How The Entertainment Industry Plans To Kill DVDs

from the focus,-people,-focus dept

Tue, May 30th 2006 4:08pm — Mike Masnick

The entertainment industry really has a knack for focusing in on the wrong thing at the wrong time. We've already discussed how delivering content on plastic discs is increasingly not going to make sense, and rather than work on making it more appealing, the industry seems to be getting into (yet another) standards battle over what type of annoying copy protection to include on next generation DVDs. Yes, that's right. They're battling over how to make these increasingly obsolete discs even less valuable. There is no consumer benefit at all -- and when those discs now have to compete with other ways of delivering content, that's going to make it an increasingly difficult sell. The entertainment industry is so obsessed with this false belief that all content needs copy protection that they've forgotten that their customers aren't all criminals and that giving them a product they want, rather than one that restricts them unnecessarily, is probably a good idea.

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Steven, 30 May 2006 @ 4:54pm

discs not so obsolete to business
the assumption which guides this entry, that DVDs (and discs in general) are obsolete is enchanting from a technological standpoint, but currently just not true. while there are surely more advanced technologies which could reduce the waste and unneccessary commodification caused by selling media on discs, from a business perspecitve discs are alive and kicking.

DVD sales currently represent one of the largest chunks of revenue from motion pictures, often surpassing theatre grosses. you may not like them, but they sell big and are major revenue movers in the entertainment industry.
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Tim Arview, 30 May 2006 @ 4:57pm

Do I hear crickets?
Hmm...seems stories like this are also becoming less valuable. Yet another catchy headline with little fresh content inside.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 May 2006 @ 5:15pm

Re: Do I hear crickets?
Yeah, I agree with you.

That being said however, maybe if the industry people READ these articles from time to time, or just surfed this site, they might get an idea of what sort of cluster-bugger they are about to get themselves into.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 May 2006 @ 5:26pm

i give it 3 weeks before this next DRM scheme is hacked.
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PopeRatzo, 30 May 2006 @ 5:42pm

Instead of hoping for folks in the entertainment/industrial complex to read articles like these, maybe we should just tell them ourselves.

Or, vote with our pocketbooks, like I do. I will not spend one cent on anything that comes from the entertainment/industrial complex as long as they treat their customers like the enemy. If I can buy music from the artist directlly, I do. As for movies, I'll watch them at friends' houses or borrow their copies of DVDs. Last time I checked, that was still legal, no?

I would be happy to see the entire industry collapse and be rebuilt.
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Josh Tomaino (profile), 30 May 2006 @ 5:45pm

3 weeks?
I give it 3 days, depending how fast people want to get their hands on the copy protected dvd's.

I download music (not really! just in case any RIAA fanatics are reading), but I've never thought of downloading DVD's (unless it's porn! I mean... not really! just in case my wife is reading..) and I pretty much come to the conclusion that the legal consumers will continue to purchase their dvds at their local retail store, and limit their use to the family dvd player- Considering most consumers wouldn't deal with playing a dvd on a small pc monitor.

Unlike music, which can be played over limitless mediums, dvd players are pretty well limited to dvd support game consoles, dvd players, or the pc- where the copy protection will come into play.

Don't get me wrong, I think copy protection in general is just a headache, I just don't have as much against the MPAA as the RIAA.
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Simon, 30 May 2006 @ 5:50pm

Fools
I have on my to-do list the task of ripping one of my daughters much watched Disney DVD's to DVD-R. The legitimate version is so encumbered with promotional trailers and legal warnings that it takes an age to actually get to the movie we actually paid for. One it's ripped to MPEG-4, it'll simply be a case of inserting the disc and selecting the file.
Sadly, it would have been much easier to simply download the movie in the first place. Yet another example of the entertainment industry devaluing their own products.
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Rikko, 30 May 2006 @ 6:01pm

The new workaround
Home theater PC + Bittorrent = no more discs needed.

