My residential customers need more education. A good lock is a good start - the window beside the door also needs fortification.
Government, military and commercial customers are more aware of their vulnerabilities. Often the lock is the strongest part of their security system.
Government and military don't depend on a lock for security. They depend on human guards. That opens a whole other discussion about how dependable a human being is.
A good security system is like an onion. Layers make it difficult for a burglar to achieve his goals. A good lock, even if it is not UL437, an alarm system to let you know when the door has been opened and a safe for what the burglar really wants is a very effective system. These are all products that I sell.
Peace of mind is different.
I am sure the little old lady knows that a burglar can come in through the window she keeps open at night, but the burglar came through her front door last time. She needs a good night sleep, not top of the line security or a perfect lock.
Many customers are only looking to do their due diligence so their insurance company will cover their losses.
Peace of mind is not security. A full security system is too much for most people. All they want is peace of mind that they are not the easiest target.
It has been a pleasure discussing locks with you. All the best in your endeavors.
Semantics aside. I still do not have a better lock to install for my customers who have lost faith in the locks being criticized on the net.
Many locksmiths I know are well aware of bypassing and opening techniques. We are an organized and educated profession. Many of us became locksmiths because we have an interest in locks and opening them. Just because you found a vulnerability in a lock does not mean you are the first. Making the vulnerability public does not make you Robin Hood.
Real people get burgled. Real people have their prised possessions scattered around their house and lose thousands of dollars of valuables in burglaries. Real people.
That is why locksmiths are not so quick to tell the public "this is how you defeat this lock". We often help clean up the mess after a burglar has left.
Yes padlocks can be opened, and no I don`t tell my customer`s that it is possible for a padlock to be opened with bolt cutters. I also do not tell my customers that the lock they are buying is perfect.
I sell peace of mind. The old lady who is worried that a burglar is going to hurt her dog sleeps better believing that bad men cannot open her door. Why do you want to take that away?
Instead of tearing down the products that people have built, why not try to improve them. Work within the system. Don't kick down the sandcastle, grab a pale and put up a new turret.
Here is an example from my career: Mul-T-Lock keys have a larger plastic head than most keys. Since I also sell access control systems I recommended Mul-T-Lock add a proximity keyfob in the head of their keys. It took years, but now we have the Synerkey. Three keys in one!
It is not perfect but people like to have less keys in their pockets. It does the job.
Should we start talking about alarm system bypassing techniques?
There is a saying that I keep in mind when someone asks me if a lock is un-openable: Made by man, broken by man. Every lock that will ever be made will have a weakness.
'"If the best locks in the world are not good enough, what do you recommend we replace them with?"
The answer is better locks'
By definition there are no better locks then the best.
You are telling burglars how to break into our homes and businesses. You could have chosen to tell the lock manufactures only - giving them time to improve their products before burglars found out.
Do a Google search for "Medecoder" and the first hit is "Build your own Medecoder".
Are you proud of teaching burglars how to defeat our best locks? You sound proud.
Locksmiths are proud of being able to protect people and belongings. Yes we need new techniques. Perhaps one is to pass a law against groups that expose and publish break and enter techniques.
I can tell you from personal experience that Toronto locksmith suppliers do not sell pick guns, picks or other locksmith tools to the general public. They quickly get a service call from a police office if that happens. It is easy to enforce local laws.
I still have no idea what you are trying to do. There is no benefit to society from your public display of defeating locks.
In the real world (as opposed to the information world) when a vulnerability is discovered it can take years to implement a solution.
If we tell the burglars how to exploit a vulnerability then we will have hundreds of thousands of burglaries instead of just a few.
There is no quick fix, like changing a cipher. Once the lock is improved it is often advertised as being superior to the prior model.
I just read an article saying that UL437 standards are not useful because they are not stringent enough for the author. In fact, the requirements of UL437 are simpler than one would expect - still they satisfy the insurance companies.
Remember that locks meeting the UL437 requirements are the best locks in the world. The manufactures have spent tens of thousands of dollars testing them against professional standards.
If the best locks in the world are not good enough then what are you really suggesting? Don't lock your door?
When better locks are available we offer them in place of the older locks. Some people are willing to invest in the better locks, some are not.
I am happy to recommend Mul-T-Lock products to my customers. My customers have not experienced a successful attack through this lock.
If you discover a tool that can open locks - let's call it a Sonic Screwdriver - should high security companies inform the public about this device? No of course not. Don't tell anyone! Behind closed doors attack the makers of this product. Anyone who makes burglary tools and sells them to the general public should be charged.
It is easy to kick down a sandcastle. It is much harder to build a better one to take it's place. In the meantime there is no sandcastle.
