Microsoft: The Heavyweight OS Is Here To Stay

from the great-vistas dept

Mon, Jul 16th 2007 7:17pm — Joseph Weisenthal

Considering all of the tumult surrounding the release of Vista, not to mention the lukewarm reaction to it, there's been a lot of discussion over whether or not Vista represents the last Windows operating system of its nature. On top of everything else, the emergence of web-based software is rapidly reducing the significance of the client-side operating system. But Microsoft insists that Windows as we know it here to stay and that the successor to Vista will be another "heavyweight" system. It's not surprising that Microsoft would have this attitude, as it has little choice but to continue feeding the Windows cash cow. The question for Microsoft, then, is whether it can do a better job of pushing out the next operating system than it did with Vista. Has the company identified why the product development cycle went so far awry, or can customers expect multi-year delays, once again? And can it address other complaints, such as the prodigious amount of computing power that it takes to run? It seems pretty safe to say that unless it addresses these issues, it's unlikely that the next version of the operating system will see any more success.

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Filed Under: software, vista, windows
Companies: microsoft

96 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jul 2007 @ 7:30pm

so can we officially say Vista is dead?

wow
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dorpus, 16 Jul 2007 @ 7:56pm

i-tunes doesn't work
It gets a funny black screen when I start it up, I have to click into other windows and go back into it.

The last set of "security patches" for Vista disabled i-tunes completely, so I had to reinstall it.

I can just imagine MS and Apple blaming each other for it, too.

Installing SAS didn't work either, I went into the install disc and set dozens of binaries to XP compatibility mode. It worked then. Every software I've installed on Vista has been a scary adventure.
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xubuntu, 16 Jul 2007 @ 8:24pm

keep it easy on the resources msofties!
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Haywood, 16 Jul 2007 @ 8:32pm

Eventually they will make it work, (sort of)
They have way too much riding on Vista to back down now. They will whittle away at the bloat and eventually release a usable product which will likely in reality be XP SP3. I'm definitely taking a wait and see approach, I'm pretty happy with XP, but eventually, something I want badly will require Vista, and that will bring me into the fold. I will come kicking and screaming, but I will go. I'm a gamer, so don't even bother suggesting Linux of any flavor, unless it comes with Lindirect-X10.
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Overcast, 16 Jul 2007 @ 8:39pm

And as we all know, Microsoft's predictions are never wrong..

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981
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GoblinJuice, 16 Jul 2007 @ 8:42pm

*looks at recently purchased copy of Vista Ultimate*
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 16 Jul 2007 @ 8:45pm

Evolutionary dead-end
The idea of actually trying to sell a closed-source operating system has reached a dead end. Microsoft may promise another heavyweight upgrade, but it's not going to be able to deliver.
Neal Stephenson predicted this years ago, in his essay "In The Beginning Was The Command Line". Still well worth a read.
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Charles Griswold, 16 Jul 2007 @ 9:12pm

Re: Xubuntu
I'm running OpenSUSE, which is admittedly not exactly light-weight. I also have Knoppix for live boots and DSL-N on a bootable USB pen drive.

IMHO, Windows is only really necessary for gaming. I look forward to the day when Mac gaming catches up with Windows gaming. Then we will literally have no need for Microsoft. Maybe, at that point, they will be forced to make a version of Windows that is worth using. I'm not holding my breath, though.
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Rick Page, 16 Jul 2007 @ 9:57pm

Microsoft: The Heavyweight OS Is Here To Stay?????
I've had it and that includes all the virus/adware software BS.

Here is the way I see my progression 3.11 to 95 to 98 to 'Millineum the Joke' to 2000 to XP to soon to be Mac.
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Eric Moore, 16 Jul 2007 @ 10:33pm

When is MS going to do what Apple did?
Which essentially was use a Linux kernel with their own desktop? Doesn't this make sense? It's not like like they haven't done this before (.NET and C# being a Java rip off)? OSX blows doors on all versions of Windows. Apple doesn't seem to have a problem developing new versions of their OS, and they don't have the same resources that MS has. I don't get it.
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Buzz, 16 Jul 2007 @ 10:37pm

one less customer for Microsoft...
I use Linux now, but I am no Linux fanboy. I switched to Linux after being repeatedly offended by Microsoft's brute force tactics. Back in the day, I supported Microsoft greatly. I wanted Windows to overtake Macintosh, and I was happy they did.

