Surveillance Society: How Different Is The US From China?
from the some-similarities-here... dept
Over the weekend, the NY Times had an article that's stirring some discussion online, about China's new high-tech surveillance campaign, involving a ton of surveillance cameras combined with ID cards that include a ton of personal data about each individual. Much of the discussion is focused on the fact that US companies are often the suppliers providing the technology to make this possible -- the type of thing that gets Congress all riled up to start grandstanding. However, as you read through the details, you have to wonder how different things really are in the US. Admittedly, the Chinese plan goes further than what's being done elsewhere, but the Boston Globe (owned by the NY Times, incidentally) has a totally different article on how much money the Department of Homeland Security is spending on surveillance cameras for state and local governments around the US -- as well as an article on the push for the Real ID Act that would require a national ID card. Now, the easy defense for that is that it's to help defend against crime and terrorism -- but that's almost exactly the same claim the Chinese government is making. So unless we're willing to look at the same issues in the US, it seems rather hypocritical to complain about US firms supplying the technology for China to do something quite similar to what we're doing at home.
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Filed Under: cameras, china, civil rights, privacy, surveillance, us
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so.. uh..
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Re: so.. uh..
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Re: so.. uh..
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BUT ...
plus china is a bunch of hater COMMUNISTS ... they need to burn in hell for not being like us!!!
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How is it a bad thing to supply?
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Re: How is it a bad thing to supply?
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Re: How is it a bad thing to supply?
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A chilling effect
are obvious. A surgeon uses a knife to
help save people's lives but a murder can
wield the same tool to an opposite effect.
I'm mostly worried about the chilling effect
such intrusions could create in the USA. Do
we want the kind of society where everyone
feels that they're being constantly observed
by the state?
And what of abuse? The temptation to use the
system to alter any political outcome to one's
advantage will be difficult to resist. Irresistable
in fact, if past performance is an indication.
I can almost feel the boot on my face even now.
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Re: A chilling effect
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another 9/11 looks better than allowing the U.S. to become a totalitarian government.
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Growing up in Hungary you should have learned that totalitarianism is bad so I am surprised that you don't understand that to avoid it requires constant vigilance. Perhaps that lack of understanding helps explain why places like Hungary succumb to it. History shows, my friend, that coming from Hungary doesn't exactly make you and expert on freedom. In fact, I would say that the ignorant remarks were actually your own.
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Ummm... is not the implication of this statement that we are headed in that direction? You are quibbling semantics and the rest of the post makes little sense.
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Perhaps, have grown up in a totalitarian state, you are simply unable to recognize truth. Still, your credibility is sinking even lower, if that's possible.
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I'm not trying to catch you in a inconsistency, just want to verify how I read it is correct...
anyway, you might have grown up in Hungary and as a result think the USA is awesome...however, your claim that "our country is more free than *any* other country on the planet"...
well, as the AC says: "You are either being less than truthful or are continuing to speak with ignorance."
try most of the Western European countries, by any average citizen's definition of free(dom), they will do better than the USA...it might have been a close call prior to 9/11, but since then, and among other things because the draconian Patriot Act, surely you can't seriously think that the USA, (if at any time at all) still is the most free country in the world
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2000 year old question
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I don't get it.
The cameras are silly because they aren't cost efficient. I still like the idea of microchip tracking for people. It would contain very little data about me and I doubt the government would waste their time monitoring the average citizen. What do I have to hide? Nothing, that's what. I'd volunteer for the program in fact, if one existed.
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what do I have to hide?
All I can do is laugh when those that have no concern now are bitching about it later.
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More and more laws...
More and more Cameras...
More and more Freedom of the Police State to search w/o a warrant.
Soon, we'll all get RFID chips implanted 'for our safety and convenience'
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What would the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution have to say about how easily "The People" are giving up their rights?
The fought a war of rebellion against their own government (and won).
And how are we repaying them? By handing all that they fought for back to an oligarchy, in the name of convenience, fear, and apathy.
Jefferson and Adams would puke.
So easily bought off with things like: not afraid if you have nothing to hide.
Just because the cell door is unlocked, doesn't mean you don't live in a prison.
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As for the countries founders and their opinion? Lets see, if it were up to them, slavery might still be around, since most of them owned them.
The realities of today are much different than they were in the past, to not look at what is possible isn't a good idea and childlike.
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Profit says
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The realities of today are *not* much different *except* that we have denser populations, instantaneous global communications, weapons available to "the people" are nothing compared to what the world's armies have, and the world is much more "civilized" than it ever has been.
Every generation thinks today is so much different until they *become* the previous generation. Then they realize that human nature doesn't change.
-----
'In his first draft of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson listed the British crown’s support and importation of slavery to the colonies as one of the grievances:
"He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither."
The passage, however, was edited out by request of the delegates from South Carolina and Georgia. Jefferson (himself a slave owner!) remained upset about this removal of the condemnation of slavery until his death.'
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how different is the US from China?
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Re: how different is the US from China?
I have. And not as a pampered tourist but on business.
Not entirely. The US has more than one politician motivated by the thirst for power as evidenced by their actions.
The similarities are steadily increasing and surveillance is only one example.
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Re: Re: how different is the US from China?
both a wheelbarrow and a jet airplane have wheels, but that doesn't mean they are near being similar. if you've been to china, then you know of the complete control over its citizenry. the US is exerting more control than it ever has over its citizenry, but still is a far cry from china's level of scrutiny.
The US has more than one politician motivated by the thirst for power as evidenced by their actions. The similarities are steadily increasing and surveillance is only one example.
every country has politicians with a thirst for power - however the level of power, control, and manipulation by the chinese government over its citizens is far from anything the US does. our form of government does and can protect against any remote similarities between china and the US ever becoming more than that. furthermore, the chinese cannot have hope because their system allows for no change. our system allows for change, and we'll see that post this adminstration. any rational informed person can keep updated on the big picture and note the fluctuations without becoming a 'chicken little.'
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George Kennan, US Diplomat, scholar, author, called by many the "Conscience of America"
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The chinese people are probably not worried about Usama Bin Laden or some AfghanIraqIstans, they have no choise but the communist government ... ofcourse in years to come, it will be harder and harder to keep them away from freedom - 1.1 billion people? You'd need an awful lot of power to achieve that, unlikely.
The US (and others) are walking into a police state by choice, how can you fight it if you don't see it, from lowering crimes to spotting terrorists, surveilance will help us all! Ofcourse there won't by any camera's pointed at the people behind them, they won't be watched to see if they do something wrong ... Its happening on so many fronts, the ever creeping surveilance and government control - the terror front, the crime front, the "health" front (smoking bans, transfat, etc), the green front (how long until we all have allowances?) and there are probably more .. a multi-pronged approach that keeps erroding freedom.
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Try living in the UK
Oh well at least our news reports how much of a police state we're becoming...
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Re: Try living in the UK
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