More Problems With Redlight Cameras: Denver Not Looking At Required Data

from the oops dept

Fri, Jan 30th 2009 1:21am — Mike Masnick

With Arizona getting rid of its speed cameras, after realizing they did nothing to make the roads safer (and may, in fact, have done the opposite), now it's time to move on to red light cameras, which have a pretty troubling history themselves. The latest, as pointed out by Jeff Nolan, is that Denver has failed to enforce the contract it had concerning red light cameras. Specifically, part of the deal was that the contractor running the cameras would deliver data on whether or not the cameras were effective (including a potential refund of money if they were not). However, the contractor, Redflex Traffic Systems, apparently simply hasn't delivered the data. Actually, to be clear, they haven't delivered any data. It's not just that some data has been left out, but that none has been delivered.

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Filed Under: denver, red light cameras
Companies: redflex

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from the Conflict of interest Department, 30 Jan 2009 @ 3:47am

Specifically, part of the deal was that the contractor running the cameras would deliver data on whether or not the cameras were effective (including a potential refund of money if they were not).

i really wonder how come they didn't deliver the data, its probably in the mail as we speak.
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inc, 30 Jan 2009 @ 5:14am

Denver should ask for that refund
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ToySouljah, 30 Jan 2009 @ 5:17am

Re:
lmao...from what I've read about them causing even more accidents (making the roads even more unsafe), they would have had to refund the money. So, I bet that data somehow got wiped out in some critical system failure or fire :)

They could have also had a late night shredding party...you know Easter is coming up, and nothing makes better confetti than evidence...lol
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sajjon, 30 Jan 2009 @ 6:17am

Just tell us. Is it? or Isn't it?
I would be curious to hear the real data on these as they are popping up all over Alabama (annual top 5 for traffic deaths) in the hopes of reducing these numbers. If they are in fact increasing accidents this is vital information which should not be witheld, and if it is we are likely to see this matter wind up in criminal court precedings.
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Hoop, 30 Jan 2009 @ 6:50am

Did you ever notice
First it was radar guns. lots of studies telling us everything from the in-accuracy to the probability of testicular cancer. and then there was the breathalyzer, lots of people have challenged it reliability and recently they even tried to get it's manufacturer to release proprietary information. and now the dreaded red light cameras, not to mention DRM and copyright infringement.
Whenever we Americans get busted for breaking the law we try to have the law changed or at the very least discredit the tools used to bust us. I could see the possibility of, for a short time, the chance of rear-end collisions. Isn't this just "natural selection" and not some error with the device.
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shmengie, 30 Jan 2009 @ 6:51am

"With Arizona getting rid of its speed cameras, after realizing they did nothing to make the roads safer..."

i never thought these cameras were about safety. i figgered they were revenue generation units. yeah, maybe i am a *little* cynical...
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adam, 30 Jan 2009 @ 7:17am

Arizona has not yet removed the speed cameras. The full legislature still has not vote on it. Only the Transportation committee has voted to remove them. It should be voted on by the full House in early Feb or so.
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Jonesy, 30 Jan 2009 @ 7:33am

How about they just lengthen the time between when a light turns red and the next line turns green. This has been shown to reduce accidents and increase safety.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2009 @ 7:43am

tl;dr version
It's a slow news day, sup?
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Cipher-0, 30 Jan 2009 @ 8:00am

Re: Did you ever notice
Hoop, don't you think a requirement of a tool used to convict people of crimes should be demonstrably accurate?
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Clay, 30 Jan 2009 @ 9:05am

And it keeps coming...
Houston just had a scandal pop up recently as well...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/6237816.html
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James, 30 Jan 2009 @ 9:09am

Re: Did you ever notice
Did you ever notice that some people want law enforcement automated with no due process? Hmm.. probably the same idiots who thought Judge Dredd was a good movie.
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Joseph Durnal, 30 Jan 2009 @ 9:13am

They just don't bother me
Red light and speeding cameras don't bother me. I've received one ticket from a red light camera. I didn't realize that it was a no turn on red light. I don't often go where there are speeding cameras, but in my old age (LOL 31) I don't speed much anymore, so maybe I just don't notice.