Now, Microsoft no longer offer products so innovative that we actually WANT them. Instead, they just say, "OK, kids, time to upgrade! Why? Because we said so!" As a software developer, I see no advantage to learning Vista-specific API. The recent releases of Halo 2 and Shadowrun are classic jokes. They were paraded as "Vista only" games, but after a few light tweaks, they were both XP compatible. I am sure that Microsoft will continue this pattern with future software releases.

Now, I program in Java, PHP, MySQL, and whatever other open source language comes my way. Why? They are FREE and supported on all operating systems. (On a side note, I am amazed that an IDE like Netbeans is completely free. I will NEVER invest in Microsoft development tools.)
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meh, 16 Jul 2007 @ 10:42pm

I've been using vista for a few months now without any issues other than a couple of incompatibilities. All but one of those has been fixed by the emulation modes that are built in.
My system is dual boot with ubuntu but I rarely use Linux due to the need to twitter and tweak everything to get it to minimally work. I still haven't gotten Linux to fully work and I don't have time to play with it.
For a good portion of the population I don't see the "heavyweight" OS going anywhere. Even my retired father couldn't get by with all web based apps due to his MIDI needs.

Just think, once they've convinced everyone that "there's no need" to store anything locally, the government can step in and search to their hearts content under the covers. RIAA and the MPAA can finally have access to everyone's media.
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ubuntu + beryl :), 16 Jul 2007 @ 10:57pm

apple only has to write for a limited amount of hardware.

on a totaly unrelated note, maybe microsoft could try to get the next os to run on a weaker system? shouldent be too hard since they set the bar so high already.
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Shohat, 16 Jul 2007 @ 11:59pm

Re: Overcast, wrong quote
He never said it.
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Shohat, 17 Jul 2007 @ 12:05am

Re: one less customer for Microsoft...
Buzz , you are as much of a developer as I am a bunny.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 12:42am

Re: Microsoft: The Heavyweight OS Is Here To Stay?
Microsoft: The Heavyweight OS Is Here To Stay?????
Customer : I don't buy this

is that old?
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Kenny B, 17 Jul 2007 @ 1:03am

I might just wait
Personally I don't have the hardware to run Vista (acceptably) at the moment so I'm just going to wait it out and see how it all pans out before jumping in and buying new hardware. It's the price of the thing as well and I wasn't too impressed that we were being charged more here in the UK than in the US!
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Scruffy Dan, 17 Jul 2007 @ 2:19am

Re: When is MS going to do what Apple did?
Apple supports a much smaller pool of hardware, that is a big reason why OSX updates are released much more frequently than windows releases.

I cannot even begin imagine the huge amount of developer resources that are spent supporting the huge amount of hardware that runs on windows (not to mention the huge amounts legacy hardware that still works).

This is not to say that the MS dosen't have development problems (the Vista delays and feature cuts proved that), but comparing OSX and Vista in this regard is like comparing apples to to oranges
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Ishtar, 17 Jul 2007 @ 2:28am

Wait....
Windows is considered an Operating System? Talk about a setback :o
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August West, 17 Jul 2007 @ 3:35am

Vista is Evil
We have told our customers NOT to upgrade to Vista yet. Tremendous problems in the business arena. Like most of the programs they run that are not written by Microsoft. (Yes, Microsoft, they actually exist. Its not just legend). Small companies often do not have the resources to upgrade everything they own every three years because some schmoe decides they have to. XP works just fine for them (and me). I removed Vista from my PC and left it booting to just XP. Too many issues. And all of the hardware I bought was listed as Vista-Compatible. Yeah right.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 4:00am

@ Eric Moore

You may be new to computers and networking, but Apple has been slower to release and actually delayed the last release to get iPhone out on time. There is some general sentiment that Apple will soon get out of the OS business all together and concentrate on their iPod business.

All of that notwithstanding, besides the fact that the Mac has such a paltry share of the overall personal computing market, Mac users enjoy the stability they do because of the way that Apple requires the hardware purchase to get the OS. If M$ wouldn't support 5 year old scanners and video cards with each subsequent release they could probably put out a far more stable product. But then you would cry to the heavens about the evil Microsoft requiring you to buy new hardware.

