Like Clockwork: Question Raised About Techies Unionizing
from the yeah,-it's-not-gonna-happen dept
Pretty much every two years or so, the press suddenly starts asking if techies should unionize. We first saw such articles around 2000, then again in 2002. We must have missed the 2004 one, but there was yet another in 2006. And, now that it's 2008, we've got another one, asking if techies should unionize.It's all a bit silly. The reason for organizing labor is because the employers have unchecked power to set working conditions and wages -- meaning that there's not enough bargaining power by the employees as individuals. However, that's hardly the case in the tech industry, where there's tons of competition, and good tech employees have many options for where to work and under what conditions. It seems like all of the stories about unionizing seem to be planted by unions themselves looking to boost ranks, but without offering any serious reason why tech workers should even think about organizing.
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Filed Under: organized labor, techies, unions
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Unions so far seems to be about the power of the union leaders.
If there's a union and you're not part of the union (because it sucks), you're out of job...
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Yeah...THAT'S what IT needs...
8-P
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Re: Yeah...THAT'S what IT needs...
P.S. You're an ass, and probably a phb.
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Re: Re: Yeah...THAT'S what IT needs...
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Re: Re: Yeah...THAT'S what IT needs...
With Java being the first language taught at school java folks are dime a dozen nowadays
.Net is dime a dozen too
DOn't kid yourself, kid
the only safe IT employment today is inside the government or on some highly classified DOD projects
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Re: Re: Re: Yeah...THAT'S what IT needs...
It reminds me of C+
and that makes my balls do their "phantom limb" aching bit...
;P (unk)
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Re: Yeah...THAT'S what IT needs...
(I might be one of them...)
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I don't believe it's the unions - just fear
I'm a programmer now, but have been a web master, dba, sys admin, help desk and mail admin. Heck, there were times I've even done phone and network wiring to make ends meet. I generally get good reviews and don't see the idea of unionizing as being all that necessary. That being said, if I had a more difficult time getting a tech job and felt completely powerless in my current job, I can understand the desire to try to take "back" some control.
With tech, you have to remember that a lot of times, it's an all or nothing job. You either fix the problem, deliver the service, write the code or you don't. There is really never a middle ground like there might be for a sales group: we only met 85% of the goal. If you only do 85% of the work in most tech fields, the problem is still there, the service isn't delivered and the code isn't written. For a lot of people, that can be a very hard concept to accept.
Given the number of people in tech these days and how easily it is for a small minority to make it seem like they're the majority, this doesn't surprise me a bit. I have a difficult time it's any potential union stirring this up as much as it is the "whiners and complainers" that I see dragging down the name of good techs all the time.
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Unions don't have to be all bad
Then of course, once the company realizes those were actually important positions, they end up coming back with different cheaper people.
A union functioning correctly could help with that. I'm not looking for a free ride, but these days you need someone with clout on your side to protect you from the madness that Corporate America has become.
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a more perfect union...
You all seem to foget what type of national (union) spirit made this country what it was. The slackers are the people who would rather sacrifice a united state then to sacrifice a couple of dollars to the common good.
We are all tasked with making a "more perfect union" not the politcal parties so dont rant to me about one or the other.
A union for the general population of people that are graduating today from technology type fields would be the best thing for this country. Obviously the elite in the field can always set their own rates...AS IS IN EVERY OTHER TRADE that is unionized.
Actually if you think about it the majority of the "network engineers" around today are nothing more then plumbers who keep S**T flowing... why dont they deserve an entity that looks out for them as a whole like a union would. I know it seems to be an antiquated form of organization for todays economy, but if a management structure can be selected by employees, unions make sure everyone feels that they have been treated fairly in all negotiations.
Even to go as far as asking companies to commit to certain contract as a group rather then by the person. This will most certainly make for better aggregate wages amoung union members.
My father spent more then 25 years in a union and is now happily retired in a nice area and can enjoy the rest of his life. Why cant I have the same type of benefits for 1/4 of my life spent at a particular trade.
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Eh?
In the UK there are general unions that anyone can join, including techs. Unions are a good thing and this article just seems to be negative along with the early comments.
Why SHOULDN'T techies be in a union??
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- they take your money (year subscription fee)
- they taxes you on your projects (licenses for various reasons)
- they do have some sort of cheap Med Care solution but it covers cloth(sp?) to nothing.
- they lock you out of your field if your not a member of the union (or if you haven't paid all your dues).
