Instant Messaging Still Not Ruining Kids' Grammar
from the again? dept
A few years ago, teachers and parents started worrying that "txt speak" from IM and SMS text messages was contributing to the downfall of the language, as kids would mix in txting shortcuts into school papers and such. However, study after study has shown this to be false. In 2003, a study showed all this use of text messaging helped make kids feel more comfortable with writing. In 2004, a study found that most kids were smart enough to understand the differences in writing formally and writing text messages to friends. In 2005, research showed that kids today are actually better writers than in the past ("using far more complex sentence structures, a wider vocabulary and a more accurate use of capital letters, punctuation and spelling"), even if they allowed the occasional txting shortcut into their papers. So, we're past the halfway mark in 2006 -- it's about time someone came out with this year's report saying the exact same thing. Thanks to Slashdot, we find out that it's the University of Toronto, whose researchers apparently decided the past studies weren't enough and did their own, showing no ill effects on writing from all that text messaging. So, now we have four years worth of studies, all saying the same thing. Can we finally put to bed the idea that text messaging is bad for kids' writing skills?
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maybe
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OMGWTFBBQ
So it's true that it's not text messagings fault for starting it, but text messaging kind of keeps in going. It keeps kids writing all year with not expectations except the expectations that anyone should understand what your writing, or they're not worth writing to.
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Re: OMGWTFBBQ
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Re: OMGWTFBBQ
By the way, that was a pretty well written entry. I guess you feel that Techdirt has some high expectations for you.
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no wai
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Re: no wai
I IM with my 10-year-old on occasion and he is a decent typer and communicates quite well because of it. His spelling and grammar could use some improvement, but that has nothing to do with IM. We used to chat on the Vax back in the mid 80's and developed what we called "Hakspeek", which was just the same kind of stuff everyone does now. 20 years later, I am a proficient enough typist to avoid that stuff.
The real problem is that people don't _read_ anymore, which is why you will see so many words spelled fo-net-tik-lee. It's obvious the person hasn't seen the word in writing. I watch plenty of TV and spend time on the Web, and don't consider myself a huge reader (2-3 books a month, some serious, some fluff), but apparently I'm wrong given that recent piece about how many folks never crack a book after high school or college.
That's the real problem. People think reading digg.com or even TechDirt is the equivalent of reading a good book. Far from it... this stuff is brain candy, even if some useful discussions are spurred from it. I don't think the Internet has caused this problem although it is probably contributing to it. Given how many grammar and spelling problems you see in magazines and newspapers, and my favorite example, local news broadcasts, there seems to be a diminishing standard of correctness... and when you get on the Web, the idea of "editor" even among "reputable" newspaper and magazine sites, etc, seems to be virtually non-existent.
IM isn't any worse than the slang any kid uses in any period of history ("Dude, Aristarchus is such a bonehead.") As long as he knows what's slang and what's proper, there's no problem.
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Brilliance
If children cant understand the difference between 'see you later' and 'c y4 l8r' they really arn't at a level of comprehention and literacy to be judged as a deciding body to compare instant messaging/texting to the general student population.
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Re: Brilliance
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Re:
Ultimately, however, you can't do that unless you are properly educated, and that requires much work above and beyond regular schooling. Many schools do a lousy job of teaching the basics... it's more important to be able to put a condom on a banana than to be able to write a coherent paragraph, but even the good schools can't replace an environment where reading is encouraged and practiced. My wife and I read all the time, but it's still a lot of work to try to get our kids to read... TV and electronics are a huge distraction, but once we pull the power plug and after a couple minutes of griping, the kids will gladly switch over to other activities, including pulling out a book, or (Heaven Forfend!) going outside and getting some exercise.
I have nothing against TV and video games and other trappings of our time (I grew up in front of the tube and turned out OK), as long as they are moderated with more productive activities. The best thing parents can do is set a good example.
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But what about...
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My contacts must be abberations
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Re: My contacts must be abberations
This media has just given people who aren't strong in - or don't care about - grammar, punctuation, etc a place to be lazy and get away with it. In the past, those people learned enough English to fill out the forms and get by - and I know plenty of them who lead normal over-35-y-o lives avoiding as many literary activities as possible. :)
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Was I the only one that noticed?
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Re: Was I the only one that noticed?
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Re: Was I the only one that noticed?
Yup, must be all that text messaging I do. Thanks for pointing it out. Fixed. :)
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It's not txt messaging...
I don't ever remember a single lesson on how to structure a sentence ("don't end a sentence on a predicate" doesn't count). Nor do I remember a course on sentence flow and readability. I had to learn that by reading books.And the only reason I read regularly is because my parents are avid readers. The books they assigned at school sure didn't inspire me to go out and discover more to read.