In summary, each OS has a place. I personally believe that M$ is running out of steam. I would never use the internet for all of my computing activities, but it is clear that many people will and Microsoft simply does not seem ready to respond to this paradigm shift. Will Linux be the answer? Who knows. But as it gains popularity and a greater share of the market you will find that you will have the same problems that you did with Windows.
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Squeaky, 17 Jul 2007 @ 4:56am

Re: Re: one less customer for Microsoft...
Wabbit shohat
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Brian, 17 Jul 2007 @ 5:01am

Next MSOS
I think the next version of their OS will be an improved version of vista... Sort of like Windows 98 to Vistas Windows 95. It will still be fat, but it will be more reliable. After the Vista debacle, they wouldn't dare do an entire OS rewrite.
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Team Tutorials, 17 Jul 2007 @ 5:07am

The real question is..
.. Why the hell do I want an online OS? I don't see the benefit. oh, and how am I supposed to pirate an online OS, this is crazy. I agree with MS. The only online version they need OS the one on the pirate bay.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 17 Jul 2007 @ 5:43am

Replies & Thoughts
Re #6 GoblinJuice: You bought it? HAHAHAHA!! Silly person. Paid, lol.

Re #24: Indeed, the kind that can be pirated. Why pay for something that doesn't work how I want it, and is horribly over priced because they wasted time and resources making it.

Re Video Game Makers: Wake up and everyone start using OpenGL. If you all did, then its abilities would continually go up, and it could easily be better than DirectX. The instant they FINALLY make most games for Linux, I am done forever with Windoze. I eagerly await the day.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 17 Jul 2007 @ 5:56am

Disclaimer
Oh, and I would like to mention before I get flamed by any Linux people that I HAVE tried the emulation software.
It works, for the main stream games, but a lot of the games I play are not mainstream, and are never enabled.
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Nasty Old Geezer, 17 Jul 2007 @ 6:23am

Market inertia
Micorsoft will be able to sell whatever OS they choose to build, for the foreseeable future.

THe installed base of users has a lot of inertia, with no overwhelming reason to change. (Flame on Mac and 'nix fanbois, I speak the truth.) Windows is 'good enough' and comes pre-installed on mass market PC's.

Hardware vendors from Dell down to white-box integrators get discounted license fees -- but that can be in jepardy if they dabble in non-MS OS and software.

MS has both carrot and stick with software developers -- MSDN and other support features make it easy to do developement for Windows.

Businesses that setteld on Office are locked in the proprietary formats and high retraining costs to migrate to (for example) Open Office. WINE simply adds to support costs, so that would never fly in a cost-control business environment.

Windows would probably have to rise to over $1,000 per PC license in bulk quantities before any significant number of corporate users would migrate away.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 6:28am

I'm not much of a PC gamer but couldn't you just keep an old XP box for that. Do most of the new games require Vista? That is wack if they do.
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TerpsFreak (profile), 17 Jul 2007 @ 6:30am

How does MS Stay in Business?
How can a company which averages a 26% Customer satisfaction rating (MS' internal numbers) stay in business?
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.Net Developer, 17 Jul 2007 @ 6:37am

RE: Market inertia
I agree with Nasty Old Geezer. Businesses drank the MS koolaid and continue to want MS stuff. I work in the Healthcare IT field and NONE of our clients or potential clients have seriously asked if the our application works on browsers other than IE, or OSes other than Windows. Everything they have is MS and everything they want is MS, so I will give it to them.
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ChaOS, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:20am

Re:
of course he never really said that.

You are an idiot.
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Z, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:27am

Use Ubuntu
I'm still using XP and Ubuntu. Unless i want to play games i really dont need to use XP anymore. I put Ubuntu up and with the help of Automatix it is easy to install most of the necessary software i need. If you want to try it download the FREE operating CD and play with the Live CD. If you like it : Install it! I did!
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R3d Jack, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:28am

It's not the "heavy weight" that's the problem
I recently discovered two other "heavy weight" operating systems that also run on Intel processors. One is called "Linux", and the other is called "OS/X". I hear both are pretty good, and they don't seem to suffer from bloat, erratic behavior, etc. M$certainly seems to attract top developers, and other development teams don't seem to have nearly the same degree of problems. Perhaps the problems at M$ are rooted in its management...
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MG, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:31am

