France Decides That Expressing An Opinion About Your Teachers Should Be Illegal
from the please-explain? dept
Sites like RateMyTeacher.com and RateMyProfessor.com have been around in the US for ages, but it appears that some other countries aren't too thrilled with the concept. Last year, a teachers' union in the UK demanded that the sites be banned which seemed a bit extreme. However, in France things have gone even further, as a court has banned such sites from naming teachers entirely, and is threatening huge fines if the site continues to do so. It makes you wonder what good the site is if it can't actually name teachers.Either way, it does raise a larger issue: what is wrong with a site that allows students to rate their teachers, and allows students, parents and the schools themselves to see what the students feel about various teachers? In France, they're saying it's a violation of privacy, but it's not clear what privacy is being violated. It seems the only violation is in preventing students from giving feedback and their honest opinions. Even the article notes that the average rating was quite favorable for teachers. This seems like the type of site that could only be useful. Yes, there will occasionally be an angry student who posts a bad review, but on the whole, you'd imagine that the ratings will even out and be accurate over time. If a teacher is really worried that their ratings are poor, perhaps that says more about their teaching ability than it does about this particular site.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: france, privacy, teacher ratings
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Bigger picture
Students have done the same thing for years giving teachers they liked/disliked nicknames anyways but when I went to school that was a local thing not something that could be subjected to millions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Very informative
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
How about rate my college.
WESTWOOD COLLEGE
A complete waste of your hard earned money - No job placement, more like they copy ads from jobs sites, no student follow up after graduation and most significant. NO NETWORK or VERY LITTLE NETWORK Equiptment for hands on learning. Bet Westwood will say that's also illegal - Not like it will stop me from spreading the word - Oh, and HP has the worst customer service - and ...and ,.... Don't ever allow anyone or any government stop you from sharring the scoop.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
however with the professors....i believe it's a bit different.
the teachers are "contractors" faced with the task of educating their students. and every client should be able to research and give feedback on their investment.
however, it should be noted that yes, it can be abused. i've read several posts on professors i've had that were just awful. yes someone got a bad grade and wanted to spout off about it.
however just the same, there were many awesome reviews. not all saying the prof was great,but actual intelligent responses and critiques of teaching style, assignments, testing, availability, communication and others. they weren't always favorable towards the teacher, but at least they showed respect for the person.
but as with any "user modified" website, it must be taken with a few POUNDS of salt. the ability for anyone to just go in and post willienillie....
so i wouldn't claim ratemyteacher.com as the gospel truth, but as some insight as to what's going on. and other people should dothe same.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
there we go
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
I have used it often and, even while I may have scored significantly above the class average with a more than satisfactory mark in a course, I have still posted comments regarding the teacher's inability to teach.
Sites like these benefit those who can make good judgements.
Mike
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Also, are you familiar with "grades"? It's an innovative system by which teachers can rate their students by means of assigning a letter, typically A-F in which A is the most positive and F, as you may guess, stands for Fail.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
There are just too many ***holes in this world to have a site like this.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
...and if you read the comments seems like there are a bunch of people like me doing the same.
Not a good idea. Sorry dudes!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: at Westwood College
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Just don't ask any questions...
Any teacher who's doing a good job educating students shouldn't have to worry. If I was confident in my teaching ability, I would easily let any bad remarks just slide right off.
I think it's just the bad teachers and bad educations systems that are complaining.
From this standpoint - shouldn't we ban things like the Better Business Bureau, Consumer Reports, and other product review sites also?
Or is it ok for people to give an opinion on Corporations but not teachers?
Which should really matter more?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
People don't tend to praise about the goods. The mainstream medias deploys a shock value for their news reporting, anything positive isn't considered "shocking"
We tend not to go out of our way to praise people but am so quick to act/vent when some wrong is done to you. That's why an average rating is consider favorable! Cause someone actually cared enough to write a positive review. That's why sites like dontdatehimher.com is popular. c'mon guys, this is not EBAY....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HA! The problem with this website is that there a few checks and balances to say the least compared. BBB and Consumer Reports etc have some more oversight than what is provided by this website.
Guess what buddy...I am an *** and I have rated my prof really badly because he pi$$ed me off even though he was really good.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ahem
Young+stupid+loud = damage. nothing good can come out a mouth of a person younger than 21.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Professors have grades, true, and students have the institutional course evaluations (as mentioned in the original comment). If the students feel it appropriate to turn to an independent means to assess their professors, then why shouldn't (or at least can't) the professors do the same?
If you're going to respond with "but the course evaluations don't matter", then you might want to explore just how professors get their raises (and a _part_ of tenure, the extent of which varies by institution). Those evaluations are _huge_, especially if you're an adjunct on contract.
If you're going to respond with "but the course evaluations are private", then it depends on the institution. Some make the evaluations public (a fine thing) and some don't (in which case RateMyProfessor has some merit).
The professor/student power relationship is nowhere near as biased in the professor's favour as one might expect.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
To The Mighty Buzzard and EVIL_BASTARD:
Professors have grades, true, and students have the institutional course evaluations (as mentioned in the original comment). If the students feel it appropriate to turn to an independent means to assess their professors, then why shouldn't (or at least can't) the professors do the same?
If you're going to respond with "but the course evaluations don't matter", then you might want to explore just how professors get their raises (and a _part_ of tenure, the extent of which varies by institution). Those evaluations are _huge_, especially if you're an adjunct on contract.
If you're going to respond with "but the course evaluations are private", then it depends on the institution. Some make the evaluations public (a fine thing) and some don't (in which case RateMyProfessor has some merit).
