Directors Admit They 'Steal' Ideas... But Most People Recognize That As Inspiration
from the what's-the-real-difference? dept
Jon Lawrence points us to an article in Variety where a bunch of movie directors admit that they often look to other movies for ideas to "steal" in making their own movies. Of course, they don't really mean "steal." They mean that they use the ideas of others for inspiration and to build off of in creating their own films. Yet, these days, when there's been an ongoing push to make people think they can own ideas and concepts, that line between good ("inspiration") and bad ("stealing") seems to keep getting pushed further and further back, for no good reason at all. If people recognized that there's no real line at all, and being inspired by someone else to copy them is actually a great jumping off point for new art, we'd have a lot fewer silly lawsuits. I'm reminded of a passage in James Boyle's The Public Domain where he quotes Ray Charles on copying other musicians:I knew back then that Nat Cole was bigger than ever. Whites could relate to him because he dealt with material they understood, and he did so with great feeling. Funny thing, but during all these years I was imitating Nat Cole, I never thought twice about it, never felt bad about copying the cat's licks. To me it was practically a science. I worked at it, I enjoyed it, I was proud of it, and I loved doing it. He was a guy everyone admired, and it just made sense to me, musical and commercial sense, to study his technique. It was something like when a young lawyer--just out of school--respects an older lawyer. He tries to get inside his mind, he studies to see how he writes up all his cases, and he's going to sound a whole lot like the older man--at least till he figures out how to get his own shit together. Today I hear some singers who I think sound like me. Joe Cocker, for instance. Man, I know that cat must sleep with my records. But I don't mind. I'm flattered; I understand. After all, I did the same thing.Yet, these days, if you sound too much like someone else, you get sued.
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Filed Under: copying, film, inspiration, music
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Here's an example, no matter how original you think a movie may be, movies are merely recorded plays which are acted stories like books, which are mere stories, which have been around as long as we could speak.
And a good example of musicians borrowing is the Velvet Underground. REM, Gun Club, and Jesus Mary Chain all loved VU and used such influences in their music. However, each band sounds completely different from the other.
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granted most things ripped of Gilgamesh, but I think it was pretty original.
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Thinking about it, the first story ever told was probably intended as a lie. My guess is that some hunter came back empty handed after a hunt and came up with a story about the "big one that got away."
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Idea stealing
I'll bet the idea of an idea being stolen will cross your mind then.
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Re: Idea stealing
What if the guy standing next to you accused you of "stealing" his air by breathing. That makes no sense. You'd think he was crazy. I think the same thing of anyone who thinks ideas can be stolen or owned.
And I'll offer my challenge to you. Name one completely original idea deserving of ownership.
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Re: Re: Idea stealing
Before you write it completely, I write and publish it.
What do you say about it? And if you complain or sue should I retort "But you can't steal an idea, you aren't deprived of the idea."
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And just to make this clear, the idea of a kid with magical powers is not owned by anyone, including JK Rowling.
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Re: Re: Re: Idea stealing
Credit for an idea can be owned?! First, give me one, yes, only one example of an original credit that should be owned.
Third, if the guy standing next to you takes credit for the air you're breathing, because he just farted it out, do you pay him for his credit?
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Intellectual Property
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Re: Intellectual Property
No. And apparently, you have a complete misunderstanding of what I wrote and IP law.
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Idea Stealing
There are dozens of stories over the years of boys as magicians, and therefore the "idea' of a boy wizard as a copyrightable thing is ridiculous.
Now, JK Rowling is an excellent writer, and it's not so much her idea, but the (and this is *important*) the execution of her idea and the characters within it that make it a unique and copyrightable work.
We need to get this through our thick heads, there ARE NO ORIGINAL STORIES in the world.
Indeed, if you study writing, you can boil down every story ever told to one of three archetypes (ideas!).
1. Man vs. Man
2. Man vs. Himself
3. Man vs. Nature
There are infinite variations on these ideas, but that's it. So if we take copyright protection as it's going, to it's natural end, and I copyright all stories that are "one guy vs. another guy," then I own that idea, and the rest of you owe me trillions of dollars.
But that's ridiculous, and it deprives society of the very "progress of the arts" that copyright was designed with in mind in the first place.
And to your last issue of semantics - words are not just words, words have meanings. The meanings are different. Ideas and credit are completely different. There are lines in the sand (courts) where I can copy the story of a young wizard, with a different name, place, and characters and that's totally legal. What I can't copy are the details. Harry Potter. Hagrid, Hogwarts, and the whole ilk of the details. Those all belong to Ms. Rowling.
And of course, someone else trying to take credit for an idea, unless the idea was divulged in such details as make it into the final creative work, and can be substantiated in a court, is silly as well.
