Yet Another Casino Yanks Jackpot Prize, Claiming Faulty Software
from the unlucky-sevens dept
Apparently faulty slot machines that always seem to malfunction when someone wins big are becoming more popular at casinos -- and they're now not awarding larger sums. Last year, we wrote about two guys in Canada who thought they had won $209,000 using a slot machine, only to be told that they didn't win and it was all a computer glitch. Earlier this year there was a similar story of a man apparently not winning $102,000 at a new casino in Pennsylvania. In that case, the negative press coverage convinced the casino to pay up. The latest such case takes place at the Sandia Resort and Casino in New Mexico, where a guy was told that his $1.6 million slot machine win was actually a computer malfunction. He's suing, but he might not have much of a case -- especially since the casino is on an Indian reservation, and not subject to the US court system. Also, in this case, it's a little more reasonable to understand why the guy might not have a strong case: apparently the machine clearly stated that the payouts were limited to $2,500. Still, it makes you wonder: for all these slot machines with faulty software that's suddenly discovered after people win... what happens when machines screw up the other way? Somehow, we doubt that the casinos call them up to a room in the back (as always seems to happen in these cases) and tells them the machine screwed up and they actually won.
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Filed Under: casinos, slot machine, software
Companies: sandia resort and casino
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Gambling...
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Re: Gambling...
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Re: Gambling...
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Re: Gambling...
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Re: Gambling...
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The Vegas Brand
I know when I go to Vegas that the odds are in the favor of the house. That's a given. But I also know that the NGC (Nevada Gaming Comission) is ruthless in cracking down on manufacturers and casinos that try to "play games" with odds and results.
I know I'll be taken, but at least I know how...
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Re #1
Machine on Indian Reservation: His case = screwed.
Add on machine clearly labeled max payout $2,500: His case = less than 0% chance of win.
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Re: Re #1
Ah that's right. I forgot about that. Another reason why I think reservations are a bad idea (I know how reservation trials go, so this guy is fighting a losing battle).
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Re: Re #1
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Re: Re: Re #1
I'm no expert but I believe all the legalities are handled in gaming compacts negotiated between the state and the reservation. No idea what happens if a reservation spans state boundaries but I assume it's just a multi-party compact.
Peyote falls under the moronic federal drug laws and those do trump state law.
Law enforcement agents on and off reservations will cooperate to varying degrees. Sometimes it's a hostile relationship between the tribal and state enforcement agencies, sometimes it's fairly cordial. I think the LEOs on the ground (both tribal and state) would try to do what's right if a real crime were committed. It's the politicians/leaders on both sides that want to do the power plays and withhold cooperation for political gain.
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Sounds
The sign misread $2,500 it should have read $1.6 million
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saying "I think it malfunctioned when I lost"
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Bad Reputation
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Re: Bad Reputation
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Re: Re: Bad Reputation
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Re: Re: Bad Reputation
But, I guess I have to admit, at least there's honesty in advertising someplace. Just ironic it comes from a place considered to be dishonest and crooked.
Tim
http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay/start
http://myspace.com/boycottebay
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Re: Bad Reputation
That's really good to hear that they're doing the right thing, rather than just telling the player "you shouldn't have won, so you're out of luck - sorry".
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Re: Bad Reputation
I was ripped off at the Spa Casino in Palm Springs, california for $300,000 on a jackpot $10 machine. The machine was a product of Ballys, and sa dly the management of the Spa Casino a.d the Gaming Commission (who, by the way is run by the same trube
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Re: Bad Reputation
I was ripped off at the Spa Casino in Palm Springs, california for $300,000 on a jackpot $10 machine. The machine was a product of Ballys, and sa dly the management of the Spa Casino a.d the Gaming Commission (who, by the way is run by the same tribe that ripped me off) the Aqua Caluente
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What scares me is...
Let me assure any readers that it is NOT in out best interest to put a 'modified' or 'dishonest' machine onto the floor, this could cost us our gaming license, which frankly, makes us a whole lot more money than the $20 you lost or the $209,000 they are failing to pay.
I'm not too concerned about actual faulty machines in casinoes. What scares me is that casino managers (or whoever makes the decision) can just up and say, "That was a malfunction. We don't have to pay you." You have to basically take their word on it. And also the fact that they know that the particular spin of the wheel or pulling of the lever that resulted in the jackpot was a malfunction and not intended to payout bothers me. Basically meaning that the days of random chance on a slot machine are gone.
And this is why I would not go the slot machines at a casino. At least at a poker table the odds may be in favor of the house the outcome is more of a random chance.
Now in the example of the guy that won the $1.6 million on a machine that was supposed to max out at $2500 I'm willing to believe that was a glitch or malfunction but I think the guy should at least get his money back for that spin/draw/lever pull or whatever.
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Re: What scares me is...
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Jackpot Payouts
Whether it was a malfunction or not, just thinking you won all that money then have it taken away in an instant is cruel and unusual punishment.
I play at an Indian Casino and understand you have no protections for anything. If you get run over by a parking lot shuttle on their property tough luck. The tribe council makes all decisions on everything so good luck should anything happen to you when on the reservation.