UBUNTU with Beryl + VMware
HUH, I had the Vista Ultimate installed on my laptop (Z61p/1GB RAM) and on top of that MS Office Enterprise 2007 and that's all. I know 1GB Ram is not enough but after I installed Ubuntu+Beryl+Vmware Server (ALL FREE)and compared the performance, I decided to stay with Ubuntu. Why should I go and purchase more RAM now? If I want to depend on Vista, then God knows if I can use the same laptop after the first SP release. Probably more resource will be needed.
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xubuntu, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:43am

Re:
"Will Linux be the answer? Who knows. But as it gains popularity and a greater share of the market you will find that you will have the same problems that you did with Windows."

Except with Linux there were always be a FREE solution!!!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:45am

Re: Market inertia
I agree with Nasty Old Geezer. Businesses drank the MS koolaid and continue to want MS stuff. I work in the Healthcare IT field and NONE of our clients or potential clients have seriously asked if the our application works on browsers other than IE, or OSes other than Windows. Everything they have is MS and everything they want is MS, so I will give it to them.

Sorry for the double post...
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:48am

Same old story
It seems I've ready this story before, maybe about Win 95? Win 98? Then ME, 2000, XP, etc...

They all have different levels of total success, but they also all share a common story of comming out buggy, unstable, and giant resource pigs, much like Vista is now.

After SP1 for Vista (Jan 2008) many of the large problems will be resolved. Hardware will get faster and catch up, and in 18 months Vista will be as popular as XP is now.

It's not perfect, and the problems may be larger that previous versions issues, but the leap in function is also much greater, so this should be expected.
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Border, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:54am

Why the complaining?
I've been using Vista successfully for months now. After I re-installed it and customized it, I haven't had one problem with it. If I want to install new software, I research it first to see if it is compatible, if there is a patch, I install it along with the software. For instance, BF2, Steam, CS & Half-Life. I found all the updates and patches FIRST, then installed the software.
I really don't understand why everyone compalins about Vista at all. I love it!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:56am

Re: When is MS going to do what Apple did?
It's not a Linux kernel, it's a BSD kernel. Very different.
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Border, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:57am

Linux? Only for peolple who know what they're doin
Linux is fine; if you know what you're doing! If you aren't familiar with how operating systems work and don't understand that with Linux you can have full control over the kernal itself, you're just in for headaches. Linux sux!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:59am

Re: Re: When is MS going to do what Apple did?
You're correct, but it's not just hardware support that OSX lacks, (according to the Mac EULA, it is ILLEGAL to build a machine off the shelf to run OSX on)

It's also the limitations Apple added to OSX keeping developers out. There are many cases where Apple has sued (search techdirt) over people creating their own Apple software that competes with something Apple sells. This doesn't happen (as much) with apps written for MS Windows, the ease of coding is why MS Windows is THE gaming platform, not to mention also THE custom business app platform. (Think CRM, ERP, MRP, EPM, etc...)
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:31am

Re: Eventually they will make it work, (sort of)
This is exactly how I entered the Windows world.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:33am

Re: Evolutionary dead-end
And please tell me how will MS be overthrown when over 90% of the software out there is written for Windows. I love how people seem to like to predict the demise of MS Windows w/o taking into account just what is keepoing it the dominant OS.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:35am

Re: Re: one less customer for Microsoft...
Buzz , you are as much of a developer as I am a bunny.
A search through the archive reveals that Shohat has a history of calling people liars without any evidence. Ignore him/her/it.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:37am

Re: Re:
Be careful what you download for Free.

I personally use Ubuntu, I love it. I've used some flavor of Linux for years, and it has been a long time since I've paid for Software, but you need to understand that I'm happy to always tweak on my system. Free for me, is big $$ in service and downtime for the average computer user.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:39am

Re:
Direct X 10, only available on Vista.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:39am

Re: Microsoft: The Heavyweight OS Is Here To Stay?
Must be nice to be able to turn you back on access to soo many aplications. Unfortunately I run applications which are Windows only or run more reliably under Windows. I would love to make the jump to Linux but alas w/o the software base I can't do it and remain as productive as I am now. Mac is not an option and will not be one for the foreseeable future. Mac has the heafty price tag working against it.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:52am