Now, entertainment industry, can you tell me why I should want to buy what you have to offer?
Besides, of course, the fact that I don't have an HTPC. :(
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Yoop, 30 May 2006 @ 6:41pm

Re:
The Pope has hit on an issue that could steer this country to better things. Sorry I have nothing to add but the message of how refreshing it was to read your post.
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Andyware, 30 May 2006 @ 6:52pm

The entertainment industry is stupid, they can't protect it, there is no way, simple as that.
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I, for one, 30 May 2006 @ 7:12pm

Re: discs not so obsolete to business
The DVD format being obsolete wasn't central to the article at all, it was merely a side snipe. Your comment rings true, hence the fact that that they are not obsolete but rather a central pillar of the industry revenue stream makes crippling them even *more* suicidally stupid, does it not?

I get the feeling the industry leaders are a bit like these 419 scam victims. They've been sold a lemon (in the guise of copy protection) by cowboy wannabe computer scientists and pseudo programmers who are laughing all the way to the bank every time they get Sony or Warner to buy the latest straw man system that will be hacked down within a week.

Rather than turn about 180 and admit defeat these guys would rather see their entire industry flushed down the pan and save face than admit they've been had.

Nobody will ever develp a copy protection system that works. It is just not possible, axiomatically.
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Rancho Media, 30 May 2006 @ 9:36pm

Re: Fools
I agree completely. I buy DVDs. They are affordable ($20 or less) and I can afford to pay. I don't need higher resolution, so I'm not real interested in the new HD DVD showdown.

I do get real irritated when DVDs come loaded with previews of other DVDs (Ads) which cannot be skipped. I'm also inclined to rip the DVDs, and reauthor them (without the ads) in MPEG4. It really irritates me to pay for content, and then end up forced to watch ads. The DVD publishers are their own worst enemy. It's now actually easier to download illegal content (ad free) then to buy legal DVDs with unavoidable advertisements.
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bubba proton, 30 May 2006 @ 9:45pm

xbmc
if you have ever seen an xbox media center working, you will have seen the future of home entertainment. and it certainly doesnt involve actual dvds, at least not while fast internet and bittorrent still exist...
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CAPT MORGAN, 30 May 2006 @ 10:17pm

Ahoy MATTES ITS pirater CAPT"N Morgan the world known pirate i steal from all across the seven seas and dont care those scallywags at hollywood are rich enough for me so I say whats a couple dollars to them when they buy 10000000 dollar mannsions! Igh!

Seriously though were not all criminals and there will be piracy where ever you go and no matter what you do to try and stop it. In my opnion hollywood needs to just shut up about pirates when ever i see those stupid comercials i want to do it even more becuase just before i saw that i saw a tabloid that said "Tom Cruz buys 120 million dollar mansion!"
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Photon Receptor, 31 May 2006 @ 12:20am

Analog Capture
If the displayed signal can be captured digitally
or Analog at good quality it can just be put
out for download on a myriad of p2p networks,
and they are just becoming more intricate.

Indirect transfers like mute and encryption will
make it exceedingly hard to catch the actual
people sending the file.

As all files will be piece meal routed thru other
nodes in truly statistically random algorithm.

people using Wifi hotpsots for their downloading
will likewise be somewhat harder to catch if they
have visual security of ppl trying to triangulate them
with directional atennnas.

Friend based VPN's like hamachi.cc will make encrypted
internets that exist within the internet that will be
private, encrypted, and can run most of the serverless
p2p apps with an added layer of anonymity.

The only thing they will be able to tell at the ISP
level is that your uploading a lot, and could call that
probable cause for investigation and then assign
tempest gear to your physical location for snooping.

The most secure uncopyable media can still be
captured even digitally as it hits the HD display
cable as a raw signal and then converted .

That will cost more than they can afford.

So it is more or less an issue of attrition.

If you can see it with your photo receptors of
cones and rods, it can be re-recorded and then
re-transmitted ad infinitium.

Ex-MislTech
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Az, 31 May 2006 @ 1:11am

Simply;
hackers are faster than manufacturers; cracks even come out before protection occasionally. It’s a futile endeavour, it would be smarter to just figure out a new way to cut down on piracy by a new low cost / high return medium.