Just gambling at an Indian Casino is a gamble but people like me don't care. If I'm not online then I'm at the reservation due to a 40 minute ride instead of 3 hours to Vegas.
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If it's really random, would they know that at all?
If not - it's obviously 'fixed'.
I'm sure the casino's don't really care about the 'malfunctions' if they are in their favor. I have to admit, I've never been to a Casino, although the idea appeals to me, well let's say - it used to.
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Malfunction
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Re: Malfunction
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Slot Malfunctions?????????????????
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Re: Slot Malfunctions?????????????????
It is a losing battle and not a fair trial.
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Re: Slot Malfunctions?????????????????
(I WITNESS ), A PLAYER INSERTED $20 INTO A MULITMEDIA ELECTRONIC DOUBLE JACKPOT CHARITY BINGO MACHINE AND
INSTEAD OF GIVING HER $20 CREDIT, THE MACHINE CREDIT
HER WITH $40 MILLION. SHE TOOK THE CASE TO COURT, JUDGE
GRANTED HER $10 MILLION. ( SHE DIDN'T DESERVED THAT MONEY).
THANK,
IN ALABAMA
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Dear Al (re: Slot Malfunctions??????)
The casinos have taken money from you? How so?
You missed an adjective in there Al, it's "problem". Can you guess where it goes? Very good, "problem gamblers". And yes, the casinos have taken the money from problem gamblers in exactly the same way that the liquor and beer manufacturers have taken away the livers of problem drinkers. That is to say not at all. You go to the casino, you give them your money, you get the mathematically predicted (and experimentally proven) outcome.
So nobody "took" anything from you.
When I go to lunch here I often put $5 in one of the poker machines and I play while I'm waiting for them to prepare the meal and bring it to the table. Sometimes I win. Most of the times I lose.
On Friday nights, I go to see movies. I give them $5 at the admission booth and get a ticket. Sometimes I like the way the movie ends. Most of the time I don't.
It's exactly the same thing. You spend $5 to be *entertained*, not to make money.
Sounds to me like you suffer from a very bad case of gamblers fallacy. Here's a simple test to see if you have it or not.
You're playing poker on a video poker machine. You win with a royal flush. The odds of that are something like 1:65000 or something in that range (it's been ages, can't remember exactly). After you collect your win, what are the odds of you winning with a royal flush in that hand?
If you answer anything other than 1:65000 (or whatever the real number is) then you're suffering from gamblers fallacy. The odds of any particular winning hand appearing are always exactly the same on every single deal.
For those of you not familiar with gamblers, they'll even do stuff like carry around their nickels or quarters in plastic buckets with ice in them - convinced that the machines can sense the warmth of the coins. You see the belly lights and electronics on the games warm the coins up so warm ones have been recently won and they believe the machines don't want to pay out to people who have just won.
Interesting industry. I enjoyed it when I worked in it but don't miss it terribly either.
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Reservation gambling...
Americans will go and gamble on a reservation, where the people running the casino are under no obligation what so ever to pay out. Where they can, quite literally drive a pickup over you in the parking lot, and you have no comeback what so ever?
And Americans go to these places and give them money?
In the hope of leaving with more than they walked in with?
Ah well, if you guys ever work out why the rest of the world thinks that Americans are not as smart as they could be, let us know...
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Re: Reservation gambling...
Where they can, quite literally drive a pickup over you in the parking lot, and you have no comeback what so ever?
I wonder if this means if someone drives over you in a pickup and assuming you survive you pull out a gun and kill the driver and get off the reservation before you're caught. Does that mean the reservation is responsible for capturing you and cannot seek aid from law enforcement?
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Re: Reservation gambling...
Americans will go to a completely unregulated online casino operating out of the Caymans or the Ukraine, the domain registered using a blatantly false name and mailing address, the web site has no phone number or mailing address listed anywhere. They go there because they received a spam e-mail guaranteeing "big payouts". They had to sort through 4,863 other spam e-mails promising larger penises, free viagra and dozens of 18 year old beauty queens who are dying to meet them. Then they'll complain loudly when lawmakers try to prevent those same scammers from doing business in the US.
By comparison, physically going to the Chernyobl Afterglow Casino and Mugging Parlor to taunt the gangsters in the back room seems like a rational choice.
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Oh yeah
First the obvious point - the if the laws in the jurisdiction say "max payout is $2,500" then the casino can't legally pay out any more than that or they'll lose their license. It's logical, it's simple.
Second, every machine in every jurisdiction on the planet (that I'm aware of) is required by law to display the pay table if requested. They usually have to display the basic play/payout rules as well.
The pay tables clearly state that if you get win W then you get paid C credits.
If someone consentingly puts their money into the machine without reading the pay table and then expects to be paid an amount different than what that pay table says, they are a moron of the first degree. Plain and simple. There aren't any "bad casinos" or "good guys getting ripped off". There are merely idiotic morons who whine too much.
All this whining I'm reading about "oh the poor guy saw a big number on the screen". The "poor guy" had all the possible game outcomes written down and available for him to read at the press of a button. How does that make him abused or defrauded or otherwise taken advantage of?