The lock manufactures are being blamed because an old picking technique has become public knowledge. '999' or lock bumping. Picking isn't new. The information that is now public is not new. Nothing has really changed except the public is aware that locks can be picked.
Mul-T-Lock has always been bump resistant. For many years it was un-pickable. Then some locksmiths invested hundreds of hours learning to pick the un-pickable locks.
Mul-T-Lock immediately improved it's pick-resistance. Adding top pins that create a false shear line. Then adding mushroom shaped bottom pins. More recently adding a pin that splits apart when bumped.
Cordless drills have become more powerful in the last few decades so Mul-T-Lock added stainless steel pins to make it harder to drill the cylinder.
When I reviewed high security locks to sell I became very impressed with all UL437 cylinders. They offer more quality than most common cylinders and great ideas to prevent unauthorized key copying, drilling and picking of the cylinder.
I chose Mul-T-Lock to sell because it offered more features to my customers. This has become more true over the years as Mul-T-Lock has improved it's products.
My question: "If the best locks in the world are not good enough, what do you recommend we replace them with?"
A mass produced lock is designed for the mass market. They are serviced by Locksmiths and do a fair job of securing the customer until something happens. Then locks evolve.
The skeleton key forced the industry to re-invent the lock and key. Bit keys were excellent security when they were first used.
When knowledge of skeleton keys became common people had to pay locksmiths to change their locks.
The saw-toothed para-centric key, commonly used today is being replaced by high security UL437 rated keys. High security locks and keys are not perfect.
Locksmiths keep secrets to protect their customers.
People who tell burglars how to get past locks are only helping the burglars, not earning my respect. If only he could keep a secret...
I stand by my comment about people taking joy in kicking down other people's work (sandcastles).
Let's see these hackers and lock pickers design a better lock instead of just saying the best locks in the world are not good enough.
Medeco has earned the UL 437 rating. That means that it is good enough for the insurance companies.
It is not easy to get a UL 437 rating and they should have earned your respect for investing the money, time and expertise in making one of the best locks in the world.
I am not a Medeco dealer. I prefer Mul-T-Lock. I realize that if I am called out to open a door for a customer and there is a UL437 rated lock on the door I am not picking that lock. I am opening the door using a bypassing technique.
I look forward to seeing the perfect lock that Marc Weber Tobias invents - if he ever does.
Techdirt has not posted any stories submitted by Jason Scheide, Locksmith.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Still Kicking Down Sandcastles
My residential customers need more education. A good lock is a good start - the window beside the door also needs fortification.
Government, military and commercial customers are more aware of their vulnerabilities. Often the lock is the strongest part of their security system.
Government and military don't depend on a lock for security. They depend on human guards. That opens a whole other discussion about how dependable a human being is.
A good security system is like an onion. Layers make it difficult for a burglar to achieve his goals. A good lock, even if it is not UL437, an alarm system to let you know when the door has been opened and a safe for what the burglar really wants is a very effective system. These are all products that I sell.
Peace of mind is different.
I am sure the little old lady knows that a burglar can come in through the window she keeps open at night, but the burglar came through her front door last time. She needs a good night sleep, not top of the line security or a perfect lock.
Many customers are only looking to do their due diligence so their insurance company will cover their losses.
Peace of mind is not security. A full security system is too much for most people. All they want is peace of mind that they are not the easiest target.
It has been a pleasure discussing locks with you. All the best in your endeavors.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Still Kicking Down Sandcastles
Many locksmiths I know are well aware of bypassing and opening techniques. We are an organized and educated profession. Many of us became locksmiths because we have an interest in locks and opening them. Just because you found a vulnerability in a lock does not mean you are the first. Making the vulnerability public does not make you Robin Hood.
Real people get burgled. Real people have their prised possessions scattered around their house and lose thousands of dollars of valuables in burglaries. Real people.
That is why locksmiths are not so quick to tell the public "this is how you defeat this lock". We often help clean up the mess after a burglar has left.
Yes padlocks can be opened, and no I don`t tell my customer`s that it is possible for a padlock to be opened with bolt cutters. I also do not tell my customers that the lock they are buying is perfect.
I sell peace of mind. The old lady who is worried that a burglar is going to hurt her dog sleeps better believing that bad men cannot open her door. Why do you want to take that away?
Instead of tearing down the products that people have built, why not try to improve them. Work within the system. Don't kick down the sandcastle, grab a pale and put up a new turret.
Here is an example from my career: Mul-T-Lock keys have a larger plastic head than most keys. Since I also sell access control systems I recommended Mul-T-Lock add a proximity keyfob in the head of their keys. It took years, but now we have the Synerkey. Three keys in one!
