States Can't Wait For Feds; Rushing To Put Online Poker Players In Jail

from the thanks-for-playing dept

Thu, Jun 8th 2006 3:19am — Mike Masnick

While Congress is still sorting out a new federal law that will make it clear that playing online poker is a crime, it appears the state of Washington couldn't wait that long. Digg points out that if you're an online poker player in the state of Washington, you're now a felon (congrats!). Of course, like the federal attempts, the state government claims this isn't really a change, but simply a clarification. Some politicians have claimed from the beginning that playing poker online is illegal based on current laws -- but the laws are worded in such a way as to be quite confusing.

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72 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 3:51am

They are bluffing... I raise with $120...
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- Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:10am
  
  Re:
  I see your 120 and raise you 1yr probation and 1 Pack of smokes....
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:37am
    
    Re: Re:
    Too rich for my blood
    
    ...and @$$ hole
    
    Just kidding, I'll still play on line, until they pry my laptop from my cold dead fingers
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- E Fearnley, 22 Jul 2006 @ 6:38am
  
  Re:
  Tis a sad day indeed. As soon as the US can figure out how to get in on the action I suspect I'll be able to play again. Why does the United States government feel so entitled to take a part of my money that I am choosing to send to another country? They already take one-third of my paycheck. Another thing that I dont understand- all of the money that flows through our casinos has already been taxed. Why is it taxed again if you happen to win a jackpot? Woke up this Saturday morning wanting to play a nice little poker tournament at Poker Champs. Well, my accounts been closed as I live in the US. Anybody here know of any sites still allowing US players?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:09am

haha! I'm glad it is still legal for me to play poker here, but why play online when I can do it at the casino down the road? Or at a mates place? Oh, and I call and raise $120 again.
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- A. Bosch, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:11am
  
  Re: Sorry...
  That's a string bet.
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- jake, 24 Jul 2007 @ 12:13pm
  
  Re:
  ha ha ha becaues its ileagle
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DCX2, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:15am

Shouldn't free market rules work for online poker too?

Why must there be government regulation (i.e. criminalization)?
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- KJHawk, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:33am
  
  Re: Government Intervention...
  Hey... Our representatives are just doing what the Constitution tells them to... "Serve and Protect"... Unfortunately, they don't seem to understand that the "Serve" part meant that they should serve the people and not the special interest groups and other extremists, and that the "Protect" part is supposed to be "...from foriegn aggressors"... and NOT from ourselves.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Carl, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:06am
  
  Re: Competition
  These laws are for the same reason as the theft/stealing laws.
  
  People - THE GOVERNMENT HATES COMPETITION.
  
  BY the way, stop the betting, I have four Aces from the bottom of the deck.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- dennis parrott, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:08am
  
  Re: why must there be "gubbmint" regulation?
  our faboo federal government criminalizes behavior because it has no effective way to extort money from the behavior. the feds can't tax the beejeepers out of online gambling so they make it a crime. once you are a "felon", you lose many rights and you're an easier mark to be controlled in Prison Camp America.
  
  mostly its about the money.
  
  mostly its because we the people have forgotten where our rights truly derive from and have allowed a bunch of politicians to take them away in piecemeal fashion.
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- satan, 9 Jun 2006 @ 3:03pm
  
  Re:
  What is it about Poker they don't like?
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fsckr, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:17am

Can't wait until...
Uncle Sam reveals his poker, goes all in, makes you fold

;)

But seriously, the federal/state government would be better off figuring out a way to tax the online playhouses rather than limiting the freedoms of their citizens. In the end, I see this becoming one of those unenforcable rules that we are all aware of but that no one cares to heed.
~
fsckr
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- Dosquatch, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:57am
  
  Re: Can't wait until...
  But seriously, the federal/state government would be better off figuring out a way to tax the online playhouses rather than [snip]
  They already do. Gambling winnings are taxable as income, and at very high rates to boot.
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- Tim Arview, 8 Jun 2006 @ 10:43am
  
  Re: Can't wait until...
  "But seriously, the federal/state government would be better off figuring out a way to tax the online playhouses rather than limiting the freedoms of their citizens."
  