If the "poor guy" had a single brain cell in his body what he would have done is looked at the tag on the side of the machine that says who made it. Then he would have ignored the obviously invalid game result, gotten up and gone to other casinos and played the same game on the same machines. The bug might produce a $1,600 win which would not be detected as invalid. If said idiot didn't plug in a player tracking card and rotated between casinos there's a chance they could have milked the bug for multiple significant payouts for a couple of weeks before it was detected and corrected.
But no, people are so f'n greedy that all logic flees at the sight of a big payout.
When people find big flaws in games of chance they almost always blow it by exploiting it repeatedly for the maximum they can possibly get. There was a guy in Canada that figured out there was a flaw in one of the provincial lotteries. He hit 20/20 in keno. Then he noticed the same numbers showed up on certain days. The idiot tried to collect on something like 6 or 8 perfect wins in consecutive weeks. He could have hit 20/20 once every six months or once a year and it would have taken 2-3 years before they caught on - but no, he had be a greedy f'n moron... Same thing with the guys caught playing a flaw in the horse racing computers. They'd buy the most expensive ticket they could on the longest possible odds to ensure they wouldn't have to share the prize. Of course the track spotted the strange circumstances right away. If they had bought a $1 ticket once a week they could have had a nice side income, but instead they chose a jail sentence.
Greedy and devious people == stupid people
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Yet Another Casino Yanks Jackpot Prize, Claiming F
This should be investigated and if these casinos are found to be ripping their customers off, their gaming licenses should be revoked and they should be prosecuted and do a long stretch in the slammer.
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I'm not
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Indian Casino's are 100% honest
In 2003 (my best year) I received over $160,000 all from Jackpots on Video Poker machines. I witnessed several $200,000 to $350,000 payouts in cash to "associates".
I played several days that year, and never saw any problem with any payouts. I would see and knew people who would "slip and fall" and try to collect from the Tribe with no success.
The point? In all my years of gambling, I have never witnessed a non-payout due to a malfunctioning machine. I'm sure there has been a few, and I would bet some were paid out anyway, even in an Indian Casino.
Do you believe an electronic device could never malfunction? If it's you playing on the machine, I guess not.
Bye the way, I lost about $120,00 back (over time) as even I know, the house always wins in the long run.
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Re: Indian Casino's are 100% honest
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Re: Harrah's not paying jackpot winner
I was playing during one of Harrah's progressive jackpot giveaways. The jackpot "hit" at $29,000 and all players were instructed to stay at their machines and an employee would notify them if they were the winner. An employee tapped me on the shoulder, verified my name, player card and ID # on my slot machine and said I was the winner, to stay at my machine and someone would be over shortly. To make a long story short, they awarded the money to another player. While still at the casino, the management acted like they were on my side...would get to the bottom of it...this should NEVER happen to one of our players, etc. But once I left the premises, I became the enemy...an annoyance and was told that there was no evidence to substantiate my claim (we both know it was on tape but of course Harrah's was in possesion and would NEVER produce it)and as far as they were concerned, it never happened. I should "do what you need to do but don't call us again." and hung up on me. I talked to NJ lawyers who recommended the NJ Casino Commission...what a joke. They sent Harrah's a letter giving them a time frame to answer my questions...of course Harrah's didn't even respond to THEM! The NJCC gave Harrah's 2 extentions on the time frame before they finally sent a letter to the NJCC saying "we interviewed employees and no one claimed to be involved...and the promotions manager verified the jackpot win so it was legit." End of story. NJCC sent me a copy of the letter and said it was out of their hands now and any further dispute would be between me and Harrah's. Lawyers told me Harrah's was holding all the cards and it would cost me more than I would ever get to fight them. So, I was out of luck. It was a horrible experience. I wish all of us who have experienced this could get together to form some type of class action suit. There is strength in numbers and unfortunately Harrah's has the numbers when it is just one of us against them . Good luck to you in your fight. I got no satisfaction or closure. My email is TBGNails@aol.com if you want to commiserate.
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That's terribly bad form
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Indian Casino rip off
Also...you pay $5.00 on a so called "Penney" machine hit a bonus to win (if you are lucky) maybe $15.00. I would really love to see Reno come back to life or, so many Indian Casino's go up greed and fighting would double between the Indians, fighting over customers. Not that if new ones went in they would pay out more, but it would take away from the others that has/is ripping people off. The machines should be monitored just as the ones in Reno, to be sure they are paying out, but they are not. The Indian Casinos do not post pictures of winners on their walls because there aren't any and if there is, it is a very small amount they make it sound like if someone wins $200.00 it is a big win......
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Indian casino rip off -the Spa Casino Palm Springs, CA
I won a $300,000 jackpot at the Spa Casino, in Palm Springs, California, and they did not pay me. They unplugged the machine! What a rip off. I took it to the gaming commission, and that was run by the same tribe. What a joke that was! How are they getting away with this. It needs to stop, it's unfair business practices. They need to correct their crooked dealings or be shut down.
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