I've never understood why people insist they must be paid, just because they thought of an idea first.
Ideas are built off each other, kind of like math equations.
Gauss didn't have to pay Newton (or Leibniz depending on who you ask) when he used calculus to derive Gauss's Law. Neither was he sued for actually using Coulombs Law within Gauss's Law either.
If they treated math equations like they treated "patentable Ideas" today, I could only imagine where we'd be scientifically.
Hello, it seems you have responded to my comment. I think I'll just ignore your "limited infinity" thing, kind of off topic and pointless.
"Nothing wrong with the product, no one is going to 'create' a better one, as it did exactly as intended."
There was something wrong with it, it was too expensive to justify it's purpose. And the thought that no one will create a better cheaper version is a defeatist attitude.
"Companies invest in new product, in doing so they take on an amount of risk, sometimes it pays off somtimes it does not, but either way someone has to pay for its development and creation. Things dont just pop out of thin air."
You answered that yourself, the companies pay for its development, therefore it did not just "pop" out of thin air.
"Do you honestly believe you have to right to dictate the price you are willing to pay for a produce you deem to be 'intangable' ?? That is quite bizzar !! really, your saying I would have to sell you my product at the price you tell me I will get for it, and I HAVE to accept the 'terms' of that contract or agreement ?"
Yes I have the right to dictate how much I will pay for a product, and no you don't have to agree to those terms. If you don't agree, I don't buy it. If it is pirate-able and you don't sell it to me at the price I might pirate it, but since I wouldn't have bought it in the first place you don't actually lose anything either.
While you call it "justifying theft" I call it simple economics. If someone has something that is infinitely reproducible at NO cost, why should I pay an unjustifiably high price for something that cost zero to make.
Inb4 rant about "paying the artist, creator, etc..." yes they need to do more than just create a product, that's what happens in an over-saturated market with extremely low scarcity.
bluh, why did I write this long tirade? I'm done arguing with trolls!
Oh wait! I see the analogy you were trying to make now. Comparing auto-repair to content creation. The problem here is that auto-repair men do not repair one car and then copy that repair and sell it to other people. No he has to repair the car. every. single. time.
But woe to the poor poor musician who has to "create" content (his job) in order to make money! Why can't his job be like the auto-repair man who only has to repair one car and live the rest of his life off that one act!?
There is infinite in real life, limited only by processing speed and disk space.
Yes, intangible goods DO have value, but if I am the one buying then I am the one who assigns that value. Though in this article specifically the problem is that the publishers are offering a tangible good at a too-high price, usually for their profit not the creators, and other people are offering an intangible product faster, better, and for free.
"And if the cost of producing (creating) something exceeds to money that would be made from that product then that product will NOT be created."
too bad for that person then, they should have made a better product. Someone else will make a product that will make them a profit regardless of piracy (or maybe thanks to it), and people will enjoy it regardless of whether or not someone else made a product that failed.
Well, they are kids, and none of them want to pay for an overpriced manga in a bookstore where their money goes to who knows where, they want to support the author. It's up to the author to decide how to monetize his work, the kids were just giving suggestions. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, find a new one that does. Same as ANY business not just entertainment.
The problem is that manga sold in the US is so far behind and disconnected with the Japanese market, and the fans want to be caught up, they want manga. If the publishers have the product and have the market, but don't seize it, then it's the publishers fault, not the author, not the fans.
To the first question, nothing yet I'm a student, though sometimes I provide free labor as a favor.
To the rest of your argument, I'm sorry your so bum hurt that art and music has no real scarcity since it can be copied and reused infinity, but that's the way the world works. If you could create a copy of a tangible object at no real cost of say a car than guess what everyone would be "pirating". Cars.
Instead of complaining about the difference in the auto market and the entertainment industry maybe you should be grateful of all the new ways that have appeared to monetize on said entertainment?
so you're saying that unpopular works should make a ton of money just because someone put some effort into making something? of course popular sites would make more money through a donation button! Same with other forms of monetization, if something isn't popular than less people will buy it or it's associated merchandise, therefore less money.
well, actually SOPA and ACTA were the exception, until them we couldn't stop the 15 odd IP expansion laws before SOPA/PIPA and ACTA. Namely it's a sign that things are changing and we the "average citizen" are making a bigger impact in what law makers are doing (which is a good thing!)
maybe the "real-world marketing" needs a little revising since in the real world the thought "The user MUST BUY our product and never be able to get it in any other way." is laughably naive.
Re: Re: Re: Re: My reasons for reading Scanlations
which is where the Internet comes in! There are a lot of artist using the internet to promote their comics now, mostly in the form of webcomics. While their are a lot of mediocre webcomics, if you look it's easy to find some truly amazing comics in many different genres (none of them Marvel style super heroes *gasp*!). There are even a few who have started to support themselves off their comics as well.
I bought a few series, mostly because I really enjoyed it and wanted a physical copy, but that's it. Depending on the series length it could be anywhere from 100-400 dollars to buy the whole thing, so it's too expensive to buy "everything" I read, not even most actually.