Ideas, as general ideas can be taken, SHOULD be taken and used. Everyone will use them differently and therein lies the artistic genius.
On the other hand, I also speak with a lot of producers who think that our professional association (the Producers Guild of America) should be fighting tooth and nail to put DRM on every single thing producers put out (a different story... but I'll digress for a moment).
How sad it is that an industry that prides itself on being "creative" can be creative enough to reinvent itself. They're not worried about protecting creativity, they're worried about protecting out-sized paychecks. Period.
IDEAS are not copyrightable. They should not be protectable unless they meet a certain level of detail - and that's where the courts come in.
That's a tough bar to figure out where to set, and as a content creator myself, I'm not even sure where to set it, my peers all have different ideas of where to set it. Many want to make as much $$ as they can off of doing as little as possible. A few actually want to work and create new things all the time and are flattered when someone else "rips them off" (and let's be honest, it's not like someone "rippping me off" has the same dialog, same actors, same character names, same setting, etc.).
Again, take it back to those three ideas (archetypes) above. There are no original ideas, there are only new interpretations of old ideas, and those interpretations and executions are where the art (and copyright), lies.
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Re: Idea Stealing
So a movie about robots attacking earth would be man versus man, because man invented and created the robots, or man versus nature, because the robots would be made out of iron and other metals? ;-)
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Technical conundrum - still an archetype;)
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Jefferson on IP in 1813
Considering the exclusive right to invention as given not of natural right, but for the benefit of society, I know well the difficulty of drawing a line between the things which are worth to the public the embarrassment of an exclusive patent, and those which are not. As a member of the patent board for several years, while the law authorized a board to grant or refuse patents, I saw with what slow progress a system of general rules could be matured.
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Copyright pertains solely to how an idea is expressed, and patents pertain solely to embodiments of an idea.
As the quote from Jefferson notes above, it is not an easy line to draw...but the rule is clear. An idea? No protection as noted above.
For those who may wish to pull their hair out over the idea of "ideas" receiving protection under the law, I suggest they read Professor Arthur Miller's article "COMMON LAW PROTECTION FOR PRODUCTS OF THE MIND: AN "IDEA" WHOSE TIME HAS COME", 119 Harv. L. Rev. 703 (2006). It is an outstanding article that transcends much more than just state common law protection for "ideas". His insight into patent law as now constituted is quite interesting, and particularly the part concerning what in law is known as "preemption. As one reads this part it is useful to keep in the back of the mind what his article means with respect to things like business method (e.g., In re Comiskey) and software patents (e.g., In re Bilski). He interjects a twist in the discussion that few, if any, have recognized as a possible consequence of these recent court decisions.
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lock them up
Wait, its not? People have been influenced in their creations by others that came before them for centuries you say? Sorry, that kind of thinking went out with the 20th century. The 21st century is all about enforcement of rights to the exclusion of prior art, common sense, or even the original intent of the law. In this new paradigm, even the concept and idea is enforceable.
Isnt it interesting (and by "interesting", I mean "bullshit") to note how, when its big-content admitting "stealing" ideas from other movies, well, thats ok. But when someone else does it (i.e. not the elite/rich) then WOAH THERE! YOU NEED TO BE SUED!
In the 21st century America, only greedy hypocrites rule the land.
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Copyright and IP
The Congress shall have Power ... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries
(United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8)
Thus the whole point of copyright is to promote the dissemination of ideas. The theory being that if people have (for a limited time) absolute control over, and the right to exploit, their ideas, they will publish them so that others can take them up and run with them.
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Does this remind you of John Fogerty
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Plagerism equals original if content falls in head
If you watch the movie Troll, the main characters name is in fact Harry potter. While this in itself mean nothing if you pay more attention to Eunice St. Clair she is actually dressed in a manner consistant with the older teachers of Hogwarts. One picture on her wall looks just as Hagrid with less hair. Now here is the thing on this. She wrote a book a non-picture book. So any resemblance here would be with the art director of the movies. However the underlying story is relatively the same except Deatheaters=Dark Fairies and Muggles well are still muggles just under a different name. Big evil nasty wants to have non magic users killed out so there ideals will become law, but this has been used time after time.
The main problem with rowling is she will not give credit to anyone and all ideas are her own with no inspiration. I find it hard to believe she cannot say that she was inspired by one of the multitude of fantasy movies/books in circlation. She is a plagerist just as Disney plagerised Hamlet to write Lion King. The problem is she is to proud and mighty just as Disney(not walt but the company) to just giving credit were it is do.
By the way it looks like an injuction is in process to stop the rerelease of troll. Do to the name Harry Potter being used even though this is a remake and would be the same name used in the original 80's movie. She is also suing an indian based movie with the name Hari Putar.
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