  Yes...that...or actually bust the online playhouses rather than the customers.
  
  Also, in reference to a comment above regarding the state of Washington, one has to wonder... What about online casinoes whose servers are in Washington? What if it's legal in my state, but not in the state where my favorite casino is housed? Which state has jurisdiction?
  
  Usually I'm all for giving states more power, but the Internet makes that rather difficult to enforce.
  
  "I see this becoming one of those unenforcable rules that we are all aware of but that no one cares to heed."
  
  Care to rip a tag off a mattress? ;-)
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Sean, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:42am

Felony?
A felony for playing online poker seems very steep. Aren't felonies supposed to be reserved for serious crimes? Especially since having a felony record could potentially mess up your life?
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- Chris G, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:37am
  
  Re: Felony?
  There are many many white collar felony crimes. It is unfortunate that a hacker will get a larger sentence than a child rapist, but what can we do about it?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - fat_hamster, 8 Jun 2006 @ 10:47am
    
    Re: Re: Felony?
    It takes a hacker to play poker online? Since no one has yet been charged with a crime of playing poker how in the hell can he
    be given a sentence more punitive then a child rapist? And what does any of this have to to with white collar crime? Next you will be writing that it takes a nuclear physicist to download tunes
    and his sentence will be worse then that of a serial murderer.
    At least you're not given to hyperbole.
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  - noname, 28 Mar 2007 @ 11:32am
    
    Re: Re: Felony?
    VOTE!! Get the aholes out that voted this law in
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Diego, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:50am

Online Felony Poker Players
What’s the big deal, people want to throw away perfectly good money in the comfort of their own homes and we are leaving it up to the bureaucracy to make it a crime and then go arresting some poor guy after loosing his mortgage payment to an online casino. So we have begun to plummet to new lows as a society. We might consider taking a clue from the European Community and trim off all the extraneous laws to focus more on keeping our country safe from domestic terrorism, and the illegal alien influx for lack of any real border security.
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MoFunk05, 8 Jun 2006 @ 4:59am

Gut Shot
Living proof, we have way to many government employees on the payroll!

Check Raise ALL IN Uncle Sam, bring your weak crap to the 10 cent table!

MoFunk05
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Wolfger, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:32am

Online == Felony, Offline == Legal: WTF?
Gambling is gambling. How can they justify legal gambling in a casino, and a 5 year prison term for gambling on the internet? It's total BS.

Here in Detroit, a 5 year old child watched his mother die because 911 operators refused to send help. They are facing "up to 1 year" on a misdemeanor for what is essentially negligent homicide, but Joe Blow in Seattle goes to the big house now for playing online blackjack? This country is so far out of whack, it's pathetic.
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JustMe, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:32am

The real felons out there are the people who steal from all of us everyday at the gas pumps. But that is Ok with the gov't as this increases their sales tax on each gallon while the gov't ignores the impact this has on most all of us.

So why not invite the gov't to a friendly game of poker? We can show them what it feels like to have their money taken from them and get little to nothing in return.
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- Wizard Prang, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:18am
  
  Re:
  >> The real felons out there are the people who steal from all of us everyday at the gas pumps.
  
