All they would have had to do was take the phone and get the info that was requested and give the phone and the info back. The phone would still be locked and unable to be accessed, Apple would not be in the spot they are in now, and the government would have the information they requested. But nooooo, apple wanted to play hard ball so they cant whine and complain about it now.
And considering they just lost over a half a billion dollar court case that proved Apple stole programs from other companies and then used them in their phones and tablets and claimed them as theirs (http://fortune.com/2016/02/03/apple-virnetx/) and now not only has to pay a 600,000,000 + fine but has to pay a royalty on each and every phone and tablet that these programs are included in, but they are also taking a major hit in sales because of a chinese company that is making better phones with more features and more hard drive space (some of them have up to 600GB of space) and are thinner then the phones and tablets of Apple and cost about a third. Not to mention they are selling like hotcakes in South Korea and the North Americas (Apples own back yard). And the phones are Android based plus allows you to install anything you wish on it unlike apple. AND when you add in the fact that their stock is taking a major hit on costs, its not looking good for Apple right about now. And finally add in the simple fact that Apple has let go close to 10,000 employees to cut costs, and the writings on the wall. Apple is in deep trouble. And NO CEO costs a company close to a Billion dollars because of stupidity and expects to stay CEO, so Cook might be shown the door very soon.
No they dont. Not every court is required to accept or take into consideration another courts decision. They can if they so choose but are not required to do so. The SSM case is clear proof of that when the 6th US District Court refused to even consider other courts decisions. Nice try but fail.
Then you really need to check on your facts. I have looked in every US Supreme Court decision where the term "coding" is even mentioned in any way and have yet to find even one case where it was ruled by the majority that it is free speech. Same result in the US Library of Congress. fail number 2.
And how can you insist that it has come up when the US Supreme Court Archives clearly show it didnt, and the US Library of Congress says the exact same thing? Are you now going to claim that they are all wrong and you are the correct one? Do you have any idea how that sounds for you to claim you know more then the Supreme Court and the Library of Congress? fail 3
And I have already given my sources as to why Apple is going to lose on this issue...so why do you want me to repost them whn you refuse to accept them the first time they were posted?
Sorry to bust your bubble yet again but when I click on the tab (reply to this) I cant help what thesite does to the post now can I?
And Not all judges listen to other courts, case in point. the 9th said Yes to SSM, the 6th said No. Now if its like you say then the 6th should have took notice of the 9ths decision, right?
And no code is NOT speech anywhere but in the court stated. And since that courts jurisdiction does not enclose the whole US, that decision is only valid in in that courts jurisdiction. That is in the following states ONLY
District of Connecticut (New Haven, Hartford, Bridgeport) Eastern District of New York (Brooklyn, Central Islip) Northern District of New York (Albany, Binghamton, Plattsburgh, Syracuse, Utica) Southern District of New York (Manhattan, White Plains) Western District of New York (Buffalo) District of Vermont (Burlington, Rutland, Brattleboro)
It has no legal authority outside these states. Look up the US District Courts and even they will tell you that. So you can use whatever terms you want, but the fact remains that the US Supreme Court has NOT and is not in any hurry to decide that coding is a 1st amendment right as you are claiming. Look it up on supremecourt.gov in their archives and you will see I am correct and you sadly are not.
So maybe you should take your own advice? And I see that you still have not stated what your background is that you can state that I am wrong unless it is clearly only your OPINION and not fact.
Nice try at obfuscation and spin, but your smoke and mirrors attempt fails miserably.
Little hint, I DO click the reply tab. Now you can apologize for your ignorance.
And again there is NOTHING in any of these decisions saying coding is protected by the first amendment either. The only ones who made that decision is the 2nd Circuit court and that means child that this decision is only enforceable in the 2nd Circuit. Apple is located in the NINTH Circuit and as such this decision bears no legal meaning in this case. Nice try but major fail. The ONLY way this would be the ruling all over the US is IF the US Supreme Court heard the case and upheld it, and they have not.
Before you start talking about the legal ramifications, it would do you a major amount of good if you actually KNEW a little about the law and the Constitution. I have been studying the US Constitution for over 40 years and can state chapter and verse what is and what is not in there. And when I was in the Military before I retired and was sent TDY, I spent almost a year in a JAG office. And you dont sit around with attorneys all day for almost a year and not learn something.
So your background in trying to say I am wrong is what exactly?
