What's With France's Google Insecurities?
from the let-it-go... dept
It really seems like the French government has a ton of insecurities around Google. Last year, they decided to do their own book scanning project out of a fear that Google's was somehow a threat to French culture. Then, there's the French version of a search engine, which many believe is really just a way to get money out of the government. The latest is that they've created their own version of Google Earth. It sort of makes you wonder why they feel the need to mimic every Google move -- all with government money. Why not just let private industry build what's needed if there's demand for it? The rationale for the French version of Google Earth makes almost no sense, saying that it's important for French people to know this info. That's true, but that doesn't explain what's wrong with the privately built offerings that are already out there.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Viva la France
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Re: Viva la France
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Re: Re: Viva la France
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French google earth
Another difference with googlearth is the source of the data. There it would be the aerial shoots taken, for a much higher resolution, if they do their jobs right, and with a refreshing of 20% of the surface every year.
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Re: French google earth
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It's the french!
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Re: It's the french!
OK, kidding, the real reason is that if it is of use to everybody, then it should be available to everybody, not just through a privat copr that will serve its own interests and not those of society and its individuals. economic / industrial / corporate imperialism is still something france fitghts against, based on the idea that a country is made for the people that live in it, not for the companies that make money in it.
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It's because...
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Re: It's because...
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Re: It's because...
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Re: It's because...
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Re: It's because...
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And this is different how?
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Re: And this is different how?
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Re: And this is different how?
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Re: Re: And this is different how?
The real reason for the USG to refuse Lenovo as a supplier was as a cheap shot. Oh, and use tax dollars to reduce the competitive pressure on some other corporations. Is that any different from what the French government is doing?
By the way, if you can read French, read the newspapers or talk to some French people. I think you'd find people there feel more scorn for their government than Americans do. Hell, given that the US has 6x the population of France, I would be there are more pro-French-government people in the USA (in absolute terms) than there are in France!
(But it's true that most French people think France is better than the USA....and really, should that be a surprise?)
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Don't knock the French (too much)
From what I can make out they're not the crazy socialist lefties they're painted as here and over the pond, just bureaucratic and into centralisation. Damn thing is, it works. Go to France and take a TGV train, they run on time to the second. They're also fierecly independent. Which is sort of a good thing because they don't like to rely on other countries and are actually rather more "secure" than "insecure". They were in the first three nuclear nations with bomb along with USA and us. They started their own space program with Arianne, now usurped into ESA. And you know, the irony is that we could learn a lot from the French as British and American people, when they don't like what their government is doing they kick off, bigtime, and get what they want because they're politically savvy and active. Their wines are the best in the world. French food is amazing. And their countryside is beautiful. But, wtf, I'm English, so I fart in your general direction garlic munching, cheese eating surrender monkeys;)
Seriously though Mr Henkel-Wallace of #5 has it, they are really being rather sensible implementing a backup plan, it's not as if they are mandating this and there's no choice.
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Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
The french are very clever, but their resentment towrd the US and British go back to when the pretended to help the US fight the brits. They really wanted to shame the brits because the brits had shamed them so many times. Then they were going to turn their guns on the US. Of course that never happened.
I just don't bother with them anymore unless I absolutely have to.
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Re: Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
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Re: Re: Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
And god am I sick and tired of hearing endless rants why french wines are the best in the world. For chrissakes people, there are excellent wines all over the world, tere is no need to restrict yourself based on your own narrow knowledge. I suggest you seek out a good mine store and attend some taskings.
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Re: Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
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Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
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Re: Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
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Wages and housing--
Also, just because a minimum wage is set forth does not mean you have to settle for it. Hence minimum. Throw some ambition in there, you may be suprised.
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Re: Don't knock the French (too much)
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French Resentment
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Re: French Resentment
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Re: French Resentment
now don't make me laugh too hard... BigMac instant gratification for obese idiots, if that is the superior culture, then Bush is a Saint.
Ha, I am amazed that the average American even knows where France is... somewhere sort of East of Berlin??
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why do the french hate monopolies?
It's remarkable that you don't already know this, but just as a refresher in key moments in unamerican history, you might want to try this Wikipedia page and move on from there.
Besides, I thought Americans were all about consumer choice and unfettered alternatives and let the free markets decide ...
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The revolting french
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Re: The revolting french
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A glaring omission
other women.
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Re: A glaring omission
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Ah! Yes! The French
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NIH
http://collaborativemarketing.blogspot.com/
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the website is the visible part of the iceberg.