  Lets not forget that the Federal Government get 18.4c of every gallon, win, lose or draw. The Stat takes another 10-22c
  
  If they are serious about bringing down gas prices, why don't they just abolish those?
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  - Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:42am
    
    Re: Re:
    Yeah, they should probably lower it, but it they suddenly dropped it and gas was 30-40c cheaper, then people would start driving all over the place cause its it "cheap"
    
    Then from supply and demand principles gas would go back up to somewhere near it current price. THEN, how could we pay for all the welfare and other gov't programs that reward sitting on your ass or not being productive members of society?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Garfiode, 9 Jun 2006 @ 12:45am
    
    Re: Re:
    because if they abolish the gas taxes then people will drive more then they do now. Then the price will go up to even more then it is now because then there will be an actual shortage of gas unlike now.
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    - Donald, 9 Jun 2006 @ 2:35am
      
      Re: Re: Re: garfiode
      Why would there be a shortage of gas because if they abolish the gas taxes? So what if people drive more then they do currently if they abolish the gas tax. The prices should go down because of the competition. They'll just have to make more gas or allow citizens in different parts of the country to run on the same type of gas, which we don't. LA people use some type of high octane gas because of smog compared to some place in Utah. So it makes the cost of gas go up, to make the LA gas a higher cleaner form of gasoline. If people didn't have to pay for the gas tax and drove more, I'm sure the government would get more out of your income on April 15 to make every thing even and then punish use by making us use go carts with 5 gallon gas tanks to "SAVE" on gas. LOL The gas tax is not to SAVE our gasoline, it's for PORK BARREL PROJUECTS IN IRAQ. lol
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Zeroth404, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:39am

What if I'm playing for virtual potato chips? :-)
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- gotanybob, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:49am
  
  Re:
  Plain or Ruffled??
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- windpunk, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:51am
  
  Re:
  I guess you would go to virtual Jail. Trapped in virtual reality... dont drop the virtual soap! your virtual jail mate might find you interesting... virtually.. of course.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - pony50692, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:07am
    
    Re: Re:
    so the government will hire some dude to send you cyber sex emails...awesome...not really
    with how this country's going it's almost cheaper and more worth your time to just kill someone...i mean you get more jail time and bigger fines for hacking computers or now playing poker online
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fab, 8 Jun 2006 @ 5:53am

Need to remember. The only people they are protecting is business. Everything they do is to protect some business from another. It looks like the big casino's have put up enough money to make the lawmakers happy.

When white collar criminals receive bigger sentences than actually violent criminals, you can see who they want to protect. It’s sad.
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Cindy Oshea, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:04am

playing poker online
This whole issue makes me sick. Why pick on the poker players. I personally do not play poker, but I feel that it should be left up to the individual as to how they spend their hard earned money. There are more important issues in the world today without crowding the jails and creating more burden on the tax payers just because someone chooses to play poker online. Worry about our gas prices, the war in Iraq, starving people, the health care system - it needs a major overhaul. Political bull crap is what this whole gambling issue is.
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Herky, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:05am

Don't they have better things to do
Politicians are ALL worthless. All of them. Maybe tackling poverty, health care and immigration would be a better thing to focus on with their inflated salaries.
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John (profile), 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:10am

But it's okay to play the lottery
Remember that the US governments (federal, state, and local) get NO money from online gambling.

But, they get plenty of money when you play the lottery at the local convenience store. The government also gets their share from state casinos... unless the casinos have deals to be tax-emept.

So, please, if you must gamble, buy a lottery ticket.
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DaWool, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:12am

Online Gambling is WRONG, but Lottery is OK?
Government, esp. State Govt, is a conglomerate of hippocrites. It's illegal for you to gamble online (states lose profit big time... profits go to some offshore gaming company). However, it is LEGAL for the states to run their own gambling ring in the form of a "LOTTERY". And the rake is like 50%! (I made that up, I don't know how much they shave off, but I'm sure it's a lot) Not even Vegas can get away with those kind of favorable odds. Ridiculous. I'm "all in" with my remaining $54 (after filling up my car with $3 gas, after paying city taxes, state taxes, federal taxes, sales taxes, liquor taxes, cigarette taxes, and parking tickets).
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13 year old, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:12am

uhhh...
i told a girl i was a good boy and she refused to date me. then i got busted for playing online poker and became a felon on the lam... now the women love me ...
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13 year old, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:12am

uhhh...
i told a girl i was a good boy and she refused to date me. then i got busted for playing online poker and became a felon on the lam... now the women love me ...
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Jimbinbobano, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:17am

hahahhah
Thats a pretty sad deal, damn washington getting pissed caus peeps are playing some poker online insted of giving the money back to the state, and its all because they want the money the government are some greedy bastards and i see your 120 and raise you 120.
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ET, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:24am

