Having A School Block Wikipedia Does Not Further The Cause Of Education
from the head-in-the-sand dept
We've heard time and time again that schools refuse to allow Wikipedia citations in papers. That's somewhat understandable. However, what's ridiculous is to go beyond that to the point that some teachers and even entire schools are now blocking Wikipedia entirely from school computers. It's hard to see how this furthers the cause of education. If anything, it does the exact opposite. If the concern is that Wikipedia may not be trustworthy, why not teach students how Wikipedia works, how to improve it and how to think critically before believing any particular source? What's amazing is that people complain about inaccurate info in Wikipedia as a reason it shouldn't be trusted -- but those same people don't seem to try to ban the use of the Encyclopedia Britannica when significant errors are found in it. And, when errors are found in Britannica (which some studies have shown occur just as frequently as in Wikipedia), they remain there. When errors are found in Wikipedia, they quickly get corrected. Again, though, it comes down to learning not to trust any single source as being authoritative -- and teaching kids to be skeptical of any source. Completely banning a source does students a complete disservice. Once they leave the school and encounter Wikipedia on their own, wouldn't it be better if they'd spent some time with a teacher assisting them to understand the pros and cons of Wikipedia so they know how to use it properly on their own?Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Fear of technology?
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Let's also block Encyclopedia Brittanica from scho
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Re: Let's also block Encyclopedia Brittanica from
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schools are made up by people with certain prejudi
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Meh
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Re: Meh
You see, the problem with schools in this country (well really, teachers and administrators), both secondary and collegiate level, is that may of them don't understand how evidence works, right down to the very most basic levels of data retrieval and analysis. So, they end up up telling you that you can't use certain evidence and that you should use other sources of evidence. Most often it's only because of their own personal beliefs about that evidence and not any real factual information. This is why we have science teachers and history teachers teaching theorems and historical events as facts when instead they should be teaching students about critical thinking and developing theories and opinions for themselves.
Those were really long sentences.
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i hate people who cite wikipedia
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Re: i hate people who cite wikipedia
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Re: Re: i hate people who cite wikipedia
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Re: Re: Re: i hate people who cite wikipedia
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School Systems
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Re: School Systems
Good thing you don't work in the English department.
It's whether
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Re: School Systems
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Perhaps it may help...
While I think that banning it is not the smartest move, it will end up forcing some students to dig deeper to do their research.
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Encyclopedias?
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Next you'll be in favor of...
I think this quote sums it up best.
Marlin: I promised I'd never let anything happen to him.
Dory: Hmmm. That's funny thing to promise.
Marlin: What?
Dory: Well you can't never let anything happen to him. Then nothing would ever happen to him. Not much fun for little Harpo.
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Re: Next you'll be in favor of...
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Stupidity
Our education system is a joke. We hand out busy work and standard tests as if it somehow shows us anything. What we need is a system that actually trains people for their fields of expertise and we need to accept the fact not every cares about every subject. Heck, how can we criticize the students for using unreliable sources when most of the educators we have are 20+ years behind in their own education.
If people don't want students using wikipedia, then make other sources easier to locate and search. It should not be difficult to locate and cite information as we are nearly in 2008...
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To teach "children" how to edit wikipedia is a lesson in futility. Take this forum we are posting on now. Newbies will spend hours trying to make their point across and will post endless entries to that effect. More valued posts will be lost in a flood of arguements. In wikipedia, those valued posts are edited out in good probability.
So in conclusion, take the content in wikipedia like you would the surveys in "Family Feud". Top 100 people surveyed with a question. The most popular answer in a survey may not be the right answer.
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Re:
For many topics, it provides an excellent base of where to start looking for further info. I recently read an article on operant conditioning and there were over 20 sources cited.
Then I googled the cited sources and researched who the people were and how they contributed to the research in the field. Once I found people with proper credentials (post grad degrees, peer reviewed work, books published and so on)it was easy to find those books and materials.
Wikipedia is very useful tool, but again, it is simply one tool in the arsenal of information. When properly applied to further research it can be fantastic. There are often incredible lists of references.
It's shame the schools don't recognize it for what it is and fear it for what it could be. I found more errors in the Encyclopedia Brittanica's article on OC than I did in Wikipedia's, yet the Encyclopedia was an allowable source.
That's just sad.
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Re:
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"But the truth is, that when a Library expels a book of mine and leaves an unexpurgated Bible lying around where unprotected youth and age can get hold of it, the deep unconscious irony of it delights me and doesn't anger me." ~ Letter to Mrs. F. G. Whitmore (February 7, 1907) by Mark Twain.
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See, they don't care if my Son misses a thousand days - nor do they care if he takes 'compentecy' tests, they just need the paperwork in order to provide the 'holy' state with to justify it all.
They are NUTS on attendance now, I assume the 'no child left behind' BS mandates a minimum attendance standard and minimum test scores. Understandable that kids need to go to school, but it was nothing like this when I was younger.
If they miss pretty much any day without a doctor's *note* it's unexcused. So if they have a cold for a day or two, if you don't take them to the doctor, it's unexcused. Parent's note won't work, only a doctor's note. Won't we all be SO GLAD to get national health care!!?? Of course, SSI refused to pay a bunch of my son's bills, but that's ok - national healthcare's better, huh? just be careful what you ask for there - you might get it.
That's BS - I shouldn't have to run my kid to the doctor because he has a cold. Particularly since there's no know way to really fight a virus anyway. Just rest and liquids.