The whole projects includes features like :
Extra detailled maps
Public information services :show where road work will take place, real time information on traffic jam, things like this. ( Infectious warnings, radioactivity warning zone ....) basically anything you can do with a map. and that is why it's state financed... because it's of public utility!
So for now, the sat map service is a, i agree, a copy of google earth and is state sponsored, so bouhh,
but when we'll have the whole stuff online, google earth will still have its eyes in order to cry because a corporate shouldn't be publishing these informations, it's the role of a state.
A french who has worked on that projet.
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Re: France's Google
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Like Google knows best?
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Re: Like Google knows best?
However, one has to admit that there is little that can be done at this point in time to really compete with a company such as Google.
In other words, MS has been trying to gain some of the market share for a while now and it is quite obvious that they have failed in achieving anything.
Now that is a company that has been in this business even before Google came on the scene, and let's not forget Yahoo's efforts as well.
The point I am trying to make here is very simple...and that is, whoever made the decision to spend French people's money to compete with Google is simply an idiot.
There are other ways to ensure that they get what they want out of google if try and make a deal with them....like the deal China made with Google, MSN, Yahoo...etc.
That would be a cheaper solution and they would be able to get best value for money from people who have done it already...and not rely on some French companies that have a lot to prove when it comes to producing software...as i don't personally know any that has produced something of value.
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Re: Like Google knows best?
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the problem with france....
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surrender? i think not
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Re: surrender? i think not
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France
Whether any of this "works" is of course subject of another debate.
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Joey> Sorry but I just can't agree with you. You can't say minimum wage is too high : it's about 1200€/month. Add taxes and all stuff like that, and it won't remain much... Now try to figure out that most young people gain 40% to 80% of this because they're on training courses or anything that "precarious" (let's not mention cases where they're aren't even paid at all), and you'll realize you're plainly wrong.
Same about "On any given weekend car burnings and rioting are regular events". Riots happening early this year doesn't mean it happens everyday...
Chris Miller> "She said it was because English was a crude and simplistic language that any uneducated and intellectually lazy third wourld person can understand."
It's awfully said, and you probably exaggerated it a bit, but in some ways she's right. I think she didn't mean to say "English-speaking people are dumb" but more or less "English is simple and so easy to learn". I speak Vietnamese, French, English and I'm learning German, and I can say that English was A LOT easier to learn : it has the simplest grammar, and you don't need to know many words to talk with people. That's it.
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Re:
That's the first time I've ever heard that from a person that knows more than 2 languages. Most people believe English is one of the most difficult to learn because it is a hybrid of slavik and romance languages. I "know" 4 languages and I would say that if English wasnt my first language I don't know how I would have mastered the grammatical rules. It is true that because of modern slang and the ubiquity of the language that a little knowledge of english goes a long way, it doesn't take away from the fact that the language itself has very irregular and inconsistent rules.
As per the french, my question to all of my fellow americans is what would you do if everything related to computers came from overseas? Microsoft, google, and all the other "icons" of the modern computer age were based overseas. Don't you think there would be some type of national movememt to make our own inhouse versions of those products? As much as we as Americans like to think of the internet as international, the rest of the world is probably pretty frustrated that too much control of it lies in the US. From ICANN to ANSI almost all of the major groups shaping the internet and computing are either based in the US or heavily influenced by us. If I were from another country, I would see it as an issues of national pride to at least TRY to make some home grown stuff.
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And unlike french, spanish, etc. English has on average about 5-10 times as large a vocabulary as almost any other language. english may fairly easy to learn, and use in basic situations, but it is fairly difficult to learn if you are seeking to be able to have mastery of it,.
And it is my belief that there are almost no languages with the sheer versatiliy of the english language. Just compare shakespeare with tim berners lee , and compare them wit Pres. Bush. You can alter it and create,a and write for almost anyubody..
PS, I am a Linguistics Minor at Univ.of Buffalo 2nd year
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just let them
competition is good for the consumer, even if it's like mixing the olympics with special olympics.
techdirt guy has a stick up his ass sometimes.
le sigh...
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GW Bush
Claim: President George W. Bush proclaimed, "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."
Status: False.
Origins: Yet another
French fried "George W. Bush is dumb" story has been taken up by those who like their caricatures drawn in stark, bold lines. According to scuttlebutt that emerged in the British press in July 2002, President Bush, Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, and France's President Jacques Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of the French economy. "The problem with the French," Bush afterwards confided in Blair, "is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."
The source was Shirley Williams, also known as the Baroness Williams of Crosby, who claimed "my good friend Tony Blair" had recently regaled her with this anecdote in Brighton.