Politicians are like...
Politicians are like diapers...
They both need to be replaced often, because they are both full of the same stuff.
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Anonymous, 8 Jun 2006 @ 6:28am

Making poker illegal
Just another way to have the gov't take away our freedom
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Patrick Mullen, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:14am

Remember one thing when it comes to govt. regulation. We are all playing with house money, and the house always wins.
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beez, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:24am

If they took away those taxes, our road systems would waste away to nothing.

This is another one of those situations like pirating music, they will bust a handful of people and send a chill through everyone's spine.

This won't be an issue in a month or so
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:36am

You forget they need the tax base to build road and bridges to nowhere.
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- Deadstroke, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:10am
  
  Re:
  Keep this in mind... The fuel tax is based on percentages, it is not fixed amounts. When the price of fuel increases, the amount of tax also increases. When the price of fuel increases, the cost to repair the roads and highways also increases, which in turn should be covered by the higher revenues that the increased taxes should cover. It is really a visicious circle. What really bites my hind quarters is that you hear all of these projects that are being canceled or postponed because the cost of materials is too high! UUUUUUMMMMMM - Where the heck is all of our tax money going?!?!
  
  The last time I checked, it is still illeagal in this country to tax without representation. Do you feel as if you are being represented for your tax dollars?
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are you really that dumb......., 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:53am

if they allow gambling on line than we should be able to mail order liqour and marijauna
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- yes you really are that dumb, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:23am
  
  Re:
  > if they allow gambling on line than we should be able to mail order liqour and marijauna
  
  No, but you can buy liquor and marijuana from state lottery stores. As long as Uncle Sam gets a large cut of the profits, it's legal. If not, you're a lowlife scumbag criminal.
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CHGO, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:57am

anyhting is illegal when the goverment can't make revenue from it, which it has a hard time doing with Online Gambling....not that I actually think the Republicans or Democrats have done anything worthwhile to deserve more revenue.
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Junyo, 8 Jun 2006 @ 7:59am

This isn't about politicians caving to "Big Business"; online gaming IS "Big Business". From nonexistent in 1995 to around $6 Billion annually now, and projected to be at $16B by decade's end. And it's a ridiculously high profit business compared to traditional gaming businesses; no expensive real estate, comp'd drinks, and minimal employees.

The problem for online gaming is they're in the middle of the perfect storm, with no natural patrons; moralists from the right and the nannystate left hate gambling in general because they know what's good for you better than you know yourself. Typically they're opposed by politians with dollar signs in their eyes, but the greedy kind of politician realizes how difficult it is to perform a shakedown via taxes on an offshore casino with out of state customers, so they're not sticking they're neck out so that Little Johnnie can run up his Mom's credit card and drive her to a life of prostitution (or whatever cautionary true life tale of danger they put on the 10 o'clock news tonight...) And of course, the politians getting greased by the brick and mortar casinos are going to help their paymasters by hamstringing the competition.