Re: Re: When is MS going to do what Apple did?
Let's not forget the lack of software vendor support. Most software vendors code for Windows. This is one of the big issues peopel will have with mirating from Windows to any of the alyernative OS's.
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charlie potatoes, 17 Jul 2007 @ 8:56am

games, games, games...
You people disgust me...all you think about is gaming...you seem to forget the original purpose of the home computer..or 'PORNOGRAPH' as I so fondly call it. Let's get back to basics, shall we?
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WhereAmI, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:04am

Re: Eventually they will make it work, (sort of)
Fine. I will not suggest Linux, but how about OSX?
I play many of games on OSX, without a hitch or a crash.
Stop using Windows as a security blanket, there is no reason to not use an OS just because it is foreign to you.
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WhereAmI, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:05am

Re: Linux? Only for peolple who know what they're
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:06am

Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Microsoft...
That's nice. Doesn't change the accuracy of his comment.
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WhereAmI, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:08am

Re: Linux? Only for peolple who know what they're
My 6 year old son uses Linux, your headaches are caused from watching too much CNN & the Bloomberg channel.
There are "Themes" that make the Desktop "look" like Windows, maybe that would make it more "usable"??
I am sure there is a hack to make the Gnome-Control-Panel as useless and non-functional as any Windows version's Control Panel.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:12am

Re:
The whole web based app idea is pretty stupid. I don't think having to have an internet connection to use your application is crazy. this is doable in a business setting where they can host the application locally on a server but for Joe Average this makes zero sense. Ordinary folks will still require the application to be installed locally. Imagine being at home working on a something for work wich is due the next day and your internet connection goes down for the rest of the night. You would be quite screwed.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:14am

Re: Vista is Evil
I've been running Vista just fine for a while now. Though I see no point to haing ti at this time. Everything I have runs just fine under XP. Right now Vista is just a toy. There is no valid need to upgrade to Vista.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:29am

Re: Re:
Are you joking? Linux is still not remorely ready for the average computer user. It's still an OS for the tech savy. You want proof? Have a tech newbie try to install and configure it w/o any help. Have them try to install and uninstall stuff. I'm willing to bet they may have started out as your friend btu at the end they will be ready to shoot you.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:33am

Re: The real question is..
Network OS boot has been in play for a long time in teh business world. The verage person needs the OS installed locally. Not everyone has a nice and fast internet connect. Even less have a reliable connection. Non-critical applications may be ok witht eh whole web based idea but things like your OS need to remain local installs.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:35am

Re: Replies & Thoughts
"The instant they FINALLY make most games for Linux, I am done forever with Windoze. I eagerly await the day."

Nice pipedream you got there.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:36am

Re: Disclaimer
Emulation is a joke. Nuff said.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:42am

Re:
Teh end of this year and beginning next year we will see the release of the first true DX10 games. And as someone just said DX10 is a Vista only technology and given the horsepower of the DX10 games emulation will not be an option. As more people start adopting Vista and upgrading their cards we will see support for the non-DX10 cards fade away.

Do you know if there are stable drivers for the current DX10 cards out for Linux? The drivers I have now are pure crap and I wouldn't bother running a DX10 game on it.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:43am

Re: How does MS Stay in Business?
They make you need them then you can do pretty much what you like with the full knowledge that the users do not any viable alternatives so they will stay put and take it. Pretty easy to see.
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Buzz, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Microsoft...
LOL! Ummm... OK. So, I'm NOT a developer according to Shohat and Norman619. I must be having a severe identity crisis. What IS my occupation??? O_O
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:54am

Re: Re: Eventually they will make it work, (sort o
Too funny. You assume we don't know anything about the Apple OS. I have amachine on which I have Linux running. I use it as my netwrork firewall router. I have a virtual machine running OSX. :-) I like to play with it but I really can't do anything serious with the OSX. All my apps are either windows only or run best under windows. As for the game play thing. Sorry but none of the popular games run on OSX. Emulation is not a great way to run an application like a fps or anything else which is 3D graphics intensive. You take a huge perfomance hit. And with the comming DX10 games Emulation is not even possible. I am so ready to jump the MS ship but the problem is there isn't a viable alternative out there for me to jump to.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 9:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Microsof
My vote is basket weaver! Am I right? What do I get if I'm right?
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Buzz, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Micr
I do have the basket-weaving merit badge. I guess it's time to throw in the towel here at college, box up my computers, and move somewhere exotic. To think that some fool actually HIRED me for my web design skills. What was HE thinking?? ^_^
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no_matta, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Microsof
Norman619 and Buzz are bunnies, maybe you should become a basket weaver and I will get the eggs for them.
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Official, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:10am

Re:
"Vista is dead"
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:23am

Re: games, games, games...
Ok let's inform you a bit. The top 3 used for a coputer today are Web browsing, Email, and videogames.