The only reason I can spell with the proficiency I can now is that I took an intrest in word origins (which is how I am told spelling bee competitors do it). Rote learning just can't cover it all.
The point I am getting at is that instead of complaining that kids don't use propper grammar, maybe we should be teaching them why grammar is important and more importantly *how to use it*.
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And IMing help kids improve their spellings somewhat.
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grammar nazi
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No way...
Hogwash. Complete hogwash.
I've proofread papers that have those shortcuts in them. "Study after study" is flawed. When you're handing something in to your teacher, substiuting u for you and cuz for because is... bloody ridiculous and subconscious as every kid says they didn't know that they did it.
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Re: No way...
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Re: Re: No way...
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Re: No way...
No one was saying that this NEVER happens. The point is that it's not necessarily the text messaging that's the problem. Either way, I would tend to trust academic research on the topic, rather than a single anecdote...
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Re:
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forum grammar nazi's
I have people proof read fic's Iwrite and I've learned more from them reminding me the proper use of "then and than" then my english teacher ever did. I took advanced english classes and I have to agree w/ the guy who said schools didn't teach me HOW to structure a sentance so it was readable, I had to write in order to learn that. IMing all the time is a great way to learn how to write what you mean, there's no inflections in ones voice, you don't get to say "you know what i'm saying right?" all the time because NO, we DON'T know what you're saying. I've learned to more accurately learn to express my meaning tactfully throught txt and IM then by any english lesson
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Re: forum grammar nazi's
"fic's" ??
"Iwrite" ??
"then my english teacher" ?? (then what???)
Looks like you really did learn somethng didn't you? Maybe people around here should check their own spelling and grammar when commenting.
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Re: Re: forum grammar nazi's
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They are forgetting something.
txtmsg wz inv. 2 keep $s dn. (and make messaging on the phone less of a chore before the T9 dictionary was invented... I still haven't mastered one finger SMS no jutsu.)
Naturally, the entire phenomenon was ported wholesale to PC IMing, where it is now used since it's much faster to type like that.
Pompous professors simply have no imagination whatsoever...
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What's everyone flipping out about?
If anything, the internet was always a place for me to practice newly learned grammar concepts while growing up. If you have a kid that is prone to bad grammar, he's going to have bad grammar regardless of what's of how it's displayed.
One kid might not know how to structure a sentence properly and make up most of the grammar. That same kid with messaging experience would refer to using his texting expertise as a place holder of his lacking grammar knowledge.
We're all way too quick to point the finger.
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Re: What's everyone flipping out about?
my ribs is hurtin
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Grew up with AIM
I think ICQ really improved my writing, as it wasn't instantaneous.. more of a text messaging kind of thing. AIM at first seemed a bit too quick for me.
But as time went by, my friends and I learned to adapt, and I think we can differentiate between AIM and what we write at the office, schools, and email.
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What treachery is this?
It’s the EVOLUTION of language. If today’s children are being more efficient with their writing and EVERYONE understands what they are saying, then it’s still functioning (better than before) as effective communication. Everyone needs to let go of these rigid notions of what everything is supposed to be and accept what it’s becoming. Those who try to hold back progression will only be left behind. You can quote me on that.
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It is not the writing.
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rofl my waffles...
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coding will ruin your writing skills
spelling and capitalization are not that important if you use a decent word processor to write important documents.
as any coder will tell you, it's not important to spell correctly, just consistently.
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Re: coding will ruin your writing skills
I would LOATH to see your work, especially since you obviously prefer to let software do it for you, you aren't a coder, you are a pathetic script kiddy!!!!
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Re: Re: coding will ruin your writing skills
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Re: Re:
"Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking"
-Albert Einstein
This doesn't excuse schools from inadequate teaching. Quite the contrary, schools should be required to teach children grammar in several different languages with different origins and different grammatical structures (i.e. english, spanish, japanese). However, I'm concerned about you. Why aren't you following your creative pursuits? I think a better impression would be set on your children if you were in the pursuit of invention or formulation of theories than sitting on your ass reading about other peoples ideas without any of your own...
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Coding?
Anyway, when I was in elementary school, we had typing classes, english, and everything. I don't remember a thing from the English classes... I've always read, I still read, and years in high school was spent doing Latin because I wanted to learn grammar and sentence structure... I learned more in my Latin class than English ever taught me.
I'm a naturally good at spelling, too.
This whole business of TXTing killing children has some merit, I think, in some cases... in IM, I don't spend a lot of time writing punctuated and capitalized sentences but otherwise stay true to the conventions. I will type properly the first time I meet someone, because I think the first impression counts more. To me, if you type properly when you first meet me, I'll know you can do it and if you stop after that, I won't care.
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Kids and grammar
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Seeking Help
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Its destroying
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um no
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lesbos
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Re: lesbos
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grammar
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