If You Carry A Blackberry And Are Paid Hourly, Do You Count Checking Your Email As Time Working?

from the does-checking-your-Blackberry-count-as-work dept

Tue, Jun 24th 2008 12:05pm — Mike Masnick

We've talked about the question of the work-life balance plenty of times, as people begin to recognize that "life" (such as personal surfing) is showing up in the office and "work" (such as checking your email) is showing up at home. However, that's leading to a few problems with some legacy systems. For example, what does it mean for workers who are paid on an hourly basis, with the potential for overtime? That problem recently came up when ABC News tried to make it clear to new staff writers that they couldn't count time checking their Blackberries as being work hours for overtime purposes. While the two sides settled this issue internally, it does raise plenty of questions for other hourly workers who are still expected to "check-in" from time to time outside of the office. This might not be a huge problem, as many jobs that require a Blackberry tend not to be paid hourly -- but these types of issues are likely to keep showing up as workplaces struggle to deal with changing work and lifestyles.

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Filed Under: blackberries, checking email, email, hourly workers, overtime
Companies: abc

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PR NY, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:09pm

Getting an Email Notification
One compromise might be when your Blackberry notifies you of an email - thus prompting you check and to answer if it is required

This would be important for Lawyers who would know WHICH client to charge it to
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Ed Kless, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:15pm

Another option
Best Buy has made incredible strides in this area by implementing a ROWE (results only work environment). In the end hours (for exempt or non-exempt employees) does not matter, results do.

For futher info, check out the book Why Work Sucks and How to Fix It or visit www.culturerx.com.
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Justin Ried, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:18pm

Balance and reason
Every job is unique, and it's a bit silly for employers (and employees) to be so black and white on the issue. With a salaried position comes the highs and lows of business activity, with the assumption that compensation corresponds to some sort of median level of productivity. Some days are busy, others aren't. Some days you check email at home, other days you don't.

It'll take a while for the general sentiment catch up with always on, always available technology - but the key remains to be reasonable.
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The Red Monkey, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:22pm

Give up
I keep a black berry and work a salaried position but I am not expected to be "on call" and available after business hours but I keep myself available since I deal with Game Wardens. If I worked hourly I would shut off the Black Berry after work if I was not getting compensated.
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Joe, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:23pm

Personally, simply checking the blackberry from home does not indicate overtime. If however, I am notified of something that does require my time and attention, then yes, I will put down overtime.

To put an inverse on this: Should you be considered at break if you happen to check your personal email while at work?
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- mobiGeek, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:30pm
  
  Re:
  Or is it a break if you
  - grab a coffee
  - go to the bathroom
  - idle chatter around the water cooler
  - not focus 100% on work while at your desk
  - ignore an incoming phone call
  - etc...
  Those who look to squeeze every penny out of the workplace had better make sure the workplace doesn't look to do the same...
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  - DigitalAngel, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:55pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Exactly my thoughts. Sometimes I work really crazy hours. Other days, well, I'm posting now arn't I? It evens out in the long run.
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  - Wolferz (profile), 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:24pm
    
    Re: Re:
    I think, by law, things like going to the bathroom or stopping to get a drink of water are protected and the employer can not penalize you in any way regarding them.
    
    Idle chatter around the water cooler or getting coffee are generally O.K. but, if paid hourly, you should clock out for 15 minutes or, if salaried, you should limit how often you do this and return to work promptly upon completing your drink. Not focusing on your work depends on the circumstances... If you're not focusing on your work because your wife called to let you know she can't pick the kid up from school and your mentally shuffling your schedule around in your mind to find time to pick him up yourself, that is acceptable. If you're not focusing on your work cause you're day dreaming about golf with Tiger Woods later or playing solitaire on your computer, then that isn't. Ignoring a phone call is never ok unless its clear that you are not expected to be working right then (like after office hours and when not on-call).
    
    Technically it can be said that checking personal email at work technically does not profit the company and should not be done on company time. However, in the long run allowing employees to check their personal email, and other small trivial personal tasks, when kept in moderation, CAN improve company profits. Forcing employees to put their noses to the grind stone and never stop except when they take their one or two clearly defined breaks each day will serve only to wear them out and leave them incapable of being as productive as they otherwise would be. Not all people are capable of switching into one-track-mind mode. Those people need a little bit of distraction here and there just to clear their head. That way when they return to the work at hand they can focus and do it right.
    