On a slightly different topic, Diego wrote "We might consider taking a clue from the European Community and trim off all the extraneous laws..." Excuse me? The proposed EC Constitution is 15 times longer than the US Constitution, and the EC has drafted regulations on subjects as minute and esoteric as the fluid capacity of condoms, on top of the laws of individual member states. Not exactly a model for cutting down on regulations. Pray God we don't take a clue from Europe... except for on female beach attire.
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Dishevel, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:06am

Roads
They dont use the gas taxes to build and repair roads. That is what they were supposed to do with it. They steal it and put it in the general fund then make new taxes to fix our screwed up road system.
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Frank, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:11am

All I can think is...
Just how in God's name do they plan to enforce this ridiculous law? Are we gonna do this China-style, and hire people to watch these sites? Whatever the effort, it looks like a tremendous waste of taxpayer dollars in my opinion, especially when you consider that the most likely spur for these laws is that the government isn't getting it's take from the online casinos. Isn't turning normal people into criminals a play from the RIAA/MPAA handbook?
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- eb, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:22am
  
  Re: All I can think is...
  Remember that data the Justice Department wants the ISPs to retain? Going to be easy to track down the poker players that way.
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Alex, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:28am

Re-imbursement
I want in on this action.. I go all in for my felony charges too. Rather rediculous...

Hey I am for the illegal suit...I think if it is against the law then, that each poker sites should return all lost bets/wages to their original owners and call it a wash.
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Monarch, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:30am

So, the American Taliban is live and well in our Government. And.., especially so in Washington State.
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Carminhato, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:32am

So naive
Our government is still so naive... Like if making something illegal would stop people (specially the addicted ones) from doing what they are use to... Drugs are illegal, gambling is illegal in most states... do people stop doing it? Not in this world... making something illegal only opens a door to the underworld to explore... don't make me remind you of the prohibition of alcohol (1920-33) that only made the mafia richer and the streets more violent... I bet that if the government bans online poker there will be an illegal poker game a block from where you live.... Wouldn’t it be better for the government to tax legalize in the US such business and TAX it? Use the tax money to prevent and treat addicted gamblers… there are some things we cannot fight in this world… an in my opinion if you cannot beat it join it.
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anonymous coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:33am

the goverment is NOT behind this. the CASINOS are behind this. it's just that the casinos are smooth enough to keep their lobbying efforts behind closed doors, as opposed to the ham-handed RIAA/MPAA which runs around suing everyone they can find creating all kinds of bad press for itself.

if you want to do something about this legislation, boycott Vegas.

it's NOT a felony to gamble, it IS a felony to gamble anywhere other than a U.S. owned corporate casino.
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- General Observer, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:31am
  
  Re: anonymous coward
  um, no. The casinos are not behind this. If not for online poker, Vegas wouldn't be making anything from poker. You think 6000 people would play in the WSOP ME if they weren't playing online 5 nights a week?
  
  Online poker stokes the fire, and the casinos know it. Online poker motivates people to go to Vegas to spend money, it doesn't discourage them.
  
  Now, boycotting Vegas might be the right thing to do afterall. If we refuse to go to Vegas, then the casinos will lobby for legaization of online poker, but they are not lobbying for criminalization of it now. Gauranteed.
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  - anonymous coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 11:17am
    
    Re: Re: anonymous coward
    Wrong! The casinos ARE behind this. Television and movies have turned no limit into a cool new pastime. Crappy offshore gambling sites sending spam email couldn't have built it into the industry it has become.
    
    And now that it is the hot table game, the casinos are going to work overtime to shut down your access to any venue that they can't control.
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wolff000, 8 Jun 2006 @ 8:44am

The Real Reason Why
The reason we have so many ridiculous laws like this one is because you can't control law abiding citizens. If everyone was honest and did the right thing the government would have next to no power over anything. If you create laws that make the common man a criminal you now have alot of control. This is just another perfect example of that fact.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:38am

Washington State has card rooms and casinos.