And most un-piratable mediums are unpopular because of that fact, nerds, geeks and tech-heads create the early market - many if not most nerds, geeks and tech-heads are driven by pirating because of little respect for copyright laws and a belief in freedom of information, and sometimes just to piss off the MPAA/RIAA. Yarrr.
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Allen, 31 May 2006 @ 1:30am

DVD Article
Don't tell Sony that Blu-Ray is alreay obsolete.
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Rich, 31 May 2006 @ 1:51am

Piracy
Warez is bad. Apart from when you want the latest films for free instantly and without moving from your seat.
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John Allen, 31 May 2006 @ 2:03am

Re: Do I hear crickets?
right on Tim!
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Chris Longley, 31 May 2006 @ 4:44am

Re: Do I hear crickets?
Agreed
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ctyankee, 31 May 2006 @ 5:00am

"Hmm...seems stories like this are also becoming less valuable. Yet another catchy headline with little fresh content inside."

Yep. Sort of getting to be a theme song,

nah, nah, nah consumer companies don't understand consumers

nah, nah, nah, rather than trusting their customers ...

nah, nah, nah, going down a path that never has delivered value

nah, nah, nah, when will they ever learn

All true,

However, when will get off this thing and move to some fresh ideas?

People will not surf here if they don't see value so if you want insiders you better deliver value.
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Stating the obvious, 31 May 2006 @ 5:07am

Re: discs not so obsolete to business
The only reason DVD sales are so high is because they are the only option out there (now that video is dead).

If the distributor sold downloads of the movies (with appropriate price reductions) I'm willing to bet they'd steal a significant chunk of that market.

The OP is right. I don't want any more boxes and bits of plastic cluttering up my house.

I want to browse a list of movies on my computer, pick whatever I'd like to see and either stream it or download it. I'm not bothered which option they'd like to go for as I generally watch a movie once.
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Zeroth404, 31 May 2006 @ 5:36am

Techdirt always says it the way it should be anyhow, I don't know why I other posting.

"The entertainment industry is so obsessed with this false belief that all content needs copy protection that they've forgotten that their customers aren't all criminals and that giving them a product they want, rather than one that restricts them unnecessarily, is probably a good idea."
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Jeff, 31 May 2006 @ 5:54am

Hollywood focuses on the wrong group
They spend all their time focusing on the 1% who pirate instead of the 99% who buy legitimately. Attention Hollywood: those 1% aren't going to buy anyway. Don't worry about them. Make it a better experience for the other 99%. Sell us downloadable movies that can be burned to DVD or played on our computers. Give us a choice. These television shows you are streaming and the shows we can buy on iTunes are useless to those of us who want to watch on our televisions rather than our computers.
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luis rays, 31 May 2006 @ 5:59am

Re:
YES!!!! I agree very much so, the business' are being kind of ridiculous with all of the copyright "protections". From what I understand inviting friends over to see a movie w/out charging them for some copyright is illegal. Once again I agree, the entire industry needs to be completely rebuilt, not fixed.
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compmodder, 31 May 2006 @ 6:25am

speaking of experience
years ago when i bought my first dvd player the main selling point was that you wouldnt have to watch any previews or rewind. now i cant even fast forward through the prievews. the force you to watch the damn things and take it. im sorry but at least back in the day my vcr had the option to skip certain crappy content if i wanted it to.
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Techie, 31 May 2006 @ 6:42am

Wasn't VHS supposed to be obsolete at one time too????

Now if only i can figure out how to rip MP3's to my 8 track?
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ET, 31 May 2006 @ 6:56am

BS
[qoute]
They're battling over how to make these increasingly obsolete discs even less valuable. There is no consumer benefit at all
[end quote]

So in other words, you feel that if a DVD cannot be copied it is worth less??? That's a load off bullshit, and you know it. I'm sorry to offend all you copying and pirating junkies, but that statement makes as much sense as stating that anti-theft devices in retail stores are stupid and should not be implemented.
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Clueful, 31 May 2006 @ 7:02am

Re: Fools
Would you really pay more for a DVD without the ads? Ad revenue offsets price.

