Supreme Court Won't Review Case Saying ACLU Has No Right To Sue Over Wiretaps
from the we-could-tell-you-has-standing,-but-we'd-have-to-kill-you dept
In a rather unfortunate ruling, the Supreme Court has decided to let an appeals court ruling stand, saying that the ACLU has no standing to bring a lawsuit over domestic wiretapping activities of the federal government. There's a bit of a catch-22 here. Neither the appeals court nor the Supremes are saying that the wiretapping is illegal. They're just saying that only those actually impacted by the wiretapping can bring suit -- which is tricky since the whole point is that there's no way for those being tapped to actually know they're being tapped. This would appear to be a rather ominous omission in the "checks and balances" our government is supposed to have.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: aclu, standing, supreme court, wiretaps
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Applied to other crimes
Un-fucking believable.
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Re: Applied to other crimes
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Re: Re: Applied to other crimes
No kidding genius. Nobody said they were the same.
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I'm sure our rights aren't a concern for them - if this doesn't clearly say that, I'm not sure what would need to happen to convince a person...
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spooks vs ACLU
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Re:
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ACLU
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Correct Verdict
Think about this long and hard before you flame back, do you really want the SCOTUS to say it's fine to bring a lawsuit and compel discovery against someone with no evidence of damage whatsoever? That certainly would make the MPAA/RIAA happy but I can't say as I think it's such a great idea.
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Re: Correct Verdict
Would make them happy? Hell, it does make them happy but you don't see SCOTUS stepping to put a stop to that do you? It seems today's SCOTUS loves the MPAA/RIAA while hating the ACLU.
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Re: Re: Correct Verdict
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Civil cases have different rules
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Re: Civil cases have different rules
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Victims
so the aclu really has no right to sue. if you want to fly to the middle east or to europe and find one of the people who were tapped and bring them over here then feel free, but we all know that the aclu is just in this cause they hate bush. they don't care about wiretapping, they care about publicity making bush look bad.
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Re: Victims
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Re: Victims
Did you even bother to read the linked article? The issue is that these wiretaps were of American citizens.
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And you know it how? Divination? Reading tea leaves?
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Get over it...
I'm sure if the SCOTUS was full of brain-dead right-wing neo-cons, it would have made a definitive ruling and squashed the issue like a bug. If it was full of left-wing liberal commies, it would have struck down the previous ruling and forced the USGOV into open court.
The fact that it did neither shows that it still retains it's independence.
Hey what do I care, I'm not even a US citizen!
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Re: Get over it...
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...it doesnt matter...
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Re: ...it doesnt matter...
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Re: ...it doesnt matter...
The Supreme Courts did NOT say that these actions deserve no explanation. They only claimed that the ACLU, which brought the suit, can not show that it was affected by the wiretaps. In order to bring suit you must be a party directly affected by the actions. The ACLU did not show that they were.
There are two real problems to this. The first is that those affected can not show or prove that they were affected. The second is that there is no mechanism in place to bring this subject to the courts. Congress can act to rule to stop these wiretaps or even make them explicitly illegal. They won't since it would likely be political suicide.
The checks and balances are there, at least in theory. It's a sad commentary on freedom, liberty, and justice when what is done is for political gain or advantage instead of what is right.
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Fight for Democracy
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Lets open the flood gates!!
Before 911 happened, guess what are govt knew about it & what was going to happen and did NOTHING. In my opinion they actually added to it. Al-qaeda didn't fly a plane into the Pentagon we did (we as in US Govt) & it wasn't a plane but a missile of some sort but thats another topic.
Illegal wiretapping isn't making us any safer then what we were before. This is just a way of them spying without any type of warrant. Which is absolutely UNCONSTITUTIONAL and before any of you assholes say I'm unpatriotic, I think this is one of the most patriotic things to say & its also constitutional:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
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disagree - the ACLU is a pain in the @$$
The ACLU has demonstrated it is not worth any good deeds they perform. F-em.
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Secret?
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Todd: they **stole** the election?!?
c'mon think about it. They **stole** the election? Gore lost. He sued because voters in Florida proved that they could not read a ballot. Typical liberal, sue to get the results you want or feel you deserve.
The Florida Supreme Court agreed that there should be a recount but only in the most democratic 4 counties which went against Florida state law. The US Supremes overrode that and said that a recount could go forward but it must include ALL counties in the state.
Learn your history you douchebag.
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Re: Todd: they **stole** the election?!?
I didn't say they stole the election that was "gwjones". I said our govt was in on 911 & knew everything before it happened & still let it happen. Guess what you're not going to find that in any history book.
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Lowest Constitutional Review
The result is that constitutional reviews are only done when an issue is fully "ripe," fully developed, with a clear conflict before the court - with lots of legal analysis being done in the lower courts. When the high review is done, hopefully the analysis is mature and the court get's it right.
So it's not a catch-22.
That's not to say I agree with the ruling. It was resolved on the lower analysis of procedural standing. Where the injured party is uncertain and when the attack is constitutional, facial attacks that a law is unconstitutional as it applies to any and all of us do work and do have standing. It's clear the court simply wants to toe the loyalist Bush-Cheney line.
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Discourse
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Re: Discourse
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Discourse
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Re: Discourse
If you want to hear clean words I think you belong in "Bibledirt".
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Re: Applied to other crimes
That isn't to say this is a good decision.
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Big sigh
Want an example? Texas, for example, could pass a law tomorrow saying all people of Mexican decent should be arrested on sight, duct taped to rockets, and shot into space. The courts could not legally even hear a case regarding that law though until it's actually enforced for the first time. Until then it's just the legislature being retarded and if they had to get involved every time that happened they'd never get any sleep.
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Re: Big sigh
So, if you've been unfairly sentenced to death, the court shouldn't consider your case until AFTER you've actually been executed, come back from the dead, and then filed the proper claims? After all, until the execution is actually carried out it's just a theoretical threat.
Texas, for example, could pass a law tomorrow saying all people of Mexican decent should be arrested on sight, duct taped to rockets, and shot into space. The courts could not legally even hear a case regarding that law though until it's actually enforced for the first time.
And by your theory, probably not even then because the actual person shot into space could only file a complaint after the fact. Dead people don't file complaints.
The fact of the matter is, you are just plain wrong about the law. It is entirely within the law to file a legal complaint over a threat even before such threat is carried out.
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Bigger fish to fry people...
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ACLU
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