It is not perfect but people like to have less keys in their pockets. It does the job.
Should we start talking about alarm system bypassing techniques?
There is a saying that I keep in mind when someone asks me if a lock is un-openable: Made by man, broken by man. Every lock that will ever be made will have a weakness.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Still Kicking Down Sandcastles
'"If the best locks in the world are not good enough, what do you recommend we replace them with?"
The answer is better locks'
By definition there are no better locks then the best.
You are telling burglars how to break into our homes and businesses. You could have chosen to tell the lock manufactures only - giving them time to improve their products before burglars found out.
Do a Google search for "Medecoder" and the first hit is "Build your own Medecoder".
Are you proud of teaching burglars how to defeat our best locks? You sound proud.
Locksmiths are proud of being able to protect people and belongings. Yes we need new techniques. Perhaps one is to pass a law against groups that expose and publish break and enter techniques.
I can tell you from personal experience that Toronto locksmith suppliers do not sell pick guns, picks or other locksmith tools to the general public. They quickly get a service call from a police office if that happens. It is easy to enforce local laws.
I still have no idea what you are trying to do. There is no benefit to society from your public display of defeating locks.
Are you trying to help me sell alarm systems?
Re: Re: Still Kicking Down Sandcastles
If we tell the burglars how to exploit a vulnerability then we will have hundreds of thousands of burglaries instead of just a few.
There is no quick fix, like changing a cipher. Once the lock is improved it is often advertised as being superior to the prior model.
I just read an article saying that UL437 standards are not useful because they are not stringent enough for the author. In fact, the requirements of UL437 are simpler than one would expect - still they satisfy the insurance companies.
Remember that locks meeting the UL437 requirements are the best locks in the world. The manufactures have spent tens of thousands of dollars testing them against professional standards.
If the best locks in the world are not good enough then what are you really suggesting? Don't lock your door?
When better locks are available we offer them in place of the older locks. Some people are willing to invest in the better locks, some are not.
I am happy to recommend Mul-T-Lock products to my customers. My customers have not experienced a successful attack through this lock.
If you discover a tool that can open locks - let's call it a Sonic Screwdriver - should high security companies inform the public about this device? No of course not. Don't tell anyone! Behind closed doors attack the makers of this product. Anyone who makes burglary tools and sells them to the general public should be charged.
It is easy to kick down a sandcastle. It is much harder to build a better one to take it's place. In the meantime there is no sandcastle.
The lock manufactures are being blamed because an old picking technique has become public knowledge. '999' or lock bumping. Picking isn't new. The information that is now public is not new. Nothing has really changed except the public is aware that locks can be picked.
Mul-T-Lock has always been bump resistant. For many years it was un-pickable. Then some locksmiths invested hundreds of hours learning to pick the un-pickable locks.
Mul-T-Lock immediately improved it's pick-resistance. Adding top pins that create a false shear line. Then adding mushroom shaped bottom pins. More recently adding a pin that splits apart when bumped.
Cordless drills have become more powerful in the last few decades so Mul-T-Lock added stainless steel pins to make it harder to drill the cylinder.
When I reviewed high security locks to sell I became very impressed with all UL437 cylinders. They offer more quality than most common cylinders and great ideas to prevent unauthorized key copying, drilling and picking of the cylinder.
I chose Mul-T-Lock to sell because it offered more features to my customers. This has become more true over the years as Mul-T-Lock has improved it's products.
My question: "If the best locks in the world are not good enough, what do you recommend we replace them with?"
Still Kicking Down Sandcastles
The skeleton key forced the industry to re-invent the lock and key. Bit keys were excellent security when they were first used.
When knowledge of skeleton keys became common people had to pay locksmiths to change their locks.
The saw-toothed para-centric key, commonly used today is being replaced by high security UL437 rated keys. High security locks and keys are not perfect.
Locksmiths keep secrets to protect their customers.
People who tell burglars how to get past locks are only helping the burglars, not earning my respect. If only he could keep a secret...
Kicking Down Sandcastles
Let's see these hackers and lock pickers design a better lock instead of just saying the best locks in the world are not good enough.
Medeco has earned the UL 437 rating. That means that it is good enough for the insurance companies.
It is not easy to get a UL 437 rating and they should have earned your respect for investing the money, time and expertise in making one of the best locks in the world.
I am not a Medeco dealer. I prefer Mul-T-Lock. I realize that if I am called out to open a door for a customer and there is a UL437 rated lock on the door I am not picking that lock. I am opening the door using a bypassing technique.
I look forward to seeing the perfect lock that Marc Weber Tobias invents - if he ever does.
Techdirt has not posted any stories submitted by Jason Scheide, Locksmith.
Submit a story now.
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