    Taking long breaks to call up your drinking buddies and shoot the breeze, answering all of the 15 chain emails from family and friends, updating your myspace profile, or otherwise blatantly goofing off in a manner that takes significant amounts of time away from your work is not appropriate. However, taking just a moment to see if that important email from your ebay purchase has been answered yet (but not necessarily acting on the results) shouldn't be a big deal and can be beneficial in the long run.
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mobiGeek, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:25pm

Sorry to be a pain...
...but it is BlackBerry, not Blackberry.
Nope, not affiliated (at least not directly).
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- A. L. Flanagan, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:27pm
  
  Re: Sorry to be a pain...
  I, personally, am so tired of these words with capitals in the midDle, that I'm about ready to reFuse to uSe them at aLl.
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  - Mischa, 24 Jun 2008 @ 6:15pm
    
    Re: Re: Sorry to be a pain...
    Personally, I like it. Of course maybe that's because I do it all the time myself. :-)
    ConnectToSession()
    MoveToNextRequest()
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some old guy, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:45pm

WHOA THERE!
Noone that works hourly should ever, EVER take their blackberry home with them, unless you have prviously agreed on a telecommuting schedule.
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- mobiGeek, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:06pm
  
  Re: WHOA THERE!
  That's a pretty absolute statement.
  What about the fact that friends of mine email and/or call me on my "work" BlackBerry?
  My work isn't just something I spend 8 hours a day doing and then I shut off at night. Just the same as my life doesn't shut down during the 8 hours I spend in the office.
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  - sonofdot, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:10pm
    
    Re: Re: WHOA THERE!
    . . . my life doesn't shut down during the 8 hours I spend in the office.
    
    Perhaps, but many employers would rather that it did.
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  - John Wilson, 25 Jun 2008 @ 9:24am
    
    Re: Re: WHOA THERE!
    I'm paid hourly and you're damned right I'll bill for OT if the BlackBerry bleeps after the end of my day for an email that I have to respond to and requires that I work.
    
    It's called overtime for a reason, remember.
    
    While my private life doesn't cease between 8am and 4pm there are a grand total of three people outside of my workplace that know my corporate email address and understand that it's for emergency use only.
    
    Kinda the same as what I do with my company cell number, which also rings in on the BlackBerry.
    
    I've found over the years that sanity is best protected and improved by the following:
    
    1) I have a work life.
    2) I have a real life.
    3) They are NOT the same and in the end #2 is what's really important and makes it possible to do #1 well.
    
    Friends can and do call my home number during the day and leave messages. It doesn't seem to be any problem for them.
    
    Anyway, it's a real pain trying to talk to a friend or family while I do what I do where it's required that I concentrate on the task at hand.
    
    ttfn
    
    John
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  - HR, 27 Jun 2008 @ 12:09pm
    
    Re: Re: WHOA THERE!
    If your friends are calling your BlackBerry or emailing you then you are not working. If an hourly employee is using their BB for work purposes and isnt logging that time, the employer can be in trouble if the Department Of Labor comes in and audits them. It takes one complaint to issue an ivestigation by the DOL. All they have to do is request Email records and they will know what is work and what is not. Anything work related needs to be compensated to a hourly employee. That is just the FLSA law.
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- another old guy, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:10pm
  
  Think like that
  And you will stay an hourly worker. Give a little and get some in return, or better yet let me get the promotion for being a "go getter!"
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  - sonofdot, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:59pm
    
    Re: Think like that
    And you'll get it in the end, almost guaranteed. Every company on Earth is looking for that hourly worker who will work hours and hours for the company for free. Then they'll make you a salaried employee, and expect even more of the same. Enjoy your promotion, fool.
    
    Here are some words to live by:
    
    Don't ever work for free.
    Don't accept promises or handshakes -- get it in writing.
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  - John Wilson, 25 Jun 2008 @ 9:29am
    
    Re: Think like that
    "And you will stay an hourly worker. Give a little and get some in return, or better yet let me get the promotion for being a "go getter!""
    