The reason they're there is because the producers know most consumers don't care, and will buy the disc anyway. That's capitalism.
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Clueful, 31 May 2006 @ 7:06am

Re: Re: discs not so obsolete to business
This is a complete myth. So long as we have strong encryption, strong DRM is possible.

It's just that the whole pipeline to the output devices has to be in on the game.

There are unhackable hardware designs. NSA has a chip that self-destructs upon opening.
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jon (profile), 31 May 2006 @ 7:20am

DRM is useless
As long as it can be played digitally, it can be copied digitally. With CDs, the most primitive method still works: plug up your CD player's headphone jacks into the audio-in on your sound cart, and record the incoming audio stream. The same also applies to video: if it can be played on the computer screen, there's probably some software that can capture the video stream. The most primitive method is always going to be foolproof. And someone will come up with a less primitive method, too, to actually copy the while thing as is, DVD menus as all. It's only a matter of time. And depending on the actual BD hardware to do the DRM is silly, too. As long as there's a player that doesn't including the invasive DRM crap, that's the preferable one to buy. The is the only thing I don't like about Blu-Ray. I hope it isn't an issue when people actually start buying them
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Me, 31 May 2006 @ 7:21am

Want some cheese?
Do you want some cheese to go with all the whine??????

Good grief people... what is up with all the whining about ads and previews? I don't see you asking the entertainment industry to not play ads and previews in the movie theatres... I don't see you whine about all the commercials on TV while you watch your favorite shows... (generally 1 hour of TV show consists of about 25 minutes of commercials and previews).

I agree with Clueful... the ads and previews is what keeps DVD's affordable. You want them gone? Be prepared to pay twice as much for them as what you are paying for them now.

And please, find something else to whine about... the whole discussion about the copy protections in the entertainment industry is getting old really fast...
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Jim, 31 May 2006 @ 7:40am

Re:
Way to go Techie, I completely agree.
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I, for one, 31 May 2006 @ 7:56am

Re: Want some cheese?
"I don't see you asking the entertainment industry to not play ads and previews in the movie theatres..."

Then open your eyes. The most prevalent complaint apart from the lack of quality is the 20min tirade of boring, patronising, insults to their intelligence and self esteem that the average person is forced to sit through when visiting a movie theatre.

"I don't see you whine about all the commercials on TV while you watch your favorite shows."

Again, do you even own a television or speak to ordinary people outside your door? Television advertising has reached such a nadir of taste that even the most braindead couch potatos are switching off in their millions.

"I agree with Clueful... the ads and previews is what keeps DVD's affordable. You want them gone? "

Exactly, you agree with an argument which has no economic basis whatsoever. I bet you love advertisements and feel enriched by the wonderful world of products out there you never even knew you needed. There is a word for this which I believe is "gullible".

"You want them gone? Be prepared to pay twice as much for them as what you are paying for them now."

Now you're actually talking some sense. People pay a premium for quality. The higher the quality of the product the more they are prepared to pay. Unfortunately (see point 1) if the current industry had to survive on the merit of its products it would be dead within a week.

You're still thinking the dog wags the tail. It's the other way round. Low quality pap from the Hollywood saussage factory is the vehicle that keeps the advertising business alive.

"And please, find something else to whine about... the whole discussion about the copy protections in the entertainment industry is getting old really fast..."

Again you're wrong. The debate is highly relevant, topical and imo hasn't even begun in earnest. Your pejorative use of the term "Whine" only leads people to assume you work in advertising, and given that you have so spectacularly failed to get your argument across might I suggest another career.
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Alucardryft, 31 May 2006 @ 8:32am

Re: DVD Article
Sony's little tiff about copyprotection for the PS3 gaming system ahs already caused them to loose massive amounts of faithful customers. Sony last I heard is still planing on relesing a copy write protection format that locks thae game to your console ID. That right there ruins the option of game rentals and the resale of used games. I am personally a game renter. I would prefer to test the game for 5 days before I spend $50 (soon to be $60+) on a game. If they follow through with that then there only revenue is going to be on T.V. sets and computer monitors.
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Kilroy, 31 May 2006 @ 9:15am

Why hell would you want to Download a DVD??
Cmon, who the hell wants to wait 2-3 hours to download a DVD over the internet then watch it on a computer screen, or, worse yet, still have to burn it to a DVD so you can watch it on your TV?

