Turning Off Internet In The Classroom Won't Make Lectures Any More Interesting
from the competing-for-attention dept
Just about two years ago, we wrote about some law professors who were threatening to ban computers in their classrooms because students just weren't paying attention. While some apparently did so, perhaps it wasn't enough, because as Slashdot points out, the University of Chicago's law school has now decided to pull the plug on classroom internet connections entirely, as a dean was upset at how many students were surfing the web during class. However, as we noted two years ago, this seems to say a lot more about the lecture quality than the internet access in the classroom. Especially when it comes to a graduate school-level class, where students are supposedly actually interested in the subject, if the professor can't keep the attention of the class, that should be a problem for the professor to deal with, rather than by cutting off internet access. Either way, with 3G wireless access (and eventually 4G) schools simply won't have control over internet access anyway. So, if these schools are really concerned about it, rather than cutting off the connection they do have control over, perhaps they should focus on making the lecture experience more worthwhile.
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Filed Under: classrooms, internet access, law school, professors, teaching, university of chicago
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boredom is mother of invention
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It does not matter how interesting the lecture is...
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Re: It does not matter how interesting the lecture is...
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Internet during classes is really a no-brainer
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Re: Internet during classes is really a no-brainer
> to the lecture without extra curricular information,
> I'd die from boredom.
Wow, however did we old fogies make it through school without a computer on our laps to entertain us the whole time?
God help us all...
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Re: Re: Internet during classes is really a no-brainer
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Re: Re: Internet during classes is really a no-brainer
2)the environment has changed.
Since it's obviously not 1, it must be 2. What has changed in this instance, perhaps, is that the college student of today has grown up in a much more multi-task oriented environment. Perhaps the single, sustained source of information that a lecture can represent is indeed, through no fault of character in the student, a challenge for sustained attention. If you really were enraptured by your lectures all through college, then good for you old fogey, the students of today need a solution, not whiffs of your imagined moral and discipline superiority.
Personally I don't really think that computers are that much of a problem. I don't really think when a student is checking his facebook he's completely consumed by it and missing information from the lecture. I think he's just filling a gap in his brain's attention span that it has grown to accommodate from years of listening to music while studying on a computer with multiple applications and IM windows bouncing around on it. If his school bans his computer he's just going to day dream. Same difference. But maybe halcyon old fogies didn't do that either.
I routinely browse two forums simultaneous and I don't think it affects the quality of my comprehension or contribution if I read some thread about game design before replying to the comments here. It's a habit developed because of environmental constraints (slow internet which encouraged loading one page while reading another) that probably has low costs, but also some benefits.
Now, regarding the issue of the schools being for students because they're paying consumers, I tend to agree with educators on the matter (even if they're old fogies who might not understand being a student anymore). Students are not in the best position to judge what is worthwhile for them in their education. They're free to vote with their dollars and continue the trend of exerting more and more pressure on administrators, but I think in the short term that will shoot them in the foot by decreasing the quality of their education.
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It IS the professor
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First-hand experience
Taking away computers would drastically reduce grades in my school, where our learning is supplemented well by the internet.
w00t for Wikipedia!
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case by case
The only time mandatory attendance makes sense is when actual work is being done. For instance, my last English class featured many group assignments, so it made perfect sense to attend all classes (or fail otherwise).
Along these same lines, it really annoys me how people equate paying attention in class to productivity in the work place. They are completely different! For one thing, I am PAID to be productive in the work place (a stark contrast to PAYING to sit and listen to someone talk), and the work place is actually stimulating and demanding.
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Re: case by case
It is not about a boring professor/teacher, its about personal responsibility. remember this is not coming from a 65 year old Ivory tower Law Professor, but rather a 24 year old teacher who graduated college 4 years ago.
I comes down to personal responsibility, and it is the responsibility of a student to learn, not check their facebook while in class.
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Re: Re: case by case
You can't let students flit through elementary and high school with the misguided belief that results don't matter because they will be rudely awakened when they apply to colleges.
You sound like one of those fuzzy math proponents that has wrecked a couple generations of students and put America way down on the list when it comes to our math scores.
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Not so sure
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Re: Not so sure
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Re: Re: Not so sure
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Re: Re: Re: Not so sure
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Re: Re: Re: Not so sure
As an example, when I was a junior undergraduate student, I had a class called "Computer and Society" which studied the impact of computers (and technology as a whole) on society, particularly the professional world. We were talking one day about how technology changed the way people were managed. Our professor gave us a situation to play out in our heads.