The professor/student power relationship is nowhere near as biased in the professor's favour as one might expect, especially when you're an adjunct or lecturer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Ahem
Yes, except go to war at 18 and die right? I still don't see the problem with giving people a forum to voice their options. Just because you think only pissed off students will go there doesn't make it so. Also, ever think if you actually listened to what students are saying you may be able to help them better understand the material rather then just give them a F. If teachers are given as way to rebut or explain teaching method this could open a new of communication channel to help strengthen the system as a whole. Nothing good ever comes out of telling someone their voice is stupid especially if you have never heard what they had to say.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
@ 25
"Too much homework", "tests were awful", "no review sessions", or anything which ultimately contributed to their grade is pointless. Professors are (usually) not allowed to fail as many students as they want, universities are mindful of that. If an appropriate number of people passed (given that college's difficulty/avg. pass rate), then good riddance to those who failed. And, to those who didn't perform well: that's the entire reasoning behind grades.
Furthermore, I would say that most of their opinions are worthless, even if they do make the grade. Their critiques are usually so trivial that it does not make one damn difference.
If a person needs to pick and choose their professors... I'm sure they do it on the quality of education and not the grade distribution (sarcasm). It's a stupid idea.
That said, you can't infringe on their right to voice their opinion, no matter how stupid it is, or how stupid the people reading it are.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I'm concerned about...
If a student complained about another student saying mean things, the teacher would bust out the old 'Sticks and stones...' adage, and tell them not to let the other kids bother them. Seems like it's the teachers who aren't being very mature here. Sticks and stones, guys!
The whole thing is very Orwellian...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
France
[ link to this | view in thread ]
This comment is banned!
Most of the judges/deans+principals/teachers are way over 50/50/30 years old and have life experiences where only main stream media (news & news papers/magazines) existed. A bad comment in one of these media was an (atmost) CERTAIN career death.
Now, the young students are all way bellow 18 years old, and their life experience COMPLETELY includes the internet, forums, comments, rating, etc, etc. They have a thick neurons layer in their brains to filter out all the stupid/immature/moronic comments around sites, and they do.
This is just the result of a new technology not being well understood by older people. This also clearly explains the so called "streisand effect".
What still wonders me is:
1) what (in the mind of these people) keeps the same stupid students from giving immature answers in the written revisions?
2) is it that these revisions are done for the sake of appearances only or do they give it some value and so something with the answers?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
A French judge decides..., not France
France Decides That Expressing An Opinion About Your Teachers Should Be Illegal
From the misleading headline, I thought a law had been passed by the French Congress or France's President had enacted a Decree that prohibited some sort of free speech related to teachers.
The fact is that it was the decision of a French court, not of France.
In the same guise as judges elsewhere order sites offline etc.
Another case of a misleading headline:
Brazil Wants Another Google Site -- YouTube -- Shut Down
It wasn't Brazil that ordered Youtube offline. It was a Brazilian judge.
And a case of a headline that didn't mislead:
Why Did A California Court Hide All Of WikiLeaks Over A Single Document?
It wasn't the United States that prohibited Wikileaks of operating, it was a federal judge in California that ordered "that its registrar block the transfer of the domain, force the registrar to point all visitors to a blank page and also having the registrar hand over all information on IP addresses of people who accessed the wikileaks site".
PS: I'm not french nor do I live in France. I'm just a journalist.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: A French judge decides..., not France
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Don't beleive everything you read.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Don't beleive everything you read.
Are humans getting dumber? Earth to mouth breathing droolers, this is the internet, you have to vet and validate it yourself. Which is much like life. Don't take things at face value evaluate, compare, research, explore, and question. Who cares that some anonymous poster spews near libelous rantings, ignore it like a reasonable person should. Perhaps the first thing people really need to understand is the term; anecdotal. I mean this is the internet you're going to come to a conclusion based on flappings from as single site?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
and ther pig Teachers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Fascist
"Rate my parents", "rate my neighbors", "Rate my neighbor's dog"?
It is very interesting to consider that this site has been originally developed by an angry student who was was frustated by some of his professors (perhaps a dunce after all). I imagine the same type of mentality in action in the 30's in Europe with the same type of technology: Sick!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Professors in France could use a little public evaluation
In most American colleges there is more of a culture of "how can I serve the student" than in France. For example, French professors don't have office hours. But on the other hand, I have found French university students to be less disciplined and more insouciant in the classroom -- they chat more during class, cheat more openly, etc. (I do not know about grandes écoles. I study medicine.) So the professors would normally be more frustrated in France and less cooperative.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
FRENCH HISTORY (of anonymous letters)
Are anonymous web postings (with all excesses one can imagine) simple acts of freedom of speech?
Any angry parent (everybody knows they exist)or any angry kid can easily post a bunch of anonymous messages, claiming the (real or not) teacher's incompetence and ruin a career. They can even pick up, as a prank, any teacher on the web, whose name they don't like and demolish a career.
- If the same anonymous texts were sent in US mail, everybody would call that harassment.
- If the same anonymous texts were graffiti on a public wall, it would be called slander.
Freedom of speech? Let's think about it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Teachers get beat up by these same students on campus (yes it happens a lot) but yes it's perfectly ok for idiotic websites to put teachers' safety in jeopardy so idiot students who have no interest in learning can get the American A (which now stands for Average) by their idiot names.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
1.The main problem, besides privacy issues and blablablah, in France, is that such a public rating system would encourage teachers to do a course to get a good grade, and not necessarily a good course where students get the hard things to do. A little bit like TV channels who make shitty reality shows instead of interesting programs to get audience.
2. In France university is mainly free, so students are not "consumers" who rate their service providers, but more lucky citizens getting education for free and who should be trying to get the best out of it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]