Peopel like you make me laugh. You think you know how a PC should be used. A Pc is nothing more than a tool. What kind of tool depends on what programs you choose to run on it. Get a life.

If you were just joking then please ignore what I just said. :-)
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for
He was obviously blown away by your UBER L33T basket weaving skills. Anyway, I'd suggest avoiding any of the tourst exotic places.
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Haywood, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:28am

Re: Re: Eventually they will make it work, (sort o
I'd suggest a field trip to Fry's Electronics or similar. Go to the software area, and walk down the 7 or 8 isles lined both sides with Windows compatible software and games. Now walk down the isle with the Mac apps and games.
I rest my case.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Linux? Only for peolple who know what they
Too bad your "six year old" is not representative of the average user. Nice try tho.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Micr
I'd like blue and red eggs please!
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:35am

Re: Next MSOS
I don't now... Based on an interview I read they claim the next OS will be another major release not an incremental update to Vista. If this is true then we are in for a repeat of this. Should be fun. :(
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reed, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:37am

Re: Re: Disclaimer
"Emulation is a joke. Nuff said."

No you are a joke. Wine isn't emulation anyways, duhhh!
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Streaker, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:40am

Re: Re:
Heard of Google Gears?

http://gears.google.com/
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:45am

Re: Re: Re:
"Are you joking?"

No, you are as always

"Linux is still not remotely ready for the average computer user."

My grandmother, mother and father all use Linux. None of them are computer savvy. I don't know what that says about you Norman...:)

"It's still an OS for the tech savy. You want proof? Have a tech newbie try to install and configure it w/o any help."

Have someone who has never used Windows install it and all relevant drivers. Your logic is flawed.

"Have them try to install and uninstall stuff. "

Pretty easy with most package managers, but I guess clicking on add/remove programs is just too complex for people huh?

"I'm willing to bet they may have started out as your friend btu at the end they will be ready to shoot you."

I am willing to bet that you have a hard on for Windows. Congrats, it must be great to be in love with a bloated hog.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:46am

Re: Re: Re: Disclaimer
Darn it since you called me a joke I must be wrong. Emulation still is a joke. Do you want some cheese? I'd love to see you try to run a DX10 game using that. LOL!!!
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nice. I speak the truth and you basicly call me a windows/MS fanboy. None of what you said changes the truth of what I said earlier. Linux is not for teh Average user. They will need a Linux-head type like you to get it running liek they want it. It's not quite as easy as you make it out to be. I have played with Linux for a few years now. I'm not just talking out of my ass.
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Norman619, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:53am

Re: Re:
I seriously would liek to try and see wht my 8800GTX can do uner linux with open source drivers. nVidia has screwed teh pooch royally so far with their drivers. I spend $600 on a video card only to have them turn me into a beta tester. WTF?!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Nice. I speak the truth and you basicly call me a windows/MS fanboy."

You speak the truth? give me a friggin break jack*ss

"None of what you said changes the truth of what I said earlier."

Of course you speak the truth, I forgot the first time. Oh wait I speak the truth too!

"Linux is not for teh Average user. "

This is called opinion not truth, that is the truth from me ... lol

"They will need a Linux-head type like you to get it running liek they want it."

And no-one needs a Windows power user to help them with Windows? Wait, your spewing brown stuff out of your mouth again.

"It's not quite as easy as you make it out to be. I have played with Linux for a few years now."

Wow, you "played" with it. I guess you need to spend more time playing with yourself and less time speaking the "truth".

"I'm not just talking out of my ass."