The situation was that we were the sole programmer on a project whose customer was a bank. The customer, after getting a demonstration was very happy with the work, and would be getting delivery of the code in the next week. Before delivery of the project, we were fired as the company no longer needed us. The question then posed was, "what would be your reaction in this situation?" Most of the class didn't think much of it and just said they would look elsewhere. Our professor then told us about a guy in the same situation. What he did was introduced some bugs into the code after he left (they didn't revoke his clearance). The code was spaghetti code and only he knew what to do, and had the only backup at home. He ransomed the code back to the company back for a big payout.
Our class spent the whole hour and a half talking about this one situation. Everyone participated, and whenever I bring up the story, my friends still remember the lesson. The point of this long post is that, students don't need to be entertained to learn, they just need to be engaged in a way that'll make them interested in the subject matter.
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Re: Re: Not so sure
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Who cares?
Another classic example of idiots making decisions without understanding the problem. Take away the internet access... they'll start using it on their phones. The problem is square, boring profs who are most educated in that topic, but don't have crap all for teaching skills (no ed degree required).
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Even if the class is interesting enough, it's so easy to find something distracting or to chat with friends on the internet that people who actually would find their Professor's lecture worthwhile will stop paying attention. I know that I did.
Eventually *I* got fed up with not remembering what the Professor was saying that I just stopped bringing my laptop to class. Sure I couldn't look up a reference or look for extra material, but the Professor was usually going fast enough that I wouldn't be able to keep up with their lesson if I was screwing around trying to figure something out on my own; so I started asking more questions and taking better notes (on paper) so I could figure out stuff online, after class.
I know this is a bit of a Luddite-like take on things, but I really felt more involved in class when I didn't have the laptop there. I'm sure if I had a whole lot of self-discipline I could've had my laptop and eaten it too (to turn a phrase), but I don't, so just not bringing the damn thing ended up working better.
I don't really see what's wrong with that. Connectivity doesn't have to be a part of *everything* in modern life... just most things.
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Re: +1
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Prof likes it
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I wouldn't go so far as saying it hurts
Being able to grab the profs. notes during class so you can reference written material, check email (I get jumpy when I can't check it every 5-10 minuets), make arrangements with group members (my calendar is web-based), or if the guy is going on about something that's not directly related to me passing the upcoming test then I can do something else that I deem productive until it's time to listen again.
On the other hand your nieghbors and probably the prof. only want you to be looking at the teacher.
I went to Rose-Hulman and every student is required to have the school approved laptop in order to register for Freshman classes (program enacted in 1995). So my views on laptops with network access in the class are a little colored.
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Anyone complaining about student behavior should go sit in on some classes at the local university.
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put the lecture online...
as any pencil and paper gamer will tell you, getting any number of people in the same room at the same time is a real feat of logistics that shouldn't be wasted on one-way communication.
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Kids want degrees not learning
Just because these are graduate level coourses, doesn't mean the kids are anymore interested in the subject then other students.. they just want the degree.
Knowledge doesn't matter... finishing the requirements DOES I've verified this with students in a lot of different majors going to multiple universities. The fact is.. you don't have to learn MUCH to get a degree.. just get help from fellow students just enough to get a good grade...get thru your classes and get a degree. Paying attention is unnecessary So if requirements are more important then knowledge..why NOT surf the internet????
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Lectures kill learning
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Re: Lectures kill learning
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Attention in Class
At that level, the only purpose of an instructor is to relay information, and answer relevant questions. It's up to the student to pay attention and comprehend, if they aren't motivated enough on their own to do this they should fail.
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Stop Whining!!!
Yes, the internet is a tool and you could use it for looking up extra material. However most students DON'T limit it to this and the downfalls are the following:
- Some classes are actually boring, and you have to learn them anyways. It's not superprofessor's job to make every aspect of patent law interesting. Some of it's not. Deal.
- You have someone with a PhD who has spent hours creating and refining the lecture being given. They have spent hours pouring over primary literature on the subject and digesting it so that it makes a coherent lecture. If you have a question or want more information, ASK THEM! Asking in-class may allow the prof to get to make the format more interactive. Wikipedia is not ALWAYS right, because the true masters of the subject are busy trying to talk to you and not dinking around editing wiki articles. Also, asking allows the professor to figure out how to improve the lectures so that it is clearer in future years. An education degree is no match for experience, and feedback helps!
- Asking the prof things allows you to have a discussion and learn how to answer questions yourself. Maybe starting a debate in class by asking the right questions makes Steve over there voice a very valid point that makes everyone go hmmm.
- Building rapport with the professor is what really gets you that recommendation letter, outside opportunities, and a little leeway if something happens and you need help or an extension on a paper or something. Or research opportunities, scholarships etc. I had a prof tell me he chose me (a freshman bio major) for a fully funded (with stipend, airfare to a remote location, a 4 br apt, food etc) summer research project because of all the applicants, mainly of which were seniors, I was the only one who asked any questions, dumb or smart.