    As that would mean a cut in base pay, a loss of responsibility and influence I think I'll pass.
    
    If I wanted to push paper I'd be salaried.
    
    I don't. I'm a technician, craftsman and tradesman all wrapped into one and I am damn good at what I do.
    
    Anyway, there's much less stress in turning it all off at the end of the day and having a real life.
    
    ttfn
    
    John
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    - another old guy (the same one), 25 Jun 2008 @ 1:15pm
      
      Re: Re: Think like that
      some promotions are good and some are not but I enjoy what I do and it isn't a paper pusher. But hey to each his own and Ill still take the promotion if its a good deal, if you dont want it you dont have to take one.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Lickity Split, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:16pm
  
  Re: WHOA THERE!
  and no one that works hourly should ever EVER check personal email while on the clock or post to stupid blog forums for that matter...
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- Rose M. Welch, 24 Jun 2008 @ 4:43pm
  
  Re: WHOA THERE!
  That's silly, personal use if the company funded telephone is one of the perks at my husband's job. Saves us forty-plus dollars per month for a cell phone.
  
  So...
  
  If he receives a work e-mail or telephone call during non-business hours, and sometimes he does, it's billable time at overtime rates. This ensures that he's not bugged by idiots who are ZOMFG!!!!!!!11eleventyone!!!11!!!! important without good reason.
  
  If he receives a personal call during working hours, it would not result in any sort of sanction of his paycheck, provided that it doesn't interfere with his work. For instance, he calls me quite a bit when he's driving to long-distance locales.
  
  HOWEVER, these rules were set when he took the job. His last job was not as complacent about personal calls during business hours but did NOT provide the BlackBerry, although one was required. Once again, those rules were set when he took the job.
  
  So basically, I don't believe there is, or should be, a set rule throughout the business world. I think it should be something discussed at the beginning of the employment relationship, because circumstances differ entirely too much.
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Chatter, 24 Jun 2008 @ 12:51pm

Should I get paid for responding to this blog?
As an hourly consultant, I had to accurately track my billing to clients, ensuring that I didn't charge them for things like reading Techdirt or checking my email for another client. If you are required to have a BlackBerry for work, you should negotiate with your employer what is considered to be work: Looking at an email for 30 seconds, or the 15 min to respond to the email? Also, in my experience, jobs that require the 24x7 availability have a bit more salary than one that let's you leave at 5pm without ever having to think about work till the next morning.
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Doug, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:05pm

FLSA - Fair Labor Standards Act
The article is speaking to the Fair Labor Standards Act which is what governs how US companies have to pay employees (or at least meet the federal standards since it can vary by state). The definition of the law is better explained by lawyers, which I am not, but basically if you are a non-exempt (hourly) employee and working on your BlackBerry at home then it's technically considered work and thus should be paid and also count toward overtime. Of course your Company may have a policy dictating that you not do this....
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Matt (profile), 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:19pm

no point in this argument
I'm salaried and even when I was hourly (temp) at the same location I still occasionally posted to techdirt. So what?

It's been proven before that people's minds wander sometimes and you need to step out for a minute to regain full productivity. If a company is nitpicking this far then they have way more problems than nickle and dime-ing their employees.
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Tom The Toe, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:23pm

I'm hourly
The company provides me with a phone that will text me when there is a server problem. All time is counted in 15 minute increments to keep accounting practicle. If I work 10 minutes it's counted as 15 if I work 20 it's counted as 1/2 an hour etc. I'm not considered on call but I always have remote access to the data center and am expected to respond. As part of the give and take I have alot of freedom when it comes to actual time off (I do shut off my access when on vacation). And no one is looking over my shoulder when I'm doing my job. I'm also allowed to work a flexable schedule as I see fit, as long as I do 40hrs. If I want to work 4 hours in the morning then 4 hrs at nitght that's fine. If I have 40 in by friday I take the day off or I can do the overtime if I wish.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:31pm

Everybody in my department has a Blackberry now except for me. I am the only hourly employee, where everyone else is on salary. I'm told that HR won't allow me to have one because if I check email after hours, supposedly they'd have to pay overtime, and so on and so forth. I think that's complete BS, and feel cheated and demeaned because I'm the only one left out. With the type of work I could do, I could easily be on salary, but am not simply because my position is considered entry-level.

