I would like to see hard core "real" numbers of how working musicians are making more money from giving things away. I don't want this typical redundant rhetoric I've heard a million times before. Give me real solid examples (and I don't want to hear about Nine Inch Nails). And I don't want to hear about the upper 10%, I want to hear about how the other 90% can monetize, and are monetizing, on free, and paying the mortgage.
It is very naive to compare Google with a working musician. Google isn't really giving anything away. They are zillionaires. You cannot possibly compare Google's (or Nine Inch Nail's) ability to give things away with mine. I have yet to see this in action. Personally, I can't afford to give anything more away. I make a living from music. Do you?
"Can't I compete?" It is clear that if the restaurant across the street gives away excellent (or even half decent) food for free then NO I could not compete. Where is the competition? Yes they would have the right to do it, but I would go out of business very swiftly because naturally people would eat at the free restaurant instead of paying at mine. I could always start giving away my food too, but then that would cost me a lot of money, and what reasonable business person would want to stay in a business like that?
(a musician I guess)
Yes, I have thought this through. I spend a great deal of my professional life thinking this through.
I am not aware of any other business where the participants are so willing to cut their own throats and participate in their own demise.
Who said there aren't plenty of times when you don't have to pay for music (like when you whistle a tune on the bus)? Who said that? This is reductio ad absurdum. We are talking about situations where Performance Rights apply. Maybe you should read up on them.
Open mics are not just frequented by rank beginners but by those at all levels and the Performance Rights apply regardless. I can think of a several examples right in my own city. These venues should not be exempt from paying the fees. They are making money from food and drinks being sold. If they weren't, *they wouldn't do it*. That's business (unless you're a musician, or course)
And it is not the case that when you get "good enough" you will be able to demand money. Where do you get that idea? This is certainly a myth of the highest order. There are dozens of "good" musicians under every rock who can't make money from their work because now they are expected to give it away...cause after all, they're just like Google.
There are plenty of people still willing to (over)pay for music
wow, you're obviously not a working musician
almost all the money goes to the wrong places. RIAA, Record labels and collection agencies
What are you basing this on, exactly? And we're not talking about record labels, that is completely different. We're talking about Performance Rights Groups, collecting money for the performance of music, whether it's on the sound system at a club, on a stage at a club/festival or on (a lot but not enough of) radio. This is a business. There seems to me some misconception that PROs just line their pockets with your money. Where do you get that from? The money goes to songwriters.
We're also talking about intellectual property and those who have it depend on the income it generates in order to make a living. I certainly do.
why should anyone want to [w]ork *with* the system?
I file my performances with SOCAN and get money for that, I get some airplay and I get paid for that.
I love my SOCAN cheques and depend on them to eek out my living as a musician.
If everyone had their way, musicians and all of their music would be free all of the time, and in fact, it seems that it is. Even musicians are chomping at the bit to give away their entire potential livelihood.
re the phone analogy, of course the phone company will charge you even if you don't make a single call!! Are you kidding? I can't think of a single other business that is giving away anything!! PROs are collecting for the good of the musician. If they charge in like bulls in a china shop that's not cool, but don't attack the system that is there for the benefit of musicians, just try to make a friendly arrangement.
re musicians having the right to give their music away. I'll bet you would think differently if there was a venue across the street from yours that was giving away food and booze, all the time. Do you think you'd be saying they have the right to do that?
Open mic nights etc sound so altuistic but they are essential a way of getting free employees to boost your business. Everyone seems to think this is ok. Tell me where is the musician's income supposed to come from? Where, tell me?
The system is far from perfect and many things are being worked out "on the fly" as things change rapidly. Not all of the money goes to the right places, but it is intended for musicians/artists. That's why they collect it!! Work *with* the system, don't fight against it. Of course you have to pay for music wherever and however it appears. Shut up. ASCAP etc....keep on doing your job.
(and musicians...get your shit together!)
Techdirt has not posted any stories submitted by musicianx.
more to music than money
Q: How do you make your living?
Re: Re: free free free
"Can't I compete?" It is clear that if the restaurant across the street gives away excellent (or even half decent) food for free then NO I could not compete. Where is the competition? Yes they would have the right to do it, but I would go out of business very swiftly because naturally people would eat at the free restaurant instead of paying at mine. I could always start giving away my food too, but then that would cost me a lot of money, and what reasonable business person would want to stay in a business like that?
(a musician I guess)
Yes, I have thought this through. I spend a great deal of my professional life thinking this through.
I am not aware of any other business where the participants are so willing to cut their own throats and participate in their own demise.
Who said there aren't plenty of times when you don't have to pay for music (like when you whistle a tune on the bus)? Who said that? This is reductio ad absurdum. We are talking about situations where Performance Rights apply. Maybe you should read up on them.
Open mics are not just frequented by rank beginners but by those at all levels and the Performance Rights apply regardless. I can think of a several examples right in my own city. These venues should not be exempt from paying the fees. They are making money from food and drinks being sold. If they weren't, *they wouldn't do it*. That's business (unless you're a musician, or course)
And it is not the case that when you get "good enough" you will be able to demand money. Where do you get that idea? This is certainly a myth of the highest order. There are dozens of "good" musicians under every rock who can't make money from their work because now they are expected to give it away...cause after all, they're just like Google.
Re:
wow, you're obviously not a working musician
almost all the money goes to the wrong places. RIAA, Record labels and collection agencies
What are you basing this on, exactly? And we're not talking about record labels, that is completely different. We're talking about Performance Rights Groups, collecting money for the performance of music, whether it's on the sound system at a club, on a stage at a club/festival or on (a lot but not enough of) radio. This is a business. There seems to me some misconception that PROs just line their pockets with your money. Where do you get that from? The money goes to songwriters.
We're also talking about intellectual property and those who have it depend on the income it generates in order to make a living. I certainly do.
why should anyone want to [w]ork *with* the system?
I file my performances with SOCAN and get money for that, I get some airplay and I get paid for that.
I love my SOCAN cheques and depend on them to eek out my living as a musician.
free free free
re the phone analogy, of course the phone company will charge you even if you don't make a single call!! Are you kidding? I can't think of a single other business that is giving away anything!! PROs are collecting for the good of the musician. If they charge in like bulls in a china shop that's not cool, but don't attack the system that is there for the benefit of musicians, just try to make a friendly arrangement.
re musicians having the right to give their music away. I'll bet you would think differently if there was a venue across the street from yours that was giving away food and booze, all the time. Do you think you'd be saying they have the right to do that?
Open mic nights etc sound so altuistic but they are essential a way of getting free employees to boost your business. Everyone seems to think this is ok. Tell me where is the musician's income supposed to come from? Where, tell me?
The system is far from perfect and many things are being worked out "on the fly" as things change rapidly. Not all of the money goes to the right places, but it is intended for musicians/artists. That's why they collect it!! Work *with* the system, don't fight against it. Of course you have to pay for music wherever and however it appears. Shut up. ASCAP etc....keep on doing your job.
(and musicians...get your shit together!)
Techdirt has not posted any stories submitted by musicianx.
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