As it stands now, he misses every other Monday for doctor's appointments, but they don't care - because I have a doctor's note each time. He was exempted from the 'mandatory' testing by his doctor, and they acted happy about it - seriously.
Now, I don't fault the teachers themselves, I'm sure many do care. But the administration, unions, government entities that deal with education are just looking for numbers that look good. Education isn't important - agenda for the 'system' is.
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Re:
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Burn the books, ban the guns,
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Re: Burn the books, ban the guns,
:(
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If they paid teachers more they would still want them to think they are always right, except they would be pushing their conservative ideals.
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Modern contradiction
Do not ban Wikipidia but do explain that this source might be wrong and then direct them to the RIGHT source, unless of course, you believe there is no right/wrong but that's a separate discussion.
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Re: Modern contradiction
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middle aged
Don't you think there is enough divisiveness without the boring old bleat that 'old people just don't get it'?
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If anything our problem is that we aren't skeptical enough.
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Re:
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You're the exception, not the rule.
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Those who can, do...
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People are stupid
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
My children will have choice and understanding not restrictions. Education is about learning and you cannot learn if you hide things. The education system does not care about learning; they care about results on a test.
The education system discounts personal experiances.
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Re: People are stupid
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It's All About Sex
Our system opted for another choice. We don't block Wikipedia at all; we let the teachers know that the site has some graphically sexual content and the teachers should keep an eye on the kids any time they are online (after all, filters don't block everything).
However, if a district decided to block the site because of the sexual content I think it would be politically easier to argue that you blocked Wikipedia because its reliability was spurious instead of opening up the very divisive issue of how much sex ed should go on in the school system.
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On one hand, you have the people who think Wikipedia is the greatest in the world, and on the other, you have people who think that Wikipedia is the Devil's book.
The fact of the matter is is that Wikipedia is there. It is ment to be a collection of information from people. Not some self proclaimed expert.
It would be like gathering 10 million people and asking all of them some questions on one subject. Not all of the information would be right, and some of it would be right.
Children at a young age should be taught to be able to differ right from wrong. If one artical states that a black labrador is 20 feet tall, weighs 500 tons, is purple, and has 5 tails, I should hope that a child could be able to know that that was wrong. How can they learn the difference if they are only ever shown one thing.
However, they should also be taught that Wiki cannot be used as a substitute as 3+ sources.
I believe that, when used at the right time for the right purposes, Wikipedia can be a good source.
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Re:
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Re: Re:
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Attendance equals knowledge?
Supposedly the rule is I have to be in an 'educational' enviroment. In reality, I'd learn more at home toying around on photo.net or wikipedia.com than I would sitting at a table, sleeping for 3 hours in a library.
Attendance =/= Knowledge
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Britannica errors
Did you ever read this followup to the Nature study (PDF) where it turned out some of the Britannica articles given were truncated, rewritten, and, in one case, not from Britannica at all?
And Nature didn't say the works were equal even then; Wikipedia had about one-third more errors, and more serious ones at that.
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Easy solution
I learn something new everyday from that site...
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Wikipedia citations
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Riiight
"If you want reliable information, read peer-reviewed established scholarly journals. That's what teachers should be emphasizing: how to do real research, and not summarize encyclopedias (of any kind). Of course, even they may not know how to do that."
So if I want to teach my daughter about influenza, rather than point her to the Britannica entry about the disease or Wikipedia's informative article on it, I should tell her to go track down some peer reviewed articles in Nature or The Journal of Infectious Diseases and Clinical Infectious?
Clearly written by someone who him or herself never actually reads peer reviewed journals. This is horrible advice.
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Re: Riiight
If your daughter wants to know about influenza, go ahead and use wikipedia. If your child is in high school and asked to do a research paper on it, do not use wikipedia. Go look at some studies on it, which are located in journals.
I read journal articles almost every day for my PhD research. Wikipedia is completely useless for any kind of real research. If want to write a two-page summary and call it research, fine. Then we differ on our definition of research.
Clearly, written by someone who really doesn't read journals or posts thorougly.
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Many of my computer-class mates (even I am guilty of this) will mess around on wikipedia, 'following the blue links,' rather than doing our assigned work.
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Wikipedia: the free ENCYCLOPEDIA
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Re: Wikipedia: the free ENCYCLOPEDIA
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Re: Re: Wikipedia: the free ENCYCLOPEDIA
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Since Wikipedia isn't censored (which is a good thing), there are particularly graphic entries for words like "penis." (You won't be able to resist searching for it now, just don't do it on a public computer.)
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Re: Peter
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You can't save it...
Wikipedia has no place in our education system, and our schools should not be wasting time on teaching our kids how to "properly edit" the site. Schools are a place for education, if you're going to block MySpace, block Wikipedia as well. I've seen far more vicious behavior on Wikipedia than MySpace anyway.
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Re: You can't save it...
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school
anyway why is that myspace is block we are not get kiddnapped we be petede
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You Are Completely Right!!!
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friends
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BS
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F
"When errors are found in Wikipedia, they quickly get corrected." Why does this myth keep being perpetuated? Sure, it sometimes happens, but sometimes it doesn't. Not every subject is closely monitored by experts all of the time. Yes, I do know of longstanding errors on Wikipedia pages. No, I don't correct them. I don't have a Wikipedia account and I don't want one. I don't actually care that Wikipedia is inaccurate as long as our students know it's unreliable.
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