I personally don't have a problem putting in a little extra time and not reporting or getting paid for it, as long as it's not something I'm forced to do. If I check my work email on my own time, which I can already do via our VPN system, that's my business, and I wouldn't dream of reporting it for overtime. As I said, I can already check my work email through remote access, even from my iPod Touch, and I have been issued a company cell phone for work use. How is having a Blackberry any different? The bottom line is that it's stupid black & white policies dictated by an HR department that doesn't have a clue.
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Chronno S. Trigger, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:45pm

I have a question
Are these people being required to check their E-Mail or is it just their choice?

If my boss said that I must keep up with my E-Mail at home than I'm going to expect some compensation, but I don't expect overtime pay just because I decide to look ahead. I also wouldn't expect overtime pay for something as simple as checking E-Mail just relaxed beginning and end times.
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- some old guy, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:01pm
  
  Re: I have a question
  Your question is an excellent one. You see, the reason all these companies buy their employees crack berries is because of all the free labor they get for their 300$ purchase. Don't ever EVER donate labor to your employer. It sets an extremely bad precendent.
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dILLY bINGY, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:48pm

lmao
I get paid daily and hourly.... and I find myself here on Techdirt...actually I find myself all over the net.

I DEFINATELY COUNT THIS TIME. I ALSO TEXT, EMAIL, SNEAK IN A FEW PHONE CALLS (I'M NOT REALLY REALLY SNEAKING.)

I deserve it. CORPORATE SUCKS!
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- Kilgore Trout, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:55pm
  
  Re: lmao
  "I deserve it. CORPORATE SUCKS!"
  
  And this, my friends, is why all our technical jobs are being sent to India.
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  - SisterofDot, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:25pm
    
    Re: Re: lmao
    You're full of crap Mr. Kilgore Fish.
    
    Outsourceing is about corporate GREED.
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Tom The Toe, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:51pm

Re:
"The bottom line is that it's stupid black & white policies dictated by an HR department that doesn't have a clue." The policies are dictated by the state and federal goverment and the company has to protect itself from fines and sanctions for non compliance. To err on the side of good policy they should have you report all company related off work time including time you are connected via VPN. Actually the network admin should be reporting time you are connected just to protect the company. Non compliance could cost them state and federal contracts.
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DS78, 24 Jun 2008 @ 1:56pm

Ugh.. BlackBerrys
I'm one of the few salaried people at my company that refuses to take a BlackBerry (one other guy did as well). I know exactly how much e-mail I get when I'm "off" (which is never). I don't want the responsibility of having to respond to insignificant little issues in the middle of the night.

In case of emergency they can call on my freebie phone phone they procured from a Cracker Jack box, just to spite me not taking a BlackBerry.

Anyways, kudos to the hourly brave who bill out their BlackBerry time at home. It's exactly what I'd do...

DS
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TriZz, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:00pm

As an hourly employee w/blackberry...
...I can tell you that checking my email does not get me any extra hours. They pay for the phone, I use it mostly for personal use, so checking emails is how I consider pay for the use of the phone.

It's better than getting a monthly bill.
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Muad'Dib, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:14pm

Overtime
It's interesting that only one person saw that this is a state regulatory issue, not just some bored HR folks trying to find ways to torment hapless tech-workers. The HR laws are pretty clear, actually, that companies must pay for time worked, unless there is a salaried contract in place. On the other side of this fun, if you're using the BB for personal use, then, technically, it's a taxable benefit. It's never simple, eh?
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- mobiGeek, 24 Jun 2008 @ 8:48pm
  