- Okay, so you're being good and just looking up information, but the kid in front is playing WoW and Susie behind him keeps getting distracted by all the moving lights.
- Yes, you still get good grades. Whoopee. You and the rest of the class have set the curve lower. The professor couldn't get past the boring stuff to get to that lecture they really wanted to do where it gets interesting.
So in short- you can look at it like your tuition doll ars are only good for crazy fast internet and that little paper at the end with that sophmoric why-do-we-have-to-learn-this attitude and connections OR you can look at it where you're paying people with knowledge to school you. Maybe your heavily-accented boring prof did their graduate work with the freaking master of the field and if if he likes you he'll share that connection and get you the exposure to lead to that fantastic job.
Maybe if you had taken the advantages you paid for you'd be writing for slashdot, cnet, G4 or CNN instead of whining on techdirt. :P
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Boring...
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Typical anti-authoritarian slant
Wrong. Not everything is entertaining. Lots of subjects are grinding hard work without a lot of "zazz." Lots of students have short attention spans, regard certain classes as "boring" or curriculum-requirement stuff they aren't interested in.
You're amazingly quick to place the blame, here.
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2)the environment has changed.
Maybe...
3) Culture has changed.
(DISCLAIMER: I'm 19.)
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Kids just don't care...
There have been boring profs for as long as there have been universities, I'm sure. Having to put up with that boredom is nothing new to students; it's just a new challenge that you have to overcome, and not just give up and run off to have fun on the net instead.
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Lectures, not the internet is the problem
Another thing that these educational leaders need to grasp is that today's college student grew up with the idea of multi-tasking. We sat in front of a TV to do our homework and one single mode of input seems deficient to us at this point. I for one am not satisfied to just listen to a lecture. Just because I keep hitting the stumble upon button does not mean I am not paying attention to the lecture- just paying attention to the lecture AND using stumble upon.
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Lectures, not the internet is the problem
Another thing that these educational leaders need to grasp is that today's college student grew up with the idea of multi-tasking. We sat in front of a TV to do our homework and one single mode of input seems deficient to us at this point. I for one am not satisfied to just listen to a lecture. Just because I keep hitting the stumble upon button does not mean I am not paying attention to the lecture- just paying attention to the lecture AND using stumble upon.
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Now, if the instructors or the school see the need to cut off internet access in order to maintain order in the classroom, that's completely up to them. While the students may actually pay for the internet service somewhere in their tuition, the school still owns the network, and they can decide exactly how and when the students can access it, and what content be accessed by it. If internet content is not required for the class, they have every right to disable it during class. It doesn't matter what the advantages or disadvantages are, it's still their right, because they own the network.
That being said, the internet can indeed be a valuable learning tool, if used properly. If the schools were to embrace the concept, they could potentially enhance the learning experience to the point of getting students more interested in the topics at hand. But ultimately, it's not necessary, and instructors have plenty of other methods at their disposal for keeping things lively. Hands-on activities are always better than dull lectures, I can tell you that for sure.
Additionally, if you cut off internet access, you can be sure that the goof-offs will find something else to play with and ignore the class. That goes right back to responsibility on the student's part. If they are goofing off and don't pass, that's their fault. And if they are disrupting the class by doing so, the instructor has the right to remove them from the premises for the benefit of the other students who are trying to learn. That in turn goes back to the responsibility of the instructor to maintain a positive learning atmosphere. Too many people these days expect technology to solve all their management problems, and it simply isn't the answer. Technology is a tool, not a law enforcement agency.
The big picture here is basically that more and more people, especially young adults, are being taught by society that they don't have to take responsibility for their own actions. Too many kids see college as a time to just go wild and party and do whatever they feel like, only to find out later that they would have been better off taking a little responsibility for themselves. Too many good colleges and universities have become nothing more than party houses, and it sickens me to think of what is going on out there these days.
Oh, and if you think I'm an old fogey venting on how things used to be, think again. I just turned 25 today. I graduated with a 2-year AAS degree and 4.0 GPA from a state technical college, and I'm working a steady full-time job doing what I enjoy doing, which I have held for 3 years now. I have never had an alcoholic beverage or smoked any tobacco, a fact which I'm proud of, because I believe that stuff can mess with your head, and probably plays a large part in the "dumbing down" of our society. I believe in taking responsibility for my own well being, and am doing quite well for myself at the moment because of it. And that doesn't mean I don't know how to get out and have fun with family and friends either. I just prefer clean fun, as opposed to wild parties and such that lead to things many people later regret. Anyway, I'm done ranting now. Kudos to you if you're still this comment. I'm glad you took the time to hear my opinion.