Nice spin attempt. NOTHING is ANY of these decisions equates information on your cell as protected by the 1st Amendment. NOTHING in these decisions say that asking Apple or any other company to give information that was demanded by a court order is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
And you missed this decision in 2014 where it says the Supreme Court has ruled police just cannot up and take your cell phone and snoop through it...UNLESS THEY HAVE A VALID COURT ORDER!! http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/28/opinion/cevallos-police-search-cell-phone/ And what destroys your whole argument is the FBI DID HAVE a valid court order for the information.
Only to you maybe, to any other person he is stating that nobody has been killed by terrorists in the US and that is simply not true.
You can try and sugar coat it or twist it any way you wish, but the fact remains what his intention for the statement was. And I notice that he has never denied it
Sorry, but there is nothing in US law nor any Supreme Court decision or Congress passed bill that even equates writing code as a form of free speech. And until it is classified as such then thre is nothig that can be claimed.
Sorry to tell you that your post is wrong from the get go
I agree with you 100%. Apple could very well have taken this phone and unlocked it with it in THEIR possession, then relocked it and handed it back with the info requested to the Feds. The Feds got what they wanted and Apple gets to keep doing what it wanted. Apple screwed up and refused. Now on March 22nd they are going to get nailed and there is nothing they can do about it
Nothing in the Constitution about unlocking cell phones of dead terrorists. In fact the Constitution does not say this is a crime in any way. So what are you bringing the Constitution into this for?
And that is the other groups problem to deal with Apple for or about. All the FBI wants is one stupid phone and there is no way that Apple can keep denying this. They are going to lose this case and lose it big time as they are trying to claim that making this code or breaking this phone is a violation of the 1st Amendment. Sorry but even the Constitutional experts like Laurence Tribe are saying that this argument will not fly and will not work as the same argument could be made for laptops and so on and no court in the country has ever accepted this argument as realistic or a legal defense.
All it is going to take is for the FBI to bring just one set of grieving parents before a camera and have them ask Apple why they are blocking the investigation, and its all over for Apple as public sentiment will shift against them so fast it will look like a tidal wave hit them. Already over 50% of the public is saying that Apple should do the right thing and unlock this one phone with only 30% saying they shouldnt. Meaning the majority of the US is telling Apple to unlock the stupid phone.
This is not going to bode well for Apple as they are already losing money and stock price according to the Wall Street Journal and the NYSE. And China is building cell phones that do everything Apple's does and more, with larger screens and more useful applications, for about a third of what Apple's cost and are taking a massive bite out of Apples bottom line in South Korea and the North American countries. And Apple is feeling the pressure. And now this? Apple is in deep trouble if this farce continues.
Sorry but yes he did. Look up the phrase "had a better chance of getting hit by lightning then being shot or harmed by a terrorist" and see what that means.
The odds of you being struck by lightning is 1 in 700,000 per year and then you multiply the 700,000 by every year you are alive. Meaning the older you get the less likely you are going to be struck by lightning. Now since it is already a 1 in 700,000 chance of being hit by lightning, then Dragon is saying that the odds against you being shot or killed by a terrorist in the US are much greater. And in this he is essentially saying that nobody has been killed or shot by a terrorist with odds against it happening being that high.
And I guess you missed the letter to Apple by FBI Director Comey that clearly said all they want is the info from THIS phone. And even the CEO of Apple stated the exact same thing on the ABC-NBC-CBS-CNN-MSNBC-and Fox where ALL of them replayed his interview.
So are you calling him a liar now? Or are you willing to admit that you are wrong and that Comey is right and that all they want is the information on this phone. Even Comey admitted that they offered Apple the phone and asked them to take off the information they wanted and keep the rest of it locked up, and Apple refused.
Apple is going to lose this case and they are going to be fined a major amount of money on March 22nd. And I doubt that if you are a CEO and cost your company a couple hundred million dollars because of your ego, that you will stay the CEO.
Oh and you might want to look at the Wall Street Journal's NY Stock Exchange. Seems Apple stock has dropped about 15% since this started. And considering that Chinese cell phone makers are making better phones with more features at a third of Apples cost, it is seriously eating into their market share in their backyards of South Korea and North America and they are losing money BIG time there. Thats why they had to lay off over 3000 people in the last 2 years and more layoffs are coming because of this.
Fine, go right ahead and let them change countries. And the US Government then can put an embargo on ALL Apple products and not let them into the country. I mean Apple does have over 100 Billion dollars in off shore accounts so they dont have to pay taxes on it here...so the US Government can come along and ban them from selling anything in the US until they pay the taxes on that money and there is nothing Apple can do about it.