  Re: Overtime
  I don't see that others missed this fact. No one has come out to say what their stance is on this regulation, but most comments are of the "it depends" standpoint.
  And it does depend. Regulations don't answer the questions raised by this thread. For example, if work gives me a BlackBerry that I check outside of work hours but I've not been mandated to do it, should I submit that time?
  I don't actually see why there needs to be any regulation around this issue. Either I'm working and the law requires me to be compensated, or I'm not and I'm "voluntarily" checking those emails.
  If I take a manual home and read it on my own time, should I be compensated? Answer: it depends.
  If I log in to my email from my home PC and check the same emails my coworkers get on the BlackBerries? Answer: it depends.
  If I attend a work-relevant convention over the weekend, should I be compensated for my time? Answer: it depends.
  I take great joy in my profession. I do work outside of work because I like it, I do it because it takes the pressure off (well, okay, brings it down to a nearly survivable level) when I'm in the office, I do it because it allows me the flexibility to do other things during standard "work hours" (something I rarely take advantage of, but do when I want to).
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:18pm

The bottom line is that if work is paying for the blackberry, and they do not require you to check it after hours, then no, you should not be paid for it. If they require you to check it then, yes, pay up.
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Me, myself and email, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:22pm

Paid
If I got paid for the time I spent off hours monitoring email and critical systems... Well let just say I would have that new M3 already.

But, I can deal. I mean I would rather know what the hell is going on and be able to correct any mission critical issues asap. So I would rather check email for free then walk into an office building that has ground to a halt because the system is down.
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monk, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:31pm

I like having a blackberry! I am salaried and in sales (commission). I look at my blackberry as a tool that gives me the freedom to be away from my desk, work from home, and take care of small issues when I want to, not when I am at my desk. It takes me less then a minute (normally) to read and reply to an email. I am sure I waste a lot more then that during the day surfing the web and bs-ing with co-workers.
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- sonofdot, 24 Jun 2008 @ 2:39pm
  
  Re:
  That works for commissioned sales. I'd be more apt to like a Blackberry, too, in your situation. But I'm in IT, and a Blackberry is just a way to tether me to work. When I can bring my XBox to work, then I'll take my Blackberry home.
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Meoip, 24 Jun 2008 @ 3:12pm

Charge
As an hourly with a blackberry I charge a flat fee not an hourly fee. I charge $1 per email checked and $3 per an easy typed response and $5 if I have to do anything other than hit respond and type. Since most after hour emails come from salaried employees within my company and they want answers soon. I started this plan and turned things in on an expense report once a week. After a brief discussion the company did pay for the plan and encouraged other employees to not send urgent emails after hour.
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HaroldMaude, 24 Jun 2008 @ 3:27pm

I work for a law firm hourly and take home my blackberry. The system we worked out is if you take more than 15 minutes working on something from home it's considered overtime.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2008 @ 6:53pm

My understanding of Federal labor law is that is it likely that not paying an hourly employee to do work for you is illegal.
Whether it's email or raking your yard.
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mike allen, 25 Jun 2008 @ 12:53am

as we
as we are in communications how or why would we stop our people from communicating with anyone.
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Ferin, 25 Jun 2008 @ 4:44am

Hell yeah
I actually work for a corporation through a contracting copany, and a similar situation came up. I was told in no uncertain terms that any time spent on work was time billed as work.
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ted, 20 Nov 2009 @ 11:21am

RE: IMAO
BlackBerries are a tool for Remote Access of data, the internet, and yes- calls. At home, your boss isn't standing over your easy chair demanding you respond to each email.
But if things go terribly wrong, I would hope you would care enough about your work and company to want to be in the know.
As far as "deserving" anything, I don't think anyone- companies or their employees- deserve anything less or more than the law, whatever is in the employment contract, and fair treatment. Getting paid to update Facebook statuses is not fair treatment.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2013 @ 8:58pm

I am an Hourly Employee and for the past 4 years some of my co-workers have been calling me on my personal cell phone,sometimes 2-3 hours prior to my start time or off shifts. I have never had an agreement of any kind with the company to accept phone calls prior to my start time. I have alway meant to ask my HR department, but did not want to pose the question since I am not sure it this would cause my Supervisor to get in trouble since I always mentioned to her that I received calls at 5am and my scheduled time was 7:30am and she never said anything she made it seem like that was ok, like It was my responsibility. Are there any regulation to employers for hourly employees getting contacted at off- shifts or hours prior to their shift, is there any penalization.
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Steve, 27 Apr 2013 @ 8:47am

blackberry repair toronto
this debate is really a question for all who are working on hour basis. as per my opinion it should be counted, because a industry can not be affected by few minutes.

blackberry repair toronto
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