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Don't Blame the Professors!
Would you do the same thing at a group meeting at work just because you thought the manager was boring?
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Re: Don't Blame the Professors!
My response to the group meeting question: the phenomenon is not limited to the classroom. I work full time in a corporate environment while taking courses in a part time master's degree program. I've seen plenty of both good and bad use of laptops in the classroom. And I've seen plenty of good and bad use of blackberries and other devices in the corporate meeting room.
I have been in classes where a professor's question to the class is met with silent response, largely due to mass immersion in reading emails, carrying on IM sessions, checking portfolios, or even watching basketball playoffs.
The point here is not whether professors can deal with students not paying attention; the real issue is that students short change each other by not participating in a community of engaged learners. If students cannot adopt norms on their own that promote learning in class, then maybe the University needs to enforce them by fiat.
That said, turning off Internet access is extreme. It overlooks the real problem (behavior) in targeting the false problem (technology).
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Turning Off Internet In The Classroom
I have 30 years of elementary school experience and the primary issues have always been:
1)determine what the children will learn
2)determine how that will happen
3)plan for the success of all students
4)involve the greatest number of learning styles possible
5)be flexible
6)and if someone is f**king off, check to see whether they're learning
My experience is that upper level educators 7-16 can do 1 and 2 exceedingly well and the rest not at all. Consequently most courses suck. That said, a computer in a fourth grade would have fifteen kids around it in a heartbeat.
Garibaldi
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Boring classes
In general though, I hate how tests/quizes are made. From kindergarden to 8th grade i was a C/D student and sucked at math. But once less emphesis was put on english and basic math (memorization and speed drills), I went up to a A-/B+ because I did well in Algebra/Science.
Turns out I can't memorize raw facts worth crap, but I can understand and apply complex ideas/concepts. I failed 5 different history classes in college before I finally passed a retake with a C-. I never missed more than 3 history classes in a given semester and spent about 4-8 hours/week studying. Then there's my major. I almost never studied for any of my classes ~15-30 minutes/week and I got almost all A/Bs.
In a nut shell, my whole life I was told that I would never be anything because my grades where so bad and that I needed to try harder. Now I'm a DB programmer for a company that supplies products and services for over 73,000 schools in North America. TY education system for all positive feed back of my potential
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It's honestly a double standard. Professors want us to attend lecture, take notes, read the book, read supplementary materials, etc., and become experts in everything they're saying. Then, 4 times a semester they want it regurgitated verbatim. If you miss something, well too bad. Some professors complain that we lack depth in our thinking, but they want us to repeat word for word what they've said. They punish us if we don't go to class, but don't give us anything educationally when we do go to class.
Then there are the actual teachers. The professors who teach well and get the subject across in a straightforward manner. Notice I didn't say entertaining. No one said it had to be entertaining, but don't waste my time. I can read your slides, I can read my book. Either add something to it, let me go, or let me check my e-mail.
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But I'm Multitasking!
There is a virtue in being able to focus, a quality of engaging your whole brain in comprehending something that you would ordinarily consider "too difficult". Even before computers study advice always included: Find yourself a quiet, well-lit, comfortable area free of distractions. Eat well, sleep well, and get regular exercise. It was never (read this book on treadmill, eat while doing math and do your homework with the radio on or on the bus or while looking through catelogs or while reading the newspaper.
Multitasking does not mean you lose the ability to prioritize or focus. Multitasking does not mean surrounded by distractions.
Think of it like this, with a fun example. Say instead of sitting in a "boring" lecture, you're at a movie. What if someone sitting in front of you was dragged there by their boyfriend and pulled out a laptop. How about if the person next to you pulled out a book with a booklight. What if the person waay in the back's phone rings two times? Why don't you want to surf the net while you're there? Maybe you could be looking up behind the scenes info on the actors, plot? Maybe it's a sequel and you want to look up what happened to character X at the end of the last one because you can't remember? Certainly remembering those things would increase your enjoyment of the movie, right? Getting all the information?
Oh, is THAT rude to other paying people around you? IS the movie better when you can focus on it and be absorbed into the cinematic experience? Pictures look clearer when smaller, why is the big screen so much better? You don't even want to be distracted by the black around it?
What if you're giving a presentation to the class about some work you've done, and the teacher doesn't pay attention? Would you like them to grade your papers while watching TV? Then give you a lower grade because it was boring? Maybe they don't WANT to bother working harder on lectures to kids who just sit thereon youtube? They do have papers to write, projects to do, and other professional development aspects to their job that you never see. Maybe those are more fun?