Just because there are other more "advanced" ways to do something doesn't meant that they are in any way shape or form better ways.
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Dave, 31 May 2006 @ 9:31am

Re: Want some cheese?
It is not the ads or previews I mind. Heck, I like previews. It is the obnoxious anti-piracy message that I am immediately greeted with after putting in my new $20 purchase.
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A Funny Guy / The Poison Pen, 31 May 2006 @ 9:38am

Re: Do I hear crickets?
Now this is funny. This is FRESH CONTENT.

I totally agree with you Tim
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A Funny Guy / The Poison Pen, 31 May 2006 @ 9:48am

Re: BS
Can't believe that you don't want the right to backup your legally bought purchase. Of course something that cannot be duplicated is less valuable when it has a limited shelf life.

We were told that dvd's would last forever, we have since found out this is not true. Any number of damage can happen to a dvd to make it unplayable.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2006 @ 10:34am

Obligatory
I, for one, welcome our new increasingly obsolete platic disc overlords.
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anonymous coward, 31 May 2006 @ 10:47am

they still make DVDs? you get those delivered by pony express to your log cabin in the Western Territories?

who cares?
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Hautedawg, 31 May 2006 @ 10:52am

Hacking
Yes indeed folks, you put it out there, and those who have time on their hands will crack the code. It won't take days or hours, but minutes.

GIDDIDY GIDDIDY GIDDIDY
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the_Culprit, 31 May 2006 @ 12:44pm

Re: Why hell would you want to Download a DVD??
"Just because there are other more "advanced" ways to do something doesn't meant that they are in any way shape or form better ways." Quote by Kilroy on May 31st, 2006 @ 9:15am

Just because there are established ways to do something doesn't mean that thay are in any way, shape or form better ways.

Everything I watch is displayed on my computer monitor (its not very small either). I do not have any kind of TV in my home. I receive all of my content via the interweb (usually bit-torrent). I still buy DVDs made by artists I respect. But this is usually after I have already received this same content via the internet (usually weeks in advance of release). It still baffles me that I can have "the ultimate media center experience" with out any DRM roadblocks, all while the content industry is still trying to figure out what the hell is happening. Reminds me of "Tarzan Economics." Sometimes you have to let go of a revenue stream before you can grab onto the next one.
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ralph, 31 May 2006 @ 12:55pm

Re: Why hell would you want to Download a DVD??
uh.. it takes more like 30 minutes to dl a DVD and no more effort than transferring it to my video player's HD. It's kind of like a VCR, but with a HD and USB port like an (ipod, but it output's to a TV in highdef or unleaded..)
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ralph, 31 May 2006 @ 12:55pm

Re: Why hell would you want to Download a DVD??
uh.. it takes more like 30 minutes to dl a DVD and no more effort than transferring it to my video player's HD. It's kind of like a VCR, but with a HD and USB port like an (ipod, but it output's to a TV in highdef or unleaded..)
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ralph, 31 May 2006 @ 12:56pm

Re: Why hell would you want to Download a DVD??
uh.. it takes more like 30 minutes to dl a DVD and no more effort than transferring it to my video player's HD. It's kind of like a VCR, but with a HD and USB port like an (ipod, but it output's to a TV in highdef or unleaded..)
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Ski, 31 May 2006 @ 3:02pm

Re: Why hell would you want to Download a DVD??
I wouldnt download a dvd. I'd download xvid/divx in 5-10 mins and stream it to my Kiss dvd player in the lounge room.

Thats quicker and easier than walking to my nearest dvd shop.
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