Is A Conviction Constitutional If It's Based On Evidence From An Unconstitutional Search?
from the buttle-or-tuttle? dept
In a case where the legal implications should thrill any fans of Terry Gilliam's movie classic Brazil, the Supreme Court is set to examine if it's constitutional to convict someone, based on evidence that was only collected due to bad data in a government database. There's no question that a search of someone due to bad data in a database is unconstitutional, but the question is whether or not what's found in that search can then be used to charge someone. In this case, a bad (obsolete) database entry in a county database resulted in the search of an individual's car, where drugs and a firearm were found. This resulted in a conviction and jail time, but the search itself wasn't constitutional, because the data was incorrect. The appeals court let the conviction stand, oddly arguing that throwing out the conviction wouldn't put much pressure on governments to keep their data clean. The court also argues that anyone convicted as a result of such bad data, should simply file a separate, civil, lawsuit against the government. Of course, it seems like the bigger issue should simply be on the constitutionality of using any unconstitutionally obtained evidence in a lawsuit.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: constitution, convictions, database errors, due process, supreme court
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No sympathy
A felon with meth and a revolver. Sorry I have very little sympathy for the guy.
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Re: No sympathy
What keeps the police from doing this? Maybe the threat that the case will get thrown out if they do.
Constitutional cases are almost always on the fringe. It doesn't matter if this guy had meth and a revolver, or a joint and a kitchen knife. Hell, maybe it was Rush Limbaugh with Oxycontin and an AK-47.
I think the cops always need to dot their i's and cross their t's. If they don't and bad guys get away, it's their own damn fault.
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Re: Re: No sympathy
That way you reduce the incentive for illegal searches, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water by letting an obviously guilty person go free.
HM
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Re: Re: Re: No sympathy
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Re: Re: No sympathy
As far as I am concerned, the officers did their due diligence. Mistakes happen, and I like the idea that the guy should sue the city/county/state for damages in a civil suit. In that, I think he should win. But, he is clearly guilty, and the bad data does not change the fact that he was a felon carrying drugs and a gun.
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Re: Re: Re: No sympathy
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Re: No sympathy
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Guilty?
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Re: Guilty?
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Re: Guilty?
You need to think outside this case. The constitution doesn't protect individuals. It protects societies.
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bad accident happens, bad guy unlucky
they got to him by accident, but the drugs and weapon i guess not... he knew the risk of having them on ... so I guess...
the rest is un-impotant, 1 bad guy off the streets a little..
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Who and what is irrelevant
The question being asked is can the government benefit by committing unconstitutional (illegal) acts? If the answer is yes then no citizen is safe from illegal government acts. As a citizen, I much prefer the occasional "bad guy" walking the streets than an entire government (feds, state and local)that can commit illegal acts with impunity.
I would suggest that the justice's serving on the appeals court should be investigated for possible impeachment.
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Re: Who and what is irrelevant
http://epic.org/privacy/herring/11c_071707.pdf
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Re: Re: Who and what is irrelevant
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legality
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Incentive
This means some bad guys get let go, but this is the price you pay to live in a free society.
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Trust the cops?
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No fun wen da rabbits gots da gunz..
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I have to go with....
Anyway, the Supreme Court's ruling in this case might have, depending on how they word things, some very important policy changes all around the country.
It's my hope though that they do rule this to be illegal and the person would be released immediately.
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Re: jake
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I have a record, from a long time ago, but one none the less. I went a long time with out a job because of it. While I put my life back together I still can't get a job better than part-time paying more than 50 cents above minimum wage. Even getting that took my mom calling in a favor. There are no job programs for felons who aren't bad enough to go to prison and only put on court supervision, yet a felony makes it so you can't get cash assistance and if you file for unemployment it will be denied and the appeal will be long and hard fought. Shit dose happen and just the accusation could cause one to get fired. Were it me the worst they would find would be a burned CD and a box cutter from work, but the rumor in a small town over getting pulled over and your property searched would be bad enough to cause trouble. Then what... my family would loose their home because of a "screw up"? The thing that is glossed over was that they were looking for a reason to pull him over because of his record if they found nothing what would have been next pulling him over and breaking a tail light as justification?
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Its Simple
Otherwise it would be legal to bust a guys house because "the computer said so" look for anything (or plant it) and toss the person in jail.
After reading the judge notes on the case I come to the exact other conclusion: Major harm is caused if the rule is not used because this becomes a loop hole in the system, a single case becomes justification later when it happens next time of why its legal for officers to search on bad information.
Of course I would rather see several guilty men go free then a free man go to jail.
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bad intel
this things happens all the times, most of the times police go out without finding nothing, and there are times they do...
i don't thing that this was police abuse, but just in case, if a warrant was issued for a search based on bad intel... human or machine, should be all the same (easier to correct the machine one), but the fact that the search did discovered illegal drugs and weapon, makes the case somehow stand...
anyway, how can a police officer know if it has bad intel or not until it gets checked (especial if it comes from a compute or a "trust" source)
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another exception
But that is pretty tough to show. First, you have to have an ongoing investigation that fairly covers the subject based upon the likelihood of illegal activity. You can't just start investigating just because the guy has a record or because he looks shady...
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constitutional conviction
--Glenn
((I was referring to the Bill of Rights.))
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Bad Evidence is Still Bad Evidence
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Come ON, people!
Are all of you completely out of your minds? I bet you also use the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about" mantra in response to the ridiculous invasion of privacy that goes on every day at security checkpoints across the country.
Do you want to live in a fascist nation? Refusing to uphold the principles of privacy and freedom because the persecuted are people that you don't like, don't care about, or hate (criminals or otherwise) is the road that Germany took when the Nazis were rising to power (yes, I just Godwin'd this discussion, deal with it.) If the German people had stood up to the Nazis and said "I may not like the group of people you're persecuting but I won't stand to see others' rights trampled" then history may have turned out very different.
Also the judge's opinion on the ruling is complete nonsense. He claims that forcing Coffee County (who got the invalid arrest warrant) to dismiss the case wouldn't punish Dale County (who sent the bad warrant) for their bad record keeping. The truth is, it would punish Dale County massively, straining their relationships with neighboring counties, tainting the reliability of their records, and the perception of the public on their elected officials.
Think about it. If you're forced to drop a case because your neighboring county police can't keep their data in order and sent you bad information, are you going to continue to rely on them or give them priority when they send requests for information to you?
If you become a county police dept that's known for having bad records, are your prosecutors going to be happy that you're undermining the credibility of the cases they are trying to build?
If you're a citizen in a county where the police are known to keep bad records, are you going to have faith that the officials you voted for the run the county are doing their jobs?
I'm honestly baffled at how the judge can't see the repercussions that Dale County would experience if he threw out an arrest the Coffee County made based on Dale County's bad records.
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Evidence From An Unconstitutional Search
It would also enforce and punish those who broke the law gathering it. The punishment should fit the "crime" and be serious enough to ensure that proper weight is given to individual rights.
Facts are facts! No criminal should escape because of an error or even a criminal collection of evidence. The illegal collection of evidence and the actual criminal action of how the evidence was collected should be treated as separate judgments.
Justice should be based on truth.
Mike k
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