Would you like to try to hold the attention of small children when there's a puppy in the room?
I'm 25, have had computers since I was 9, and had a laptop all through college and part of high school.
I used to be a horrible student. Always multitasking. Did my homework while watching TV, surfing the net, eating, on the bus, while talking to friends on the phone, etc. I got A's because I was smart and managed. I doodled in class, daydreamed, read, and otherwise was allowed to do whatever because I got A's.
I did well in college too. Then I had a bunch of exams on one day and I panicked. Essay tests! I locked myself in a study room at my dorm and worked on refining my notes, studying, practicing explaining. All stuff I hadn't understood that well in class. I focused, and I found I not only finished studying in half the time I thought I would need, I understood it better, was more confident, and had interesting questions to ask the professors. I did ask, and became a favorite student of many of them, who volunteered recommendation letters, introductions, and general opportunities. I decided to continue that focus and began to not only like my classes, I loved them. I had a teacher apologize TO ME that the class was boring because he couldn't get the other students to engage and get to the really interesting stuff. I had him previously for another class and was sorely disappointed things went that way, as he was awesome. I found I changed from a reluctant, quiet A student who managed, to an engaging A student who proceeded to top every curve and often become exempt from finals, provided opportunites, win extra scholarships and find a career path that really engages me.
Yes, I was good at multitasking, but when I took moments to use my whole intellect to focus on something, I was exceptional. When you focus, your brain just starts to absorb and enjoy. No, not everyone is like that, but just as not everyone is going to like the movie, nobody's going to like it if there's distractions abounding. If a movie's good and your phone vibes, do you read the message or see who's calling? No, you mash buttons to shut it up and look afterwards. If you're really into a subject, the same thing happens. And your professor is guiding you into that subject material and giving you that opportunity so the least you can do is sit and listen for an hour or so to find out.
Multitasking reduces passion. A winetaster closes his eyes, you don't text during sex, you turn down the lights during a movie, and you don't play video games while watching youtube.
Multitasking is to make you MORE productive than otherwise. Your computer multitasks so that you can check email while writing a paper without saving, closing, opening, closing, opening, continuing. You can focus on two or more things that require less attention at the same time. But your computer runs the newest games best when you don't leave a movie playing or 100 windows open or the like.
So do you.
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Boring lectures train you for the real world, except in the real world it's much much worse, especially when your boss pulls you into a four hour long meeting on whatever worthless biz-speak idea is floating around these days. And if you are caught mucking around on the internet during the meeting, you WILL be shown the door.
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The "real world"?
Some people want to say that some material is just boring. Well, why would anyone bother to teach something that was not interesting. I've had classes on interesting subjects where I couldn't even stay awake in class, and I've had classes on "boring" subjects where I get excited to go to class. Profs who think that what they have to say is important just because they are profs are severely mistaken.
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Re: The "real world"?
Everyone that is young thinks they will change the world. Remember, the boomers were at woodstock, getting high, experiencing free love, and dreaming of the day when they were in power and make the world a wonderfully peaceful place and buy the world a damn coke.
Cut to today. All those boomers are now in power and nothing has changed. Not one thing. In fact, they are probably a little bit worse than back in the 60's (for America anyways).
Every new generation thinks they will grow up and change the world (except gen x; we were pretty much bitter and cynical from the get go). So don't worry about us old dudes, dream your dreams, for one day, you too will graduate college and your eyes will be opened. And the only reason you don't care about seniority is because it doesn't benefit you. Come back here in 20 years and let us know how you think.
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Re: The "real world"?
"We don't care about fitting in"
Seriously? If I don't see one more moppy-headed IPod-wearing messenger bag-slinging facebook account walk past me as I sit here in a top10 University library, I will personally kiss your feet.
No youth cares about seniority. Someone who's been in the biz 20 years SURELY has no clue compared to your "fresh ideas".
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I don't think it's a big deal either way, some classes I can't reach the network, so I don't. some I can, so I do. I determine what grades I get in the end.
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Focus
However, I also engage in a healthy amount of multi-tasking like everyone else. I run several windows at once and read comics while attempting to be productive and listening to music. It gives me the ability to detune most of my senses and focus when I need to. When I row, I put music on. Truth be told, I hear the first ten to twenty seconds of each song and completely tune it out - I have more important things to focus on at the moment.
Working in a theatre, both skills come in handy. Sometimes I need to be able to focus explicitly on one task at a time, but other times I need to be able to be aware of every thing going on around me as my safety could be threatened by falling heavy objects.
Everything in moderation.
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Best student are teachers
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is not a solution...
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