Lloyd Grove of The Washington Post was unable to reach Baroness Williams to gain her confirmation of the tale, but he did receive a call from Alastair Campbell, Blair's director of communications and strategy. "I can tell you that the prime minister never heard George Bush say that, and he certainly never told Shirley Williams that President Bush did say it," Campbell told The Post. "If she put this in a speech, it must have been a joke."
Before slamming the president, at least be certain that what you're slamming him for is real.
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Re: GW Bush
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French trains run on time? HA!!
> Go to France and take a TGV train, they run on time to the second.
I just got back from my 5th trip to France, this time it was for a month, and we took trains the entire time we were there. At one point the train 40 mins after our train arrived BEFORE our train and when a French woman saw our family consternation about whether it was the right train to get on or not she said "nope, it's the next train.. don't worry though, that's just French trains in action!"
So much for the accurate French train theory. As generally depressed and miserable as they are, I do have an affinity for, and understanding of, the French. And if you've had the bad French experience (e.g. Parisien snobbery, indifference, or disgust), I highly recommend you go to the countryside or a place like Aix-en-Provence where the people are downright friendly and charming.. I'm willing to bet it will turn your opinion around.
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Please travel guys!!
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But I think the main difference isn't only about French being more complicated than English (that's my point of view, I may be wrong on this one), but also the fact that French people seldom speak the French that you learn from books or dictionnary. They use what they call "Argot", and the big problem is that it's very different of "correct French". This issue was pretty obvious when I first came in France and couldn't speak French. As I learned it from teacher and spoke with friend I found out that many words didn't have the same meaning at all. I mean who can guess at first that "se barrer" (literally, to strike oneself) and "se casser" (to break oneself, don't ask me what it could possibly mean in English :)) both mean in Argot "to go away" ?
I suppose English people do the same (what you call "modern slang"), but the guesswork in French is definitely harder.
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Internet
Google on the other hand does not control information they are a pure search engine, all they do is send out trackers to find the most relevent information for your search, and give search relavent adds.
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French "Google"
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Unreachable
In France's defense, Google Earth's coverage of France is not all that great. There are no buildings, and the eiffel tower is pretty sad looking.
However, for the French to create their own portal, rather than contributing to a world project, shows me the contempt they have for the rest of the planet.
With the Tour de France coming up, some high detail and topographical variety of the area will be a big seller.
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The French
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They're not copying Google
The IGN website only covers french territory, and has a resolution far superior to Google's.
The move for a french search engine was admitedely stupid given the fact that Google.fr does a remarkable job of indexing french content.
Document scanning is another subject: They do not want to mimic Google here, but make the french book heritage numerically available.
The "Bibliothèque de France" and the "INA" are digitizing all their document for future generation.
Why always relate all french internet moves to Google ?
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Another remark:
So many anti-french racism here.
You love to live with clichés, don't you ?
It's sad - really.
Yes, I'm french.
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Re: Another remark:
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That's what i tried to mean in #51. Of course, talking about literature and having mastery of it, any language is difficult.
"And it is my belief that there are almost no languages with the sheer versatiliy of the english language."
Then you don't know the "greatness" of Vietnamese which is one of the few languages in the world without official grammar :).
P.S. : I'm 18, and I'm not studying linguistics at all :p
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IGN = half a meter per pixel for the whole french teritory
Enough said.
K.
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If it were Canada, we'd all be asking them about igloos and out-houses. Kind of like you guys with the Belgians.
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Credit where it's deserved.
Though not disputing the quality of French wine, I don't put much stock in accomplishments that depend, in large measure, on accident of birth. In this case, physical geography. If you believe the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" (Jared Diamon), humans are reliably good at taking advantage of the opportunities that their land/plants/animals/location give them. I'm not impressed with the people simply because they live over vast oil fields. Further, I expect them to get good at extracting it. It would be a surprise if they didn't, just as it would be if the French and Northern Californian's *weren't* good at making wine.
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Better examples of French accomplishments
You can find better examples of French accomplishments than this. Airbus is generally leap-frogging with Boeing, not clearly superior, the A380 is delayed (last I heard). The Concord was cool, but an economic corner case that they finally, mercifully, pulled the plug on. Long ago when I heard about min-tel I thought it was neat; but what are they doing now -- an us-only derivative of Google Earth.
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USA uber alles
We all have to speak english, buy only american products, close universities, hitech companies, stop thinking unles its in english and profits an american company.
Am I mising something here?
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