Why does it stink so bad then? BTW thats the truth!
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Buzz, 17 Jul 2007 @ 10:57am

Linux is split
Linux cannot be so blatantly classified as easy or difficult. Each part of the system is different. When it comes to installing software, it is either really easy, not too bad, or really confusing. If the software is available in the package manager, it's a breeze (easier than Windows, for sure). If it's not in the package manager, it generally comes in two forms: an install binary or source code. Many of the bigger projects (Netbeans, Google Earth, etc.) come in a nice Windows-type install file. You just run the file and follow the instructions. However, if it comes as source code, having to deal with "configure"/"make" and making sure the appropriate library kits are present is not very fun. Sometimes I have to guess at what package it wants because the error messages are not crystal clear.

Aside from installations, Linux has many features I love such as being able to set ANY window to "always on top" (I heard Vista can do this, but I cannot find that option anywhere. Help?) As for software selection, Linux takes some adjusting. One cannot expect to find Linux equivalents for everything in Windows, but the exact same thing can be said in reverse. Linux has numerous tools (and even some games) that simply do not exist in Windows. Also, with WINE around, one can enjoy the best of both worlds (or just dual boot).
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reed, 17 Jul 2007 @ 11:13am

I am in love with DX10
"Darn it since you called me a joke I must be wrong. Emulation still is a joke. Do you want some cheese? I'd love to see you try to run a DX10 game using that. LOL!!!"

Yes, you are a joke Norman, but it is a very sad joke that makes me cry more than laugh.

No, I don't want your from-under-there cheese. That's just gross :)

Emulation is a joke in what respect anyways? Works great for everything but high-end games (Which is probably how your dumb*ss judges it)

You seem to really like DX10, must be because you are a MS Fanboy. Please name the games you want to play that only work in DX10?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jul 2007 @ 11:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: one less customer for Microsoft...
Awwwww, Norman loves Shohat. Isn't that sweet!
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Buzz, 17 Jul 2007 @ 11:41am

Re: I am in love with DX10
Halo 2 and Shadowrun both work with DX9 just fine. ^_^
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Jack Sparrow, 17 Jul 2007 @ 12:22pm

Bla Bla Bla!!!
Hello mates,

Argh!

You all cannot compare linux and windows. Why?

Cos I can't need to pay a lot of good money for a so worst piece of soft.

Cos I can do all kind of things a want to do with linux at less powerfull machines.

Cos internet use as far far way more secure with linux.

Cos I can control deeply what is going on at my pc with linux than with windows.

Cos each new linux version comes with REAL achievment insted this fake win improvments.

Cos I can realy define what sort of soft will be installed and control the process in my pc.

Cos Blackbox could be good for airplanes not for me or for my company.

Cos Vista, be honest gave us not new, not better. Jst new colors and new icons, walpapers.... hadaches, new problems(solved in early versions) Ohhh, yes, new and expansive machines!!!

Go ahead mate!!
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Nasty Old Geezer, 17 Jul 2007 @ 12:27pm

Re: Linux is split
Buzz -- I have not had much luck getting Linux/WINE to run programs -- but it has been a while since I tried. (NOTE -- not games, just Office and such). Maybe I should give Ubuntu a try.

I expect that the 'killer apps' for mass-market appeal of Linux will be in the hands of Intuit. If they would port Quicken and Turbo-tax to one or more Linux distros, then Joe Average will become interested. Especially if Joe thinks that the computer is safer with a non-MS OS.

Also, I doubt that any other brands would help -- even if they are file and feature compatible with the Intuit products.
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Another, 17 Jul 2007 @ 1:23pm

okay...
So I'll complain too... Vista really is terrible. I am dual-booting XP Pro and Vista, and Vista is never getting used...

Its a little prettier... but basically they didn't give us features we really needed, and took some of the great features of XP and tossed them... I hope XP will still work 10 years from now
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Dave, 17 Jul 2007 @ 1:44pm

Delaying upgrade as long as possible
Wow, I'm impressed with the vitriol in the comments. It goes to show that MS inspires a lot of hatred. I have certainly slandered them many, many times myself.

Though I have used other operating systems a little, I reluctantly continue to use Windows, because using it has made me a lot of money, despite its many sucky aspects. But as others have pointed out, it becomes less and less critical as web-based software improves, and I may yet dump it.

I did dual-boot with Linux previously, and it finally proved too inconvenient. Also, the driver that worked with my video card could not do the resolution I wanted, so I finally ditched Linux. But as Linux tools develop, I
wouldn't rule out trying it again, or maybe a Mac.