There was a big debate on the local newspaper comments about a bad at grade highway intersection, where the left turn from north bound, crossing south bound is a little blind. Most agree that it wouldn't be a problem if cars were actually doing the speed limit, but 10 or 15 miles over the limit really increases the danger. A speeding camera with warning signs on the south bound side at that location would probably help. But some folks just think the intersection should be closed and folks should just find another way.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2009 @ 9:22am

Re: Did you ever notice
Yes Hoop, let us not question the great Authority, it is almighty and unflawed. We are but subjects to be ruled over...oh wait, we live America with the Constitution and Bill of Right. Government should bow to the citizen, not the other way around.
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Xiera, 30 Jan 2009 @ 10:36am

Re: Did you ever notice
The part that bothers me is that, unless you don't drive or don't pay attention while driving, it's obvious that people tailgate. Tailgating doesn't just put the tailgater at risk, but also the tailgatee (poetic license), who has very little say in whether they get tailgated. The problem with tailgating, obviously, is that if the first car has to stop suddenly (for example, you would normally try to make it through a yellow light but you see a camera at the intersection), there's little time and space for the second car to react.

Now, it's easy just to argue that people shouldn't be tailgating to begin with -- this is true. But people tailgate, it's a fact, however undesirable.

I think Jonesy's idea to have a prolonged wait after a red before giving someone else a green would be a good thing. Not sure I can think of any other solutions that are safe and effective.
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abaum, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:29pm

Looks like southern AZ is going to get cameras soon.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/01/30/20090130pimacams-ON.html
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2009 @ 3:58pm

Everyone makes such a big deal about running red lights, screaming how many people die because someone runs a red light. This is true of someone running a red light that has been red for several seconds, something that happens very rarely. If you make a habit of running red lights that haven't just changed, you won't live long anyway. I'd bet 99% of the redlight runners that these things catch are people who go through on yellow, and it turns red when they are half way though, these guys are rude, but don't put anyones life at risk.
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batch, 30 Jan 2009 @ 4:27pm

I live in Denver...
I don't know what they're talking about "4 cameras" they're all over the place. My mailing address is Denver and there are cameras just south of my apartment, but not listed in the article.

The police or someone else likes to change the timing on the left turn lights at Belleview and Quebec, especially during the lunch hour. Some days, the yellow light is non-existant allowing at most 4 cars (2 in each lane), to turn left before turning red, out of 12+ cars which are overflowing and blocking thru traffic. Other days, all the cars (still overflowing) get through the light before the nazi camera starts strobe-lighting everyone, especially those who had entered the intersection during a yellow or green turned yellow signal.

All the time people have stopped short out of fear of a ticket from the camera system. Its really fun, having to slam on the brakes because all of a sudden, that green light is red, barely a flicker of yellow. I enjoy having to replace my brakes more often. Warped rotors are cool.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2009 @ 6:09pm

Re: They just don't bother me
Would it bother you if you received a ticket for exceeding the speed limit by two hundred miles per hour ?
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Gene Cavanaugh, 31 Jan 2009 @ 1:32pm

Red light cameras and the like
Any tool is good or bad depending on how it is used, not on the idea that it is "inherently" good or bad.
This is like "pegging" on whether video games are good or bad; they can be either. We need to look at how they are used, or what the overall effect is, not gross out over the tool itself.
Pegging on an extreme position (short term) will win support from the public; long term it is a form of misinformation and will be treated as such.
Of course, Rush Limbaugh has proven that there is a large number of extremists who will always support extreme positions, no matter how ridiculous. At the same time, Rush Limbaugh is permanently in the extremist camp!
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