are endangering someone. Hmm... I guess I'll go hang up the whole "please provide proof of increased risk" thing now, huh.
Thanks my fellow Floridian for helping that cause!
you know, for those times when the obvious is missed, but it's ok because it's not really their fault… what with our educational system and the TeeVee’s doing such a bad job raising our country.
He's talking about how the government has passed laws and taxes to try to stop people from doing things "for their own good". Where's my adult choice in whether I want to smoke or ride without a helmet or not carry health insurance? So the government considers us children incapable of making our own choices.
I do see what you're saying... and if you used "may well cause harm", then I'd know that's how you mean it. But I still assert that people like Larry are using it to apply to patriotism/nationalism and are using it as a statement. Just like how the media use a question mark to distance themselves from an obviously inflammatory statement... http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-13-2006/the-question-mark
I'm not going to let them slide just by making it in the form of a question... that's not being insightful; it's being a contestant on Jeopardy.
You're right... I misspoke. I was confusing the arguments about Wikileaks being guilty of the same things that Manning was accused of. They had stolen 'goods' (if you want to tie 'goods' and 'information' with the same bow), and would be guilty of such if they were subject to the same laws we are. I do wonder why they weren’t charged with possession of stolen goods by their own country though (or the equivalent law).
But you’re right… they may have broken our law, but they’re not subject to it, so does it matter as much?
I think the programmer in you is making you look at the code and not the resultant output. There is a bit of difference between the if-then logic of programming and philosophical/rhetorical argument.
The statement of "May well cause..." is, in the mouths of those using it, is the same as "WILL cause". It is making a claim. It's a statement to appeal to the patriotism-cum-nationalism that pervades this country... "Think of the SOLDIERS". And it is for that usage that I call them out on needing something to back it up.
You're right... people will listen to anyone that the media trots out there who says the right fiery words. But if it's an elected individual, they can be removed from their office.
I severely disagree with Ann Coulter's tactics of sensationalism. I have an even bigger disagreement with the fact that the media eats it up and spews it out there for the rest of America to suck up with a straw. I don't think there should be any new laws to damper the flames, but we can take away the matches from elected officials. We can't do that when the person causing the fire is, essentially, no one except for the fact that people (media) keep letting them talk.
I don’t know what the answer is… These blowhards have proven themselves incapable of censoring themselves. New laws are not the answer. The media really doesn’t care if some of us don’t like it… they’re just going to keep on keeping on. Boycott activism is useless in this day and age because it's inconvenient and we as a people are too damned lazy to do it.
Honestly, I was most moved by John Stewarts monologue when he was talking about how hopeless the political system seems… I feel the same damned way.
Considering that we're taking Latin out of context and into English (poor, poor Latin), I don't think the tense really matters that much. However, reading back through the list, I think I was mistaken about exactly which argument it is. I should have said it was cum hoc ergo propter hoc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
It doesn't matter whether I like the statement or not... it is logically fallacious if it is not backed up by fact showing the correlation of the two parts.
"I am apparently part of the minority that sees WikiLeaks as a criminal act."
You may be a minority here, but that's just because most of us feel that Wikileaks didn't break the law. The guy that obtained the cables did, but not Wikileaks.
"Some of that classified information my well result in additional casualties for U.S. service personnel."
Ooooh... my favorite! You shouldn't have! No, really... you shouldn't have. Please provide one shred of evidence that would back up the assertion that this will lead to any increased risk to any service person.
As for "may well have"... look, setting aside that it's an un-provable hypothetical and a logical fallacy(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc), many MANY things could be said to "may well have" lead to increased danger... hell, Chaos Theory says that a butterfly flapping it's wings could have lead to increased danger. Should we all now kill some butterflies?
Does anyone else think that "Think of the SOLDIERS!!" is quickly surpassing "Think of the CHILDREN!!" as the political cry du jour?
"There is a vast vast difference between a blog calling for violence and hateful actions and duly elected/nominated government officials spouting about 'second amendment remedies' or 'don't retreat, reload."
Or worse still, a no-position-carrying spokesperson saying those things... Does she do anything other than run SarahPAC? Maybe she and Ann Coulter should get together and recite violent rhetoric together.
[DISCLAIMER] I am not commenting on the political views of either Sarah Palin or Ann Coulter. From what I've heard, I do disagree with them. But here, I am only commenting on their past use of violent rhetoric in their public addressing, interviewing, etc, and the legitimacy of their place in the political limelight since neither is actually doing anything for the country through an elected or appointed position. If you want to debate how right or wrong either of them is, please go somewhere else and talk to someone else. Thank you.
I marked Qritiqal's post as 'insightful' for just this reason. Why point out what one side is doing with this or what the other side isn't doing... That's still focusing on the wrong part.
Going down the road of "RIGHT SIDE SAID RARRR" and "LEFT SIDE SAID BLARG" is missing the point: both sides are doing something bad. Now, please note, I did not say "both sides are to blame". That rests with the shooter (as Chrono said in a different thread here). While I do believe the blame is with the shooter, this event should still be looked at as an example of how the vitriol seeping from Washington can influence bad behavior.
Instead of saying "oh wow, ol' Lefty is sure being a hypocrite about this", why not say "Hey, you know what... maybe both parties need to tone it down a lot". Pointing out how the left would have reacted in a hypothetical is doing nothing but keeping the LvR hostility alive and keeping the focus on the side instead of on issues.
So the report that DynCorp was pimping young local boys to Afghani police is 'crap'. Gotcha.