I have XP now, and I will delay getting Vista, if I get it at all, as long as I possibly can. And there's even less need to get the latest MS Office - that's truly a silly expenditure IMHO.
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Bits, 17 Jul 2007 @ 3:21pm

The best part of multi-year deployments
The best part of multi-year deployments is that people get a good chance to standardize on one operating system. As a comouter tech, the fact that XP has been out so long is great because supprort, tips, tricks, hacks, and software was ported to XP from Win2k. Working for a school this was great since we couldn't afford a massive migration. Now that VISTA has come out our new equipment is with VISTA and even with downgrade rights, it won't be a walk in the park . . that and VISTA is radiclly different from XP, whereas XP and Win2K were similar in their interface, file structure, etc. . . making it easy for a user to get around in the new OS. Some of the VISTA changes make it difficult to implement VISTA in our new enviornment. .

Back to my original statement, rapid deplotments of new OSs is not always the best thing in the world. I wouldn't mind if Microsoft took another 5-7 years to come out with a new OS.
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Bill, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:22pm

Re: When is MS going to do what Apple did?
C# is not a Java rip off. It is an evolutionary language written by one of the founding architects of Java. Essentially you can think of C# as the language that Java would have become had Anders Hejlsberg stayed at Sun.

Then Java fanboys would have been touting all the exact cool features that C# has but that it would have been called Java 2.0 or something...
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BRUTUS BEEFCAKE, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:28pm

VISTA - You can't polish a turd
With all of Microsoft's money it would be nice if they'd develop a new OS from scratch.

No DOS/Win95 legacy crap and no Unix base either. I like my Linux workstations and servers + my Mac but come on. Unix has been around for almost 40 years.

I'm not holding my breath.
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Reed, 17 Jul 2007 @ 7:44pm

Re: Re: Linux is split
"Buzz -- I have not had much luck getting Linux/WINE to run programs -- but it has been a while since I tried. (NOTE -- not games, just Office and such). Maybe I should give Ubuntu a try."

Wine is hit or miss, but generally most utility type applications work decently. Rarely perfect though. Ubuntu is a great choice for first time Linux users, great easy to use interface and the majority of hardware supported.

"I expect that the 'killer apps' for mass-market appeal of Linux will be in the hands of Intuit. If they would port Quicken and Turbo-tax to one or more Linux distros, then Joe Average will become interested. Especially if Joe thinks that the computer is safer with a non-MS OS."

Too late, check out this project for your Linux tax needs.

http://taxgeek.sourceforge.net/

Its called tax geek and I haven't personally used it yet. Looks promising though!
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 18 Jul 2007 @ 12:05am

Re: Evolutionary dead-end
Norman619 wrote:

And please tell me how will MS be overthrown when over 90% of the software out there is written for Windows.

Actually, at last count, only about 1900 apps had been "converted" to work properly under Vista. Compare this with the tens of thousands of packages that are just a mouse-click away with a major Linux distro like Debian, and you see that Microsoft is perhaps not so invulnerable as is often made out.
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.Net Developer, 18 Jul 2007 @ 6:53am

Re: VISTA - You can't polish a turd
"With all of Microsoft's money it would be nice if they'd develop a new OS from scratch."

Yes because what would make perfect business since.
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Jack Sparrow, 18 Jul 2007 @ 7:21am

Amazing!!!
C'mon,

90% of home users runs just web browser, e-mail and a text program.
Maybe the same for 60% at workplace.

Firefox and Opera are great and FREE browsers.
You also have Firebird and other great e-mail soft for FREE .

Ok, OpenOffice is still worst than MSOffice. BUT they are FREE and do the same.

We are talking to pay or not about US$500/PC.

For company with 1000 PCs, even with some kind of discount.. They will waste a large amout to get that simple set of tools at work.

Let's beguin to use our brains. The majority of Win user don't need to use it, to pay for use the PC.

They use win, well, they realy don't know why... just use it. For sure, this people just want to keep at the "confort zone" Be honest not so confotable !
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GoblinJuice, 18 Jul 2007 @ 2:15pm

Re:
here is some general sentiment that Apple will soon get out of the OS business all together and concentrate on their iPod business.

wtf? o_O
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