Not to mention that Apple is facing a new threat. China is producing cell phones just as good and in most cases better then Apple or Samsung with the same abilities as an Apple or Samsung at a third of the price. And they are selling these in Apple's back yard and cutting into their bottom line, as they are selling these in Korea and the US and making a bundle.
Sorry, but thats NOT the law. There is NOTHING in US law that says this can happen. I noticed that you didnt cite any law, so that just makes it your opinion and like everyone has a butt, they have an opinion. Sadly yours stinks.
My close friend Martha Punches, lost her daughter in an apartment fire. She had a skype and twitter and facebook account. Martha went to all three and showed them via a death certificate that Laura had passed and all she did was want access to these accounts. She showed them she was Lauras mother and gave them every type of document she could to prove it, and all three absolutely refused to allow Lauras own mother to have access to her daughters accounts. Martha had to hire an attorney and actually SUE them to gain access.
Thats just wrong. And Apple knows it.
And as for being killed by a terrorist? Yea right. Tell that to the Boston Marathon Bombing survivors, or the meat Packing shooting Survivors, or the California shooting survivors, or the Military base shooting survivors or the people hurt by 9-11. Try telling them that they had a better chance of getting hit by lighting then being shot or harmed by a terrorist and dont be too shocked when they laugh at you and then punch you in the face
Sorry but Apple brought this on themselves.
And considering they just lost over a half a billion dollar court case that proved Apple stole programs from other companies and then used them in their phones and tablets and claimed them as theirs (http://fortune.com/2016/02/03/apple-virnetx/) and now not only has to pay a 600,000,000 + fine but has to pay a royalty on each and every phone and tablet that these programs are included in, but they are also taking a major hit in sales because of a chinese company that is making better phones with more features and more hard drive space (some of them have up to 600GB of space) and are thinner then the phones and tablets of Apple and cost about a third. Not to mention they are selling like hotcakes in South Korea and the North Americas (Apples own back yard). And the phones are Android based plus allows you to install anything you wish on it unlike apple. AND when you add in the fact that their stock is taking a major hit on costs, its not looking good for Apple right about now. And finally add in the simple fact that Apple has let go close to 10,000 employees to cut costs, and the writings on the wall. Apple is in deep trouble. And NO CEO costs a company close to a Billion dollars because of stupidity and expects to stay CEO, so Cook might be shown the door very soon.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Then you really need to check on your facts. I have looked in every US Supreme Court decision where the term "coding" is even mentioned in any way and have yet to find even one case where it was ruled by the majority that it is free speech. Same result in the US Library of Congress. fail number 2.
And how can you insist that it has come up when the US Supreme Court Archives clearly show it didnt, and the US Library of Congress says the exact same thing? Are you now going to claim that they are all wrong and you are the correct one? Do you have any idea how that sounds for you to claim you know more then the Supreme Court and the Library of Congress? fail 3
And I have already given my sources as to why Apple is going to lose on this issue...so why do you want me to repost them whn you refuse to accept them the first time they were posted?
Re: Re: Re: Re:
And Not all judges listen to other courts, case in point. the 9th said Yes to SSM, the 6th said No. Now if its like you say then the 6th should have took notice of the 9ths decision, right?
And no code is NOT speech anywhere but in the court stated. And since that courts jurisdiction does not enclose the whole US, that decision is only valid in in that courts jurisdiction. That is in the following states ONLY
District of Connecticut (New Haven, Hartford, Bridgeport)
Eastern District of New York (Brooklyn, Central Islip)
Northern District of New York (Albany, Binghamton, Plattsburgh, Syracuse, Utica)
Southern District of New York (Manhattan, White Plains)
Western District of New York (Buffalo)
District of Vermont (Burlington, Rutland, Brattleboro)
It has no legal authority outside these states. Look up the US District Courts and even they will tell you that. So you can use whatever terms you want, but the fact remains that the US Supreme Court has NOT and is not in any hurry to decide that coding is a 1st amendment right as you are claiming. Look it up on supremecourt.gov in their archives and you will see I am correct and you sadly are not.
So maybe you should take your own advice? And I see that you still have not stated what your background is that you can state that I am wrong unless it is clearly only your OPINION and not fact.
Nice try at obfuscation and spin, but your smoke and mirrors attempt fails miserably.
Re: Re:
And again there is NOTHING in any of these decisions saying coding is protected by the first amendment either. The only ones who made that decision is the 2nd Circuit court and that means child that this decision is only enforceable in the 2nd Circuit. Apple is located in the NINTH Circuit and as such this decision bears no legal meaning in this case. Nice try but major fail. The ONLY way this would be the ruling all over the US is IF the US Supreme Court heard the case and upheld it, and they have not.