If the someone made a cookie, that could be copied an infinite amount of times but decided that selling it to me wasn't worth it, but someone else who bought a cookie and made their own copies gave it to me for free, then of course I would take that cookie
hmmm.. this is why I'm so glad for all the new opportunities the Internet offers to route around publishers :P
The western comic industry was similarly shafted by our publishers, but that happened a while back, ironically by the devices of Marvel and DC themselves.
bluh... this is exactly what people are talking about when they say the patent system is broke.
also,
"The "Clevescene" story above does not identify the patents or link to the actual legal filing (why don't news sites do that?!?), but after looking around..."
On the post: Content Creators: Control Is An Illusion And That's A Good Thing
Re: Re: Another point in that direction
On the post: Content Creators: Control Is An Illusion And That's A Good Thing
Re: Re: Hypothetically Speaking
On the post: Content Creators: Control Is An Illusion And That's A Good Thing
Re: Re:
On the post: Content Creators: Control Is An Illusion And That's A Good Thing
Ideas are built off each other, kind of like math equations.
Gauss didn't have to pay Newton (or Leibniz depending on who you ask) when he used calculus to derive Gauss's Law. Neither was he sued for actually using Coulombs Law within Gauss's Law either.
If they treated math equations like they treated "patentable Ideas" today, I could only imagine where we'd be scientifically.
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:tard
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: It's not generational
"Nothing wrong with the product, no one is going to 'create' a better one, as it did exactly as intended."
There was something wrong with it, it was too expensive to justify it's purpose. And the thought that no one will create a better cheaper version is a defeatist attitude.
"Companies invest in new product, in doing so they take on an amount of risk, sometimes it pays off somtimes it does not, but either way someone has to pay for its development and creation. Things dont just pop out of thin air."
You answered that yourself, the companies pay for its development, therefore it did not just "pop" out of thin air.
"Do you honestly believe you have to right to dictate the price you are willing to pay for a produce you deem to be 'intangable' ?? That is quite bizzar !! really, your saying I would have to sell you my product at the price you tell me I will get for it, and I HAVE to accept the 'terms' of that contract or agreement ?"
Yes I have the right to dictate how much I will pay for a product, and no you don't have to agree to those terms. If you don't agree, I don't buy it. If it is pirate-able and you don't sell it to me at the price I might pirate it, but since I wouldn't have bought it in the first place you don't actually lose anything either.
While you call it "justifying theft" I call it simple economics. If someone has something that is infinitely reproducible at NO cost, why should I pay an unjustifiably high price for something that cost zero to make.
Inb4 rant about "paying the artist, creator, etc..." yes they need to do more than just create a product, that's what happens in an over-saturated market with extremely low scarcity.
bluh, why did I write this long tirade? I'm done arguing with trolls!
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
But woe to the poor poor musician who has to "create" content (his job) in order to make money! Why can't his job be like the auto-repair man who only has to repair one car and live the rest of his life off that one act!?
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: It's not generational
Yes, intangible goods DO have value, but if I am the one buying then I am the one who assigns that value. Though in this article specifically the problem is that the publishers are offering a tangible good at a too-high price, usually for their profit not the creators, and other people are offering an intangible product faster, better, and for free.
"And if the cost of producing (creating) something exceeds to money that would be made from that product then that product will NOT be created."
too bad for that person then, they should have made a better product. Someone else will make a product that will make them a profit regardless of piracy (or maybe thanks to it), and people will enjoy it regardless of whether or not someone else made a product that failed.
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The problem is that manga sold in the US is so far behind and disconnected with the Japanese market, and the fans want to be caught up, they want manga. If the publishers have the product and have the market, but don't seize it, then it's the publishers fault, not the author, not the fans.
My argument in this comment:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120322/15404918215/we-dont-want-everything-free-we-just -want-everything.shtml#c346
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
To the rest of your argument, I'm sorry your so bum hurt that art and music has no real scarcity since it can be copied and reused infinity, but that's the way the world works. If you could create a copy of a tangible object at no real cost of say a car than guess what everyone would be "pirating". Cars.
Instead of complaining about the difference in the auto market and the entertainment industry maybe you should be grateful of all the new ways that have appeared to monetize on said entertainment?
On the post: Finding Success In A Wasteland By Being Open, Human And Awesome
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re:
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re:
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Perception problem
hey, guys I'm beginning to think this troll doesn't really know what he's talking about! *gasp*!
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Nice...
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: Re: My reasons for reading Scanlations
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: My reasons for reading Scanlations
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: We Don't Want Everything For Free. We Just Want Everything
Re: Re: My reasons for reading Scanlations
The western comic industry was similarly shafted by our publishers, but that happened a while back, ironically by the devices of Marvel and DC themselves.
If you don't know that story, it's actually pretty interesting. A good description of it here:
http://vividstuff.blogspot.com/2008/12/article-3-score-one-for-idiocy-aka.html
On the post: Cleveland Bus System Joins Over 100 Others In Being Sued For Patent Infringement For Notifying People If A Bus Is Running Late
also,
"The "Clevescene" story above does not identify the patents or link to the actual legal filing (why don't news sites do that?!?), but after looking around..."
And who says Mike never provides sources?
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