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not so true in the UK
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Just a little Email from a friend at Microsoft
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It would do 2 things (at least in their minds):
1) Get rid of the most incompetent workers. The field is still full of self-improvised "experts", "consultants" and "gurus", who cause a lot of projects to fail;
2) Force employers to listen to techies, instead of hare-brained PHBs, for techincal decisions. There are rules and regulations to design a bridge, the same should apply to IT systems.
That should insure a better level of quality in IT projects.
I personally think such entities have more downsides that upsides (walled-garden mentality, hive-mind, upward-spiraling demands, etc...), but I just wanted to throw this out there.
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Strength in numbers
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FLSA Exemption
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Unions could be a good thing too
I've been in the IT industry since 1979, and if pre-2k you asked me if the union would be a good thing I would have agreed that it wasnt.
Today on the other hand some kind of union or something is needed. I've watched my billing rate climb from $19/hr to $125/hr and then begin dropping to below $50/hr. I've watched time and time again Programmers being fired in favor of outsourcing to some country that not only does not understand US business practiced, but would rather blow themselves up to kill us rather than live side by side with us.
Just like all jobs in this country about the only IT jobs not getting outsourced are the lower paying IT jobs such as Network Admins, Desktop Support etc...
SOMETHING needs to be done to help keep US jobs in the US, and about the only thing with the power to do this is the Unions.
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Why not a guild?
Having been in ALPA(Air Line Pilot's Association) in a previous career, it would seem that we could only benefit from collective barganing. This could also alleviate some of the unfair labor practices that are rampant throughout the IT feild.
Besides, if there were a nationwide strike of all techs, everywhere, think of the collective sh#tfit the PHB's would have.
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The problem is variance in productivity
So when we bring in a union, these bottom performers and these top performers all get paid the same wage, a wage far, far below what the top performers would otherwise receive. So these top performers end up leaving the union and striking out on their own. The union is left "bottom heavy". The overall productivity of the union workers drops, which puts downward pressure on wages. The above average start to dessert to follow the top-performers. This further reduces productivity. The cycle continues.
After this cycle has gone on for a bit, the union is left with only the below average. There is no reason for employers to deal with the union, in fact the union offers them nothing of value so any employer with half a brain will stay away.
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Another paid drivel from Mikey
How can a person like Mikey who never worked in tech can be taken seriously ?
Just tell this BS to somebody who lost his tech job to (cheap) overseas competition - he'll kick your ass
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Re: Another paid drivel from Mikey
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Re: Re: Another paid drivel from Mikey
This shitty blog for me is like a red coat for a bull - it's so f****** stupid I can't stand its presence
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Stupid techdirt lemmings
Eat your daily dose of outmeal with cookies and another portion of corporate propaganda from the Master of Demagogy
- Mike Masnick
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Re: Stupid techdirt lemmings
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Re: Re: Stupid techdirt lemmings
I am largely a product of superior Soviet educational system
American education is a castrated version of what real education should be
Have a nice day punky
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Re: Re: Re: Stupid techdirt lemmings
Ok...so the Soviet educational system failed to teach you the proper definition of words. You're splitting hairs... Either way, the posts don't constitute propaganda, and Mike doesn't meet the requirements for being a demagogue either. So you're lying once again.
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I can see why
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I like not working hard
It's my god given right to sit on my ass and get paid large sums. If I can't get rich doing nothing in tech, then I may be forced to go into music instead.
I can't be expected to stay current or invest in myself because I am too arrogant and lazy.
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Collective Bargaining
I live in a heavily unionized part of the country and it's painted my overall opinion of unions negatively. I realize that's my personal bias, but to me, I see three common things that seem to follow unionization:
(1) Employees begin to see management as "The Enemy", and Management views unionized employees as lazy.
(2) Seniority trumps virtually everything else. Since when does how long you're at a company equate to how good of an employee you are? That circumstance would benefit me greatly in my current position, but I'm already being treated well because what I produce is very valued. This is the perfect way to encourage new employees to be lazy and keep old employees working just hard enough to remain in their protected positions.
(3) Collectively, between Management and The Union, the customer gets lost: The guy who buys the car, the parent's who's children attend the school (or, perhaps, the property owners who pay the taxes), the kid who attends college (again, tax payers as well) don't factor into the job that's being done. This means lousy schools, lousy cars, and a griping group of people who can't seem to figure out where it all went wrong.
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Unions No Way
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