Before you start talking about the legal ramifications, it would do you a major amount of good if you actually KNEW a little about the law and the Constitution. I have been studying the US Constitution for over 40 years and can state chapter and verse what is and what is not in there. And when I was in the Military before I retired and was sent TDY, I spent almost a year in a JAG office. And you dont sit around with attorneys all day for almost a year and not learn something.
So your background in trying to say I am wrong is what exactly?
(untitled comment)
And you missed this decision in 2014 where it says the Supreme Court has ruled police just cannot up and take your cell phone and snoop through it...UNLESS THEY HAVE A VALID COURT ORDER!! http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/28/opinion/cevallos-police-search-cell-phone/ And what destroys your whole argument is the FBI DID HAVE a valid court order for the information.
Game set and match, you lose.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doubt it Dragon
And again if I am wrong then where is his posts saying that I am wrong, oh thats right....they dont exist!
And I dont have to deny anything as I am not the one that made the original post.
Not to quick on the uptake are you?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doubt it Dragon
You can try and sugar coat it or twist it any way you wish, but the fact remains what his intention for the statement was. And I notice that he has never denied it
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This is utter BS
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This is utter BS
Sorry to tell you that your post is wrong from the get go
Re: Re: Re: Apple lies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doubt it Dragon
Re: Re: Re: Re: This is utter BS
All it is going to take is for the FBI to bring just one set of grieving parents before a camera and have them ask Apple why they are blocking the investigation, and its all over for Apple as public sentiment will shift against them so fast it will look like a tidal wave hit them. Already over 50% of the public is saying that Apple should do the right thing and unlock this one phone with only 30% saying they shouldnt. Meaning the majority of the US is telling Apple to unlock the stupid phone.
This is not going to bode well for Apple as they are already losing money and stock price according to the Wall Street Journal and the NYSE. And China is building cell phones that do everything Apple's does and more, with larger screens and more useful applications, for about a third of what Apple's cost and are taking a massive bite out of Apples bottom line in South Korea and the North American countries. And Apple is feeling the pressure. And now this? Apple is in deep trouble if this farce continues.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Doubt it Dragon
The odds of you being struck by lightning is 1 in 700,000 per year and then you multiply the 700,000 by every year you are alive. Meaning the older you get the less likely you are going to be struck by lightning. Now since it is already a 1 in 700,000 chance of being hit by lightning, then Dragon is saying that the odds against you being shot or killed by a terrorist in the US are much greater. And in this he is essentially saying that nobody has been killed or shot by a terrorist with odds against it happening being that high.
I proved him wrong. Simple math and fact.
Re: Re: This is utter BS
Re: Re: Doubt it Dragon
Nice try but massive fail
Re: Re: This is utter BS
So are you calling him a liar now? Or are you willing to admit that you are wrong and that Comey is right and that all they want is the information on this phone. Even Comey admitted that they offered Apple the phone and asked them to take off the information they wanted and keep the rest of it locked up, and Apple refused.
Apple is going to lose this case and they are going to be fined a major amount of money on March 22nd. And I doubt that if you are a CEO and cost your company a couple hundred million dollars because of your ego, that you will stay the CEO.
Oh and you might want to look at the Wall Street Journal's NY Stock Exchange. Seems Apple stock has dropped about 15% since this started. And considering that Chinese cell phone makers are making better phones with more features at a third of Apples cost, it is seriously eating into their market share in their backyards of South Korea and North America and they are losing money BIG time there. Thats why they had to lay off over 3000 people in the last 2 years and more layoffs are coming because of this.
Re: Gates Understands Perfectly
Not to mention that Apple is facing a new threat. China is producing cell phones just as good and in most cases better then Apple or Samsung with the same abilities as an Apple or Samsung at a third of the price. And they are selling these in Apple's back yard and cutting into their bottom line, as they are selling these in Korea and the US and making a bundle.
Re: Re: Doubt it Dragon
Re: Re: This is utter BS
Doubt it Dragon
Thats just wrong. And Apple knows it.
And as for being killed by a terrorist? Yea right. Tell that to the Boston Marathon Bombing survivors, or the meat Packing shooting Survivors, or the California shooting survivors, or the Military base shooting survivors or the people hurt by 9-11. Try telling them that they had a better chance of getting hit by lighting then being shot or harmed by a terrorist and dont be too shocked when they laugh at you and then punch you in the face
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