Evidence that a United States contracted company, a domestic company (which means they are americans), is not just involved in, but is facilitating the sexual predation, molestation and prostitution of 12 year old boys... yup, guess we never should have brought that to light.
Just because it looks bad for our government doesn't mean it's any less valid or important.
So we've gone from thousands to dozens? And do you have anything to back up the assertion that 'prisoners' being held pre-trial at any facility are being held in solitary confinement (regardless of 'for their protection')?
On the post: Florida Man Sues Wikileaks Over The Personal Distress It Caused Him
Finally
Thanks my fellow Floridian for helping that cause!
/sarcasm, (start)shame-induced-alcohol-binge.
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you know, for those times when the obvious is missed, but it's ok because it's not really their fault… what with our educational system and the TeeVee’s doing such a bad job raising our country.
He's talking about how the government has passed laws and taxes to try to stop people from doing things "for their own good". Where's my adult choice in whether I want to smoke or ride without a helmet or not carry health insurance? So the government considers us children incapable of making our own choices.
[pat on head]
On the post: Debunking The Myth That Wikileaks Cable Leaks Haven't Been Important
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WikiLeaks
I'm not going to let them slide just by making it in the form of a question... that's not being insightful; it's being a contestant on Jeopardy.
On the post: Debunking The Myth That Wikileaks Cable Leaks Haven't Been Important
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But you’re right… they may have broken our law, but they’re not subject to it, so does it matter as much?
On the post: Debunking The Myth That Wikileaks Cable Leaks Haven't Been Important
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WikiLeaks
The statement of "May well cause..." is, in the mouths of those using it, is the same as "WILL cause". It is making a claim. It's a statement to appeal to the patriotism-cum-nationalism that pervades this country... "Think of the SOLDIERS". And it is for that usage that I call them out on needing something to back it up.
On the post: One Mentally Deranged Shooter Is No Reason To Throw Out The First Amendment
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I severely disagree with Ann Coulter's tactics of sensationalism. I have an even bigger disagreement with the fact that the media eats it up and spews it out there for the rest of America to suck up with a straw. I don't think there should be any new laws to damper the flames, but we can take away the matches from elected officials. We can't do that when the person causing the fire is, essentially, no one except for the fact that people (media) keep letting them talk.
I don’t know what the answer is… These blowhards have proven themselves incapable of censoring themselves. New laws are not the answer. The media really doesn’t care if some of us don’t like it… they’re just going to keep on keeping on. Boycott activism is useless in this day and age because it's inconvenient and we as a people are too damned lazy to do it.
Honestly, I was most moved by John Stewarts monologue when he was talking about how hopeless the political system seems… I feel the same damned way.
On the post: Debunking The Myth That Wikileaks Cable Leaks Haven't Been Important
Re: Re: Re: WikiLeaks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
It doesn't matter whether I like the statement or not... it is logically fallacious if it is not backed up by fact showing the correlation of the two parts.
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So I noticed ;)
You're welcome. There isn't a single part of the bipartisan, left/right-wing bullshit in this country I don't hate. And I do mean hate.
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Re: WikiLeaks
Ooooh... my favorite! You shouldn't have! No, really... you shouldn't have. Please provide one shred of evidence that would back up the assertion that this will lead to any increased risk to any service person.
As for "may well have"... look, setting aside that it's an un-provable hypothetical and a logical fallacy(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc), many MANY things could be said to "may well have" lead to increased danger... hell, Chaos Theory says that a butterfly flapping it's wings could have lead to increased danger. Should we all now kill some butterflies?
Does anyone else think that "Think of the SOLDIERS!!" is quickly surpassing "Think of the CHILDREN!!" as the political cry du jour?
On the post: One Mentally Deranged Shooter Is No Reason To Throw Out The First Amendment
Re: Re: Re:
[DISCLAIMER] I am not commenting on the political views of either Sarah Palin or Ann Coulter. From what I've heard, I do disagree with them. But here, I am only commenting on their past use of violent rhetoric in their public addressing, interviewing, etc, and the legitimacy of their place in the political limelight since neither is actually doing anything for the country through an elected or appointed position. If you want to debate how right or wrong either of them is, please go somewhere else and talk to someone else. Thank you.
On the post: One Mentally Deranged Shooter Is No Reason To Throw Out The First Amendment
Re: Re: Re:
Going down the road of "RIGHT SIDE SAID RARRR" and "LEFT SIDE SAID BLARG" is missing the point: both sides are doing something bad. Now, please note, I did not say "both sides are to blame". That rests with the shooter (as Chrono said in a different thread here). While I do believe the blame is with the shooter, this event should still be looked at as an example of how the vitriol seeping from Washington can influence bad behavior.
Instead of saying "oh wow, ol' Lefty is sure being a hypocrite about this", why not say "Hey, you know what... maybe both parties need to tone it down a lot". Pointing out how the left would have reacted in a hypothetical is doing nothing but keeping the LvR hostility alive and keeping the focus on the side instead of on issues.
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Re: Free Speech
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Re: Daily Show
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Evidence that a United States contracted company, a domestic company (which means they are americans), is not just involved in, but is facilitating the sexual predation, molestation and prostitution of 12 year old boys... yup, guess we never should have brought that to light.
Just because it looks bad for our government doesn't mean it's any less valid or important.
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Re: Don't worry
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On the post: Band Discovers Leaked Song... And Its Response Is To Release A Better Version For Free
Re: Worked for me
Bravo sir. :)
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