Since they've never come up with a way to tax online transactions like this, it's just a way to protect the existing businesses and their revenue streams.
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Bill, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:40am

doubling up
Basically they're killing 2 birds with one stone. You will now have to burn your hard earned gas driving to some heavily taxed casino.
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Silver, 8 Jun 2006 @ 9:59am

Thuggish and Mobbish
The government is like the mob they don't want any action unless they get a cut. Since they can't break peoples legs they just hand out felonys. And earlier I read someone asking aren't felony's reserved for serious crimes and I'd have to say no, not anymore almost everything is either a petty misdemeanor (traffic ticket) or a felony nowdays they hand them out like candy on halloween.
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Yakov, 8 Jun 2006 @ 10:01am

Proxy and encrypt
I can see it now, all the online pocker sites will be proxied, use high grade incyiption and the pocket sniffer on earth will know what you are doing. Then all you gotta do is fund you account like you normally would -- through a foreign CC, and you're set. I have better ways to spend my money, but please tell me -- off all the starbucks and MS employees over there -- you think anyone will ever be dumb enough to get caught with this stupid law. This is politics as usual, with no real means and or ideas of enforcing these laws. Waste of time and tax payer money. Can we get these politicians a leasson on how the internet works, because it would seem they're all functioning like it's 1992.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 10:50am

"Just how in God's name do they plan to enforce this ridiculous law?"

- Require US ISP's to block access to to online gambling sites.
- Make collection of ILLEGAL gambling debts unenforceble by law (US casinos etc. are legal)
- Prohibit US banks from processing the transactions.

"But they can't do that..."

Oh yeah? Don't bet on it?

Getting public support for gambling is tough even when you show how the public will benefit.

Getting public support to ban online gambling is pretty easy. Just explain how the casinos and sites are off-shore and gambling losses mean money exits the US. Adding "possibly to fund terrorism" is optional...
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Donald Duck, 8 Jun 2006 @ 11:26am

I'm for open source total free net usage
Pretty soon I would imagine most state governments has or will have legal running Table Games, Black Jack and Poker. Government 'Card Sharks', they'll put the tax department in charge, they'll be prefect!

I guess there might be a move to make Lottery casino type games legal online. But first, they need to get rid of all the competition!

So the 'idea' in the future because you have a online gambling habit could become illegal. Puts a thought in the works of your imagine that your future cell mate Tyrone would make you his private little toothless girl friend in cell block F. Just because you gambled online, which leaves most of the gambling loot in the hands of government henchman state employe of the year Harry 'The Embezzler' Capone. Via legal lottery systems and possible future internet state lottery gaming sites.
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her43, 8 Jun 2006 @ 11:48am

Apes Gone Crazy
well if its good enough for my purple ape to play online poker then it should be good enough for the government
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 12:12pm

America...
land of the criminals ;)

you cant fart and cough these days without breaking laws..
this is what happens when the government is run BY big industries, FOR big industries..
the people get fucked
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 12:25pm

wtf
HOW THE FUCK IS IT A "CRIME" TO PLAY ONLINE POKER, DOESN'T THE GOVERMENT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jun 2006 @ 1:45pm

good thing i've already lined my pockets with tournament winnings!
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Elysian Reaper, 8 Jun 2006 @ 3:27pm

Payback
In Washington state the Indian tribes (Native Americans to PC folk) dumped a bunch of campaign cash on the Dem party to help them keep power and increase their grip on the legislature. Now low and behold the ruling party decides to make online gambling the equivelent of possesing child porn. Did I mention that the tribes make most of their money off their casinos? What could this be?
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Derek, 27 Jul 2006 @ 7:19am

Poker sites blocked
I live in California and as of yesterday my ISP (tcsn.net) has blocked all poker sites. poker.com, partypoker.com, etc. I will have to find a new ISP, I can't live without online poker.

Its funny how they don't block illegal warez or hacking websites but they block poker.
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MRVAIN, 5 Mar 2007 @ 2:59pm

LoL.....ridiculous
I am an avid hold em player, and also a once proud defender of the United States...but come on, WTF. It's poker, you can gamble at any number of Casinos anywhere...play poker for money anywhere...but not online. I go out to sea to protect the rights of those jackasses that decided it was so wrong to play for money online because "We can't tax your winnings." I was once honored to defend a government who cared for it's people, this is just another reason to my many that makes me happy I am close to the end of my enlistment
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